Interpreting Solar Return Charts

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Yes I want to look at the chart, that is why I asked for the gender of the native, to know whether to calculate the Lot of Marriage for Men or Women; which Universal Significator to use, Venus and Moon if the native is a man, or Sun and Mars if the native is a woman. Traditional Astrology makes these distinctions in delineating a chart.
I would go with assuming that the chart is that of a man, so we will see where will lead us :)

I will come back with the results.
Many thanks Omnisphericus - BobZemco's posts are clearly knowledgeable - however as an ex-Military man the somewhat terse. uncompromising/'no-nonsense' style met with disapproval and his comments were frequently deleted and so perhaps not unexpectedly he decided therefore to have a vacation! However BobZemco is a popular contributor on our forum, is very much missed and many of us think he may return! :smile:
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
For me, it was very problematic in the first place to delineate the chart of Professor Gumby as a chart which should show divorce in itself.
Ruler of 7th and Universal Significator for marriage in man's chart - Venus is not impeded by the malefics nor it is burned by the Sun's rays.
She is in its own triplicity + decan and not seriously afflicted.
Moon, the exalted ruler of 7th is making adherence (3 degrees applicative conjunction) to the greater benefic Jupiter in its own throne in trigon relationship with Venus while malefics are tamed in cadent houses quantitatively weak. I mean, where are the divorce indications? If something is not promised in the birth chart, thousands of Solar Returns can not bring it to you, the natal chart is the basis and we must seek for the indications for divorce in the natal chart.
If they are not there, then we have two options:
1. The chart is with wrong time of birth and needs to be rectified.
2. There are indications which our present knowledge of Astrology can't see them.

I think that it is the first one, and the chart needs to be rectified at least two degrees backward. Ascendant will then fall in 18 degrees Scorpio, and Saturn who is one of the greatest divorce makers will through an antiscia toward Scorpio, and contra-antiscia toward taurus, which would affect the Ac-Dc axis.

Furthermore, the Twelfth Part of Venus falls in Leo, in direct opposition to natal Saturn, opposition which according to Valens, and the other ancients, is one of the best indications eather for no marriage at all, either for divorce.

Again, Hephaistio says to look at the Trigon Lords of Venus.
They are Venus which rules from 0 to 25 years of life, Mars who rules from 25 to 50 and Moon who rules from 50 to the end of life.
Mars rules the period in question and he is quantitatively poor in cadent house and making superior square to Venus by sign.
Hephaistio says that if Venus itself is good situated but her trigon rulers in bad position or impeded, then the marriage will be good at first, but will turn in to evil.

Again, from the 41st year of life Mars rules by Ptolemaic Ages and also subrules the Firdaria in the period of question. And again, he is a divisor of the directed Ascendant.

I know that this is a discussion of the Solar Returns, I just wanted to add some thoughts on the natal chart itself, because in the end, we compare the solar return chart to the natal chart.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thank you Omnisphericus. There are currently discussions on Rectification on the forum and your interesting comments are helpful in that regard - although this particular thread, as you have said focuses exclusively on Solar Returns. However - basically, a Solar Return is intended to be considered WITH the natal as you have indicated!

I notice that BobZemco did seem disenchanted with solar returns :smile:

Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing when Professor Gumby will marry using an SR Chart. However, in another post on another thread, we showed where Primary Directions accurately gave the timing of Professor Gumby's marriage (which is another reason I don't bother wasting my time with SR Charts).

Although I suppose they could, I haven't see where dispositors play any relevant role in SR Charts and no one really covers the issue in any detail (and most don't even mention it)
.
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
I notice that BobZemco did seem disenchanted with solar returns

Well, everyone will find a technique which will be his favorite and some other technique which would seem that it want work. There are really lot of Time techniques, especially at this time when the Hellenistic Astrology is reviving continually thanks to Project Hindsight and other valuable sources, individual translators such as James Holden and etc.

Abu Mashar says in his On Revolution on Nativities, that ancient kings did not go into battle if their Solar Return charts shows defeat, or if the chart of the generals showed defeat they would replace them with some other general who had better Solar Return chart. This paraphrase on Abu Mashar is from Morin -the great French Astrologer who put great deal on Solar Returns.

Of course, if they are not relevant for a particular individual they are not relevant and period. But this does not seem that they don't work objectively.
I'm studying them in the moment and have found them as very valuable tool.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Well, everyone will find a technique which will be his favorite and some other technique which would seem that it want work. There are really lot of Time techniques, especially at this time when the Hellenistic Astrology is reviving continually thanks to Project Hindsight and other valuable sources, individual translators such as James Holden and etc.
I'm particularly interested at the moment with the Hellenistic solar Return which brings the solar return moon to the precise degree and sign of the natal moon WHEN THE SUN IS IN THE SIGN OF THE NATAL SUN BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE NATAL DEGREE OF THE NATAL SUN - did you ever investigate this technique? :smile:
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
I'm particularly interested at the moment with the Hellenistic solar Return which brings the solar return moon to the precise degree and sign of the natal moon WHEN THE SUN IS IN THE SIGN OF THE NATAL SUN BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE NATAL DEGREE OF THE NATAL SUN - did you ever investigate this technique? :smile:

I've not. What are the sources of this technique? :)
 

bernardette

New member
Dear Sir,
I am quite worried for a friend of mine. His next solar return has 6 planets including Sun and Moon in the first house along with the SR asc. According to some astrologers this could be very detrimental to his health, others say it is a year of personl empowerment. I am suggesting he relocate for his birthday. Am I helping him or ruining a year that could give him the stgrength he needs to overcome his problems
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
What orb is most appropriate to use aspects in the Solar return chart?

It depends on what style of analysis you want to use.
I can tell you my approach. I tend not to underestimate any astrology from the past. So I use Whole Sign House Aspects, that is, a plaet anywhere in Capricorn, is making sextile to a planet anywhere in Pisces.
Then, I would see if those two planets are inside the Moiety of Orbs, that is, their Orbs of Influence. For example, Saturn has Moiety of 9°, so in that diameter, every planet that touches that orb, Saturn is in particularly important relationship with it.
Furthermore, the aspect inside of 3° is particularly important and forceful. This comes from the earliest times of the Hellenistic Astrologers, where, even though whole sign aspects where considered, planet being inside 3° of orb, were regarded as very powerful in regards of configuration.
Especially if there is an application.
Then you have probably the most powerful aspect, that is, inside the same degree. So a planet in 24° Capricorn in sextile to a planet in 24° Pisces.
But to be clear, planet in 23° 59' and planet in 24° 2' are not as important as in being in same degree. Greek speaking astrologers called it "Moiria" and this is one of the words for Fate. So, we can see a basic methaphysical concept here, where planets being in same Moiria, share particular important mutual fate.

Knowing this, you are using it in your astrological skills package, and try to incorporate it in your astrological practice :)

Dear Sir,
I am quite worried for a friend of mine. His next solar return has 6 planets including Sun and Moon in the first house along with the SR asc. According to some astrologers this could be very detrimental to his health, others say it is a year of personl empowerment. I am suggesting he relocate for his birthday. Am I helping him or ruining a year that could give him the stgrength he needs to overcome his problems

I think I know where from this kind of approach comes. Ciro Discepolo, am I right?
He uses Stelliums in Solar Returns as something of great importance. It is not that it is not important, but according to traditional astrology, it all depends on what kind of rulership those planet has. Does they rule 6th, 8th, 12th? Or they rule 5th? If Venus rules 5th and is on the Ascendant in good zodiacal shape, why to be bad?
Also, it depends on what planet are activated through the Time Lord techniques, like Firdaria, Profections, and etc..

So it is not an easy reduction of a judgment on the stellium.

Just a note of caution. I am adding my personal traditional astrology approach here [in both answers].
I am not trying to set anything in stone.
 
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Sheridan

Member
I disagree to some degree about solar returns being felt 3 months before the event. I've seen it happen a little bit if the event is benign. My birthday is in August, and I graduated from college in May--as a benign example. But I feel the really bad stuff in November--3 months after my solar return.

I have an essay on Solar returns in my blog. So I won't have to chew my cabbage twice, I'll just supply the URL for the blog.

http://www.dgborkowski.blogspot.com/2013/05/making-solar-returns-sing-and-dance.html

~Sheridan
 

Ex Parrot

Member
Well, thank you for posting this, Bob Zemco. Because I just spent a few hours comparing my past solar returns (and those of other people whose life I know relatively well) with significant years in our lives. The correlation with the usual (and even some unusual) interpretations was NIL.

(You may - or may not - laugh about this anecdote, but I once told a professional astrologer who was adamant that solar returns most certainly do matter and impact people's lives just that: that there seemed to be no correlation between externally appreciable events and the usual interpretations for solar return aspects. She insisted that I - as well as my mother and all those other people - simply did not have the accurate times of our births. :whistling: Because her brand of astrology must be right, reality must be wrong.)

Anyway, very interesting article.
Thanks.
 

Arena

Well-known member
Well, thank you for posting this, Bob Zemco. Because I just spent a few hours comparing my past solar returns (and those of other people whose life I know relatively well) with significant years in our lives. The correlation with the usual (and even some unusual) interpretations was NIL.

(You may - or may not - laugh about this anecdote, but I once told a professional astrologer who was adamant that solar returns most certainly do matter and impact people's lives just that: that there seemed to be no correlation between externally appreciable events and the usual interpretations for solar return aspects. She insisted that I - as well as my mother and all those other people - simply did not have the accurate times of our births. :whistling: Because her brand of astrology must be right, reality must be wrong.)

Anyway, very interesting article.
Thanks.


You need to cast a solar return chart and correct it for precession. If you don't, you will not get any accurate answers. When you've accounted for precession, the chart becomes clear. You can do this by just casting your solar return in sidereal zodiac, it is going to show you accurate positions of the planets in your SR.
You then look at which planets come to angles of the SR chart and if they touch your natal angles. Then you look into the aspects the angular planets make, those will have most impact on you. Then you look at partile aspects within the SR chart, they will have an impact as well.
 

DaphneLore

Active member
In the SR Chart, we see that 27° Taurus is rising. When we look at the Natal Chart, we see that 27° Taurus is located in the Natal 7th House.

That means the 7th House has come to the Ascendant of the Natal Chart. The trend for the year will be relationships.

The 7th House opposes the 1st House. Opposition means conflict, balance or cooperation. When the 7th House comes to the Ascendant, it means marriage or divorce, or the end or beginning of a relationship, whether that relationship is personal, social or professional.

How can you tell the difference? Find the SR Ascendant Ruler. We see Venus in the SR Chart in the 12th House at 20° Aries. We then look at the Natal Chart and see that 20° Aries falls in the 5th House.

That would be a good indicator of a new relationship, especially marriage. As it stands, the signification of Venus in either Aries or Scorpio means marriage, but it can also mean a whole bunch of very negative things.

At 20° Aries, SR Venus is in partile sextile to Natal Mercury at 20° Gemini, and Mercury rules both the 7th House and 8th House in the Natal Chart.

It looks more and more like marriage, and that's what happened. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing when Professor Gumby will marry using an SR Chart. However, in another post on another thread, we showed where Primary Directions accurately gave the timing of Professor Gumby's marriage (which is another reason I don't bother wasting my time with SR Charts).

I read your post carefully and quickly analyzed my last 15 solar revolutions. I'm surprised. But unfortunately it seems that the next love opportunity will come in 2029, I will be over 50 years old, and for what? I'm devastated :(
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I read your post carefully and quickly analyzed my last 15 solar revolutions.
I'm surprised.
But unfortunately it seems that the next love opportunity
will come in 2029, I will be over 50 years old, and for what?
I'm devastated
:(
BobZemcos informative comments are very useful :smile:
unfortunately he has not posted for almost three years now
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
You need to cast a solar return chart and correct it for precession. If you don't, you will not get any accurate answers. When you've accounted for precession, the chart becomes clear. You can do this by just casting your solar return in sidereal zodiac, it is going to show you accurate positions of the planets in your SR.
You then look at which planets come to angles of the SR chart and if they touch your natal angles. Then you look into the aspects the angular planets make, those will have most impact on you. Then you look at partile aspects within the SR chart, they will have an impact as well.

Exactly :smile:
 

ellie04

Well-known member
IME events happened after or very near (like a few weeks) to my solar return, not months before like many said. I may start to feel the tremors before SR.

E.g. my birth in end-April. The year I left full-time work completely and became a freelancer it happened only in September (however, I started mulling about it months before my SR). The year I met my ex, I met him only in October. Another time I fell in love, we met 1 week before my SR and began our r/s 2 weeks after my SR.

When I met my ex-bf, SR Asc was in Gemini falling into natal 1st. SR Venus conjunct SR Mercury in Aries square SR Nodes. SR Mars in Taurus semi-sextile SR Venus/Mercury. SR Moon in Aquarius.

Aries rules my natal 11th. Venus rules my natal 5th and Jupiter rules my natal 7th. Mercury rules my natal Asc/IC.

Last year I met someone I deeply loved... SR Venus in Gemini conjunct natal Asc/South Node. SR Moon in Libra falling into natal 5th. SR Sun conjunct SR Dsc. SR Mercury conjunct natal Jupiter (natal 1st & 7th rulers).

This year I've my SR Asc falling into natal 8th. SR Pluto/SN/Saturn all falling into that house. SR Venus/Mercury/Chiron/PoF in Aries conjunct natal Jupiter. SR Mercury square Nodes. SR Jupiter falling into natal 7th conjunct natal Moon, opposite natal Venus. SR Mars in Gemini conjunct natal Venus.

The man I love deeply and I are parting which breaks my heart, but my SR 2019 seems to suggest romance so I don't get it. Perhaps I will meet someone new? :sad:

Btw why does SR Venus in Aries/Scorpio means marriage/relationship?
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
IME events happened after or very near (like a few weeks) to my solar return, not months before like many said. I may start to feel the tremors before SR.

E.g. my birth in end-April. The year I left full-time work completely and became a freelancer it happened only in September (however, I started mulling about it months before my SR). The year I met my ex, I met him only in October. Another time I fell in love, we met 1 week before my SR and began our r/s 2 weeks after my SR.

When I met my ex-bf, SR Asc was in Gemini falling into natal 1st. SR Venus conjunct SR Mercury in Aries square SR Nodes. SR Mars in Taurus semi-sextile SR Venus/Mercury. SR Moon in Aquarius.

Aries rules my natal 11th. Venus rules my natal 5th and Jupiter rules my natal 7th. Mercury rules my natal Asc/IC.

Last year I met someone I deeply loved... SR Venus in Gemini conjunct natal Asc/South Node. SR Moon in Libra falling into natal 5th. SR Sun conjunct SR Dsc. SR Mercury conjunct natal Jupiter (natal 1st & 7th rulers).

This year I've my SR Asc falling into natal 8th. SR Pluto/SN/Saturn all falling into that house. SR Venus/Mercury/Chiron/PoF in Aries conjunct natal Jupiter. SR Mercury square Nodes. SR Jupiter falling into natal 7th conjunct natal Moon, opposite natal Venus. SR Mars in Gemini conjunct natal Venus.

The man I love deeply and I are parting which breaks my heart, but my SR 2019 seems to suggest romance so I don't get it. Perhaps I will meet someone new? :sad:

Btw why does SR Venus in Aries/Scorpio means marriage/relationship?
SOLAR RETURN aka SOLAR REVOLUTION is based on NATAL
therefore
accurate timing of SR event is dependent on accurate timing of natal :smile:

also
solar return is not "stand alone" but is read based on PROFECTION
 
Hi Bob Zemco. Many thanks for the input on SR charts I understand your post from 2010 to say that the SR chart is most relevant/accurate when using the place of current place of residence .. versus the birth place. Is that correct? (in my case, I've lived in the same county for the last 15 years (with one move away in 2013 for 9 months) I moved from my birthplace (some 3,000 miles away) over 35 years ago.
 
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