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  #1  
Unread 01-03-2012, 01:51 PM
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Mother/Father 4th/10th House

I was just reading another thread where they were debating about the 4th/10th house and if it is the mother or father represented by said house.
I was always taught that the 4th house is the mother and 10th house is the father. There were some caveats though, it could be switched if the father was more of the "care taker" or the mother was the "breadwinner", also that one parent could represent both houses, also maybe depending on the gender of the querent.
The 4th is naturally ruled by Cancer thus the moon, and the 10th ruled by Capricorn ergo saturn... but the sun can also represent the father correct?
Do these planets correlate with the parents?
Mom= moon, venus
Dad= saturn, sun, mars
What is the general consensus on this matter?

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Unread 01-03-2012, 02:52 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by student4life View Post
I was just reading another thread where they were debating about the 4th/10th house and if it is the mother or father represented by said house.
I was always taught that the 4th house is the mother and 10th house is the father. There were some caveats though, it could be switched if the father was more of the "care taker" or the mother was the "breadwinner", also that one parent could represent both houses, also maybe depending on the gender of the querent.
The 4th is naturally ruled by Cancer thus the moon, and the 10th ruled by Capricorn ergo saturn... but the sun can also represent the father correct?
Do these planets correlate with the parents?
Mom= moon, venus
Dad= saturn, sun, mars
What is the general consensus on this matter?
Lot depends on whether you follow Modern astrology (like myself) or traditional astrology. This can be quite a contentious issue around here.

moon =mother and sun/saturn = father

generally speaking you are correct and MC/IC describes early childhood circumstances.

due to ever rising divorce rates, there are more and more single parents having to provide both roles for children these days

Last edited by astrologer50; 01-03-2012 at 05:31 PM.
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Unread 01-03-2012, 02:57 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

Yes I find that astrology like everything is gender-ed yet gender roles can be more subjective than reality. Can you then look at a Saturn if you have a 'dominant mother, who fulfills traditional father roles' or would you see things pointing to the absence of a father?
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Unread 01-03-2012, 03:09 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

Yes, you should be able to, at least in my opinion... If the father stays home and takes care of the children while the mother goes out and works to bring home money then you will have a swap of the 4/10 influence. Also looking at the aspects of the sun and the moon you can see the relationship of the parents with one another (through the natives eyes at least)
That is what I was taught by my grandmother (who was a very good astrologer). I know that everyone has their own method though, so if someone is more comfortable having a stringent opinion of what it means to them than that is fine too. I was just wondering what most people go by.
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Unread 01-03-2012, 03:15 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

my 4th scorp my 10th taurus lollllllllll Yeah I can agree with that. Yeah most people go with the traditional houses I met..... Saturn= father and such
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Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-03-2012, 03:18 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Yes I find that astrology like everything is gender-ed yet gender roles can be more subjective than reality. Can you then look at a Saturn if you have a 'dominant mother, who fulfills traditional father roles' or would you see things pointing to the absence of a father?
not really, look at aspects from your moon,house placement, planets in 4th and 10th..
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Unread 01-03-2012, 03:20 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

Ok and does a strong sag influence say anything about one's father cuz I know some people with strong sag and they have usually absent fathers....
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It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.
-Buddha
The person who reads too much and uses his brain too little will fall into lazy habits of thinking.
—Albert Einstein
Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-03-2012, 03:25 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

My 4th house is Capricorn, my 10th house is Cancer. My North Node is in Capricorn.
My MC is Gemini, and my IC is Sagittarius.. The 11th and 3rd houses, respectively. I did some reading and apparently the IC (Imum Coeli) is ruled by the father, too, and the traits are like, secret traits or something.
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Unread 01-03-2012, 04:57 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Ok and does a strong sag influence say anything about one's father cuz I know some people with strong sag and they have usually absent fathers....
[deleted attacking comments - Moderator]

There can be a few things that can indicate this, involving the outers (Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto) for which Traditional astrologers don't use these planets.

So any one of these conj MC/IC in 4th and 10th can be strong indicators...

Last edited by wilsontc; 01-03-2012 at 07:10 PM.
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Unread 01-03-2012, 04:59 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by giventofly View Post
My 4th house is Capricorn, my 10th house is Cancer. My North Node is in Capricorn.
My MC is Gemini, and my IC is Sagittarius.. The 11th and 3rd houses, respectively. I did some reading and apparently the IC (Imum Coeli) is ruled by the father, too, and the traits are like, secret traits or something.
ONLY in your case as Capricorn rules your IC. IF your MC is gemini then your IC MUST be saggitarius not capricorn, unless of course you are using Equal house system (mine)
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Unread 01-03-2012, 05:12 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by Sugar View Post
In order to find the significator of father and mother in a Natal Chart you use the Almuten. Almuten means the Planet with the highest Dignity

For mother you find the Almuten of the following places:

10th Sign
10th Sign Lord
Lot of Mother (ASC + Moon - Saturn)
Lord of Lot
Venus

For Father:

4th Sign
4th Sign Lord
Lot of Father (ASC + Sun - Saturn)
Lord of Lot
Sun

When you find the Planet that rules your parent, you Direct it with Primary Directions, if you wanted to Predict accidents and death
Does this change if it's a day or night chart?
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  #12  
Unread 01-03-2012, 05:17 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

Ok I was asking a question, just cuz I notice something doesnt mean it's right Thanks for the info btw
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It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.
-Buddha
The person who reads too much and uses his brain too little will fall into lazy habits of thinking.
—Albert Einstein
Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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  #13  
Unread 01-03-2012, 06:29 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
Does this change if it's a day or night chart?
ONLY for Traditional astrologers, for Moderns it's irrelevant..
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Unread 01-04-2012, 02:12 AM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Ok and does a strong sag influence say anything about one's father cuz I know some people with strong sag and they have usually absent fathers....
I don't know that "a strong Sag influence" says anything in particular, I think it all depends on the sign/ house/ aspects/ and degrees...

It is very hard to make generalizations in astrology. It is like an artist working on a painting and layering all of the layers of paint to complete the picture, you can't just make one broad stroke and say it is a painting (you could but it wouldn't be a good one .)
To me Saturn represents lessons to learn or that have already been learned, also teaching, it is also hard work, you must have a solid foundation to build on, if you do not learn the lesson the first time around Saturn will keep throwing it at you until you get it... It is constrictive, it is not impulsive, it hones it's skill until it is "perfected", it can bring delays and set backs, it's a leader and it's all business...

My chart ruler is Saturn. My ASC is Capricorn, my Saturn is conjunct Pluto and is also in a stellium with my MC and Mars in Libra (so Saturn is exalted and at 15 degrees).

Things have definitely not been easy, but I do not feel like Saturn is as bad as most people say. Maybe it is because I have such a strong influence from it in my natal chart. I feel that it has made me very strong like "tempered steel".
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Unread 01-04-2012, 02:45 AM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

Traditionally, the fourth house is assigned to the father and is ruled:

- Sun - by day
- Saturn - by night

The 10th house is assigned to the mother and is ruled:

- Venus - by day
- Moon - by night

The assignment of the Moon ruling the fourth house, (and the mother), is a recent invention by modern astrologers who decided to use "natural rulers" of the houses.

I personally use the fourth house for the "dominant" parent who had the most influence.

Last edited by eedwards; 01-04-2012 at 02:48 AM.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 03:18 AM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
Does this change if it's a day or night chart?
The formula of each Lot CHANGES relative to day or night.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 03:43 AM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
The formula of each Lot CHANGES relative to day or night.
I have been meaning to ask (and I know this is off topic) does Astro.com calculate the PoF based on whether or not it's a day or night chart?
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Last edited by tsmall; 01-04-2012 at 03:49 AM.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 03:45 AM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

Thanks student for life you remind me of prince williams wife kate.
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It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.
-Buddha
The person who reads too much and uses his brain too little will fall into lazy habits of thinking.
—Albert Einstein
Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission—to be of service to them wherever they require it.—Francis of Assisi
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Unread 01-04-2012, 03:45 AM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

TSMALL
Yes-unless you check the box indicating "day formula only", they calculate relative to day or night; in the Lot calculator (Arabic Parts Calculator site) however, you must put the formula in yourself (for all the Lots), ie, you must adjust for day or night placement.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 03:54 AM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
TSMALL
Yes-unless you check the box indicating "day formula only", they calculate relative to day or night; in the Lot calculator (Arabic Parts Calculator site) however, you must put the formula in yourself (for all the Lots), ie, you must adjust for day or night placement.
Thanks, dr. farr. A calculator, like this one?

http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/a...arts/index.php

Luckily, it does tell you which to use if for day or night.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 04:00 AM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

Yes that's the one I mean!
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Unread 01-04-2012, 12:45 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
TSMALL
Yes-unless you check the box indicating "day formula only", they calculate relative to day or night; in the Lot calculator (Arabic Parts Calculator site) however, you must put the formula in yourself (for all the Lots), ie, you must adjust for day or night placement.
I wonder if my computer program takes that into account. You would think that they would automatically account for that because you enter a birth time to erect the chart in the first place...
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Unread 01-04-2012, 12:52 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by eedwards View Post
Traditionally, the fourth house is assigned to the father and is ruled:

- Sun - by day
- Saturn - by night

The 10th house is assigned to the mother and is ruled:

- Venus - by day
- Moon - by night

The assignment of the Moon ruling the fourth house, (and the mother), is a recent invention by modern astrologers who decided to use "natural rulers" of the houses.

I personally use the fourth house for the "dominant" parent who had the most influence.
Maybe that's why I was originally taught that it changes according to the native.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 12:55 PM
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Re: Mother/Father 4th/10th House

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Originally Posted by Love2Know View Post
Thanks student for life you remind me of prince williams wife kate.
Thanks L2K, LOL if only I were that regal
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