The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

JUPITERASC

Well-known member


....I read several interpretations of Jupiter in the 1st and 12th houses. I have to say I relate more to the 12th house descriptions.

For one thing, I keep reading about the physicality of the 1st house people as big boned, big in general, heavy. Their personas are larger than life, gregarious and "out there!" I am diminuitive: small frame, 5'2" 108 pounds, soft spoken, introverted. (But not a shrinking violet! Also assertive, enthusiastic and tenacious ... with a sense of humor!).
The 'one-size-fits-all' School of astrology certainly believes that EVERYONE with Jupiter in 1st House
or anyone with a Sagittarius ascendant
'is larger than life, heavy' and so on and so forth.....

HOWEVER

a brief look at celebrity charts shows that is simply not so

Alyssa Milano of 'Charmed' for example, has Sagittarius Rising


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famous revolutionary Che Guevarra
Jupiter in 1st House






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by the way
Main Rulerships of 1st house include

Life, vitality and health.

Stature, colour, complexion, form and shape of body.

Older sources note its influence upon the intellect, the way the mind works, and speech.

In general, the first house represents the focal point for the personality and manner of expression.

As well as describing the physical appearance,
the condition of this house and that of its planetary ruler indicates the level of personal vitality and strength.

.....I relate to the "guardian angel" theme of Jupiter in the 12th, as I have been whisked out of harm's way at the eleventh hour countless times. Seems there is a protective angelic force around me. Believe me, I have stories that would make the little hairs on the back of your neck stand up. I still marvel at my good fortune in these incidents.

Still...I realize a chart is a "big picture" that must be viewed holistically.
That's the 'one-size-fits-all' School of astrology... closely aligned with the 'cookbook-recipe' School of astrology
because
NOT ALL those who are 'whisked out of harm's way at the eleventh hour countless times'
NECESSARILY have their natal Jupiter in natal 12th

so

there's apparently an alternative explanation :smile:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Interesting, JUPITERASC! Thanks for sharing.

When I plug in whole systems on Astro, the chart generated looks about the same to me.
I must be doing something wrong... surprise, surprise!
Even if it came up correctly, I can't post the thumbnail on this computer & don't know when I can borrow someone else's.
Would you post it for me?

:happy:!
I have attached your natal WHOLE SIGNS chart
as well as
your natal PORPHYRY HOUSES chart

because
in so-called 'ancient times'
astrologers of old
used a method
that involved reference to both Whole Sign Houses and Porphyry Houses in tandem
and so
there is no need for you to 'totally discard Placidus Houses'
and
you can simply use BOTH Whole Sign and Placidus
because
Quadrant based systems such as Placidus
are useful for gauging Planetary Strength
 

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CuriousCat

Active member
Wow! Great! It was so very nice of you to create and post two charts for me! Thank you, JUPITERASC.

I appreciate your introduction to these systems. :cool:
 

CuriousCat

Active member
Given all this juicy chart info... what does it appear I should be doing at this stage of life? What vocations or areas of interest do the charts indicate are the best directions for me to head in now?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Given all this juicy chart info...
what does it appear I should be doing at this stage of life?
What vocations
or areas of interest
do the charts indicate
are the best directions for me to head in now?
Zoltan Mason of New York
taught the methods of Morin deVillefranche
which are designed to answer just these kinds of questions

HOWEVER

delineating any natal chart may require at the very least hours :smile:
and often days, weeks, months and so on

fortunately
since ours is an astrological learning forum
the method of delineation you require is described
with guidance and examples
on the Traditional board at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48463 if you are interested to explore these pastures new
Have fun!
The type of Delineation I'm giving here is a mix of medieval techniques with those of the Hellenistic authors.

Robert Zoller played great role in my traditional astrology education and this is obvious for those who are familiar with his work.

I need to mention that even though Zoller was initially very fond on Arabia authors,
his basic delineation techniques are taken from the early Renaissance French astrologer Morin.
Zoller studied with Zoltan Mason who introduced Morin and his basic natal delineation to Zoller.
Zoltan was also one of the first translators of Morin.

Here are some tips for delineating the chart in this manner.

1. The good or bad signified by a house emanates from the ruler of the house.
This is the basic rule. The ruler of the house is giver of the material of the house.

Zoller gives the example of his own chart where he has Combusted Mercury in 11th, ruler of 4th. He comments that this kind of placement brings adversity to ones home and dwellings.

2. Benefit in one area of life can be produced by adversity, or even conflict, in another.

Again Zoller gives example from his own chart.
Jupiter in 9th in Scorpio disposited from Mars in 11th: Wisdom coming from conflicts.

3. The delineation tells you the what. The
predictive techniques tell you the when.


4. The Elemental Quality of the Sign of the Ascendant is showing the type of Primary Motivation of the native.

Fire goes for freedom of action and power.
Air goes for freedom of expression and movement.
The Water signs need emotional security
Earth signs need physical security.

The person with masculine Ascendant (or majority of planets in masculine signs) speaks in active terms: "I did this to that person".
The person with feminine sign on Ascendant or majority planets in feminine signs, speaks in passive terms: "This happened to me".

The Feminine signs seek advice because they need second hand in their decisions, in fact they want someone else to make the decision for them.
Masculine signs seek advice because they have many options so they are not sure which option is better.

Cardinal signs are most active. Cardinal water and earth (Cancer and Capricorn) are working great amount of actions but in circumstances and environment structured already by someone else.
Libra and Aries (Cardinal masculine) are working great in any kind of circumstances.

Fixed signs are centripetal, they need center. They are very successful in Acquisations.
Taurus hoards money.
Leo hoards glory and honor.
Scorpio hoards the hidden things, hidden motivations of other people, seek energy and vitality.
Aquarius hoards Knowledge.

Mutable signs vacillate between the two: cardinal and fixed.

5. Examine the planets which most closely aspects the Ascendant. These planets add to the whole Primary Motivation thing.

Planets aspecting the Ascendant represent powers the native can use in the world.

The aspecting planet's local determination will be added to the Primary
Motivation.
(Venus in 5th will add love for pleasure and entertainment to the native's Primary Motivation).

The aspect between the aspecting planet and the Ascendant tells you how the being of the planet and its local determination are linked.

6. The Ruler of the Ascendant by its house position tells you where (what area of life) the native will seek to realize his/her Primary Motivation.

Look also at all 5 dignity rulers in the place of the ASC. The Almuten and Exalted ruler are lamost as significant as the domicile ruler (sometimes even more).

The Ruler of the Ascendant (as well as the other rulers) by its nature and zodiacal state shows the methods the native will use and the success or failure of the drive.

This is great quote by Zoller:
This little trick is of great practical value. By means of it, we may understand what the native wants. All other wants and desires are negotiable, but not the Primary Motivation. If you interfere with another person's ability to realize their Primary Motivation, they are gone."

Lets assume that a person has Cancer on the Ascendant,
The primary motivation of this person is the Need for Emotional Security.
The ruler/s of the Ascendant and their zodiacal and local state will determine How would this be achieved.

Lets assume Moon on IC in Libra Peregrine.
Jupiter in 6th (but 7th sign!) in Capricorn.
Venus in Sag in 6th - Peregrine.
Mars in Scorpio in 4th (but 5th sign!)
Saturn (term ruler) is in 5th Scorpio Peregrine.

We can see that Moon is strong by accident (being on angle), so we can judge first from there.
The need for Emotional Security this person would seek in the home, in the place of the father. The father would be the means through which this person would try to achieve the Emotional Security.
Jupiter - the exalted ruler is weak by being cadent, Venus too. They can't produce much in giving the emotional security this person seeks.
Jupiter by universal means suggest that the native would seek wisdom, religion (and the person actually did!) but by being cadent and in fall, it can't productively give what it promise.
Mars is in 4/5th and is strong by zodiacal state, but is out of sect malefic.
It would try to win competitions, but also with Saturn in 5th will give great deal of creativity. Mars rules the 10th - creativity and looking for career, would also give some amount of emotional security for this person. But by being square with Sun in 7th it means that it will have opposition from authorities and other people in general.

The primary motivation is great deal of what we unconsciously and often consciously seek for. Once that motivation is broken or someone interrupt it, we seek to fix that in the every possible way we can do that.

I will continue with the tips in my next post
.


7. Position is stronger than rulership.

Aries on 5th house cusp. Jupiter in Aries.
Juptier is having much more important for the issues of the house then the ruler Mars.

8. The planet in detriment can not produce effectively what it promises


9.The house represents the beginning of a matter, the ruler of the house,
represents the development of the matter, a kind of middle
point, and the final dispositor, i.e. the planet that rules the sign in which
the ruler is placed represents the end of the matter
.


10. The planet which is closest to cusp is the most important in the house and dominates the affairs of the house, because of the rule that position is stronger than rulership, unless the ruler of the house is also in the house.

11. Planets can do 3 things. They can produce something,
they can deny something, or they can destroy something once it has been
produced
.
 

CuriousCat

Active member
delineating any natal chart may require at the very least hours
and often days, weeks, months and so on


Well, JUPITERASC, I imagine one could spend a lifetime studying the nuances of a single chart. But I also think that some here, (including you!), could also, after an investment of 15 or 20 minutes, discern and offer some pretty keen insights!

Having said that, I am appreciative of your insistence that I work out the details myself in service to learning. Furthermore, I sense that you have a bias that there could be some self-discovery and personal growth that would only be possible from working on the chart myself.

(Therefore, in light of my greater good, you defer the task to me. How charitable of you!). :happy:

You linked me to a wonderful, instructional thread that will be of enormous help. What an ideal guide. Thank you!:cool:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
delineating any natal chart may require at the very least hours
and often days, weeks, months and so on


Well, JUPITERASC, I imagine one could spend a lifetime studying the nuances of a single chart.

But I also think that some here, (including you!),
could also, after an investment of 15 or 20 minutes,
discern and offer some pretty keen insights!

Having said that, I am appreciative of your insistence that I work out the details myself in service to learning.

Furthermore, I sense that you have a bias that there could be some self-discovery and personal growth
that would only be possible from working on the chart myself.

(Therefore, in light of my greater good, you defer the task to me. How charitable of you!). :happy:

You linked me to a wonderful, instructional thread that will be of enormous help.
What an ideal guide. Thank you!
:cool:
And thank you for being interested to explore astrological alternatives :smile:

By the way....dependent on an individual's thoroughness.... 15 or 20 minutes is definitely insufficient....
as you are likely to realise as soon as you begin exploring these new areas, especially since you already have considerable astrological studies completed, albeit from an alternative view.
and if one multiplies 15 or 20 minutes by the number of questions asked daily on natal charts
that's more time available than there is in a day, a week, a month, a year
taking into account one's other daily commitments
furthermore no one is infallible, so better to research one's own chart, rather than rely on others
far more interesting and fun
 

CuriousCat

Active member
I have considerable astrological studies completed? Surely you jest, JUPITERASC! Where in the universe did you come up with that idea?

Well, in my short time here, I certainly have glimpsed some very interesting insights shared based on what appeared to be a rather cursory scan of natal charts (according to time stamps on posts!).

Your heart and soul is fond, it seems, of encouraging others to march to their own drummer. You strive to help people stand on their own two feet as you value independence (so it appears to me!).

No, I would never "rely" on other's assessments, but feedback from respected sources can be instructive in conjunction with one's own impressions. We all have blind spots!

Thanks again for your guidance and encouragement!:joyful:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
CuriousCat;553342[FONT=Georgia said:
I have considerable astrological studies completed?
Surely you jest, JUPITERASC!
Where in the universe did you come up with that idea?
That proves how wrong I can be :smile:
Well, in my short time here,
I certainly have glimpsed some very interesting insights shared
based on what appeared to be a rather cursory scan of natal charts
(according to time stamps on posts!).
There seems a definite tendency to fast judgement
with no clear indication given regarding the astrological basis for those conclusions drawn

Your heart and soul is fond, it seems, of encouraging others to march to their own drummer.
You strive to help people stand on their own two feet
as you value independence (so it appears to me!).
I certainly value that with some study and practice
many of us have the ability to discern and delineate their own natal chart

No, I would never "rely" on other's assessments,
but feedback from respected sources can be instructive in conjunction with one's own impressions.
We all have blind spots!

Thanks again for your guidance and encouragement!
:joyful:
That's OK - by the way you may find this thread of interest
- it's a discussion of HELLENISTIC DELINEATIONS
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43920
 

CuriousCat

Active member
Well I'm going about studying this in a rather haphazard manner! Piecing together the puzzle, slowly, bit by bit. My approach feels disjointed, but I am trying to connect the dots. I am truly starting from scratch!

Hmmm....well I see Neptune is in the 8th house, which I read has to do with other people's money, inheritances, and the like, that often the native acquires money not their own earnings, but others', especially a partner. They supposedly manage these funds with care & responsibility if there is no other monkey business going on in the chart (Of that...I am not sure!).

Also Venus is in the 8th house, which indicates a strong attraction to bold, egotistical, strong personalities! That certainly rings true! I like people with grit and strength who don't give a tootsie about what other people think! (While I do polite, sweet and cordial exceedingly well!).

Pluto is in opposition to my ascendant which is another indicator that I like those brazen types, evidently! Wow! Also indicates I like getting my way. (I have referred here to my tenacity and bull-headedness!).

From my limited understanding and perspective, these placements seem "auspicious" for the most part. However ... Saturn is square with Neptune? Not so auspicious? I read that Whitney Houston had that. Does that interject confusion and insecurity into the picture?

Any observations or guidance or even laughing at or bashing my crazy quilt musings would be welcome. :wink: (Since I am so fond of nasty people!).
 
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