How astrology works.

AquarianRising

Well-known member
In my typical fashion, I'm taking forever to get around to it, but I've planned on making a video series utilizing "nudge theory" to help the resistant majority of Westerners to accept and comprehend the fundamentals of astrological theory and practice. But among the things I planned on tackling were the misconceptions that not only non-astrologers but also the vast majority of astrologers, themselves, have regarding our own topic of interest.

One such subject of miscomprehension is the "how" of the topic's mechanisms. We've got a metric butt-load of ideas swirling around, many of them inherently untestable (since that's how Piscean-minded communists avoid direct destruction of their fanciful imaginings) and some of them at least based on practical science, even though they're often torn to shreds by leading astronomers within months of said ideas going mass-media.

Fact is, the mechanisms are at least indirectly observable in the very multi-millennia-long generation of the practice itself, and directly observable with a bit of applied mathematics which I couldn't do to save my life. But to understand what these proposed mechanisms are, we first have to look at how astrology was created. Thankfully, we've got oodles of records on that subject, so we know that the earliest astrologers would take notes about the location of certain immediately observable celestial bodies (Venus as the "Dawn Star," for example) and then they would try to attach a correlation between the body's position and terrestrial events.

As time goes on, we develop more powerful telescopes, we use those telescopes to observe more distant bodies, thus adding to our set of available variables, and the more variables we located, the more terrestrial events we were able to attach correlations to celestial bodies. Of course, then we began to predict the movements of these bodies, and sh!t got real crazy real fast. Suddenly, we were able to determine the locations and orbits of bodies even when we couldn't see them, and that opened up whole new avenues for correlation and interpretation.

Contemporary scientists like to deride modern astrology as being an invention of modern astrologers, playing at being rational beings and mimicking scientific models. (Clearly, they've never attended a symposium on sociology and astrology being used to comprehend and positively affect modern trends. Nor would they entertain the notion that such a thing exists, I suspect.) Unfortunately, astrological theories that emphasize the fact that most astrologers have no concept of how these things work only serve to malign our entire practice even further. They see astrologers explaining the subject's mechanisms using religious or spiritual concepts and it only makes us all look like idiots. That needs to stop.

Anyway, I'm digressing quite a bit, here. I'll simply jump to the conclusion and backpedal to tie it to the earlier observations. Astrology is a statistical model of prognostication, little different from anything used on Wall Street. (Except for... y'know, astrology actually works.) It was created as a statistical model from its very inception, that is to say, those early astrologers were trying to match the likelihood of events recurring at points in time consistent with certain celestial variables. That. Is. Statistics. End of discussion, albeit I'm obviously going to explain more points to underscore the validity of my hypothesis.

A statistical model of understanding astrological mechanisms has a few major advantages, including it's aversion to reliance on physical models of science (keeping it entirely abstract unshackles the subject from a need to assert scientific claims that have thus far borne no weight), it's historically context-appropriate foundation, and the fact that numbers don't f*ckin' lie. Except when tyrants mess with them.

So, look, I realize there are a lot of spiritualists that take part in these forums. Even religious types. With all due respect, your ideologies are on the way out. If you believe astrology is practical and capable of teaching us deep truths about ourselves (and you probably wouldn't be here if you didn't) then you have to accept that your listless, unfocused, undercooked and quite possibly "baked" ideologies are on the way out the door. This isn't a time for irrationality, for make-believe or for sentimentality and "schools" of fishy thinking. The Piscean Age needs to die before the Aquarian Age can begin in earnest, and that requires that "we" as humans begin to approach our individual comprehensions of reality in a way consistent with... reality.

Continue to immerse astrological discussion is spiritual anachronisms and this universally beneficial practice will die when the Water-Bearer officially enters the scene. There's no room in the coming Age for B.S. It will demand truth, facts, and integrity of observation, not the sort of fluffy-minded bull patties we've been collectively stuffing our heads with for the past two thousand-plus years. It's time for humanity to grow up. Again... Some more. And since humanity is, inherently, a collective effort, that means that astrologers and those who represent the metaphysical community to what you might term the "outside world" need to begin admitting when they don't know what the eff they're talking about and stop making up explanations based on whatever cockamamie, possibly alcohol- and psychotropics-fueled fantasy they've dreamed up.

It's incredibly damaging to our mutual efforts to bring this sort of benefit to a larger audience when we can't keep our story consistent and rational. The world needs a deeper look at itself right now, people. It needs facts and insight, not more imaginary polarization and victimhood. These are things astrology could easily provide it, but not if we're too busy debating whether or not feng shui could be used to help people relive their past lives so they can erase karmic debts so they can move on to Heaven when the comet Wormwood launches them into the sky to meet Jesus-Buddha-Muhammed-Vishnu-Easter Bunny.

If you "believe" in astrology (as though the alternative were even an option once you take an honest look at the subject and yourself) then you know the Aquarian Age is on its way in, and you know what it represents. Break your mold, step up, make a change and set reality as your central focus. There's no resisting Change. Embrace the sh!t and benefit from it.

(Also, point me to a decent and intellectually honest/curious statistician, so I can get an initial draft of a study on astrological statistics going. I'm only a savant, not a mathematician.)
 
Seeing as the purpose of this forum is research, what are the statistical research findings that fuel your assertions that astrology works? Which findings give you the most confidence? I think that would be a more useful jumping off point for discussion.
 

AquarianRising

Well-known member
Seeing as the purpose of this forum is research, what are the statistical research findings that fuel your assertions that astrology works? Which findings give you the most confidence? I think that would be a more useful jumping off point for discussion.

No pre-existing research that I'm aware of. This is an observation fueled by nothing more than hard logic and intuitive direction. The request at the bottom (in parenthesis) is meant to attain some assistance in beginning the very research necessary to prove my hypothesis. (A hypothesis I have quite a lot of confidence in, obviously, and for good reason.)

If you know some statisticians with an open enough mind and sufficient curiosity to explore a new angle on an old debate, I'd appreciate the hand.

ADDENDUM:
In particular, an individual with experience in chaos theory would be extremely helpful. I lament that my circle of contacts is non-existent in these areas.
 
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Well, in that case, it seems that you've sandwiched yourself against two groups you have major problems with: astrologers for being too spiritual and "Piscean", and scientists for being skeptics. You might have to make accommodations to get anywhere with either of them.

As I'm sure you know, modern science doesn't take astrology seriously because it is unaware of any mechanism that would produce "astrological" effects. It also hasn't acknowledged any statistical evidence as mind-blowing enough to be proof. You can try to find a theoretical framework as per the former, but most people in this area go for the nuts-and-bolts, which is statistical evidence.

It's a lot harder to define what you think astrology shows than it is to be an astrology believer. If you're not a researcher, data scientist, or programmer, that's OK, but just try to think of exactly how you would measure astrological effect. What do you think changes as a result of what? If your answer is psychological or relates to personality, consider how you would test this.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Aquarian Rising, this thread at Astrodienst on causality (explanation) in astrology is now in its 62nd page and still going on. It's a lot to read by now, but you might find it interesting.

https://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1495746510/0

After about page 20 it morphed from the OP question of how astrology works (assuming it does at some level) to what types of astrology might work and whether astrology as a whole works.
 

AquarianRising

Well-known member
Well, in that case, it seems that you've sandwiched yourself against two groups you have major problems with: astrologers for being too spiritual and "Piscean", and scientists for being skeptics. You might have to make accommodations to get anywhere with either of them.

As I'm sure you know, modern science doesn't take astrology seriously because it is unaware of any mechanism that would produce "astrological" effects. It also hasn't acknowledged any statistical evidence as mind-blowing enough to be proof. You can try to find a theoretical framework as per the former, but most people in this area go for the nuts-and-bolts, which is statistical evidence.

It's a lot harder to define what you think astrology shows than it is to be an astrology believer. If you're not a researcher, data scientist, or programmer, that's OK, but just try to think of exactly how you would measure astrological effect. What do you think changes as a result of what? If your answer is psychological or relates to personality, consider how you would test this.

"Science" is a blanket-term. It doesn't refer to individuals, and individuals can make choices independent of group consensus. I'm aware that the vast majority of contemporary scientists have an enormous amount of bias on the subject, and I'm also certain they have sufficient reason for it, at least given how many of the practice's less-experienced supporters tend to eat their own feet when discussing it with "outsiders". There's no consensus on credentialing among astrologers, making it almost impossible for outsiders to know when they're talking to an expert or a novice enthusiast, or even to know that experts exist.

The rules for astrological interpretation are a lot more hard-and-fast than, for example, psychology, which I routinely hear people in the STEM community refer to as a "soft" science. (Yet a science, nevertheless.) Psychology has the official stamp of approval, so I'm not sure where this lack of faith in astrology's provability stems from. If you can sufficiently validate your observations of an entirely imperceptible phenomenon taking place exclusively inside the mind of a human being using nothing more than intuitive, deductive reasoning and a few pointed questions, it should be a welcome reprieve from the complexities of fishing that all out to simply sit back and use well-defined rules to match up and/or predict directly-observable events in our shared reality.

This is not so much a question of how can the information be proven reliable, but how to slip past the mental blockades the contemporary scientific community has erected around itself. The sciences are not staffed by omniscient beings. It's staffed by regular humans of limited perception. Science was invented by ideological rebels and free-thinkers unrestrained by conventional sociological standards. They simply need to be reminded of that, and I've got no issue cutting them off at the knees to bring their heads back down out of the clouds. It's easier to do than you might think, albeit it's pointless if I haven't got the weight of tangible evidence resting in my hands.

All I need is a competent and willing mathematician. I can handle the rest of the sociological roadblocks on my own. Stubborn people can be broken. It's simply a matter of locating an appropriate fracture-point.
 

AquarianRising

Well-known member
Aquarian Rising, this thread at Astrodienst on causality (explanation) in astrology is now in its 62nd page and still going on. It's a lot to read by now, but you might find it interesting.

https://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1495746510/0

After about page 20 it morphed from the OP question of how astrology works (assuming it does at some level) to what types of astrology might work and whether astrology as a whole works.

I appreciate it. I'll take a gander at it right now.
 
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