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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #1  
Unread 08-18-2007, 05:45 AM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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The Collective Planets

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Last edited by Shining Ray; 07-07-2008 at 03:55 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 08-18-2007, 09:43 AM
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unukalhai unukalhai is offline
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Re: The Collective Planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Ray
I wonder how many long term members on the forum are influenced by Uranus in some way, as we all come together as a group to share ideas.
*raises hand* Mercury conjunct Uranus, Moon disposited by Uranus (in Aquarius, of course) and Uranus oriental

Mercury is further influenced by the Neptune and Pluto, being at the same degree as their midpoint. My Mercury is also in Scorpio, under Pluto's care. The outer planets have taken over my mind, lol :-P

I joined this forum the year that my MC arced to my Uranus.

Quote:
My Neptune energy has been more difficult for me to handle this squares my Moon/Mercury. Collective emotions, sacrifice and everything else that goes long with Neptune.
I'm under t.Neptune square Mercury; this has been a really interesting transit. It's totally highlighted my spiritual and musical interests, and made my mind hard to focus on mundane or technical pursuits. I'm normally very technical, as shown by the ME-UR conjunction, but for the past year I've been much more focused on music and arts, and have made quite a bit of progress musically. I've even figured out a few ways to get into music professionally, which I hope to implement in the near future. I expected lots of troubles from this transit, but honestly it's been good times so far. I suppose reality will catch up with me on this later *giggle*.

Do you have a significant creative outlet? It seems Neptune-Mercury likes to release through the communicative arts, be it music, theater, spirituality, etc... Neptune needs a creative outlet otherwise she finds the hard way out... dissolution, sickness, drugs, depression, etc..

Quote:
What if your chart is quite dominated by collective energy, and how would you tell this. Would you look at the outer planets connected to personal planets, or Uranus/Neptune/Pluto being placed angular.
Both are valid considerations. Aspects (especially dynamic aspects) and midpoints between personal and outer planets are very significant. A personal planet in Sco, Aqu or Pis is disposited by an outer planet. As you mention, the houses are important too. An outer planet first rising before the Sun (oriental) is important as well. Mutual receptions between personal and outer planets are also big stuff. Progression or arc of an angle to an outer planet during the formative years (pre saturn-return) is major as well. Another thing a lot of folks don't notice is parallels between personal objects and outer planets, also quite significant. I'm sure there are more considerations, too, I'll edit this post if I recall more

Quote:
If Pluto rules the underworld what kind of significant affect would this have on the person, in a collective way are they acting out a collective energy in some way.
Pluto seems to actually be a far more personal object than most people recognize him for, especially in a psychological context. Aspects between personal planets and Pluto, or Pluto angular, seems to confer the native with ability to access and work with their shadow self. A wonderful gift. Of course, many other things come with this placement, but the ability to work with one's shadow is the best summation. This does, of course, involve facing difficult parts of the self, lots of transformation, and some hard experiences. But such potential from inner/Pluto connections!

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It's like when there are great artists/film directors like Steven spielberg how strongly collective is his chart as he would be communicating and sending out images to the collective and also picking up our images, and emotions. You would think he would have Neptune strong in his chart, but I don't know I have never seen it, he might not have it.
Great guess, as you shown you are very correct, Neptune T-squaring the ASC/DSC axis is quite powerful. I'll have to look over the chart in more detail, I'd bet he has other Neptunian considerations!

Quote:
Great musicians and artists and leaders of our time must have this energy stronger than most in their chart. I read because these planets are not so personalised that a person that a person cannot always handle it and in some cases it can lead to insanity.
The outer planets are alot more personal than most people think, especially when they are connected to the inner planets. The insanity comes if one tries to hang on to their ego-structure; the outers require us to essentially go through a molt, shedding our shell (unneeded and restrictive saturine structure). If you have any idea of how sensitive an animal is during the molting process, you can directly apply that condition to the aspected personal planet(s), which can be quite vulnerable during their transformation(s). All the outer planets represent transformations and change, the only difference is which process they use.

Quote:
If you don't find a way to creatively express these planets, would it lead to a lot of problems.
It can. You don't always have to express them, they tend to guide you from depths beyond what you can express, but you certainly can develop the ability to consciously express them. What is more dangerous is repressing them! They are a force well beyond the frail ego of a human; going against them is like picking a fight with the solar system. To the outer planets, the human ego is a useless skeleton that at best retards change, at worst leads to destruction. We can throw the lasso around our Sun, our Mercury, etc, and personally choose how we are going to apply these energies... They are personal, essentially our energy in submission to our will. Once you get to the planets that are not lit visibly by the Sun, you're dealing with the a combination of subconscious and superconscious forces. My best advise in this area is to choose one of the outers and ask it to be your guide, for a period of time. Progressed aspects and the outer planet cycles make it pretty obvious which is the most receptive to you during any given period. IE around age 26-28 we all have the Neptune-Neptune sextile, Uranus square Uranus at 21, Uranus opp. Uranus around 42, Chiron return at 50, etc etc. I've found that consciously asking one of the outer planet energies to enact positive change does work, presently I'm working mostly with Neptune as I'm under the Neptune-Neptune sextile in addition to Neptune square Mercury, along with the waning Chiron square. You could say im in a Chiron-Neptune cycle at this point, after having spent a few years with a Uranus progression. I could go on (I've mapped out the next 20 or so years with the outers) but you get the idea -- be conscious of the outer planet cycles you are under and work consciously with these energies; it's more productive and less stressful than simply letting them drag you around, which they will do if you don't invite them to change you. After all, these planets are the masters of leading the sleeping masses through their karmic transformation commitments, however these energies are quite happy to find a soul that isn't asleep at the wheel and will respond in kind.

Quote:
You probably haven't made much sense of this, because I haven't either , as I am finding it hard to explain this and understand it. But feedback welcome as I want to hear how everyone else views these planets in their chart, or just their opinions on collective planets.
It's a huge subject. I really should bookmark this thread you've started and come back, as I tend to ponder the outer planets often, they are my main interest in astrology... IMHO, the inner planets are too boring and personal, and too fast moving, to be much fun :P Figures I'd think that way with my chart, lol.

Outer planet reading list:
http://www.amazon.com/Astrology-Self.../dp/0916360202
http://www.amazon.com/How-Personaliz...7428437&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Alive-Well-Ura...7428563&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Alive-Well-Nep...7428563&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Alive-Well-Plu...7428563&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.com/Pluto-Evolutio...7428610&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Pluto-Souls-Ev...7428610&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Neptune-House-...7428648&sr=1-5
http://www.amazon.com/Astrological-N...7428648&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Pluto-...7428699&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Book-Pluto-Ste...428725&sr=1-20
http://www.amazon.com/Uranus-Llewell...7428756&sr=1-1
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Last edited by unukalhai; 08-18-2007 at 10:06 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 08-18-2007, 10:46 PM
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Arian Maverick Arian Maverick is offline
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Re: The Collective Planets

This is a very interesting thread, but I've always had difficulty distinguishing between the outer planets in my chart because I was born during the 1989 "triple conjunction" of Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus in Capricorn--although Uranus is a little too far from the Saturn-Neptune conjunction for my taste. My natal Moon, which is conjunct my Ascendant, is applying towards a tight square with Uranus, which is conjunct my Midheaven; the Saturn-Neptune conjunction squares my Sun-Venus-Mercury conjunction. So I suppose I express the collective planets in a very personal way, which may not make their expression seem very collective at all.

Personal planets versus collective planets...there is so much more I wish I could say about this topic, but sometimes I fear I may be attempting to speak for the collective based only upon my own experience, which may not apply to the majority at all! Do their energies seem contradictory to others, or do they blend seamlessly with that of the personal planets? I suppose this depends a lot upon they aspects they receive, but to me, it's always seemed like war ground.

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Last edited by Arian Maverick; 08-18-2007 at 11:01 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 08-19-2007, 01:10 AM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: The Collective Planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Ray
How do you all feel these planets play out in your chart. I have been thinking about this in relation to my own chart. My two major collective planets which touch my personal planets is Uranus in 3rd which trines my Moon/Mercury. Mercury is my chart ruler and my Moon rules the 11th house Uranus's natural house. Maybe this is why I enjoy being in the group and involved with collective ideas, so to speak.
I think this is a great topic, if we can get people to contribute. I'm a very recently joined member of this group, but I've been a loyal member of another for more than two years.

There are two ways of influencing large groups of people, although some people may do both.

The first is to directly reach a large group. You mentioned Spielberg. So there the question would be what in his chart shows that he is compelled to seek the kind of fame that allows him to make his ideas so well know.

The second way is to influence individuals who will later go on to affect large groups.

Who taught Spielberg? Who helped him gain the position or influence to become famous? Who nurtured and molded him so that he would do something positive in the world?

Gaer
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Unread 08-19-2007, 04:45 AM
Emmy Emmy is offline
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Re: The Collective Planets

Your ideas about the collective planets sound fascinating. I hope this thread goes on and on! I am a classical musician,I work with large performing groups in front of large audiences,etc. Uranus trines my Moon (8 degree orb) and opposes Venus (also 8 degree orb) and also opposes my Mercury
(0 degree orb)-- and Uranus is in my 10th house. Neptune squares my Venus (3 degree orb) and my Mercury (5 degree orb)-and is in the 1st house. I have Pluto in the 11th and Venus is the chart ruler. Hmmmmm... )) Neptune will be conjunct my Sun very soon--hope it means that I'll be involved in making beautiful music rather than losing touch with reality and going insane! > --Emmy
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Unread 08-19-2007, 06:56 AM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: The Collective Planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arian Maverick
This is a very interesting thread, but I've always had difficulty distinguishing between the outer planets in my chart because I was born during the 1989 "triple conjunction" of Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus in Capricorn--although Uranus is a little too far from the Saturn-Neptune conjunction for my taste.
Here's the way I would look at it. The conjunction of Neptune and Uranus in Capricorn took place about 1993, I think, but these two planets were about as close as they got with Saturn in the picture when you were born. What was beginning to happen about that time?

Perhaps this was the beginning of a new look at science, physics in particular, and from about that time on it seems to me that science often seems more like mysticism, while we have things going on like the Dalai Lama meeting with Western scientists in a way that makes those Buddhists seem more like practical, down-to-earth scientists. This is really a mind-blowing change, because what is now "practical" and "grounded" seems to have to do with a merging of "hard science" and what was formerly called "mysticism".

Now, if you embrace this idea—which I do, by the way—the intensity with which it hits you is they key. Sun square Saturn, Moon square Uranus, under 2 degrees orb, Sun square Neptune, only a bit over 3 degrees orb.

To me that makes it personal. And perhaps the Moon is the most personal planet of all, since it moves the fastest. If you had been born a few hours later or earlier, it's square to Uranus would not have been nearly so tight.

Moon so close to the ascendant, and the Moon your oriental planet.

When you hear narrow-minded, conservative people proclaiming their views, can you keep silent? Do you just shake your head? Or go head-to-head in some way?
Quote:
My natal Moon, which is conjunct my Ascendant, is applying towards a tight square with Uranus, which is conjunct my Midheaven; the Saturn-Neptune conjunction squares my Sun-Venus-Mercury conjunction. So I suppose I express the collective planets in a very personal way, which may not make their expression seem very collective at all.
I think you ARE reflecting something that is collective, very much. The fact that it is so personal just makes it much more intense, much less subconsious, and those squares probably make it hard to express your thoughts/feelings without some kind of internal or external explosion/friction. Possible?

Gaer

Last edited by gaer; 08-19-2007 at 06:59 AM.
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  #7  
Unread 08-20-2007, 05:33 PM
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QuaOs QuaOs is offline
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Re: The Collective Planets

Let's see ... I have Pisces rising, then Scorpio Sun in H8, conjuncting Venus+Saturn+Pluto also in H8 but in Libra.

This point sextiles to Mars+Neptune conjunction in Sagittarius, H10, and squares Moon in Capricorn, H11. Finally my Uranus is in Sagittarius, H9
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Unread 08-29-2007, 03:04 AM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: The Collective Planets

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Originally Posted by Shining Ray
I thought this thread would have got more replies, I think all my E.T alien talk on the Steven Spielberg chart scared everyone off .
Not me!

I'm still in it, if others are. In fact, i would be as much or even more interested in the other part of this dynamic duo, John Williams, who wrote so many of the themes we all know for so many of these movies.

For all it's worth, I would say that the collective planets signal big, sweeping changes in society, but all we can say for sure is that we are affected, as individuals, to some extent.

I have Uranus in the 10th, sex Venus/Saturn conjunct in the 12th, trine Mercury in the 3rd. My own "rebellion" is very quiet, but it's strong. I'm in a rather traditional, conservative marriage, I guess, but I've always been a strong support, for instance, of both the women's movement and gay rights. For me it's a very quiet thing though. I rebel against traditional views of family and religion.

It's always important to remember that we can change as many people as a very "public" person if we have a strong influence on someone who will someday become famous or influential.
Quote:
This is what happens when you talk to me (Mercury in Pisces square Neptune + Mercury trine Uranus in 3rd house Scorpio).
It seems very pleasant to me!

Gaer
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