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  #1  
Unread 07-20-2007, 02:33 AM
Michael Michael is offline
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Smile Planets in retrograde

I have a couple of unusual behaviours that could be correlated by mercury retrograde in my chart. One of them is that I seem like if I was dumb, because I seem unfocused. Also I have trouble talking to others because I feel afraid of rejection, and when I talk I usually undermine myself. Moreover I have had great difficulty in school, because I didn't understand the teacher and the reading material was too dificult for me to understand.

Does anyone has the same problems?
I also have Venus retrograde in my chart in the 12th house, and I have problem expresing my emotions. I tend to get enmeshed with others, so I find it difficult to separate my personality from those of others.


Last edited by Michael; 07-20-2007 at 02:36 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 07-20-2007, 02:50 AM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

The problems expressing your emotions are either going to go back to the Retrograde Mercury you referenced or perhaps bring Luna into the spotlight.

I know compulsive liars who had Mercury retrograde. Let me tell you how much fun those experiences were...
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  #3  
Unread 07-20-2007, 04:05 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Michael, your Mercury retro makes an EXACT square with your Neptune. This is the reason why you are sometimes unfocussed. Neptune blurrs the mind quite a bit. Your fear of rejection is that Venus in the 12th conjunct Mars who is the ruler of the 8th (subconscious fears, worries). Mars is also co-ruler of your Moon (emotions) and the Moon is in square with your Venus and Mars, so it is all related, fear, emotions, lovefeelings.
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Unread 07-20-2007, 04:14 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

I had a look in one of my books about the retrograde Mercury. It says:
Quote:
" This is the planet of reasoning ability, the mind and communication. When it is retrograde, the thinking process seems deeper and more sensitive. There is some innate ability to relate to other people's feelings and thoughts, making you less likely to jump to conclusions. Many writers have Mercury retrograde (HOW ABOUT THAT!), because for many of these people it is easier to express themselves in writing rather than verbally (AHA!) Some people seem to have trouble explaining their motives or feelings and will retreat into silence!, whereas others become particularly adept at expressing their needs after they mature and have had a chance to work on their communication gap. Authors like Pearl Buck and Zelda Fitzgerald had retrograde Mercuries."
Well, a lot of this seems to hit home don't you think?
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Unread 07-20-2007, 06:12 PM
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Red face Re: Planets in retrograde

Starlink you said it as it is. I love this psychological approach to astrology, I think it's of a higher kind than predictive astrology.
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Unread 07-20-2007, 06:13 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
I have a couple of unusual behaviours that could be correlated by mercury retrograde in my chart. One of them is that I seem like if I was dumb, because I seem unfocused. Also I have trouble talking to others because I feel afraid of rejection, and when I talk I usually undermine myself.
This is due to Mercury being afflicted. I have got similar problems. My Mercury is in Virgo, opposite the Moon in Pisces. I take notice of everything, have an eidetic memory and a pretty good intuition. I can figure out people's feelings, emotions, states of minds and second motives easily and immediately. I can sense them.

But if you see me, I look like I am completely unfocused, distracted, superficial, even stupid.
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Unread 07-20-2007, 06:16 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
I have a couple of unusual behaviours that could be correlated by mercury retrograde in my chart. One of them is that I seem like if I was dumb, because I seem unfocused. Also I have trouble talking to others because I feel afraid of rejection, and when I talk I usually undermine myself. Moreover I have had great difficulty in school, because I didn't understand the teacher and the reading material was too dificult for me to understand.

Does anyone has the same problems?
I also have Venus retrograde in my chart in the 12th house, and I have problem expresing my emotions. I tend to get enmeshed with others, so I find it difficult to separate my personality from those of others.
hi michael
see if your 3rd house is affected, conjunction aspect by malefics and 3rd from mercury
that'll tell if your communication is weak.

sandeep
(pm me for a remedy )
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Unread 07-20-2007, 06:29 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

I am a trained psychological Astrologer and you are so right. Predictive astrology is not nearly as interesting and you have to have the exact time of birth to be accurate. How many people know their exact birthtime right?
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Unread 07-20-2007, 06:51 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Quote:
Originally Posted by starlink
I am a trained psychological Astrologer and you are so right. Predictive astrology is not nearly as interesting and you have to have the exact time of birth to be accurate. How many people know their exact birthtime right?
Hi SL,
wow there's something as trained astrology, how do you do this? any online course?

sandeep
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Unread 07-20-2007, 07:58 PM
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Smile Re: Planets in retrograde

There are some universities and schools were you can learn vedic or western astrology. Although the best way is to learn from a very good teacher, and if he is famous much better.
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  #11  
Unread 07-20-2007, 08:03 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Sure, you can do all sorts of different courses in Astrology. Here in Switzerland you have the Huber School of Astrology amongst some other less known. I got my certificat at the FAS (Faculty of Astrological Studies in London). You can buy any Astrological Magazine and you will see adds for courses, not only Astrology, but also Numerology and Tarot. I dont know if those come with a diploma though, but you can also just follow courses and learn that way. I started off learning everything by myself for the first 10 years , only after that I decided to get a certificate. And I am still learning!! Because horary astrology was not in the package. I started that by myself about a year ago. I love it and I learned so much in this forum about it. You will too.
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Unread 07-21-2007, 08:06 AM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

read this - retrograde planets and past lives
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  #13  
Unread 07-21-2007, 03:40 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Thanks Virinchi!
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  #14  
Unread 10-07-2007, 03:34 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Also I have trouble talking to others because I feel afraid of rejection

Does anyone has the same problems?
I also have Venus retrograde in my chart in the 12th house, and I have problem expresing my emotions. I tend to get enmeshed with others, so I find it difficult to separate my personality from those of others.
I do not have trouble talking to people. But i do fear rejection alot , expecially when it comes to love. I have tons of emotions inside me ( i think due to scorpio sun + cancer moon ) , but i have great difficulties expressing them, and never expressed them in the correct way. No one really can udnerstand me, and my love ones all left me due to the fact i do not express myself the way they want me to. It bothers me alot once, but i stop pondering over all this already.

I have Venus retrograde in scorpio in house 7.
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  #15  
Unread 10-07-2007, 04:49 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Quote:
Originally Posted by starlink
I am a trained psychological Astrologer and you are so right. Predictive astrology is not nearly as interesting and you have to have the exact time of birth to be accurate. How many people know their exact birthtime right?
My Delivering Dr. was Chinese and also my Godfather which I bet knew the importance of the birthtime.He put 8:12am down as my time of birth. I had a hernia when born and the Catholic hospital I was delivered in would not allow my mother to much access to me which I found strange.

Birthtimes
The descrepency comes in more in charts before the 20th century IMO. Time was not as well taken as the devices and the drama of daily life was not as it is today.Today we base everything on time in a way. We are a stressed out society over it.Critical TIME! TIme iis ruled by Saturn.I am a very Saturn person having it as the best aspected planet in myt chart.

The evolution from the 1800's to the atomic age progressed our thought's of time.Fractions of a second are now measured whereas they did not make a critical difference before.

Me/Sa trine for me.Time is everything so is timing! I was just thinking how temporal our lives are ,how short of time on this planet we have and what does really matter in life before writing this.

Today they wish to Rush us until we cannot perform or function to produce.When our systems fail they wonder why,time!

I wrote a lot recently on Rx factors and I think the shying away of communication might be a Saturn Fear also.I have not looked at the chart.

Me/Mn/Sa/3rd-9th/11th might be worthy of consideration if i were to look at the chart.
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  #16  
Unread 10-09-2007, 12:26 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Michael, I think most people have at least one or two planet retrogrades. I think someone did an analysis once and found the vast majority of people (87.3%) had 1-4 planets retrograde. Having retrograde planets is the norm. Take for example Mercury. A fifth of the world's population have Mercury retrograde! I have a suspicion that while retrograde Mercury may help contribute to your problems there are probably a lot of afflictions too.

Here are the odds:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Astrology...etrogrades.htm

Quote:
Born with 0 retrograde planets: 7.7 percent
Born with 1 retrograde planet: 18.7 percent
Born with 2 retrograde planets: 29.2 percent
Born with 3 retrograde planets: 26.7 percent
Born with 4 retrograde planets: 12.7 percent
Born with 5 retrograde planets: 4.15 percent
Born with 6 retrograde planets: 0.66 percent
Born with 7 retrograde planets: 0.005 percent
The truly unusual people are those with lots of retrograde planets (5 or greater) or none at all. There is only an 8% chance of having no retrograde planets. I am in that 8% I don't mind it though as apparently the vast majority of all American Presidents (~85%) fall into that 8% as well

Here is what the studies found about having retrograde planets:

Quote:
No retrograde planets was found in people with a dogged perserverance, unrelenting in their drive to achieve their goals. He found
this very high, not just in US Presidents, but in the charts of successful athletes and dancers.

One planet retrograde, he found, tended to not really need the company of others to be happy, and was somewhat of an independent type, something like the Aries type who can work and achieve alone.

When people meet someone with two retrograde planets, they tend to feel comfortable with that person....because there is a feeling of familiarity about them. In general, people are drawn to these people, and tend to like them.

People with three retrograde planets, John found, tend to operate more behind the scenes, and have a strong determination to excel at something.

Four retrograde planets was something John often found in the charts of writers, and others who seek private ways to express themselves, and are often drawn to the more solitary professions.

Five retrogrades planets tends even more towards solitary occupations, and is not likely to strive for a position where they need to please other people. In general, the public would tend to prefer to shake your hand than to greet you with a hug.

Six retrograde planets was so rare (only 51 days out of the whole 100 years), that John did not have enough people to come to any conclusions. In fact, he only found two famous people with six retrogrades, Angela Davis and Muhammad Ali. Definitely not a large enough group to speculate on. And of course, the group with 7 retrograde planets was even smaller, so there is no speculation there as well.
In fact if you have 2 planets retrograde you are pretty "normal".

Last edited by Yoi; 10-09-2007 at 12:46 PM.
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  #17  
Unread 10-09-2007, 03:06 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Not counting chiron , i got 2 retrogrades too. Venus and Jupiter.
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  #18  
Unread 10-09-2007, 05:17 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Hi Michael,don't even worry about your Rx Mercury.I know most people have a very harsh view on Retrogrades but they aren't really all bad as some make them appear to be;nothing in our chart is "bad" or is there with the sole intent of hurting us,our charts do have their challenges but what is life without a little bit of stress?Mercury Rx people can appear dumb-but they aren't.Rx means delays,problems,but it doesn't stop you from doing anything.I can't see your chart now but what from what I can remember(and from what Starlink has said),it's probably that Mercury/Neptune square that makes your mind a little bit blurry.On the other hand you have the ability for great creativity,and whatever teaching method your teachers try to use in you won't probably work,for this aspect likes to dream and requires a creative,unusual approach,otherwise people won't get your atention.Your Mercury is in Virgo after all,it's dignity,so I don't believe you're dumb-remember Einstein,they thought he was dumb!On the other hand,you may become enjoy studying typical Neptunian things-no wonder you've picked up astrology.
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  #19  
Unread 10-11-2007, 04:57 AM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Retrograde mercury will automatically think before speaking - an automatic ability to review their words before they are said.
How they come out after review could be effected by sign & aspect

As for predictive aastrology vs psychological astrology - I feel the two are relevant as they serve different functions.
The oracular needs to enter the room in a consultation which attempts predictive astrology tho.

Last edited by Natasha; 10-11-2007 at 04:59 AM.
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Unread 10-11-2007, 08:25 AM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

My experience with Mercury RX was best described in an interpretation by an astrologer whose name I cannot recall now as "learning through absorption"

I tend to need to "absorb" the whole picture before I can understand it. It seems our learning style is to pick up pieces and assimilate them into a whole, but we seem fairly lost until we can see the bigger picture, which sometimes makes learning slower, but we tend to have a more complete understanding when we are done, if we take the effort to get that far.

It's as if the retrograde motion forces me to review for a period, then when my mind symbolically goes "direct" I "get it"... sort of like looking at a complicated fractal and staring at it until bam! the whole pattern converges into one thing.

Starlink,

I would totally agree on easier to express oneself in writing... I am so much better behind the keyboard or pen than in front of a microphone or group of people. The mind tends to recalculate in it's expression, likes to rehash things!

Huber's ideas are very interesting, he and his wife have some quite unique ways of working... His books are quite the read.
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Unread 10-11-2007, 06:40 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Yes, Yoi. That information you are quoting comes from the book "Book of Retrogrades" by John McCormick, and it's a very interesting investigation that he did about this subject.

I am curious...Do you feel you have to work really hard to get anything you want? It's said that people who don't have retrogrades in their charts are those who have to work really hard for every thing they want to get in this life. I know only one person in that category (and now you) and he says he feels this way, even if he is a very sucessful person in every level.


Carole
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Last edited by Carole; 10-11-2007 at 06:45 PM.
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  #22  
Unread 10-12-2007, 04:29 AM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carole
Yes, Yoi. That information you are quoting comes from the book "Book of Retrogrades" by John McCormick, and it's a very interesting investigation that he did about this subject.

I am curious...Do you feel you have to work really hard to get anything you want? It's said that people who don't have retrogrades in their charts are those who have to work really hard for every thing they want to get in this life. I know only one person in that category (and now you) and he says he feels this way, even if he is a very sucessful person in every level.


Carole
Actually I would say the exact opposite. People without retrogrades tend to be very driven (type A) people which means they are able and willing to work very hard for a goal but I wouldn't say they *have* to work hard for anything they get. When I was younger I would have said the same thing your friend did but really now that I think about it, I realize that rather than things coming too difficult for me, it was really the opposite. Things actually came very easily to me, even when I didn't really deserve it. However one thing about having no retrogrades is you are really involved with yourself with little self-reflection and don't really notice the outside world too much. Why it seemed so difficult was not because it really was but because you were always looking to the future with very high goals in mind. The more accurate statement is people without retrogrades are more willing to work very hard to get where they want to go in life because they can be so focused and so easily ignore the rest of the world.

I do think it is hard to separate the effects of direct/retrograde from other elements of your chart. For example I could say that having no retrogrades makes me heavily focused on my career goals and self-contained. But I also have Mars-Jupiter conjunction and the Moon and Pluto trining the MC in a quasi-grand trine which could also explain the above.

Instead of the common Mercury retrograde complaints that what they say is hard to understand, for me what I say *I* think is babbling (hey Mercury square MC) but apparently it makes perfect sense to everyone else and I am often complimented by very senior people about my insightfulness and wisdom. Apparently my babbling is not only eloquent but actually useful. This could be due to me having Mercury direct. But I also have Gemini ascendant and Moon, and Mercury conjunct Uranus sextile Saturn in Scorpio which could also explain my good communication skills.

Good social skills could be due to Venus direct. Yet at the same time I have Venus-trine-Jupiter and Venus-trine-Mars which should *also* lead to good social skills.

In my case at least I don't know of anything that can be attributed to having everything direct that can't be attributed to some other major elements in my chart.

Last edited by Yoi; 10-12-2007 at 01:11 PM.
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  #23  
Unread 10-14-2007, 04:36 AM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

I agree with Yoi about having no retrogrades as I have no retrogrades & relate to what you say. There is little reflection prior to action. And the inner pressure is go go fo it. Result can fee burnt out
As sometimes its like a rock going down a hill - once you get rolling its hard to stop even if its no longer valid to continue.
One seems to have to learn to review after the fact then integrate a response to try another way when a similar situation arises.
Some say that when your first planet goes retrograde by progression you get a psychological experiance of what its like to have a retrograde planet. Of course its not your natal planet but its a progressive experiance.
Track back in the ephemereous to your fist retrograde & see if you can recall any change in an inner level. Mine was when I started to study astrology & started to see my actions personality etc from a different pov
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Unread 10-14-2007, 06:19 AM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natasha
I agree with Yoi about having no retrogrades as I have no retrogrades & relate to what you say. There is little reflection prior to action. And the inner pressure is go go fo it. Result can fee burnt out
As sometimes its like a rock going down a hill - once you get rolling its hard to stop even if its no longer valid to continue.
One seems to have to learn to review after the fact then integrate a response to try another way when a similar situation arises.
Some say that when your first planet goes retrograde by progression you get a psychological experiance of what its like to have a retrograde planet. Of course its not your natal planet but its a progressive experiance.
Track back in the ephemereous to your fist retrograde & see if you can recall any change in an inner level. Mine was when I started to study astrology & started to see my actions personality etc from a different pov
Hi Natasha, I agree exactly with what you are saying. I always reflect *after* the fact. Believe I've tried to change that, but it just doesn't work.

I also agree with you about planets going retrograde in progressions. I currently have one planet retrograde by progression - Jupiter. It did coincide with a massive external event that literally changed me. I never reflected on things and my own actions before that. I was always focused on my goals. This event literally forced me open to consider the effects of my actions on other people and taught me the meaning of doubt. I think people should not underestimate just how self-contained and goal focused a person with no retrogrades can be. I think the all direct nature of my natal chart was made even more focused in my early years by the fact that for the first 16 years of my life over *half* of my solar returns had all the planets direct as well. All of the rest only had 1 planet retrograde except for one year with two retrogrades. I have to admit when I was younger I did not know the meaning of the word self-reflection and in many ways I was actually selfish. Fortunately I have Venus-trine-Mars and Venus-trine-Jupiter which meant that people still liked me despite that. OTOH this extreme focus and lack of self-doubt also allows you to achieve amazing things and reach very high goals.

I have to admit I still don't really understand retrogrades that well. None of of my personal planets will ever go retrograde, even by progression (OK Mercury will eventually when I'm about 90 years old, but I don't think it really matters at that point). Similarly I worked out my solar returns up to when I was 80 and retrogrades aren't as common as expected by average. For example in 80 years I will never once have a venus retrograde in a solar return chart. 15% of the solar returns have all direct and 30% have only one retrograde. That is double the average. Which I guess means some other poor sap is going to get a lot more than their fair share of retrogrades...All this means is I think I still have a difficult time understanding what having a retrograde really means.

Now that I think about it, I think that having no retrogrades can best be described as will to power. Throughout my life if I really wanted something I obtained it. If you give me a clear goal and it is something I really want I will obtain it as I will go after it with single-minded focus (yes, everyone get out of my way). This is not to mean that you can't feel doubt, feel stupid or feel socially inadequate or even depressed depending on the rest of your chart. Rather when you have a goal in mind, you are able to force your will over problems, whether external or internal, for at least the required period of time to achieve your goal. I think with fewer retrogrades there is enormous will. Which I guess makes sense in that everything in your chart is directed to going *forward* and if they all happen to point towards the same direction (the same goal) there is enormous personal will power. If you have a mix of retrograde and direct planets you have planets moving in different directions so it is difficult to get the same amount of power out of them if you try to aim them towards a single goal. This theory would raise the interesting prospect that if you have nearly all of your planets retrograde you would also have very strong personal will but not the same type of will to power as having one or zero retrogrades. It is interesting that in that work I cited people with 1 or zero retrogrades and people with lots of retrogrades are marked by the lack of need for other people and tend to be be very self-contained.

Last edited by Yoi; 10-14-2007 at 12:58 PM.
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  #25  
Unread 10-18-2007, 12:08 PM
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Re: Planets in retrograde

Very interesting to read Yoi & very insightful.
Erin Sullivan wrote a book on Retrograde Planets & its very interesting to read
Some equate having no retrograde planets with a similar feel to a new moon lunation in the natal chart or a Aries statement or 1st house statement.
Its an image of starting out before review.

I also have a new moon lunation although my moon is 35 degrees from my sun it does still fall into the new moon category.

No retrograde planets has a very out there feel & although some see it as similar to a first house placement, I wonder if it could have the visibility also of having planets conjunct the midheaven. Its very visible is what I am trying to suggest...
I realise that I can be very visible when I am 'out there'. It does not always equate to an intended visibleness tho - its more spontaneous than that so sometimes the visibility may not be welcome by the person. Especially if one has a rising sign like Scorpio or Capricorn.

Last edited by Natasha; 10-18-2007 at 12:12 PM.
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