how to read significator in aspect with Asc ?

During the last months i had a few charts with a significator not aspecting another signif. but the Ascendent. By trine as well as by square.
- same for the moon.

I am not really sure how to read this and it seems to me as if i had not often seen this mentioned in other chart readings. so, it might be not important, - or is it??
I'd be grateful for help from more experienced members!
Thank you!

oleanna said:

During the last months i had a few charts with a significator not aspecting another signif. but the Ascendent. By trine as well as by square.
- same for the moon.

I am not really sure how to read this and it seems to me as if i had not often seen this mentioned in other chart readings. so, it might be not important, - or is it??
I'd be grateful for help from more experienced members!
Thank you!

Click to expand...

To some extent, it shows how much control the querent has over a question.

When the significators do not aspect the ascendant, the querent cannot "see" what is really happening and so has little to no control over the matter.

That can go show the querent's state of mind when one or both significators are in aversion to the ascendant. The querent is clawing thin ice.

When a significator aspects the ascendant, the querent can "see" what is happening and can influence the matter. The ability to influence can be weak (sextile), strong (trine), difficult (square), or often just makes matters worse (an opposition masculine signs) or can balance the equation (opposition feminine signs).

It is possible that if the significator does not aspect the ascendant, then another Star can reflect the light of the significator to the ascendant, which generally means the querent can influence the matter with the help of others.

oleanna said:

During the last months i had a few charts with a significator not aspecting another signif. but the Ascendent. By trine as well as by square.
- same for the moon.

I am not really sure how to read this and it seems to me as if i had not often seen this mentioned in other chart readings. so, it might be not important, - or is it??
I'd be grateful for help from more experienced members!
Thank you!

Click to expand...

oleanna, do you have an example chart?

Recently I saw a chart (the question was mine, posed to another astrologer) where the Moon was Void (like seriously void) and applying only to the ASC. It was a chart for a missing animial, none of the significators were coming together, it appeared as though the animal were dead, yet the Moon was applying to the ASC...almost as though the chart was saying the astrologer had no idea, it's all on the querent (me) to figure it out.

The animal was found, nowhere near where the usual suspects said it should be, and alive after six days with no food or water...and I did the finding.

Thanks a lot!
Just to make sure I understand you the right way:
No matter which of the main significators aspect the asc it will show the querents control?
As some kind of awareness?

cspencer said:

To some extent, it shows how much control the querent has over a question.

When the significators do not aspect the ascendant, the querent cannot "see" what is really happening and so has little to no control over the matter.

That can go show the querent's state of mind when one or both significators are in aversion to the ascendant. The querent is clawing thin ice.

When a significator aspects the ascendant, the querent can "see" what is happening and can influence the matter. The ability to influence can be weak (sextile), strong (trine), difficult (square), or often just makes matters worse (an opposition masculine signs) or can balance the equation (opposition feminine signs).

It is possible that if the significator does not aspect the ascendant, then another Star can reflect the light of the significator to the ascendant, which generally means the querent can influence the matter with the help of others.

Click to expand...

How interesting! - and I'm happy for the little tough creature!
I will post the chart tomorrow. Right now it's very late here...
Thank you for now!

tsmall said:

oleanna, do you have an example chart?

Recently I saw a chart (the question was mine, posed to another astrologer) where the Moon was Void (like seriously void) and applying only to the ASC. It was a chart for a missing animial, none of the significators were coming together, it appeared as though the animal were dead, yet the Moon was applying to the ASC...almost as though the chart was saying the astrologer had no idea, it's all on the querent (me) to figure it out.

The animal was found, nowhere near where the usual suspects said it should be, and alive after six days with no food or water...and I did the finding.

Click to expand...

oleanna said:

Thanks a lot!
Just to make sure I understand you the right way:
No matter which of the main significators aspect the asc it will show the querents control?
As some kind of awareness?

Click to expand...

I like "awareness."

Sometimes you have total control, at other times, you control over a situation is limited for one reason or another. Maybe you rely on a 2nd Party involved, or maybe there's a 3rd Party involved.

I know people are used to thinking about matters in terms of people, but matters can be things as well.

"Will my business trip be successful?" "Will my vacation turn out well?"

Not if you take ill or get injured.

Money is another issue, so often it isn't people that hinder you, it's "things" and you don't always have control over those things.

That's why we look to see what Places the Stars are in aversion.

Suppose you have a 10th Place issue, and the significator is in the 9th Place, it trines the ascendant but is in aversion to the 10th Place. So you have control over you, but not the matter concerned with the 10th Place.

tsmall said:

Recently I saw a chart (the question was mine, posed to another astrologer) where the Moon was Void (like seriously void) and applying only to the ASC. It was a chart for a missing animial, none of the significators were coming together, it appeared as though the animal were dead, yet the Moon was applying to the ASC...almost as though the chart was saying the astrologer had no idea, it's all on the querent (me) to figure it out.

Click to expand...

Usually if signficators aren't coming together, I look for translation, collection or reflection. Failing that, I look for other forms of reception.

Maybe Moon was in a commanding sign and the other significator in an obeying sign, or signs agreeing in ascensions.

cspencer said:

I like "awareness."

Suppose you have a 10th Place issue, and the significator is in the 9th Place, it trines the ascendant but is in aversion to the 10th Place. So you have control over you, but not the matter concerned with the 10th Place.

Click to expand...

I see, yes, that makes perfect sense!
And adds another perspective to what i try to see in a chart. I'm a real beginner, and many things confuse me, - or make me feel very insecure in my judgement. sometimes i "feel" what the chart contains, but can not really explain it. (that's a new thing, that grew over the last few months, and i take it as a positive sign, although i still lack tons of knowledge and studying goes very slow somehow.)
So aversion is something i am not really aware of, - and i hope this will change from now! Thank you.

tsmall said:

oleanna, do you have an example chart?

Click to expand...

So, i managed to find some time between all family that is visiting me these days, and put up the 2 charts that are just by hand.

no 1 is my own question about my former partner, a long term relationship of 10 years, who stopped being in contact with me. Now a friend of mine had told me they had talked and he had mentioned he planned to get in touch with again. (which i would love, since i have only good feelings for him, not much to regret or forgive so far).
Late Asc, - hm, it's been still for a while, maybe it's too late for to hope for contact?
Here am i, Saturn retrograde, in the 9th, ruled by Mars, just before changing signs.
Retrograde, yes, a bit sentimental about the past maybe.
Neptune in the 1st...
Mars is in 4 as well, close to the sun, combust on the way to separate from Sun. (I was the one who finished the marriage, but he had hurt me at the end and couldn't forgive me the independancy i showed)
Moon is in 6, ruled by the sun!
Sun is in 4, ruled by Mercury, well, at home, in his family, as far as i know, also his 10th house... ? or simply 4th, all matters end?
Now, while Saturn squares the Asc, Sun is in an applying trine.



no 2 is a question one of my friends had sent by email and i opened it and made a chart early morning, after a derniere party in Austria.
- My friend, a woman, had spent the night with a man she felt in love with but wasn't really sure about how deep the feelings on his side would be, - and not even how profound her own interest would be.
She was free at that time, he was at the end of a miserable relationship, and seemed to be very passionate with her, - but the situation was not stable.
I can see herself (Mercury) in conjunction to the Asc. - and the moon very closeby, but hidden in the 12th.
I understood that back then as she is sure about her feelings for him, but can't show them.
I didn't know how to read the applying conjunction between moon and mercury.
He, Jupiter, in the 2nd. Possessive? Hm, i knew that she said he wanted a woman to be at his side, more or less devoting her life to him, - my friend is not like that. she is a bit older than the guy and is running her own business, pretty ambitious. she is attractive and travels a lot, and he was surely not able to "possess" her.
Jupiter in the domicile of moon, - hm. I feel too stupid here to really make up my mind about this.
Reception as well seemed to show she (moon) is receiving him, but he does not so towards her.

I am afraid over all i make it too complicated, and of course don't see major things, which would make my little concern about aspects with the ASC unimportant. But i try to learn step by step. and asking these things is obviously one step on the way. Forgive, if this all is too stupid... and thank you anyway for the time you take!

So here they are, no1 and no2:

oleanna, those are some mighty big houses your chart has! I think when you have two full signs intercepted it is very wise to favor using signs as places/houses vs. house cusps...

oleanna said:

no 1 is my own question about my former partner, a long term relationship of 10 years, who stopped being in contact with me. Now a friend of mine had told me they had talked and he had mentioned he planned to get in touch with again. (which i would love, since i have only good feelings for him, not much to regret or forgive so far).
Late Asc, - hm, it's been still for a while, maybe it's too late for to hope for contact?

Click to expand...

Late ASC usually means the querent already knows the answer, or things are so far advanced that the outcome can't be changed.

oleanna said:

Here am i, Saturn retrograde, in the 9th, ruled by Mars, just before changing signs.

Click to expand...

Right, and Saturn is retrograding from the 11th sign, where the MC is, back to the 10th

oleanna said:

Retrograde, yes, a bit sentimental about the past maybe.

Click to expand...

Perhaps, but I think you are going to get over it and be concerned with your current status.

oleanna said:

Neptune in the 1st...

Click to expand...

Is completely irrelevant.

oleanna said:

Mars is in 4 as well, close to the sun, combust on the way to separate from Sun. (I was the one who finished the marriage, but he had hurt me at the end and couldn't forgive me the independancy i showed)

Click to expand...

Mars is the reason he isn't going to get in touch with you after all. He is combusting Mars, the ruler of his turned 4th place.

oleanna said:

Moon is in 6, ruled by the sun!

Click to expand...

Moon is in the 7th place, along with two other planets...has he remarried?

oleanna said:

Sun is in 4, ruled by Mercury, well, at home, in his family, as far as i know, also his 10th house... ? or simply 4th, all matters end?

Click to expand...

The fourth isn't the end or outcome of every matter. That was a mistranslation of a misunderstanding of a Lilly translation. Sun is in his turned 5th sign, close enough to the IC with those houses to allow us to consider his turned 4th, and is still combusting Mars.

oleanna said:

Now, while Saturn squares the Asc, Sun is in an applying trine.

Click to expand...

In horary, we want to look at what the Moon will do next. I see why you asked about this chart, but it is an entirely different situation than my prarie dog.

Your significators aren't coming together on their own, and there isn't a planet that can translate or collect the light to bring them together. Moon applies to a conjunction with Venus and then Jupiter. Actually what Moon is going to do is delay Venus from conjuncting Jupiter before moving on to square Saturn.

Thank you so much for taking the time!

Would you always use signs for places/houses when houses are intercepted?
I was asking how to read intercepted houses a while ago here in the forum, but had used wrong terms for it and got no answer-so this is really interesting for me.
Often there seems to be a meaning in the intercepted signs, but this might be taking it too psychlogical.

He is with a new Woman. I have remarried, - my question was not a Hiddensee if we'd get together again.it was truly about being in contact again, so to say as will we get a chance to become Friends?

Also, very enlightening to hear about the 4th house meaning. I get often confused with it. so end of the matter is not to be used for the fourth?

So for my over-all-question how to read aspects with the asc this isn't a valid example.
Is the 2nd chart working for the question?
I wonder is there a general importance , as for aspects between significators , when the asc is aspected by a significator or the Moon?

Again, i am grateful for the time you spend! Thank you

oleanna said:

Thank you so much for taking the time!

Would you always use signs for places/houses when houses are intercepted?
I was asking how to read intercepted houses a while ago here in the forum, but had used wrong terms for it and got no answer-so this is really interesting for me.

Click to expand...

I have found that using/counting signs works better for determining the significators in the question, regardless of whether or not the signs are intercepted.

oleanna said:

Often there seems to be a meaning in the intercepted signs, but this might be taking it too psychlogical.

Click to expand...

I think there is meaning in intercepted signs. A recent example from the forum...

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85306

oleanna said:

He is with a new Woman. I have remarried, - my question was not a Hiddensee if we'd get together again.it was truly about being in contact again, so to say as will we get a chance to become Friends?

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It didn't seem to be indicated in the chart. Have you heard from him?

oleanna said:

Also, very enlightening to hear about the 4th house meaning. I get often confused with it. so end of the matter is not to be used for the fourth?

Click to expand...

Lilly said that the 4th is the "end of the matter" in lawsuits and nothing else. Personally, I believe that if the 4th house always shows the outcome of charts there would be no need to look at anything else, right? But it doesn't and that's why we need to learn how to read the whole chart and not just the 4th house.

oleanna said:

So for my over-all-question how to read aspects with the asc this isn't a valid example.
Is the 2nd chart working for the question?

Click to expand...

Not really. I think you are not asking the right question. Not for the chart but for learning what role the ASC plays in horary.

oleanna said:

I wonder is there a general importance , as for aspects between significators , when the asc is aspected by a significator or the Moon?

Click to expand...

In any chart, horary or natal or event, having the significators regarding the ASC is a good thing. A planet in a sign that can't see the ascendant has no control over the situation. This is what the texts mean when they say "cadent from the ASC." In the second chart you posted the querent's significator is retrograde on the ASC, meaning even though she is in a sense debilitated she has great power to act/cause something to happen.

The first step in chart reading is to understand the question, so that you are able to find the significators. Every one eventually develops his or her own method of analysis, but a good next step is to look at and evaluate the signifying planets in their own right before looking at the aspects they make or don't make to each other.

Since the second chart was cast a year ago you probably already know the outcome. Maybe if you try working backwards, that is, knowing what happened see if you can find it in the chart, it will help in the future.

Thank you so much Tsmall, - i will work through your comments later tonight. Just, - for the 2nd chart and it's outcome, - it looked for a while as if my friend had found love. Or it felt at least for her that way. - Then there had been a sort of sudden end 5 months later.
but as far as i understood her, she still thinks it has been love, and it has been serious from both sides. -


It will be very helpful to look at some charts in respect of the advices you give. Thank you!
I always used the cusps of the houses and never "just" counted. Maybe that's a new thing i should try to do. I felt the other way around, that the size of houses made it more special, - but maybe that's nonsense.
I shall sit and see.

Thanks a lot!