Is Jupiter really that benefic??

Mist Knacker

Well-known member
[deleted response to attacking comment - Moderator]

I don’t know what kind of astrology you practice but I have never heard of terms such as Fidaria, Pitted Degrees and Azieme Degrees. I’m a modern western astrologer and just because I don’t use these specific methods in my predictive work does not mean I haven’t “bothered” to interpret my own chart!

How can you say I’m going to have a “rough go of it” up until 2031??? What a horribly damaging thing to say to someone! Actually if you’d “bothered” to read one of the updated posts you’d have seen that things have improved greatly for me over the past few months, Jupiter has brought me huge relief and the depression has lifted. And by the way you’re also wrong about my eyes and health…I have always had 20/20 vision and have no health problems what so ever , ive only been to see my doctor twice in my entire life.
I went ahead and did your chart through Jagannatha Hora, a Vedic astrology program. Vedic astrology uses the sidereal zodiac (the actual constellations). So, there is a 23-24 degree difference in the sign placements between that and the tropical one. However, the geometrical alignments between the planets and other bodies are the same.

You are currently still going through Shani sade sati (Saturn sade sati - 7.5 years). This is the period when Saturn transits the 12th, 1st, and 2nd Houses from your natal Moon. These years are often marked by a lot of difficulties, hardships, and this can include depression. However, the level of difficulty depends on the functional nature of Saturn in your chart. This is determined mainly by:
lagna (ascendant), moon sign
your natal Saturn placement

The number of bindus that Saturn gives in those three signs also factors in. At least 4 points is considered good by most. In your chart, Saturn gives only 1 bindu for the signs Leo and Virgo (1st and 2nd Houses from the Moon, respectively). Saturn in your natal chart is also placed in an inimical sign (Leo).

Your Saturn sade sati will end middle of November this year. At this time, Saturn enters into sidereal Libra and goes into the 3rd House from your Moon. This transit is generally considered auspicious. Saturn gives 6 bindus for the Libra sign in your chart. So, things should be better by then.

Here is more on Saturn sade sati.
http://cafejyotish.com/?p=80

Back early this past May, Jupiter entered into the 9th House from your Moon and the 1st House from your ascendant. Could this have been when you experienced some relief?

For Aries ascendant, Jupiter, along with Mars, Sun, and Moon, is a functional benefic, and you have Jupiter in Leo, which is a friendly sign for it.

You began your Moon dasa on March 27 of this year. It lasts until 2021. Your Moon is in a friendly sign and forms two Raja Yogas; one with Mars and another one with Jupiter.

Here is a page about Raja Yogas.
http://cafejyotish.com/?p=631

One aspect I see is a Moon/Rahu conjunction. According to this page (which discusses about Rahu and Ketu in general), it is linked to mental disturbance. So, that's one to be attentive to, especially during the Rahu sub-dasa.

http://www.johnhayes.biz/Articles/ArticlesVedic.htm

Here is a page that discusses about the dasa system.
http://vedicastrologycenter.net/dasasystem.html
 
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Mist Knacker

Well-known member
I have Jupiter in Virgo retro in 8th house well aspected and I like researching details, not overly extrovert but am lucky with joint/other people's finances :smile:
retrograde energy seems to be more internal, than external and gives an *inner confidence* that everything will be ok

I have found this to be true, over last few months I have succumbed to weight gain, now in taurus and about to go over my taurean planets and starting a strict diet :andy:

Think lot depends on which house your sun is in? for me it's 4th house, but am hoping to travel soon.
In Placidus houses, it's in the 8th house within 5 degrees of the 9th House. In Equal houses, it's in the 8th house.

In my Vedic chart, it's in the 9th House.
 
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bigblack

@queenfluff

I said you would not like it!!

I get my info not from traditional western astrology but from magi-astrology that was developed in china, I think in the fifteenth century.

Yes its contradictory to western astrology and many a western astrologer trained in the traditional western way has a knee-jerk reaction to this, but I have studied it and it correlates to events in my life. Actually according to magi its neptune that is the planet of the real and long term events.

I never actually said "bad luck", its just an ending that I mentioned.

Good luck with it.
 
In Placidus houses, it's in the 8th house within 5 degrees of the 9th House. In Equal houses, it's in the 8th house.

In my Vedic chart, it's in the 9th House.
So where do you *feel* it belongs ie: house? :annoyed:

There is a higher and a lower energy available in all the aspects. It all depends on free will and each individual's personal state of spiritual growth.

bigblack does have some unconventional ideas/approaches to astrology, but this is a learning forum and we are ALL free to take on board or ignore members advices/ideas/theories etc.

Regarding T Saturn conj Jupiter, this can create a see-saw effect or "shall I, shan't I" attitude as jupiter wants expansion and saturn wants hard work and limitations.

This is a time when you may have to slow down expansion and be more cautious. It may be that you feel that you have overextended yourself financially or otherwise. You may feel repressed and want to rebel against restrictions. Often this is an indication of a change of employment or residence. The demands of a job or loss of income may have you withdrawing from social activity for a while. Watch a tendency to feel depressed of get pessimistic about your prospects. Spiritually, you may experience a crisis of faith.
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/transits/saturn-cj-jupiter.html

You may also find with T Saturn in 11th house that Saturn wants to test which friendships are of value/working and which are not

Saturn Transits Through Your Eleventh House: Saturn transits can get rid of things we think we need but really don’t. Friends, who really aren’t friends, will tend to show their true colors now. Let them go. Good friends can also go out of your life at this time. Saturn rules the end of cycles. As far as the friends who remain, you may be too busy to spend much time with them. Or they may be too busy.
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/transitsSaturn18.4.htm
On the other hand, they may have extra problems and ask for your help. The same is true for your hopes and wishes. Some of those may be obsolete and need to be changed. The 11th House also shows how we deal with Groups of people. If you belong to a team at work, or some sort of club or organization, Saturn could bring out problems, difficulties, or extra responsibilities. Maybe the group changes and it’s not fun any more. You can also get a promotion at work or get elected to an office in a club. This means more work and responsibility. Saturn benefits are frequently bittersweet.
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/transitsSaturn18.4.htm
 

AdAstra

Member
hi queenfluff
You may not want to hear this, and I am sorry for bringing it up, but felt I should, but there is another interpretation concerning saturn and specifically jupiter-saturn contact. Basically this is not good as a lot of astrologers will say and swear to and argue for. This is a clash. Think about it - two opposing principles coming together.

Hello,

well, I would say it obviously depends a LOT on all sorts of mysterious influences, because in my personal experience - I've gone and checked right now - the conjunctions of Jupiter and Saturn have been completely innocuous, to the point of being "boring". In other words, nothing memorable happened on those occasions, nothing whatsoever - not "good", not "bad". And I have had relatively dramatic a life.

I was born with a Saturn/Jupiter conjunction, BTW.
 
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bigblack

@AdAstra - you are right. I think queenfluff pointed out "I have had some transits that were supposed to be bad but nothing bad happened and i had some that were supposed to good but bad things happened - I had some where nothing should have happened much at all and very bad things happened."

Astrology is very imprecise. It just goes to show that we are all clutching at straws.

And BTW a saturn/jupiter contact in the birth chart is not that bad - if indeed bad at all. I am sure they say that nothing in the birth chart is bad - just all gifts from god.

For myself more recently - but not that recently - when saturn was coming to the end of virgo, it quincunxed my saturn/mercury conj at 27 of aqu. I had a telephone conversation with someone I knew. She told me something that was not nice, and sent a shiver down my back. It was a reality (or not) check. Later saturn moved on and now was quincunxing her jupiter at the begining of taurus. We had another - and last - telephone conversation. A number of angry emails were sent. This time I gave her a reality check when I told her my situation.

All with saturn involved you see. Believe it or not. Its up to you.

All the best.
 

Mist Knacker

Well-known member
@queenfluff

I said you would not like it!!

I get my info not from traditional western astrology but from magi-astrology that was developed in china, I think in the fifteenth century.

Yes its contradictory to western astrology and many a western astrologer trained in the traditional western way has a knee-jerk reaction to this, but I have studied it and it correlates to events in my life. Actually according to magi its neptune that is the planet of the real and long term events.

I never actually said "bad luck", its just an ending that I mentioned.

Good luck with it.
From reading into it, Magi Astrology seems to be backed up by solid research.

They focus mainly on planetary motion and geometry, which, in the end, is a core principle behind astrology.

They don't use wide orbs in their aspects.

From their research, they have found retrograde (Rx) planets to function in the following manner:
Bi-directional aspect - where a direct planet is in aspect to a Rx planet - lessens the difficulty of turbulent aspects and helps with the enhancement aspects
Double Rx aspect - where two Rx planets are in aspect to each other - these are most helpful for enhancement aspects but are the worst for turbulent aspects
Double direct aspect - where two direct planets are in aspect to each other - all types of aspects function in their usual manner

http://www.makeagreatchoice.com/insights/glossary.php

With Saturn and Jupiter, they consider only squares, oppositions, quincunxes, and contra-parallels to be Nuclear Clashes. The Jupiter/Saturn mid-point is considered to have a similar effect. The enhancement aspects aren't considered Nuclear Clashes. In Magi Astrology, quincunxes and contra-parallels are turbulent aspects only if Saturn or a Saturnian planet is involved. They consider Uranus quincunxes to not be good as well although not turbulent.

According to this, Saturn/Chiron and Uranus/Jupiter also fall under the category Nuclear Clash, though Saturn/Jupiter is the worst one.
http://www.jupitersweb.com/magi-astrology-aspects.html

Even according to other branches of astrology, hard Saturn/Jupiter transits tend to be very negative (read Robert Hand's interpretation on Saturn Square Jupiter as an example).
http://www.stariq.com/store/products/samples/Transits_Year.htm#B24

One thing they are kinda mixed up on, though, are some of the planetary symbolisms, particularly Saturn.

I could see how Saturn got its association with deception and temptation. Magi-astrology and some other branches of astrology as well associate Saturn with Satan. In Christianity, Satan is father of lies and deceiver and steals, kills, and destroys as well as tempts (this could be why Magi astrology does not really see anything positive in Saturn transits). All branches of astrology consider Saturn to be the Greater Malefic. Satan is Greek word for adversary, though the original Greek is used by most people. In a chart, adversaries are one of the things ruled by the 7th house.

The positive qualities of Saturn such as responsibility, maturity, discipline, and also given it's first 29 year cycle around your chart during your formative years, is contrary to the Satan symbolism. Saturn is actually the Roman equivalent to the Greek word Kronos, which means time, and time is one of the keywords that falls under Saturn. That's where we get the English word Chronology from.

Magi astrology and some of the other branches of astrology may have associated Saturn with Satan by taking the the "ur" out and substituting it with an "a" (just like Santa Clause got associated with Satan by changing the order of the letters of Santa). This could possibly be a reason why Saturn got associated with the more negative things along with its core qualities of responsibility, discipline, time, etc.

So where do you *feel* it belongs ie: house? :annoyed:
I believe mostly the 9th house. When Jupiter went over my Sun 12 years ago in early spring 2000 while I was a sophomore in high school, I was attending a charter high school located on a college campus. At that time, I started my first college level course. I was also taking an A+ Certification Computer Repair course, and later that year, got A+ Certified. By the time I graduated high school, I had 50 credit hours, almost 2 years worth of college completed. The high school paid for the courses. In summer of 1999 when Jupiter transited from my natal Mercury to 4 degrees Taurus, still technically in the 8th House, I attended an engineering seminar at a technical college (the campus where my charter high school was located at), got my driver's permit and completed Driver's ED so I could get my driver's license earlier, began attending the charter high school at the start of the 1999-2000 school year. I got a new computer at the same time. I went on two beach trips that summer as well.

From June of 1999 to beginning of 2000, Jupiter also went over my Mercury and Venus in the 8th House in Aries.

Overall, Jupiter in Taurus in 1999-2000 was a positive period. The Jupiter transits over my Mercury/Venus were positive as well.

I also had a Saturn Opposite Saturn at the same time from June 1999 to March 2000.

There is a higher and a lower energy available in all the aspects. It all depends on free will and each individual's personal state of spiritual growth.

I definitely believe that. I've noticed that my challenging aspects have started expressing more positively, or at least, less negatively, in more recent years.

For example, I have a very tight Moon Square Jupiter in my natal chart. It's less than half a degree org, applying. For many years, I have found this aspect to be troublesome in my life and likely behind my bipolar disorder.

I was diagnosed with the disorder at 12.5 years old at the hospital when Jupiter was at its original natal position. Then I had a major manic episode one night when my progressed Moon was square its natal position and conjunct my natal Jupiter to the exact degree and minute in April 2004.
That same year, I was having Saturn in Cancer Square Moon and Opposite Jupiter, and I had a lot bipolar mixed states during that time. 2004 was one bad year and one of the worst.

In late April 2005, I had a binge drinking episode due to depression when Jupiter in Libra was square its natal position and opposite my Moon (at the Rx pass).

In recent years, I've had my Moon/Jupiter square quite active by progression, solar arc, and transit, and I have not had the issues with the bipolar as I did in the past. It has been a more fulfilling period.

In 2010, I had SA Jupiter=Sun, ASC=Jupiter, and ASC=Moon. Currently, I'm having SA Moon=Sun, SA MC=Jupiter and MC=Moon. My 2nd Jupiter Return in 2008 went much better overall than my first one in 1996 (which I consider to be one of my worst years along with 2004).

In August of this year, I have a progressed Lunar Return.

Jupiter in Aries square natal Jupiter and conjunct natal Moon in March 2011 was positive unlike Jupiter's transit through Libra. Currently, I'm having Saturn Libra Opposite Moon and Square Jupiter, and it hasn't been as difficult as Saturn in Cancer was. That was one of the worst periods.
 
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astropsychologist

Well-known member
Hi Mistknacker,
Thank so you so much for taking the time to do that for me. Im very interested in Vedic astrology as it seems to be far more accurate in terms of predictive work, but I know very little about it. Ive tried reading through the links you posted but think I probably have to have more of an understanding of Vedic to know what the websites are talking about. But thank you so much for that, much appreciated! :)
 

Mist Knacker

Well-known member
Hi Mistknacker,
Thank so you so much for taking the time to do that for me. Im very interested in Vedic astrology as it seems to be far more accurate in terms of predictive work, but I know very little about it. Ive tried reading through the links you posted but think I probably have to have more of an understanding of Vedic to know what the websites are talking about. But thank you so much for that, much appreciated! :)
You're welcome.
 

astropsychologist

Well-known member
Queenfluff....I so agree with you when you say...

"No offense but why do so many people want to give the bad news instead of any possible good? - it is honestly just counterproductive and makes people feel like there is no hope for them"

I find that a lot on this forum, it's very disheartening. I am all for people being realistic and I understand not wanting to get people's hopes up but it really does seem heavily slanted towards predicting doom and gloom. For example....one of the above messages told me I was going to have a rough time of it for the next 20 years. Can you believe that?????

I mean if we can't look forward to an upcoming Jupiter transit, what can we look forward to???
 

HoldOrFold

Well-known member
hi queenfluff
You may not want to hear this, and I am sorry for bringing it up, but felt I should, but there is another interpretation concerning saturn and specifically jupiter-saturn contact. Basically this is not good as a lot of astrologers will say and swear to and argue for. This is a clash. Think about it - two opposing principles coming together. And worse it concerns saturn - and again according to the not popular on this board interpretation - the planet of delusion.

On the UK investment show "Dragon's Den", nearly all the investors have a hard Jupiter/Saturn contact. It seems to be fantastic for doing extremely well in business. If they don't have a hard Jupiter/Saturn contact, then they have Saturn making a hard aspect to a personal planet with Jupiter involved. This is observable fact.

How is Saturn the planet of delusion? Where did you get that from? It's the polar opposite of that.
 

bittermoon

Well-known member
Well, there is hope then. I have Saturn in 2nd opposing my Jupiter in 8th. Can't say I've been that successful in business. Yet :)

Checked out the chart of an acquaintance of mine who has been very successful in business. He has a Saturn-Jupiter square as well.

Checked out the chart of another acquiantance of mine who has also been very successful in business and effectively retired in his thirties: Jupiter inconjunct Saturn.

Interesting.
 
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Gwenyhfair

Well-known member
I´m not really sure about jupiter as a benefic. I did once meet a special person with jupiter trine sun, the transit was not exact to the degree then but anyway. This person was sag, and there was huge ups and downs.

Last week I had jupiter conj venus but it was a bad and very stressful week all in all. The week before was great thou. So go figure, some say jupter transits can be felt before and after.

I remember jupiter conj moon as a very ordinary day. It was true I was about to move into a bigger home, but that I had been planning months before and also I did not move in until months after the transit. But it was symbolic somehow, jupiter came into my fourth house that year.:joyful:

This summer I´ll have jupiter square mars and sextile moon. Jupiter conj mars was a time of optimism and energy, and strong belief in myself and miracles. I simply don´t believe in the lottery thing, that you should buy a ticket with some certain jupiter transit. It´s more sublime to me, and what jupiter brings might bee good in a way that is not so clear the very moment, or then slow coming, feel-good.

I have natal jupiter-saturn opposition. I guess I´m doing all right in business. I have an Msc in business admin and never given it much thought. My old study-mates are the ivy league of investment so compared to them I´m nothing, and have not really tried to compete either.
 
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bigblack

astropsychologist

I sympathize with the negativity aversion you and others have. However, at least for myself, I just wrote what I wrote as a warning more to help than to be negative. I mean I did not see my negativity - i am sorry.

I'm not sure if you will view this as part of the same topic but... What would you rather have as the captain of a plane that looks like its going to crash. One who is overly positive who doesnt heed the warnings that are being given from those around him. With him saying there is plenty of time before that happens then WHACK the plane crashes just as he finishes the sentence. Personally I would not want that.

I mean if we can't look forward to an upcoming Jupiter transit, what can we look forward to???
Didnt the buddha say as that Life means suffering.

http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html

all the best
 

astropsychologist

Well-known member
Bigblack... Sorry, that wasn't a dig at you at all it was just something Ive noticed about this forum in general. And it saddens me, because I believe one of the greatest gifts astrology can give people is hope! Sometimes when people feel really down and stuck, astrology can provide a window into the future to see when things may improve, that's one of the biggest edges it has over standard therapy. So I get annoyed when I see astrologers on this forum taking that hope away from people when it's often what they need the most.

I get what you say about being realistic, I definitely don't want to give anyone false hope....but I've always approached transits with the idea that we are supposed to align ourselves with the energy of the transiting planet, rather than work against it. So isn't handling a Jupiter transit with 'caution' at odds with what Jupiter is actually asking of you at that time? Isn't caution more of a Saturnian approach? Surely during a Jupiter transit we're supposed to be more hopeful, optimistic and expansive. Warn against reckless and careless behaviour (neg Jupiter characteristics) by all means, but I don't think a person should be told to reign in their optimism during a Jupiter transit when clearly optimism and expansiveness are what they are being asked to express at this stage of their development?
 

queenfluff

Well-known member
Queenfluff....I so agree with you when you say...

"No offense but why do so many people want to give the bad news instead of any possible good? - it is honestly just counterproductive and makes people feel like there is no hope for them"

I find that a lot on this forum, it's very disheartening. I am all for people being realistic and I understand not wanting to get people's hopes up but it really does seem heavily slanted towards predicting doom and gloom. For example....one of the above messages told me I was going to have a rough time of it for the next 20 years. Can you believe that?????

I mean if we can't look forward to an upcoming Jupiter transit, what can we look forward to???

Hi! astropsychologist! (like your name btw, I have a degree in psychology myself! :)),

Thanks! I hear ya. And just to add to the GOOD NEWS for Jupiter in Taurus transits - since I post last I have secured a little part time job as a writer!!! YAH!!! Nothing fancy and won't pay a lot but better than being completely unemployed like I have been for the last 3 years! It is a a stepping stone in the right direction for me!

See? Jupiter in Taurus JUST started and already I am having good luck in the sixth house issues. :) And Jupiter isn't even near my Saturn yet either and technically, it is actualy in my 5th house because a sliver of my Taurus is in the fifth house - I am definately noticing good luck in creative issues (since the writing job!). Some of my Taurus is also in the 7th house so I am hoping once it exists my sixth that I will have luck in the relationship department :love:

I follow Western Astrology so I am not looking at the Magi stuff as applying to me. Per some of the other posts, I don't believe in God so I also don't believe in Satan. I don't think Saturn in the planet of delusion - that is Neptune territory. And I have plenty of Neptune in my chart to know this! delusion is a normal part of my life in some areas. I am no stranger to it. I recognize it well.

Plus, since I am a psychology person, I also believe that we can have some sort of self-fullfiling prophecy - hear all this negative stuff -even when you have a feeling things are going to be going good - and things can fall apart. I have a very good feeling that Jupiter in Taurus in going to be a turning point for me in my life for sixth house issues. And all of the Western astrology transit that I have read for my chart say the same.

Having a lot of Neptune in my chart I have a high level of sixth sense and intuition - and my intuition and only been wrong like twice in my life. So, until it changes I am feeling that mostly good things will happen this year. :)

EDIT: I have attached my natal, progressions and transits as of today if anyone is interested. See where the transiting Jupiter is?
 

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astropsychologist

Well-known member
Congratulations Queenfluff!!! That's great news!

Jupiter crossing my ascendant has given me great hope for the future, nothing major has happened, but my spirits have lifted considerably, there are opportunities on the horizon and the future is looking brighter.

Let's show the doubters how much good use we can put our Jupiter transits to ;)
 

HoldOrFold

Well-known member
Well, there is hope then. I have Saturn in 2nd opposing my Jupiter in 8th. Can't say I've been that successful in business. Yet :)

Checked out the chart of an acquaintance of mine who has been very successful in business. He has a Saturn-Jupiter square as well.

Checked out the chart of another acquiantance of mine who has also been very successful in business and effectively retired in his thirties: Jupiter inconjunct Saturn.

Interesting.

Yeah, you never see this in the astrology books.

It's a strong pattern nonetheless
 

Gwenyhfair

Well-known member
"if we cant look forward to a jupiter transit then what cah we look forward to"

Well not all jup transits are benefic, or it depends on how you take it. Jupiter hard aspect to sun is known for weight gain, to venus money loss/spending too much.

But I do think jupiter transits are less dramatic and life altering, compared to pluto or saturn, less blurry and lasting as neptune (or uranus).
Negativity is sad but in the air, you should visit other astro-forums:annoyed:

For me jupiter crossing the ascendant three times five years ago, was a very hard time. I finally broke up with my partner and I got depressed soon after. There was uranus square desc the same time, and saturn trine mars. I drowned myself in work an yoga. And then again in the previous years when jupiter was in my seventh we did not get married. Not even discuss it.
Things are just not as simple as many astrology sites tend to say. That jupiter brings pregnancy when aspecting moon, marriage when in seventh, lottery win with almost any aspect, love and romance when aspectin venus and so forth. Haven´t I been told all this thru the years.

But yeah, sure I look fwd to a jupiter transit and am happy when having no saturn ones for a long long time.

PS. Guess what. My old friend a pisces from business school has exact jup square saturn. Nobody ever believed he´d be succesful but he´s done quite well lately!
 

Caro

Well-known member
I would concur with the saturn jupiter conj as good for business link. (this is from personal experience) what people often forget is to get a good business off the ground you have to work very hard and often have to give up things to achieve this (saturn)

I think it will be a good energy to have in 6th house (even with saturn there)
what ever options come along will probably still have that saturnian edge to them. ie hard work

there is a general negativity with astrology generally(not just this forum), most people seeking help
with astrology are often here as they are seeking help advice with difficult transits. so maybe astrologers need to remember to clear the energy from each reading before proceeding to the next.
 
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