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  #176  
Unread 07-02-2020, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
I think both bullying and abuse can be done by both adults and children. Plenty of examples around.

Both often arise from one's own insecurities, but proper abuse is when things are taken too far.
Yes, after I wrote what I wrote I remembered an example of two boys who were 14 who murdered a young boy of about 8. Itís a famous example although famous seems to be the wrong word to use. Nevertheless, your missing my point I was making in a conversation and just jumping on a technicality, all because I didnít use the word Ďusually.í Do you know the point I was making?

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  #177  
Unread 07-02-2020, 06:05 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Bullying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Yes, after I wrote what I wrote I remembered an example of two boys who were 14 who murdered a young boy of about 8. Itís a famous example although famous seems to be the wrong word to use. Nevertheless, your missing my point I was making in a conversation and just jumping on a technicality, all because I didnít use the word Ďusually.í Do you know the point I was making?
"Infamous" is the right word to describe it.
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  #178  
Unread 07-02-2020, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post
Well Uk,

One thing I do know from my past with you, is that I like you. So since the transits of everything are messing with 3 planets and my asc at 24-25 degrees, hey, it could be me😄.

Later uk, I want no issue with you my friend.
My thoughts exactly. I really was only trying to make the point that not all bullying can be seen so it is hard to stand up for yourself or put a stop to it.
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  #179  
Unread 07-02-2020, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
"Infamous" is the right word to describe it.
Thanks, thatís the one.
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  #180  
Unread 07-02-2020, 12:28 PM
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Re: Bullying

1 saturn/pluto/chiron in 1st house or conjunct asc
2 mars/lilith/pluto/chiron in 3rd house or hard aspects + conjunct with mercury
3 aries/pluto mercury
4 saturn hard aspect to pluto
5 mars in 12th house worse if its afflicted
6 mars pluto in hard aspects esp. opposition
7 aries or mars in 11th house
8 lilith chiron in 11th house
9 lilith chiron in 5th house
10 uranus in 12th afflicted they may feel like an outcast
11 sun in 12th house
12 heavy scorp or 8th house
experiences
i have saturn in 1st house and taurus mars in aries 11th house
my brother has chiron conjunct pluto conjunct asc mercury square chiron and pluto in 3rd house
my dad had weak cancer mars in 3rd house
a friend of mine had mars in 12th house afflicted by saturn and mercury
*mars and lilith in 12th opposite pluto also aries mercury square chiron
* lilith and chiron in 11th gives bad rep.
*mars conjunct mercury in leo 11th house

in 2018 i was bullied badly and in solar return i had sag/cap 3rd house lilith pluto and saturn landed here 5th house dom. chiron here.

Last edited by devilmaycare; 07-02-2020 at 01:04 PM.
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  #181  
Unread 07-02-2020, 01:03 PM
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Re: Bullying

bullies (some of these are also bullied bullies)
aries taurus scorpio placements heavy scorpio might both be a bully and bullied esp scorpio moon
2nd/8th house dom again 8th may be bullied too
aries/scorpio mercury
mercury aff by pluto mars or lilith
mars/pluto in 3rd house
nessus conjunct asc
pluto conjunct asc dsc ic
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  #182  
Unread 08-02-2020, 06:00 PM
Zeuses Zeuses is offline
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Re: Bullying

Charts that indicate a manipulative personality and perhaps jealousy, ignorance etc Bullies often twist everything the victim says and does to make them 1) look bad to others and to isolate them and 2) attempt to take their confidence away. I think it is really difficult to say a specific sun sign.

Last edited by Zeuses; 08-02-2020 at 06:06 PM.
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  #183  
Unread 08-02-2020, 07:12 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Bullying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuses View Post
Charts that indicate a manipulative personality and perhaps jealousy, ignorance etc Bullies often twist everything the victim says and does to make them 1) look bad to others and to isolate them and 2) attempt to take their confidence away. I think it is really difficult to say a specific sun sign.
Sun-signs alone can tell us a lot, but definitely not enough to determine whether someone will turn out to be a bully.
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  #184  
Unread 08-02-2020, 08:04 PM
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Re: Bullying

I would be interested to hear what manipulative aspects are, as well as jealousy aspects.

I would also think they would have a tough inner life, be really insecure and have an emotional aspects, like with Moon, afflicted because all bullying is basically projection.

They would be competitive too because they donít want to be a loser.
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  #185  
Unread 08-02-2020, 10:41 PM
Zeuses Zeuses is offline
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[QUOTE=Zeuses;1059007]Charts that indicate a manipulative personality and perhaps jealousy, ignorance etc Bullies often twist everything the victim says and does to make them 1) look bad to others and to isolate them and 2) attempt to take their confidence away. I think it is really difficult to say a specific sun sign. I thought I had added something from Skywriter that suggests looking at Pluto in the houses for bullying and also aspects with mars, Pluto or Saturn.
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  #186  
Unread 08-02-2020, 10:46 PM
Zeuses Zeuses is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
I would be interested to hear what manipulative aspects are, as well as jealousy aspects.

I would also think they would have a tough inner life, be really insecure and have an emotional aspects, like with Moon, afflicted because all bullying is basically projection.

They would be competitive too because they donít want to be a loser.
Skywriter suggests sun mars conjunctions where competitiveness can go too far. I still think there would need to be more than one thing in the chart. I agree that perhaps the moon or something like that which may show self esteem issues in the bully. I can't see how someone who bullies feels good in themselves. Similarly with jealousy and manipulation.
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  #187  
Unread 08-02-2020, 11:04 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Bullying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuses View Post
Skywriter suggests sun mars conjunctions where competitiveness can go too far. I still think there would need to be more than one thing in the chart. I agree that perhaps the moon or something like that which may show self esteem issues in the bully. I can't see how someone who bullies feels good in themselves. Similarly with jealousy and manipulation.
Parental behavior is a major factor. Bullies reward their kids for becoming bullies.
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  #188  
Unread 08-02-2020, 11:23 PM
Zeuses Zeuses is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Parental behavior is a major factor. Bullies reward their kids for becoming bullies.
I am sure that definitely occurs but I don't think that's always the case. There's probably attachment issues, self esteem, jealousy, control and also those who are incapable of empathy or want to get ahead at all costs.
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  #189  
Unread 08-03-2020, 04:57 AM
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Smile Re: Bullying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuses View Post
I am sure that definitely occurs but I don't think that's always the case. There's probably attachment issues, self esteem, jealousy, control and also those who are incapable of empathy or want to get ahead at all costs.
I think a lot of Chart configurations are resistant to bullying, even if there is external pressure to accept it and dish it out.

Bullies usually have a "pecking order", meaning they acknowledge the right of some to bully them, and a belief that they have the right to choose to bully others.

Last edited by david starling; 08-03-2020 at 05:00 AM.
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  #190  
Unread 08-03-2020, 11:14 AM
Zeuses Zeuses is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
I think a lot of Chart configurations are resistant to bullying, even if there is external pressure to accept it and dish it out.

Bullies usually have a "pecking order", meaning they acknowledge the right of some to bully them, and a belief that they have the right to choose to bully others.
Again, I am sure that the above happens and that perceptions can also differ by individuals However, for the bullied it isnt a pleasant experience and we should be cautious in astrology to allocate anything that looks like placing blame on a victim. I also suspect that people may not be constantly bullied throughout life so that would indicate the influence of transits at certain periods I guess, eg Pluto Saturn or mars.
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  #191  
Unread 08-03-2020, 12:21 PM
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Re: Bullying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuses View Post


Charts that indicate a manipulative personality and perhaps jealousy, ignorance etc Bullies often twist everything the victim says and does to make them 1) look bad to others and to isolate them and 2) attempt to take their confidence away.

I think it is really difficult to say a specific sun sign.

Singling out specific sun sign as "bullying"
is itself a form of astrological bullying


DEFINITION

Bullying is the use of force, coercion, or threat
to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate.
The behavior is often repeated and habitual.
One essential prerequisite is the perception
by the bully

or

by others
of an imbalance of physical or social power.
This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict.

Bullying is a subcategory of aggressive behavior
characterized by the following three minimum criteria:
(1) hostile intent
(2) imbalance of power
and (3) repetition over a period of time.

Bullying is the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior
intended to hurt another individual
physically
mentally
or emotionally



.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #192  
Unread 08-03-2020, 01:26 PM
Zeuses Zeuses is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Singling out specific sun sign as "bullying"
is itself a form of astrological bullying


DEFINITION

Bullying is the use of force, coercion, or threat
to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate.
The behavior is often repeated and habitual.
One essential prerequisite is the perception
by the bully

or

by others
of an imbalance of physical or social power.
This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict.

Bullying is a subcategory of aggressive behavior
characterized by the following three minimum criteria:
(1) hostile intent
(2) imbalance of power
and (3) repetition over a period of time.

Bullying is the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior
intended to hurt another individual
physically
mentally
or emotionally



.
I agree and I think it is difficult to completely determine what all the different possible elements there may be in the chart of a bully, but I would be surprised if Pluto/mars/Saturn wasn't involved as at least one aspect.
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  #193  
Unread 08-05-2020, 04:59 PM
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Re: Bullying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuses View Post

I agree and I think it is difficult to completely determine
what all the different possible elements
there may be in the chart of a bully, but I would be surprised if

Pluto/mars/Saturn wasn't involved as at least one aspect.

some significations of MARS

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


Mars is burning and drying, malefic, masculine and nocturnal.

...... Mars controls force
wrath
verbal abuse
hatred
torture
supremacists


Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #194  
Unread 08-05-2020, 06:51 PM
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Re: Bullying

Hi Jup,
One of the most infamous murders in the UK was the murder of a two year old boy by two ten year olds, i can't believe it, so shocking!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger
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  #195  
Unread 08-05-2020, 07:59 PM
Zeuses Zeuses is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
some significations of MARS
Hi yes I can imagine mars and also like I say Pluto and possibly Saturn too. Either as aspects in the chart of the bully or as transits for the poor person being bullied.
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  #196  
Unread 08-09-2020, 10:49 PM
Zeuses Zeuses is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Hi Jup,
One of the most infamous murders in the UK was the murder of a two year old boy by two ten year olds, i can't believe it, so shocking!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger
Isn't that murder as opposed to bullying as Jupiter pointed out bullying tends to be repetitive and doesn't necessarily involve violence. It can involve psychological harm as opposed to violence
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  #197  
Unread 08-09-2020, 11:07 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Bullying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuses View Post


Isn't that murder as opposed to bullying
arguably

murder is an extreme form of physical violence
not unusually preceded by bullying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuses View Post


as Jupiter pointed out bullying tends to be repetitive

and doesn't necessarily involve violence.

It can involve psychological harm as opposed to violence

nevertheless
bulllying may involve physical action

.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #198  
Unread 08-09-2020, 11:11 PM
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Re: Bullying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuses View Post


Hi yes I can imagine mars

Either as aspects in the chart of the bully
or as transits for the poor person being bullied.


Mars is burning and drying, malefic, masculine and nocturnal

...... Mars controls force
wrath
verbal abuse
hatred
torture
supremacists


Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #199  
Unread 08-10-2020, 12:52 AM
Zeuses Zeuses is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
arguably

murder is an extreme form of physical violence
not unusually preceded by bullying


nevertheless
bulllying may involve physical action

.
Indeed bullying can end up with violence and death, however, in the awful case quoted that all occurred within a couple of hours. Dreadful situation for that poor little boy and his parents.
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  #200  
Unread 08-10-2020, 12:56 AM
Zeuses Zeuses is offline
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Re: Bullying

I have only just noticed that this post is 12 years old, wow.
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