Knee injury

Abby83 · Oct 14, 2015

Hello there,

So I have a reoccurring knee injury. I originally injured it going for a jog a year ago. Took 6 weeks of rest and ice and chiro trt before I could walk. Raising 3 toddlers makes it difficult for me to rest or get x-rays etc, so I just see the chiro and rest when possible.

My question is - What do I need to do to heal my knee?

In more detail, I want to know if resting and changing my lifestyle will be good enough, or if I need surgery.

Asc is early Capricorn signifying me, the bones, the knee, and it is in the 12th house of rest, which is what I'm doing. Saturn sextiles 10th house ruler mercury, which I think represents my chiropractor?

My desire (moon) is to be healthy enough to look after the kids (mars).

The communications in my home and family as well as my daily routines are causing a problem for me (Saturn square Neptune and venus). I cant change that. My mother keeps putting pressure on me to do more for my kids eg appts etc and I physically cannot do it all. She harasses me about not being able to take my son to his speech therapy sessions because of my knee. My husband is frustrated that I cant clean the house either. So that's definitely the Neptune there. I take it my lesson there is to still look after myself despite the pressures others are placing on me. I receive comments like you are such an awful mum, your son needs this and you wont even sacrifice your knee to do this for him. I'm going to try and stay strong and avoid buying into it. My chiro told me I need to be resting for weeks.

So I'm guessing that continuing the chiro treatment and resting will be enough. I don't see signs of surgery in the chart. Although, 8th house (surgery) ruler is moon, and makes good aspects to the family and children and husband.

rafaella · Oct 15, 2015

Abby83 said:
Hello there,

So I have a reoccurring knee injury. I originally injured it going for a jog a year ago. Took 6 weeks of rest and ice and chiro trt before I could walk. Raising 3 toddlers makes it difficult for me to rest or get x-rays etc, so I just see the chiro and rest when possible.

My question is - What do I need to do to heal my knee?

In more detail, I want to know if resting and changing my lifestyle will be good enough, or if I need surgery.

Asc is early Capricorn signifying me, the bones, the knee, and it is in the 12th house of rest, which is what I'm doing. Saturn sextiles 10th house ruler mercury, which I think represents my chiropractor?

My desire (moon) is to be healthy enough to look after the kids (mars).

The communications in my home and family as well as my daily routines are causing a problem for me (Saturn square Neptune and venus). I cant change that. My mother keeps putting pressure on me to do more for my kids eg appts etc and I physically cannot do it all. She harasses me about not being able to take my son to his speech therapy sessions because of my knee. My husband is frustrated that I cant clean the house either. So that's definitely the Neptune there. I take it my lesson there is to still look after myself despite the pressures others are placing on me. I receive comments like you are such an awful mum, your son needs this and you wont even sacrifice your knee to do this for him. I'm going to try and stay strong and avoid buying into it. My chiro told me I need to be resting for weeks.

So I'm guessing that continuing the chiro treatment and resting will be enough. I don't see signs of surgery in the chart. Although, 8th house (surgery) ruler is moon, and makes good aspects to the family and children and husband.

So its been a year and your knee is still not good? Perhaps you need to change doctors? Have you had xrays done?

Looking at the chart, your significator is Saturn in 12th, house of self undoing and illness. Your knee is ruled by Venus (10th house is thighs and knees, the next sign in 10th is knees specifically). Venus/Saturn square in the past shows the damage and knee is in fall, so your knee Venus (also ruling 6th house) is in real bad shape.

10th is also medication/treatment and there is mutual reception between 10th and 11th, so the treatment is helpful. Yet for some reason your significator Saturn is in detriment of Mercury (the treatment). Why is that? Have you followed your doctors advice? Or take the treatment or solutions you were adviced to?

It could also mean rejection of some treatments. Honestly, looking at that angular Mars and Jupiter, surgery may be another option. Moon separates from Mars and applies to angular Jupiter. Jup rules the intercepted 12th. 12th is where one gets treatments as well. Jup is also dispositor of Saturn.

I think at the very least you need to see another doctor, perhaps a knee specialist (orthopaedic doctor) to see if there is anything more to it.

Abby83 · Oct 16, 2015

Rafaella, it's so good to hear from you again. I love your advice everytime you give it!

I had an x-ray done yesterday. It showed nothing. I'm going to get an MRI tomoro. I pray to god it will show something because I seem to have bad luck when it comes to diagnostic tests. Meaning I end up having something that is not shown in the test so the doctors end up clueless.

I saw another doctor last night who said it may be a medial meniscus tear. Either way, that's not good. If it is that, then getting surgery may still not be great in the long run.

As for the treatment I have now - no I'm not taking any medications. All I'm doing is resting it, icing it, and I was planning to start mobilising it and doing rehab in a week. Ive seen the chiro who does ultra sound and taping but it doesn't help much. The knee is very weak. I have been doing mobility and strengthening of it for a year and yet it was so easy to injure.

rafaella · Oct 16, 2015

Abby83 said:
Rafaella, it's so good to hear from you again. I love your advice everytime you give it!

I had an x-ray done yesterday. It showed nothing. I'm going to get an MRI tomoro. I pray to god it will show something because I seem to have bad luck when it comes to diagnostic tests. Meaning I end up having something that is not shown in the test so the doctors end up clueless.

I saw another doctor last night who said it may be a medial meniscus tear. Either way, that's not good. If it is that, then getting surgery may still not be great in the long run.

As for the treatment I have now - no I'm not taking any medications. All I'm doing is resting it, icing it, and I was planning to start mobilising it and doing rehab in a week. Ive seen the chiro who does ultra sound and taping but it doesn't help much. The knee is very weak. I have been doing mobility and strengthening of it for a year and yet it was so easy to injure.

Thanks for updating. I do hope the MRI will reveal the issue. If indeed it is medial meniscus tear and it is a severe tear then surgery is appropriate, and minimally invasive. I found this https://www.physioadvisor.com.au/8792750/medial-meniscus-tear-torn-meniscus-physioadvis.htm

I do hope you won't need surgery, please let me know what happens.

Best wishes!

Abby83 · Oct 19, 2015

Well I'm really upset today.

I got the MRI results back today and it shows nothing. Nothing! Can you believe it. The story of my life. This always happens to me. I always have some kind of injury or illness that goes undiagnosed. I mean I cant even stand on the leg for goodness sake. Now the only thing I can think of is hoping that a physio might want to help me. It's definitely a medial problem because I cant bend my knee on that angle at all.

rafaella · Oct 19, 2015

Abby83 said:
Well I'm really upset today.

I got the MRI results back today and it shows nothing. Nothing! Can you believe it. The story of my life. This always happens to me. I always have some kind of injury or illness that goes undiagnosed. I mean I cant even stand on the leg for goodness sake. Now the only thing I can think of is hoping that a physio might want to help me. It's definitely a medial problem because I cant bend my knee on that angle at all.

oh no that's weird that not even MRI showed anything? Yeah I hope the physio can help you, perhaps also see an orthopaedic doctor, if you haven't already. They specialise in knee and hip area, so they might have some specific tests to figure out what it is.

The chart has early ASC showing perhaps there is much development before you will know how to heal your knee. Trying to figure out the Mars/Jp conjunction on MC, but I guess its the frustration and the unknown (Jup rules the intercepted 12th) and Saturn in the 12th as well.

Good luck!

Abby83 · Oct 19, 2015

I know. Like how annoying is it!

I say this because natally I have Saturn in the 12th house sextile mars.

When I was age 4, with T Saturn in the same place it is now (1st house), I had to get a ureter reimplantation as an unexpected emergency because they had no idea I was born with a dysfunctional ureter.
In 2005 (completely different transit), I finally got my tonsils out after three years of tonsillitis and doctors telling me that visibly there was nothing wrong with the tonsils, until they dissected it and saw the 'hidden' gunk inside.
With my chronic foot joint injury - I can never get a proper diagnosis on that, and it keeps coming back.
Now this. It feels like a curse, having planets in the 12th house. It's so incredibly time consuming to find a diagnosis and fix the problem. There is always something hidden and unknown to the matter.
The doctor says he presumes I must have medial collateral ligament tear. Lets hope he's right.

Abby83 · Oct 23, 2015

Hey I just want to say that I saw the physio and he says it's patellofemoral syndrome. Which isn't too bad. Im walking already and am much better. Im surprised it was something so simple. Anyway, even though the kids are demanding, let's hope this injury stays away.

rafaella · Oct 25, 2015

Abby83 said:
Hey I just want to say that I saw the physio and he says it's patellofemoral syndrome. Which isn't too bad. Im walking already and am much better. Im surprised it was something so simple. Anyway, even though the kids are demanding, let's hope this injury stays away.

Great! Finally a diagnosis and improvements! Im glad you are starting to recover...

Abby83 · Jan 5, 2016

To anyone who is still looking at this thread...

Unfortunately, the knee injury keeps coming back when doing simple tasks. This time it was from kneeling on the ground. The physio told me to get a referral to see a specialist. So I got referred and today I saw the orthopaedic surgeon. He told me that all my signs and symptoms would indicate the need for surgery, but the problem he has is that the scans show nothing but a teeny bit of inflammation in another part of the knee which doesn't hurt. So he told me I need to think about whether I want surgery, because the practical tests say yes, but the image tests say no. So now I don't know what to do. Do I do another horary? I asked myself the question "will surgery make my knee better," but I cant understand the chart well enough. So I don't know what to do. Im in pain everyday, unable to do basic activities such as vacuuming.

rafaella · Jan 5, 2016

Abby83 said:
To anyone who is still looking at this thread...

Unfortunately, the knee injury keeps coming back when doing simple tasks. This time it was from kneeling on the ground. The physio told me to get a referral to see a specialist. So I got referred and today I saw the orthopaedic surgeon. He told me that all my signs and symptoms would indicate the need for surgery, but the problem he has is that the scans show nothing but a teeny bit of inflammation in another part of the knee which doesn't hurt. So he told me I need to think about whether I want surgery, because the practical tests say yes, but the image tests say no. So now I don't know what to do. Do I do another horary? I asked myself the question "will surgery make my knee better," but I cant understand the chart well enough. So I don't know what to do. Im in pain everyday, unable to do basic activities such as vacuuming.

That's weird. I wonder if the inflammation in the other part of the knee causes you to overuse the muscles where the knee hurts in an improper way? Even though it doesn't hurt, the body might be over compensating in someway? I don't know if I make sense... :sideways:

I think surgery might be the option, as that Mars angular and Venus approaching it in 7 units may show timing. Venus translates between Saturn and Mars.

Post the new chart. Lets see!

Abby83 · Jan 5, 2016

rafaella said:
That's weird. I wonder if the inflammation in the other part of the knee causes you to overuse the muscles where the knee hurts in an improper way? Even though it doesn't hurt, the body might be over compensating in someway? I don't know if I make sense...

I think surgery might be the option, as that Mars angular and Venus approaching it in 7 units may show timing. Venus translates between Saturn and Mars.

Post the new chart. Lets see!

I know what you're saying about muscles over compensating, but my muscles were all massaged out by the physio and I still have the problem.

I've noticed you saying before that the mars being angular is good for surgery? I wish I knew more about astrology to know exactly what you mean by that position being good for surgery.

Do you want me to post the horary chart here?

Abby83 · Jan 5, 2016

Rafaella - you've also stated that 10th house ruler is venus, but 10th house ruler is mercury. And mercury makes no aspect to mars. But the 8th house ruler, moon, sextiles mars.

rafaella · Jan 5, 2016

Abby83 said:
I know what you're saying about muscles over compensating, but my muscles were all massaged out by the physio and I still have the problem.

I've noticed you saying before that the mars being angular is good for surgery? I wish I knew more about astrology to know exactly what you mean by that position being good for surgery.

Do you want me to post the horary chart here?

yes post it here.

Mars generally rules anything hot (burning) or sharp, cutting, surgery, knives, aggression...etc. 10th is for treatment. Mars at 10th cusp stands out. 10th also rules thighs and knees.

If you're hesitant, maybe seek another doctor with more experience.

Abby83 · Jan 5, 2016

Ok here it is. I asked if surgery will make my knee better. This specialist is meant to be the best. My dad saw him for his meniscus tear but his showed up on the scan. I've seen 3 other people besides him who all think it's meniscus as well.

Abby83 · Jan 6, 2016

I also would like to add that natally, I have mars in virgo 11th house sextile Saturn in scorpio 12th house. I'm sure this is good for surgery. My past surgeries have been very successful.

oleanna · Jan 6, 2016

Abby83 said:
I also would like to add that natally, I have mars in virgo 11th house sextile Saturn in scorpio 12th house. I'm sure this is good for surgery. My past surgeries have been very successful.

may i ask: you mean surgeries on the very same knee?
What irritated me is that a serious doctor would let you decide if there will be a surgery...? If he doesn't see what to do in a surgery why would he then open your knee?
Or did i misunderstand something?
I would rather follow Rafaella's advise and see another doctor before you make a decision.
best to you, Oleanna

rafaella · Jan 6, 2016

Abby83 said:
Ok here it is. I asked if surgery will make my knee better. This specialist is meant to be the best. My dad saw him for his meniscus tear but his showed up on the scan. I've seen 3 other people besides him who all think it's meniscus as well.

Ok the 2nd chart doesn't really show surgery, at least not immediately. Your significator is too weak, about to go rx, this may mean decision making is not going to be fruitful now.

Moon is void, no aspect until change of sign. Mercury rules the 7th, change of doctor? Mercury rx for the doctor is unsettling, Mercury has dignity by only face, so this doesn't show him knowing what to do being rx. Mercury changing signs into Cap where Jupiter is in detriment, so the doc may do more harm to you.

I think in a few months time you will see someone else, that may better able to help you. So hang in there. Hold off on surgery. I know you said this surgent is a specialist, but Im not seeing him being able to help you.

Adelaide is pretty small city, maybe fly to Melbourne or Sydney and see a doctor there? Just a thought.

cheers

Abby83 · Jan 6, 2016

oleanna said:
may i ask: you mean surgeries on the very same knee?
What irritated me is that a serious doctor would let you decide if there will be a surgery...? If he doesn't see what to do in a surgery why would he then open your knee?
Or did i misunderstand something?
I would rather follow Rafaella's advise and see another doctor before you make a decision.
best to you, Oleanna

He said if the mri showed something, it would be a definite yes. Seeing that 10% of the time mri's don't show what's there, it's up to me, for my own choice to get the arthroscopy to investigate further. In other words, he is hesitant in wasting both of our times, but knows there is a small chance the scans could be wrong. Esp. if all the signs say I have it and need surgery. I've already seen 4 people about this. Who else could I possibly see now?

Abby83 · Jan 6, 2016

rafaella said:
Ok the 2nd chart doesn't really show surgery, at least not immediately. Your significator is too weak, about to go rx, this may mean decision making is not going to be fruitful now.

Moon is void, no aspect until change of sign. Mercury rules the 7th, change of doctor? Mercury rx for the doctor is unsettling, Mercury has dignity by only face, so this doesn't show him knowing what to do being rx. Mercury changing signs into Cap where Jupiter is in detriment, so the doc may do more harm to you.

I think in a few months time you will see someone else, that may better able to help you. So hang in there. Hold off on surgery. I know you said this surgent is a specialist, but Im not seeing him being able to help you.

Adelaide is pretty small city, maybe fly to Melbourne or Sydney and see a doctor there? Just a thought.

cheers

So I keep getting responses saying that im weak and the knee is in real bad condition and treatment seems to be ineffective. So what now? I can't go back to the doctor/gp. He will just tell me to listen to the specialist. The doctor is in no position to give better advice. In cases like mine they send you to an orthopaedic specialist and that's what I did. Im glad you can see from the horary that this specialist cant help me, but who on earth can? Who else can I see about my knee. It definitely feels like meniscus to me. And I haven't heard of other treatments.

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