Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..
- Thread starter byjove
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Sir Andrew Wiles IQ 170 has Pisces Mercury 
Going home from school aged 10, Wiles read Fermat's Last Theorem at his local library and decided to be first to prove it. 1986 he heard Ribet (by proving Serre's ε-conjecture) had established link between Fermat's Last Theorem and Taniyama-Shimura conjecture – based on success of Gerhard Frey, Jean-Pierre Serre and Ken Ribet - Wiles in 1993 presented proof publicly at Cambridge conference: but discovered August 1993 that proof was incomplete and he'd made fundamental errors. Wiles claimed he realised a solution on 19 September 1994 – then with former student Richard Taylor, he published a second paper circumventing the gap and completed the proof.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiles's_proof_of_Fermat's_Last_Theorem
Going home from school aged 10, Wiles read Fermat's Last Theorem at his local library and decided to be first to prove it. 1986 he heard Ribet (by proving Serre's ε-conjecture) had established link between Fermat's Last Theorem and Taniyama-Shimura conjecture – based on success of Gerhard Frey, Jean-Pierre Serre and Ken Ribet - Wiles in 1993 presented proof publicly at Cambridge conference: but discovered August 1993 that proof was incomplete and he'd made fundamental errors. Wiles claimed he realised a solution on 19 September 1994 – then with former student Richard Taylor, he published a second paper circumventing the gap and completed the proof.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiles's_proof_of_Fermat's_Last_Theorem
byjove
Account Closed
Two years later and my "will add more soon" has been finished! I've updated my proposition in my first post. I particularly refer to common misunderstandings with this native position and also approach in education and also talents.
Critical point: have many of the misunderstandings with this position come with the modern ruler Neptune? Does traditional astrology hold this position as so unfortunate? (using the greater benific as the M in P ruler).
Critical point: have many of the misunderstandings with this position come with the modern ruler Neptune? Does traditional astrology hold this position as so unfortunate? (using the greater benific as the M in P ruler).
byjove
Account Closed
Sir Andrew Wiles IQ 170 has Pisces Mercury
Going home from school aged 10, Wiles read Fermat's Last Theorem at his local library and decided to be first to prove it. 1986 he heard Ribet (by proving Serre's ε-conjecture) had established link between Fermat's Last Theorem and Taniyama-Shimura conjecture – based on success of Gerhard Frey, Jean-Pierre Serre and Ken Ribet - Wiles in 1993 presented proof publicly at Cambridge conference: but discovered August 1993 that proof was incomplete and he'd made fundamental errors. Wiles claimed he realised a solution on 19 September 1994 – then with former student Richard Taylor, he published a second paper circumventing the gap and completed the proof.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiles's_proof_of_Fermat's_Last_Theorem
That sounds like precisely the kind of mistakes that I make too. This is exactly why I keep away from accounting and even maths. Teachers/professors always said it - I clearly knew what to do, I understood, but I could become distracted or my mind could wander a little then the mistakes happen.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Remember though that the proof was completed!
Einstein - another Pisces Mercury - failed his University Entrance Exam
"....In 1895, at the age of 17, Albert Einstein applied for early admission into the Swiss Federal Polytechnical School (Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule or ETH).
Einstein passed the math and science sections of the entrance exam, but failed the rest (history, languages, geography, etc.)! Einstein had to go to a trade school before he retook the exam and was finally admitted to ETH a year later. (Source)....."
byjove
Account Closed
Thanks for the insights Jupiter, each of those pieces have a part to play in a refresh of approach to this natal position I think. Any pieces like that which cast away the unwarranted negativity is needed I think.
Another thing for M in P natives to think about is dignity. Mutual receptions, angles and a lesser known one is a planet in detriment accompanied by a planet in the same sign and of it's exaltation, is recovered significantly I believe. One of the other simpler notions of help is of course 'beneficial' aspects, not just trines and sextiles but even contact with malefics could help - consider a sturdy Mercury/Saturn square to ground that M in P, or Uranus square to speed up the mind, a sextile with Venus could be charming or with the Sun or Mars would immediately aid communicative abilities.
Another thing for M in P natives to think about is dignity. Mutual receptions, angles and a lesser known one is a planet in detriment accompanied by a planet in the same sign and of it's exaltation, is recovered significantly I believe. One of the other simpler notions of help is of course 'beneficial' aspects, not just trines and sextiles but even contact with malefics could help - consider a sturdy Mercury/Saturn square to ground that M in P, or Uranus square to speed up the mind, a sextile with Venus could be charming or with the Sun or Mars would immediately aid communicative abilities.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
byjove - correction - Albert Einstein's Mercury is SIDEREAL PISCES and TROPICAL ARIES!!
re: detriment and other debilities/dignities, this table from skyscript lists them all
btw - fixed star aspects to natal Mercury could bring important additional insights
Robson (The Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology) says:
"The fixed stars operate by position and are said to 'cast no rays' or, in other words, their aspects are said to be ineffective and their influence to be exerted only by conjunction and parallel" http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Stars_in_longitude_order.htm
byjove
Account Closed
I completely agree. This is what I don't understand - when do you hear a native with the Sun or Mars in Libra having to automatically justify their general capabilities, just for some basic respect? Therefore, I don't understand the negativity lobbied on these natives.
One doesn't have to go far, take a peak at almost any thread on Mercury in Pisces here and it's littered with other natives laughing at how 'misguided and foggy' natives are, it's really sad.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
well, In astrology having such signs in certain planets, isn't necessarily bad, but it's not good either, I guess it gives off a weaker expression than if a sign in planet and that sign becomes exalted. The exalted position for a sign doesn't mean it's better than other signs, it's in a better position, but it's expressed differently.
But i understand what you're saying, because there's sun in libra people that do fine without needing a partnership... as well as people with Merc in Pisces that are intelligence and are quick as a merc in gemini
but i think that it all depends on the aspects attached to Mercury and the house that it's in, that really makes all the difference.
Abraham Lincoln - Mercury - Tropical Pisces
Wow, Abraham has 5 signs in detriment and he became the first president of United States...
The sun in Aqua makes sense, since he was apart of a collective, that served the detriment for his sun sign...
So... If somebody that influential has so many signs in detriment then any of us has like 2 or 3 signs in detriment doesn't have to worry,
since signs in detriment shouldn't be regarded as much trouble..
Have you came across chart that has no signs in detriment? s
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
tsmall
Premium Member
If you read the wiki notes, the chart posted has a "B" rating based on a midwife's recollection of a birth time of "about sunrise." However, two astrologers independently and in different years rectified the chart to 8:36 am. Here is the rectified chart in whole signs.
Either way, notice that Mercury is in Pisces, but so is Jupiter? This supports Mercury to some extent. Further, I don't think that Mercury in Pisces means can't think, so much as the thinking may tend to appear less organized to those on the outside looking in. Intuition plays a large part. This is a day chart, so the heat of the Sun will help with organization of thought.
Detriment, or any form of debility, is more a statement of how those planets will be able to affect the affairs of the houses they rule. Mercury in the rectified chart rules the 3rd (lower education, for one, and didn't Lincoln get no formal schooling in youth?) as well as the 6th house of illness. My understanding is that he suffered from extreme migraine, though I could be misremembering.
Another interesting thing in the rectified chart (off topic, by hey
) is that Mars, the out of sect malefic, is in the 7th house of open enemies and rules the 8th. Paulus says of Mars in the 7th "...those who are short lived or die a violent death...)
Either way, notice that Mercury is in Pisces, but so is Jupiter? This supports Mercury to some extent. Further, I don't think that Mercury in Pisces means can't think, so much as the thinking may tend to appear less organized to those on the outside looking in. Intuition plays a large part. This is a day chart, so the heat of the Sun will help with organization of thought.
Detriment, or any form of debility, is more a statement of how those planets will be able to affect the affairs of the houses they rule. Mercury in the rectified chart rules the 3rd (lower education, for one, and didn't Lincoln get no formal schooling in youth?) as well as the 6th house of illness. My understanding is that he suffered from extreme migraine, though I could be misremembering.
Another interesting thing in the rectified chart (off topic, by hey
) is that Mars, the out of sect malefic, is in the 7th house of open enemies and rules the 8th. Paulus says of Mars in the 7th "...those who are short lived or die a violent death...)Attachments
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
This chart is a great example of the importance of certainty regarding time of birth because the difference between a day chart and a night chart could be crucial in this case
- 'about sunrise' is not sufficiently accurate a description with which to provide reliable data
- Sidereally, Abraham is possibly a Capricorn ascendant
Claire19
Well-known member
You had probably a contact with Saturn if you were logical in that way.
You can be creative with numbers for instance and envisage colours or other ways of making it less dry.
byjove
Account Closed
That gives me an idea, if we are to remove some of the ungrounded negative attachments, it might be an idea to accept what is difficult. Focus - and attention are exactly two things which I personally could attest to. I once read that this native needs to focus carefully on a task at hand in order to do it properly and also not to injure oneself, if it's such a task. I totally agree. I sometimes pull back my mind from expanding like a mist.
Another curious reference to this placement that I've read is being the unsuspecting victim in others' plans, as if we have trouble telling friend from foe. My dad also has Mercury in Pisces, and I note that we both are naturally set to see the best in people. We certainly can ignore the more unpleasant characteristics. That again - needs attention I think.
Can anyone relate to this? Maybe some people without this placement knows a native that they might comment on?
Another curious reference to this placement that I've read is being the unsuspecting victim in others' plans, as if we have trouble telling friend from foe. My dad also has Mercury in Pisces, and I note that we both are naturally set to see the best in people. We certainly can ignore the more unpleasant characteristics. That again - needs attention I think.
Can anyone relate to this? Maybe some people without this placement knows a native that they might comment on?
appleberry
Well-known member
@byjove
Great thread and i think you hit the nail on the head with your first post. Still reading the rest. I'm Mercury at 6 degrees Pisces and your interpretation describes me well. (Also have Jupiter conjunct at 4 degrees Pisces)
Agree especially with:
- a lack of aggressiveness or desire to dominate or destroy automatically indicates a lesser intelligence. (So accurate of me and overpowerss my moon and sun in Aries)
- The native may or may not be able to channel those dreams, or know how to.
- If we're trapped in places (literal, mental etc.) that don't complement our abilities, we will surely come across as deluded and impractical.
- The perception that this position creates an 'unintelligent' native.... is totally unwarranted, and astrologers who have done their research know this perception comes from a lack of understanding.
- her original words: "you sit down and listen, and you absorb...as if...by osmosis or something and I think that the education system fails learners like you". (I actually graduated from a gifted program and did most of my later education by correspondence or rapid learning programs. Ultimately, I learn very quickly, very well, but prefer and do better learning on my own.)
- With Mercury, we talk of the voice but also of motion - a physical reaction to the sound of music -dancing. (I'm an artist involving both sound and movement... But talented at everything artistic... Vocally, as well... )
One thing that isn't me but may be because of Pluto conjunct Ac or something else... I don't always see the best in people. I often see the worst, bring out the worst and never completely trust people...
Great thread and i think you hit the nail on the head with your first post. Still reading the rest. I'm Mercury at 6 degrees Pisces and your interpretation describes me well. (Also have Jupiter conjunct at 4 degrees Pisces)
Agree especially with:
- a lack of aggressiveness or desire to dominate or destroy automatically indicates a lesser intelligence. (So accurate of me and overpowerss my moon and sun in Aries)
- The native may or may not be able to channel those dreams, or know how to.
- If we're trapped in places (literal, mental etc.) that don't complement our abilities, we will surely come across as deluded and impractical.
- The perception that this position creates an 'unintelligent' native.... is totally unwarranted, and astrologers who have done their research know this perception comes from a lack of understanding.
- her original words: "you sit down and listen, and you absorb...as if...by osmosis or something and I think that the education system fails learners like you". (I actually graduated from a gifted program and did most of my later education by correspondence or rapid learning programs. Ultimately, I learn very quickly, very well, but prefer and do better learning on my own.)
- With Mercury, we talk of the voice but also of motion - a physical reaction to the sound of music -dancing. (I'm an artist involving both sound and movement... But talented at everything artistic... Vocally, as well... )
One thing that isn't me but may be because of Pluto conjunct Ac or something else... I don't always see the best in people. I often see the worst, bring out the worst and never completely trust people...
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Mercury is described as 'the trickster' and is ambivalent in being NEITHER male NOR female ALSO Mercury's influence varies depending upon its placement
i.e. - Source: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/mercury_att.html
"....if Mercury is in conjunction with a masculine planet, Mercury becomes masculine; if with a feminine, then feminine. By its own nature Mercury is cold and dry, and therefore melancholic.
Mercury is adaptable:
....its influence is beneficial when associated with good planets, malefic when associated with bad planets.
....Mercury is the author of subtlety, tricks, devices, and perjury...."
Therefore Mercury in Pisces is influenced by planets conjunct as well as by planets in aspect and morphs continually
CosmicBlyss
Active member
talking is so 20th century......
telepathy is the way to go.
Hear, hear!! Sometimes I wish I could just take an adapter and plug one end of it into my forehead and the other into someone's else and just upload the information directly!
Forget this formulated verbal translation stuff! 
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