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  #1  
Unread 11-26-2005, 01:53 AM
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Karmic, Evolutionary and soul astrology

Okay, this has been rolling around in my mind for some time and I guess this is time to address it.

As I continue to develop my own astrological language and interpretive style, I find myself struggling with the concepts of Karmic, Evolutionary and Soul-centered astrology as taught by some of their practitioners.

:shock: :shock: BEWARE! Heretical things are about to be said. Read on at your own discretion.

Now I do believe in karma, the law of cause and effect and that sometimes it may take a lifetime or two for the effect to manifest. I also believe in the fact that the soul creates an energetic pattern when it manifests the birthchart to evolve experiential energy back to the Creative Source of All Being. I also believe that the soul uses the birthchart to manifest the unique gift it is here to give the planet in this lifetime, if its presentational self allows the soul to do this. What is not completed of the soul's work in this lifetime will manifest in another lifetime.

What I do not believe is that Pluto is the soul and its relationship to the lunar nodes and its polarity point tells us the story of the soul.

I also do not believe in some of the Esoteric Astrology principles in Soul-centered astrology because, after reading some of Alice Bailey's and Madam Blatvatsky's works, I do not believe that the Creative Source has created and Esoteric-Metaphysical Darwinism where only the members of a specified group will actually be able to ascend to the next phase of man's evolution.

However, I do feel that I am an evolutionary, soul-centered astrologer that has a keen eye on the effects the choices that people make can have.

I am in a quandry and lost and I am not sure how to resolve this. I guess that Merc/Pluto conjunction in Virgo in the 9th wants to find where I fit in (not to mention my Leo Sun—I don't think my Sag rising gives a rat's a** about it).

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Unread 11-28-2005, 05:53 AM
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Re: Karmic, Evolutionary and soul astrology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elianah
Okay, this has been rolling around in my mind for some time and I guess this is time to address it.

As I continue to develop my own astrological language and interpretive style, I find myself struggling with the concepts of Karmic, Evolutionary and Soul-centered astrology as taught by some of their practitioners.

:shock: :shock: BEWARE! Heretical things are about to be said. Read on at your own discretion.

What I do not believe is that Pluto is the soul and its relationship to the lunar nodes and its polarity point tells us the story of the soul.

I also do not believe in some of the Esoteric Astrology principles in Soul-centered astrology because, after reading some of Alice Bailey's and Madam Blatvatsky's works, I do not believe that the Creative Source has created and Esoteric-Metaphysical Darwinism where only the members of a specified group will actually be able to ascend to the next phase of man's evolution.

However, I do feel that I am an evolutionary, soul-centered astrologer that has a keen eye on the effects the choices that people make can have.

I am in a quandry and lost and I am not sure how to resolve this. I guess that Merc/Pluto conjunction in Virgo in the 9th wants to find where I fit in (not to mention my Leo Sun—I don't think my Sag rising gives a rat's a** about it).
I like whatever's happened recently to you Elianah! Or maybe it's me!?!

Boy I wish I knew more about the differences between -

"Karmic" astrology
"Evolutionary" astrology
"Soul Centered" astrology

but I don't so I'll just roll with this because it's so interesting.

I've never heard that "....pluto is the soul and its relationship to the lunar nodes and its polarity point tells us the story of the soul." and it dosen't ring true with me either. I don't think any one planet represents our "SOULS" but that's just me. I'm reminded of a special teaching from the very wise old man that I took astrology classes from in the mid 1970s. He only taught how to erect charts and refused to teach about chart interpretation, which I think was profoundly wise of him. Anyway one day I approached him with my newly drawn up natal chart and asked him where THE most important point in the whole chart was. He said nothing but tapped the exact center of the chart where NOTHING is! Nice huh? He was a gem.....

"....I do not believe that the Creative Source has created and Esoteric-Metaphysical Darwinism where only the members of a specified group will actually be able to ascend to the next phase of man's evolution." Again I haven't read much of H.P.B.'s or Bailey's stuff about this even though I was raised (from age five to eighteen) with Theosophy (3rd generation) and many of her books are staring at me from across the room now! Sigh..... And I'm not certain that I totally understand what you're saying so I'm possibly on dangerous ground here. :shock:

This subject keeps coming up again and again in different non Astrological websites I visit, on different threads at them, and it's a very touchy subject with a lot of people!!! But that makes sense to me because I've been on the other side of this strange setting all my life, taken a ton of **** because of it, and it only now is coming out into the 'Light' once again. In other words I feel like I've lived all my life with this burden but only recently is it being openly discussed or rather hotly argued about now. About this 'Ascension' business as I understand it.....

The words from a Paul Simon song waft through my brain singing.... "One man's ceiling is another man's floor....." and that pretty much sums the whole messy business up! All of humanity is not currently at the exact same evolutionary level. It's never been hence the wide variety of problems, beliefs, abilities, development etc. etc. Let me quickly add that this is IMO, perfectly natural and the way it is.

On another thread we were talking about this same issue I think but in a more round about way through the major transits and how some people get the most out of them and how other people don't! For numerous reasons they simply will not deal with certain things (usually Saturn!!!) but keep on 'keepin' on' regardless like the walking dead in many cases! Right at that point there's a huge schism between groups of souls living side by side on the planet at the same time.

Add to that the other group of souls who do their personal 'work' through the same transits and face their personal demons, fears and transmute what must be transmuted before they can move on to the next phase or level. Now do this same thing over many incarnations with both of these groups of people and after awhile the imbalances become really miserable for all concerned! Only some of the souls who've done the work (I know you know what I mean by that so I won't elaborate) and increased their vibratory rate fast and high enough to be able to NOT be destroyed by moving into the next finer plane, will. The one's who haven't as yet will not move on yet but remain where they can continue working on exactly what they need to.

So......is one group better than the other group? Of course not but many get their panties in a twist over this which I find really ridiculous!!! We don't look down our noses at the people in grade 4 if we're in grade 2 or grade 12. Its just the way it is.

I'm afraid that I just vented things here that should have been said at many of those other sites I mentioned! But it wouldn't have done much good if I had. It will here.
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Unread 11-28-2005, 03:09 PM
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"What I do not believe is that Pluto is the soul and its relationship to the lunar nodes and its polarity point tells us the story of the soul. "

I imagine you're referring to Jeffrey Wolfe Green's work Elianah? I actually had Jeffrey do my chart several years ago and was not impressed with his interpretive skills. I did like his work with Pluto and the nodes but do not feel it gives the full multi-dimensional picture of the soul either. I think the work does point to incarnational issues chosen for further soul development however.

In terms of ascending, I am reminded of the saying "Those who would be first will be last". Those who have done the work to allow a higher vibrational fequency will be able to realize the benefits. Those who weigh themselves down with dualistic thinking and closed hearts will suffer the effects of dis-ease.

The other saying that comes to mind though is "A part cannot be where the whole is not". I read this as meaning we are one being collectively. If some ascend - all must ascend though the lift is relative. In quantum physics this is the butterfly effect in action.
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Unread 11-29-2005, 02:42 AM
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Yes, I was speaking about JWG's work with Pluto. And I do agree that it does point towards some incarnational issues but in the direction of transforming and transmuting them. I think that all the planetary nodes speak to what we are bringing from the past and the direction we need to be heading for in the future to perform our soul's work in this lifetime. The planets, for me, represent this moment of time. All need to be worked with in order to get the clearest picture of why the soul chose to be a part of this time period and what it is hoping to do in order to evolve experential energy back up to the Creative Source of All Being. I know that sounds totally un-Jewish but it makes complete sense to me.

As for Theosophy, it may have been part and parcel the teacher who I took an Ancient Wisdom class from, who based it on theosophical teachings. One of the things she taught was about the root races and how only the Arians, who would be the most evolved, would move into the evolutionary state for humans. Certain root races would be finally obliterated, including the root race that the Jews came from. She also said that Hitler was an Avatar and should be looked upon as someone who was willing to take on a nasty job but would improve the Arian stock. When I read Alice Bailey's Esoteric Astrology (because my Polarity Therapy practitioner wanted to introduce me to the concepts of the 7 rays and he knew that I was interested in astrology) I was dismayed by the amount of prejudicial views there were in it, not only about Jews but also other non-Arian root race humans. I realize that it was very much part of that particular generation and before, but if this teacher, and others like her, is propagating these teachings now, I fear for Soul-based astrology that is based on these teachings.

Quote:
All of humanity is not currently at the exact same evolutionary level. It's never been hence the wide variety of problems, beliefs, abilities, development etc. etc. Let me quickly add that this is IMO, perfectly natural and the way it is.
I would also add that within a person, all the subpersonalities may not be at the exact same evolutionary level. For example, in JWG's work, once you cross over into another evolutionary level, that's it, you have completed all the work from all the other evolutionary states. What I have noticed for myself that even if I am at the first level of the spirituated state, there are times that individuate and consensus state thoughts and emotions pop up--and I think to myself "where the f**k did that come from:!::?:. I am an integration of all my learning, socialization, ancestral patterning, etc. and it is an on-going process to purge out the lower spiritual, thought, physical and emotional forms. It is the way we finally release those energies and replace them with higher vibrational energies that raise us up. Denying that we still have those lower frequencies and not clearing them out holds not only us back but those around us.

Quote:
I'm afraid that I just vented things here that should have been said at many of those other sites I mentioned! But it wouldn't have done much good if I had. It will here.
Don't worry, I just vented too instead of venting at the Evolutionary Astrology website I used to post on because it would have fallen on deaf ears. Besides I don't believe that JWG or Maurice walk on water, which seems to be a pre-req of the site. ::SIGH::

And yet, life still trudges on, not giving one whit what we say.
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Unread 11-29-2005, 03:52 AM
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Elianah said "All need to be worked with in order to get the clearest picture of why the soul chose to be a part of this time period and what it is hoping to do in order to evolve experential energy back up to the Creative Source of All Being. I know that sounds totally un-Jewish but it makes complete sense to me. "

Not sure how that sounds un-Jewish unless you mean from a conventional view of God sitting on a throne divorced from us peons. There is a stream of Kabbalistic thinking (and always has been) that we are to develop our divine nature so we can straddle the worlds of God and Man. The Son concept is not the exclusive domain of Christianity. It's just not publicized very much in the Jewish community nor for the most part discussed outside of esoteric circles which is a good lead into a Theosophy discussion.

I've read several books by Rudolf Steiner regarding the root races and such you mention. I resonate with the graduated removal from our sense of AllThatIs or the source of all being and see the period of the Romans as the most solidified and weighed down period as we've fallen within the 3D existance. The birth of the Son conciousness at this point has indeed allowed us to lighten our load and begin to reconnect with the source. All of this is of course distorted within the mythology that took form but that's a whole other discussion.

I wholeheartedly agree with your assesment regarding the idealization of the Aryan race and the minimization/marginalization of the Jewish people within this movement. Hitler may have been an Avatar but he was of the negative ray and represented everything dark that needed to be brought into collective awareness so the shadow would fall no more on one particular group of people. The Aryan/Jewish polarity still seeks resolution/integration so that we all see that we are both and one.
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Unread 11-29-2005, 12:11 PM
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I can see how tired I was last night... I really do know how to spell Aryan, I promise.

And remember, I am the person who spent 3.5 years at the Jewish Theological Seminary and 4.5 years at Hebrew Union College. So everything I learned at those two institutions screams " NO :!: NO :!: NO :!: " about what I am saying.

Next Jewish heresy: I think the jury is still out on whether the Creative Source of All Being is all-knowing, all-powerful, and ever-present. I do believe, however, that the C-SOAB is not all-experiencing. That is why every life form (including the Gaia force in all planets) in the universe exists, to involve the C-SOAB's energy into the physical to gain experience and then to evolve it back up to C-SOAB. This means that the C-SOAB can grow and change, which I think the C-SOAB does.

Is this going to get me thrown into herem and become like Spinoza?

Anyway, astrology shows us the particular energetic experience that the C-SOAB needs from us and the transits and progressions show us how we are working to evolve that experiential energy back to the C-SOAB. That is why every person (not to forget other living things and the planet) is important, no matter their religion, ethnic background, socio-economic level, belief system, etc. Each person reflects one form of experience that the C-SOAB is wanting to gather and have returned to it. To say then that any one person is worthless, in my thinking, is saying that the C-SOAB is worthless because the experience would have no meaning. And obviously the C-SOAB would not create an experience that would have no meaning to it or else it would stop growing and changing. It reminds me of that verse from Exodus where God tells Moses: I am what I am. The actual Hebrew translates out to "I will be who I will be." Quite a different slant, if you ask me. The C-SOAB can't be who it will be if parts of it are considered worthless.

My 2¢ worth. Your mileage may vary.
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Unread 11-29-2005, 01:50 PM
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Elianah - I think you should check out the Jewish Renewal Movement if you haven't already. Hypenated Jews are welcome e.g. Buddhist-Jew, New Age- Jew, Kabbalah-Jew, etc.

Your take on our purpose is very Luria/Seth like. I share a similar view - God seeks to know itself. That's the macro view. The micro view is that we seek to know ourselves as well through our experience.

I sure hope you can inject these learnings into the Jewish community - it could sure use it.
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Unread 11-30-2005, 01:18 AM
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I would, if there was a community where I live. The closest ones are WI and MN (far too cold), MO and IL. I used to belong to a Traditional Jewish Renewal Havurah in NYC but that fizzled when the leadership burnt out.

C'est la vie et la guerre.

Luria...hmm, possibly. Seth as in Jane Robert's Seth? I don't remember Seth being discussed even at Elat Chayyim, and I have beene there a few times.

I would love to do the Jewish Shamanic Healing and Jewish Spiritual Guidance programs at Elat Chayyim....

Back to reality. :roll:

I do think the New Age is for everyone who is willing to do the work of transmutation. Im that respect, I see Scorpio and the 8th house as the twilight time: neither light or dark and both. Scorpio is where all dualities meet and are eradicated. Scorpio moves all toward the ultimate singularity.

2¢, as usual.
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Unread 11-30-2005, 02:58 AM
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"Scoripo is where all dualities meet and are eradicated. Scorpio moves all toward the ultimate singularity."

That was like poetry Elianah! It reverberated through me/my 8th house Libra stellium and went......Oooooh yes! Big thanks for so beautifully, accurately, and simplistically verbalizing that one. We are doing this Mercury retrogarde period really well it seems. 8)

Holographic. Even though we appear to be separate, believe ourselves to be separate blah blah blah to learn more through becoming individuated Beings through long long cycles, we've always carried within us the ultimate Holographic imprint of The All That Is (TATI). So we're what??? Smaller individual aspects of TATI out sailing the 7 Seas and beyond, gaining tremendous learnings to add to the TATI so that IT becomes more than IT/US was/is/will be........
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Unread 11-30-2005, 10:44 AM
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All That Is by Seth as Channeled by Jane Roberts http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/...c/althatis.htm
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Unread 11-30-2005, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Im that respect,
Well, I have never claimed I could type. I wonder what sign and planet rules manual dexterity because I sure enough have none. :SIGH:

Kite, I thought that was the Seth you were speaking of. Haven't read any of that material in over 10 years. I think I read Seth Speaks and one other Seth book. They may have had some underlying influence on my thinking, but I think most of the realization came through my seminary journey, especially after my progressed Merc stationed and went direct while still studying at the Jewish Theological Seminary. Merc still hasn't completed the retro phase in my progressed chart (the degree where Mercury first stationed and went retro). Progressed Merc right now is east of my Merc/Pluto conjunction and is 30' after separating from exact conjunction with Pluto. It will be clear of the retro phase in about 5.5 years, just in time for transiting Saturn to conjunct my Virgo midheaven at 27°. C'est la vie...
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Unread 07-15-2015, 02:12 PM
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Re: Karmic, Evolutionary and soul astrology

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Originally Posted by Lapis View Post
I like whatever's happened recently to you Elianah! Or maybe it's me!?!

Boy I wish I knew more about the differences between -

"Karmic" astrology
"Evolutionary" astrology
"Soul Centered" astrology

but I don't so I'll just roll with this because it's so interesting.

I've never heard that "....pluto is the soul and its relationship to the lunar nodes and its polarity point tells us the story of the soul." and it dosen't ring true with me either. I don't think any one planet represents our "SOULS" but that's just me. I'm reminded of a special teaching from the very wise old man that I took astrology classes from in the mid 1970s. He only taught how to erect charts and refused to teach about chart interpretation, which I think was profoundly wise of him. Anyway one day I approached him with my newly drawn up natal chart and asked him where THE most important point in the whole chart was. He said nothing but tapped the exact center of the chart where NOTHING is! Nice huh? He was a gem.....

"....I do not believe that the Creative Source has created and Esoteric-Metaphysical Darwinism where only the members of a specified group will actually be able to ascend to the next phase of man's evolution." Again I haven't read much of H.P.B.'s or Bailey's stuff about this even though I was raised (from age five to eighteen) with Theosophy (3rd generation) and many of her books are staring at me from across the room now! Sigh..... And I'm not certain that I totally understand what you're saying so I'm possibly on dangerous ground here. :shock:

This subject keeps coming up again and again in different non Astrological websites I visit, on different threads at them, and it's a very touchy subject with a lot of people!!! But that makes sense to me because I've been on the other side of this strange setting all my life, taken a ton of **** because of it, and it only now is coming out into the 'Light' once again. In other words I feel like I've lived all my life with this burden but only recently is it being openly discussed or rather hotly argued about now. About this 'Ascension' business as I understand it.....

The words from a Paul Simon song waft through my brain singing.... "One man's ceiling is another man's floor....." and that pretty much sums the whole messy business up! All of humanity is not currently at the exact same evolutionary level. It's never been hence the wide variety of problems, beliefs, abilities, development etc. etc. Let me quickly add that this is IMO, perfectly natural and the way it is.

On another thread we were talking about this same issue I think but in a more round about way through the major transits and how some people get the most out of them and how other people don't! For numerous reasons they simply will not deal with certain things (usually Saturn!!!) but keep on 'keepin' on' regardless like the walking dead in many cases! Right at that point there's a huge schism between groups of souls living side by side on the planet at the same time.

Add to that the other group of souls who do their personal 'work' through the same transits and face their personal demons, fears and transmute what must be transmuted before they can move on to the next phase or level. Now do this same thing over many incarnations with both of these groups of people and after awhile the imbalances become really miserable for all concerned! Only some of the souls who've done the work (I know you know what I mean by that so I won't elaborate) and increased their vibratory rate fast and high enough to be able to NOT be destroyed by moving into the next finer plane, will. The one's who haven't as yet will not move on yet but remain where they can continue working on exactly what they need to.

So......is one group better than the other group? Of course not but many get their panties in a twist over this which I find really ridiculous!!! We don't look down our noses at the people in grade 4 if we're in grade 2 or grade 12. Its just the way it is.

I'm afraid that I just vented things here that should have been said at many of those other sites I mentioned! But it wouldn't have done much good if I had. It will here.
Wrong.

Pluto's placement (as well as Neptune's) effect the way the generations act and even look. Pluto in Cancer has a very domesticated look (the ones with Neptune in Leo, the GI generation, have a more colorful look than those with Neptune in Virgo, the silent generation), Pluto in Leo has a very colorful and attention-grabbing look (the ones with Neptune in Virgo, also part of the silent generation, look extremely serious compared to those with Neptune in Libra, the baby boomers), Pluto in Virgo has a very analytical or athletic look (the ones with Neptune in Sagittarius have a more "exotic" and optimistic look), Pluto in Libra has a very diplomatic or model-esque look, Pluto in Scorpio has a very intense or intuitive look, Pluto in Sagittarius has a very optimistic look (the ones with Neptune in Aquarius have a certain "weird" look to their faces), etc. Pluto in Cancer is very protective and resistant to change, Pluto in Leo is very creative and self-expressive, Pluto in Virgo is very health and service oriented, Pluto in Libra is very social and relationship oriented, Pluto in Scorpio is very dark, intense, and sexual, and Pluto in Sagittarius is very philosophical and loves travel. The way the people from the Pluto generations act is connected to how they undergo their transformations (which is why your Pluto sign is considered your soul sign, like your Sun sign is considered your individual sign. That's why people tend to get along much better with their friends, coworkers, and spouses (their siblings are also likely to be from the same generation but the clashes are generally because of resources) than with their parents, teachers, and bosses and often clash with their children as the people in the former are likely to be from the same Pluto/Neptune generation, thus having the same life challenges/karma). Pluto in Cancer transforms through home and family, Pluto in Leo transforms through creativity and self-expression, Pluto in Virgo transforms through health, work, and service, Pluto in Libra transforms through relationships, Pluto in Scorpio transforms through sex and the occult (I did feel a bit "reborn" when I started getting into stuff like astrology and numerology, which are occult subjects that Scorpio rules), and Pluto in Sagittarius transforms through travel, philosophy, religion, and higher education.

The outer planets clearly have an effect on everybody born in a certain timeframe, as I've seen the differences throughout my life. The inner planets (along with the Sun, Moon, and angles) are individual while the outer planets are generational as their orbits are slower.
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Unread 04-01-2016, 05:18 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Karmic, Evolutionary and soul astrology

Elianah,

I feel your pain and am in the same boat.

However, this is where we need to be at the moment.

The karmic/soul/spiritual astrology field is new to western astrology. And like any new field we are struggling to find our place and flesh out our theoretical underpinnings.

Any new field has growing pains as it tries to establish itself in the mainstream.
An example in medicine is the holistic health movement. 20 years ago, any practitioner advocating complementary medicine
was ridiculed and denigrated. Today this type of medicine is widely accepted.

Karmic astrology is going through the same process.

We are looking at older material in the esoteric tradition, which is a beginning, but some of that work does not feel quite right for modern times and the work we are doing. So we are trying to integrate old and new in a meaningful way. And yes, I do not see Pluto as the soul either.

Progress is being made. When I first started studying karmic astrology 15 years ago, it was difficult to post on traditional astrology forums without being the recipient of ridicule and disdain. Most TAs had never heard of the nodes, or if they had heard of them, refused to acknowledge their import. Also for some reason, karmic work seems to hit buttons for people. The response from the astrology community was either total fascination or complete disdain. Not a lot of middle ground.

Today things have changed for the better. You can see that we are allowed to contribute on general astrology forums, and low and behold, there is even a little category for us, karmic astrology. And the ridicule seems to come from a minority. I personally believe there is room for all kinds of specialities in the field of astrology.

As you point out, we have not really settled upon a name for ourselves yet.
My original extensive training was in the area of karmic astrology, but that title does not really capture the kind of work I am doing.
My work is more soul or spiritual astrology, but people are just finally getting used to the term karmic astrology, so I am sticking with that for the moment.

I am not even sure I should call myself an astrologer. I am someone interested in helping people with their soul growth and evolution, and astrology provides the soul map to assist me in that work.

(However, I do sincerely love looking at natal charts. They are so beautiful and exciting. Looking at the natal chart on a flat piece of paper is not really doing it justice. I see the chart in 3D, not stagnant, with lots of moving parts and energy, it is quite lovely. But I digress.)

The bottom line is hang in there, and keep struggling, thinking, studying and practicing. It will all come together for us at some point.

Julia

Last edited by Julia Karmic Astrology; 05-27-2016 at 08:55 PM.
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Unread 04-01-2016, 05:41 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Karmic, Evolutionary and soul astrology

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Originally Posted by Lapis View Post
I like whatever's happened recently to you Elianah! Or maybe it's me!?!

Boy I wish I knew more about the differences between -

"Karmic" astrology
"Evolutionary" astrology
"Soul Centered" astrology

but I don't so I'll just roll with this because it's so interesting.

I've never heard that "....pluto is the soul and its relationship to the lunar nodes and its polarity point tells us the story of the soul." and it dosen't ring true with me either. I don't think any one planet represents our "SOULS" but that's just me. I'm reminded of a special teaching from the very wise old man that I took astrology classes from in the mid 1970s. He only taught how to erect charts and refused to teach about chart interpretation, which I think was profoundly wise of him. Anyway one day I approached him with my newly drawn up natal chart and asked him where THE most important point in the whole chart was. He said nothing but tapped the exact center of the chart where NOTHING is! Nice huh? He was a gem.....

"....I do not believe that the Creative Source has created and Esoteric-Metaphysical Darwinism where only the members of a specified group will actually be able to ascend to the next phase of man's evolution." Again I haven't read much of H.P.B.'s or Bailey's stuff about this even though I was raised (from age five to eighteen) with Theosophy (3rd generation) and many of her books are staring at me from across the room now! Sigh..... And I'm not certain that I totally understand what you're saying so I'm possibly on dangerous ground here. :shock:

This subject keeps coming up again and again in different non Astrological websites I visit, on different threads at them, and it's a very touchy subject with a lot of people!!! But that makes sense to me because I've been on the other side of this strange setting all my life, taken a ton of **** because of it, and it only now is coming out into the 'Light' once again. In other words I feel like I've lived all my life with this burden but only recently is it being openly discussed or rather hotly argued about now. About this 'Ascension' business as I understand it.....

The words from a Paul Simon song waft through my brain singing.... "One man's ceiling is another man's floor....." and that pretty much sums the whole messy business up! All of humanity is not currently at the exact same evolutionary level. It's never been hence the wide variety of problems, beliefs, abilities, development etc. etc. Let me quickly add that this is IMO, perfectly natural and the way it is.

On another thread we were talking about this same issue I think but in a more round about way through the major transits and how some people get the most out of them and how other people don't! For numerous reasons they simply will not deal with certain things (usually Saturn!!!) but keep on 'keepin' on' regardless like the walking dead in many cases! Right at that point there's a huge schism between groups of souls living side by side on the planet at the same time.

Add to that the other group of souls who do their personal 'work' through the same transits and face their personal demons, fears and transmute what must be transmuted before they can move on to the next phase or level. Now do this same thing over many incarnations with both of these groups of people and after awhile the imbalances become really miserable for all concerned! Only some of the souls who've done the work (I know you know what I mean by that so I won't elaborate) and increased their vibratory rate fast and high enough to be able to NOT be destroyed by moving into the next finer plane, will. The one's who haven't as yet will not move on yet but remain where they can continue working on exactly what they need to.

So......is one group better than the other group? Of course not but many get their panties in a twist over this which I find really ridiculous!!! We don't look down our noses at the people in grade 4 if we're in grade 2 or grade 12. Its just the way it is.

I'm afraid that I just vented things here that should have been said at many of those other sites I mentioned! But it wouldn't have done much good if I had. It will here.
I am loving all of this discussion and think it is spot on in terms of soul growth and development. That is such a good quote from Paul Simon and yes captures the fact that Earth is a one room school house. Souls at all levels of growth.
No level is better or worse than any other level. All souls will evolve eventually.

I welcome any discussion about soul/karmic/evolutionary astrology descriptions, differences and similarities. I am trying to more clearly delineate all of this. Evolutionary astrology feels more theoretical, but perhaps I am wrong here, I do not know much about that area. Karmic and Soul astrology feels more applied.
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  #15  
Unread 04-01-2016, 05:54 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Karmic, Evolutionary and soul astrology

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Originally Posted by Kite View Post
"What I do not believe is that Pluto is the soul and its relationship to the lunar nodes and its polarity point tells us the story of the soul. "

I imagine you're referring to Jeffrey Wolfe Green's work Elianah? I actually had Jeffrey do my chart several years ago and was not impressed with his interpretive skills. I did like his work with Pluto and the nodes but do not feel it gives the full multi-dimensional picture of the soul either. I think the work does point to incarnational issues chosen for further soul development however.

In terms of ascending, I am reminded of the saying "Those who would be first will be last". Those who have done the work to allow a higher vibrational fequency will be able to realize the benefits. Those who weigh themselves down with dualistic thinking and closed hearts will suffer the effects of dis-ease.

The other saying that comes to mind though is "A part cannot be where the whole is not". I read this as meaning we are one being collectively. If some ascend - all must ascend though the lift is relative. In quantum physics this is the butterfly effect in action.
I agree that there is so much information about the soul in the natal chart, it is loaded with data, that it seems a shame to limit a reading to just a piece of the chart. That said, in my work I carve out the Moon, Sun and Nodes to do a more focused quick and dirty reading. So I am probably guilty of doing the same kind of thing as Green.

That is a good quote: A part cannot be where the whole is not.
We are individual souls in a soul collective? Perhaps ascension is bi-directional?
As individuals increase their vibrational levels it impacts the collective, which then sends that energy back to the individuals. That would be a good spiral.
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  #16  
Unread 04-01-2016, 06:09 PM
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Samantha Bean Samantha Bean is offline
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Re: Karmic, Evolutionary and soul astrology

the OP hasn't posted here for 8 years!
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Unread 04-01-2016, 06:09 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Karmic, Evolutionary and soul astrology

[QUOTE=Elianah;3405]Yes, I was speaking about JWG's work with Pluto. And I do agree that it does point towards some incarnational issues but in the direction of transforming and transmuting them. I think that all the planetary nodes speak to what we are bringing from the past and the direction we need to be heading for in the future to perform our soul's work in this lifetime. The planets, for me, represent this moment of time. All need to be worked with in order to get the clearest picture of why the soul chose to be a part of this time period and what it is hoping to do in order to evolve experential energy back up to the Creative Source of All Being. I know that sounds totally un-Jewish but it makes complete sense to me. [QUOTE=Elianah;3405]

There is a big difference between traditional religion and spirituality. The former is created by man, the later is more of a direct connection with the Divine. I was raised Catholic and my current belief system does not seem to coincide with most of my early learnings.

[QUOTE=Elianah;3405] for Theosophy, it may have been part and parcel the teacher who I took an Ancient Wisdom class from, who based it on theosophical teachings. One of the things she taught was about the root races and how only the Arians, who would be the most evolved, would move into the evolutionary state for humans. Certain root races would be finally obliterated, including the root race that the Jews came from. She also said that Hitler was an Avatar and should be looked upon as someone who was willing to take on a nasty job but would improve the Arian stock. When I read Alice Bailey's Esoteric Astrology (because my Polarity Therapy practitioner wanted to introduce me to the concepts of the 7 rays and he knew that I was interested in astrology) I was dismayed by the amount of prejudicial views there were in it, not only about Jews but also other non-Arian root race humans. I realize that it was very much part of that particular generation and before, but if this teacher, and others like her, is propagating these teachings now, I fear for Soul-based astrology that is based on these teachings.[QUOTE=Elianah;3405]

I agree totally. The Esoteric tradition raised important issues of course, but there is no place in modern soul work for some of their tenets. Every generation evolves, and we must refine, improve and update prior work.

Last edited by Julia Karmic Astrology; 04-01-2016 at 06:13 PM.
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Unread 04-01-2016, 06:24 PM
Julia Karmic Astrology Julia Karmic Astrology is offline
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Re: Karmic, Evolutionary and soul astrology

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Originally Posted by Samantha Bean View Post
the OP hasn't posted here for 8 years!
Sorry to rattle you Samantha.

For Karmic Astrologers, Time is a fluid concept.
Past/Present/Future are all the same.

And when you regularly work with Eternity, 8 years is nothing.
An interesting discussion is an interesting discussion whether it took place 8, 80, or 800 years ago.
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Unread 09-28-2016, 09:13 AM
kumrao99 kumrao99 is offline
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Re: Karmic, Evolutionary and soul astrology

Penance method to clean horoscope--
(Article written by kumrao99)
1. A person has to do tapas (penance) for 6 to 12 months. Astrology has borne out of natural laws of gravitation.
14 billion years ago, there was only one sun in entire cosmos. There was big explosion and nearly 10000 or 50000 suns formed. Our sun is one such sun. Again explosion took place, planets were separated from our sun. There are 14 or 15 planets around our sun. Earth is one such planet.
2. Each planet is big bundle of energy rotating around sun. Earth is also one such planet rotating around sun. While rotating, these planets produce different vibrations in 12 different signs of zodiac. Sages found with higher knowledge, that the planets give different results to individuals borne at different times in a day or month. They also found that the every individual is also mini energy field like every planet. The energy field of an individual can be increased by doing tapas (penance) for a few years, observing sex and food disciplines.
3. Pranic energy or divine energy or quantum energy is spread throughout the universe.Every individual also contains a minute quantity of that pranic energy. Kundalini cleaning is key to activate pranic energy or divine energy in any individual. A person has to stop the food items mentioned below. They are milk products, etc. Simultaneously, a person has to chant Om Namah sivaya mantra ,while standing like a cow on four legs. This is semi inverted position. A person can chant any mantra, which he likes. He has to stand in that cow pose for 2 min and chant mantra which he likes. Then has to take rest for 3 min. He/she has to do like that for 6 times in the morning and 6 times in the evening/night. After every two min chanting in cow pose, he has to take rest for 3 mins. You have to do penance for 6months or one year in the following way. People are busy seeing this temple and that temple.
4. An idol in a temple gets strength only when a saint gives his power to it through a yantra,through tantra sastra. Every person will have accumulated sins and virtues,from his forefathers and fore-mothers. Genes show the diseases in his body. Horoscope shows the accumulated sins of the person. Penance includes sex discipline and diet discipline. Penance removes the sins or negativity in your genes, inherited from your forefathers and fore-mothers. In ancient India, kings and intelligent people were doing penance or austerities for one or two years,to reduce the negativity of planets in the horoscope and increase the efficiency of planets which are placed well.
.

5.Astrology is esoteric science.It is not intended to know the employment
prospects,marriage prospects or finance prospects.This science
is mainly intended to know planetary weaknesses at your birth time,
which rule the future of your life for the next 70years after birth.

6.Sages say penance means doing austerities involving body suffering,
along with food discipline and sex discipline.
Easy remedies like puja,japa,homam and visiting temples will have effect only
when they are combined with tapas.

7.Precious stones are being sold canvassing that bad planetary effects will
be minimised or removed.If it is so,rich people can wear any number of
costly stones and prevent calamities in their life.
Homams are also costly affair nowadays.
In the ancient days saints did homams regularly for years together,
while observing celibacy ,fasting once in 3 or 4 days and offering
prayers in difficult yoga asanas.

8.Nowadays ,even elders are busy in seeing their children getting good degrees,
then get employed and later getting married.
Astrology is a great science which will enable you to know your genetic defects,
spiritually.When they receive setback in their pursuit of the ambitions,
they get frustrated and will become depressed and begin to abuse their parents or
their colleges or the society.

9.Even elders are ignorant that their financial failures or marriage failures,
have got something to do with pitfalls in their horoscope itself.
Lack of awareness of food discipline,is leading to so many diseases.
When your horoscope has got bad placements,it indicates negativity.
It further indicates that you inherited bad karma from previous births.
You have to do penance (tapas ) for 6months or 12 or 18 months.
10.Penance means to avoid milk products(milk,curd,buttermilk,
sweets,nonveg,fish,eggs and dry fruits for one year.
You can take routine meals and other tiffins.
You have to do fasting one day in a week,on Sanivar,for one year.
On the day of fasting ,you can eat uncooked vegetables(unlimited
quantity).
11.After doing fast(upavas) like the above for 2 months,you have to do fasting
once in a week,for 3months.On the day of fasting ,you can drink
diluted lemon juice 15 times.You can add honey also ,small quantity.
YOu have to do fasting for two days in a fortnight,for 3months.
On the two days,you can take diluted lemon juice 15 times.

12. .Fasting is accepted as the best method to clean soul.
Cleaning soul means cleaning sins of previous births.
Mahatma Gandhi used to fast for one or two days,every two weeks.
He did like that for 5 or 7 years.That is how he became so famous.
Likewise,Morarji desai became prime minister at the age of
13..He was also fasting very frequently for 30 years.
Prime minister Modi was fasting all the nine days of dasara,taking
only diluted lemon juice.He was doing like that for the last 25 years.
It is said that he was also fasting 2 or 3 days continuously,every month.
14 .Penance by taking cold water baths 3times daily.
Cold water contains electromagnetism.It is divinity.
That is why in ancient days sages lived by the side of
rivers,to make it easy to take cold water baths daily 6times.
You can take only 3 cold water baths daily.
15.Daily feed birds and animals.
good wishes,
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