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  #1  
Unread 03-27-2019, 10:07 PM
Mere9991 Mere9991 is offline
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Natal placements of a narcissist

Out of curiosity, which natal placements and aspects would imply narcissism? According the Mayo clinic, narcissists typically:

Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerate achievements and talents
Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
Take advantage of others to get what they want
Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Be envious of others and believe others envy them
Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
Insist on having the best of everything for instance, the best car or office

At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:

Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior
Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change
Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection
Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation

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  #2  
Unread 03-31-2019, 03:01 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Natal placements of a narcissist

So...

You have hit on the way to find the narcissistic personality. Which is to find positions, aspects, etc that indicate the traits on the list. I know of no shortcuts.

The chart of "Mr DT" is readily available for practice.

Empathy and remorse are keys to distinction between garden variety narcissism and psychopathy.

Indicators are many and varied, and not limited to aspects.

For example, the Bowl pattern alone, as in the chart of the president, tells us:
Us/them; All/nothing; My way or the hiway (clear hemisphere division in addition to bowl;9 planets east.

And several more listed traits. See the thread where bowl traits are described.

Last edited by greybeard; 03-31-2019 at 03:15 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 03-31-2019, 04:43 AM
Alimal Alimal is offline
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Re: Natal placements of a narcissist

Sun in Air sign
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  #4  
Unread 03-31-2019, 06:50 AM
Alimal Alimal is offline
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Re: Natal placements of a narcissist

[deleted attacking post - Moderator]

Air signs live in an idealistic reality, an unevolved one is the definition of a narcissist. Not to be confused with hedonist.


Nothing against Air signs, I like them, they develop society with their ideas and clear thought.

Last edited by wilsontc; 06-12-2019 at 03:03 PM.
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  #5  
Unread 06-12-2019, 03:06 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Natal placements of a narcissist

Sorry. That sort of oversimplification doesn't wash.

Hitler had a stellium in Earth. Manson was Sun in Scorpio.

If we refer to the Hare Psychopathy Checklist (probably the same as the Mayo version), we find around 20 symptoms that when present in the aggregate point toward a narcissistic or psychopathic personality (a matter of degree, pivoting on empathy).

I have found no better way than to see if each of the symptoms is present in the chart, one by one.

Let's be realistic. We live in a psychopathic world. If we take the Checklist, we find that all corporations, virtually without exception, are psychopathic. The CEO must act psychopathically if he is to retain his position. The lower echelons must conform to the mandates of the head psychopath. The world is dominated by corporations...we live in a psychopathic world.

Psychopathy has no cure, no remedy. A question: does human society require the psychopath as the means to organization and progress?

Psychopathy is an extreme of insanity. But all of us are wounded psychologically; no one is exempt.

I am in my 78th revolution around the Sun. At this point in life one reflects.

And what I see is that all those defects and warts I thought I had overcome are still there. Yes, I have "changed", but the changes are largely superficial accommodation. We are incapable of any deep change under ordinary conditions. We are who we are, start to finish.

Last edited by greybeard; 06-12-2019 at 03:58 AM.
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  #6  
Unread 06-12-2019, 08:34 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Natal placements of a narcissist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mere9991 View Post
Out of curiosity, which natal placements and aspects would imply narcissism? According the Mayo clinic, narcissists typically:

Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerate achievements and talents
Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
Take advantage of others to get what they want
Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Be envious of others and believe others envy them
Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
Insist on having the best of everything for instance, the best car or office

At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:

Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior
Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change
Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection
Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation
I think that difficult aspects between the lights and outer malefics can set up narcissistic tendencies. Sun/Moon conjunct, square or opposed Sat and Neptune or Pluto for example. It can distort one's self perception and importance and block the ability to feel compassion or understanding.
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  #7  
Unread 06-12-2019, 10:05 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Natal placements of a narcissist

Our president is a gilt-edged psychopath. His public behavior and utterances meet all criteria. Many actions show a man devoid of empathy.

So his chart provides an excellent study.
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  #8  
Unread 06-13-2019, 02:47 AM
LiberatedLotus LiberatedLotus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Sorry. That sort of oversimplification doesn't wash.

Hitler had a stellium in Earth. Manson was Sun in Scorpio.

If we refer to the Hare Psychopathy Checklist (probably the same as the Mayo version), we find around 20 symptoms that when present in the aggregate point toward a narcissistic or psychopathic personality (a matter of degree, pivoting on empathy).

I have found no better way than to see if each of the symptoms is present in the chart, one by one.

Let's be realistic. We live in a psychopathic world. If we take the Checklist, we find that all corporations, virtually without exception, are psychopathic. The CEO must act psychopathically if he is to retain his position. The lower echelons must conform to the mandates of the head psychopath. The world is dominated by corporations...we live in a psychopathic world.

Psychopathy has no cure, no remedy. A question: does human society require the psychopath as the means to organization and progress?

Psychopathy is an extreme of insanity. But all of us are wounded psychologically; no one is exempt.

I am in my 78th revolution around the Sun. At this point in life one reflects.

And what I see is that all those defects and warts I thought I had overcome are still there. Yes, I have "changed", but the changes are largely superficial accommodation. We are incapable of any deep change under ordinary conditions. We are who we are, start to finish.
Greybeard,
How do you view the overlays within this particular construct in concert with astrology?

For example, statistically speaking, psychopathy is well off the charts, (psychological / cognitive "dysfunction" in general). Do you see these correlations within actual charts? Within the aggregate?
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  #9  
Unread 06-13-2019, 03:39 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Natal placements of a narcissist

If you mean, Are psychological conditions shown in the chart, the answer is "certainly".

Did I understand the question?
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  #10  
Unread 06-13-2019, 03:50 AM
LiberatedLotus LiberatedLotus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
If you mean, Are psychological conditions shown in the chart, the answer is "certainly".

Did I understand the question?
Yes. Is there astrological data to support how prolific psychopathy is within the aggregate of society? More importantly, why.

If one examines the factors that contribute to the manifestation of such states, if can easily be observed that government & it's constituents have engineered it to be as such.

How does one view such "overlays" within an astrological context?

Last edited by LiberatedLotus; 06-13-2019 at 03:55 AM.
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  #11  
Unread 06-13-2019, 07:34 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Natal placements of a narcissist

I don't know of studies along those lines.
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  #12  
Unread 06-13-2019, 09:51 AM
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ardentika ardentika is offline
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Re: Natal placements of a narcissist

I'd say Gemini. It's just Gemini shifts so fast from one thought to another, and they see all truths as equal, they see the yin and the yang as the same thing, that sometimes it makes them look so detached, even a bit psychopathic.

I read somewhere that most psychopatic murders were mutable signs. I can see that happening tbh.
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  #13  
Unread 06-14-2019, 01:37 AM
LiberatedLotus LiberatedLotus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
I don't know of studies along those lines.
Hypothetically speaking, if statistics were to show that 2.5 billion people exhibited symptoms of severe cognitive impairment, do you believe that every single one would have these aspects within their charts?

Similarly, that our "psychopathic world" is a direct manifestation of the heavens above?

To what degree does such energies actually manifest. What percentage would actually have such placements.

My apologies, I don't necessarily expect answers to these questions. They are simply notions I ponder from time to time.

Last edited by LiberatedLotus; 06-14-2019 at 04:48 AM.
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  #14  
Unread 06-14-2019, 07:02 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Natal placements of a narcissist

The horoscopic chart, if I choose to view it that way, is simply a mapping of the individual psyche. If "cognitive dysfunction" is present in the person it is present in the charting of the psyche.

Things are just as they are.

The present psychopathic world is where we happen to be in our evolutionary journey as a race as well as an event in the evolution of the cosmos.
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  #15  
Unread 06-14-2019, 07:14 AM
LiberatedLotus LiberatedLotus is offline
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Re: Natal placements of a narcissist

Nice, simple interpretation.
Thanks.
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