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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) and excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #26  
Unread 02-20-2014, 12:32 AM
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Re: Almutem Figuris

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  #27  
Unread 02-20-2014, 12:45 AM
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Re: Almutem Figuris

Quote:
Originally Posted by digimon19
Ok, finding of Almutem is not a problem. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to do this kind of Theurgy, connection with Almutem?
Hi again, Digimon (MangaAngemon was always my favorite),

This pretty much hits the nail on the head on one of the main purposes of the Almuten of the Figure. On the one hand we can sort of redirect a native's purpose in living to make them happier by pointing them to activities that are related to their Almuten of the Figure. On a more spiritual level, doing these things is supposed to help people connect with their personal daemon.

We're also told that planets are more likely to listen to petitions from those who have them well placed in their chart, and the almuten of the figure is really the best one to go with in almost all cases (at least in my opinion). I've had some good experiences with it.
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  #28  
Unread 02-20-2014, 11:05 AM
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Re: Almutem Figuris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius Cojoc View Post
Kurios or Almuten of the chart reveals for the native his manner of living, his actions, his Ego, and gives info for his karma. If Kurios occupies a cadent place, the native will be prone to obtain posessions, assets, things which could measure, things which give us auspicious environment for life, material things, quantitative stuff etc; if occupies a succedent place, the native will be prone to obtain material and spiritual values from commitments, golas or expactations, it is prone to obtain confort and pleasure, qulitative stuff; if occupies an angular place the native is prone to obtain the quintesence of life, things which give us direction, purpose, faith, the native will be seeking God. Now it depends if Kurios is in sect or out of sect. The attitude does matter.

Kurios has may implications. For the moment, I prefer to studie which are truly and which are not. I can't use Ezra Almuten recipe. My belifes are different. I tried to explain this in the earlier post. Anyway, I'm sure that Zoller knows and does more than this. The scheme is good for an introductory matter for this issue. The identification of Kurios is not about counting dignities and numbers.
Greetings, Marius Cojoc
Ok, that is what I've found (I noticed you commenting there) http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3334

The next planet that is equally important in the overall rulership of a nativity (besides Oikodespotes or domicile master of the chart) is called Kurios [Lord of the nativity]. Kurios is the executor of the agenda that Oikodespotes (domicile master) holds.
Kurios of a chart is determined from the following candidates:-
1. Ascendant sign. We look to the planet(s) in the Ascendant sign AND bounds of the ascending degree.
2. Domicile Lord of Ascendant.
3. Moon and its Domicile Lord
4. Tenth sign from ascendant and its Domicile Lord
5. Lot of Fortune and its Domicile Lord.
6. Any planets that make phasis* in the chart. Should also include planets that make a first or second station 7 days before or after nativity.
7. The bound lord of the pre-natal lunation.
The Kurios (The Lord of the nativity) is determined using the above hierarchy AND is also fit to conduct its business*.

Then on this link (still) Kurios of Hitler's chart is found by just counting (as Venus corresponds to numbers 2,6,7). Nothing about examining chart as the whole (or maybe I missed something). And nothing about the Kurios's (Venus) role in the life of Hitler. I wish it was a comperehensive practical analysis. If you dont mind, I want you to show us such analysis with explanations of someone's chart. I think it will be more clear to understand Almutem and its essence in practice.

With best wishes,
digimon19
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  #29  
Unread 02-20-2014, 11:47 AM
digimon19 digimon19 is offline
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Re: Almutem Figuris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post
Hi again, Digimon (MangaAngemon was always my favorite),

This pretty much hits the nail on the head on one of the main purposes of the Almuten of the Figure. On the one hand we can sort of redirect a native's purpose in living to make them happier by pointing them to activities that are related to their Almuten of the Figure. On a more spiritual level, doing these things is supposed to help people connect with their personal daemon.

We're also told that planets are more likely to listen to petitions from those who have them well placed in their chart, and the almuten of the figure is really the best one to go with in almost all cases (at least in my opinion). I've had some good experiences with it.
Hi, Kaiousei!
Definitely MangaAngemon is a strong guy but I prefer beast-looking digimon like Greymon and Garurumon

Perhaps, if you do astrology, your Almutem is Mercury, isnt it? I find it interesting to try to connect personal daemon through related to him activities.

By the way, you use Ben Ezra methods of calculating?

And one more thing. Ezra says that if the Almuten is Jupiter, he will philosophize and teach. Now opened Lilly's Christian astrology p.78 and see that philosophers and school-masters are Mercurian professions. What didn't I understand? What's the difference of signification?
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  #30  
Unread 02-20-2014, 03:39 PM
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Re: Almutem Figuris

Quote:
Originally Posted by digimon19
Perhaps, if you do astrology, your Almutem is Mercury, isnt it? I find it interesting to try to connect personal daemon through related to him activities.
If you're asking me if my almuten is Mercury, no. Mine is Jupiter.

If you're asking if astrology is a good activity to use to connect to your daemon if Mercury is your almuten figurius, then yes, I definitely think it would be a good place to start.

Quote:
By the way, you use Ben Ezra methods of calculating?
Yes. I use Ibn Ezra's calculations.

Quote:
And one more thing. Ezra says that if the Almuten is Jupiter, he will philosophize and teach. Now opened Lilly's Christian astrology p.78 and see that philosophers and school-masters are Mercurian professions. What didn't I understand? What's the difference of signification?
It mostly comes down to the nature of the planets. Mercury is more about communication and trade (thus the emphasis on commerce) whereas Jupiter is more about giving. You're right that there is some overlap in these two planets, but Mercury has always been considered the more material whereas Jupiter is the more spiritual. Thus Mercury will get things like the physical sciences and teaching in regards to mathematics and grammar, things that can be measured. Jupiter gets the more high-minded law, philosophy, religion, or things that must be weighed.

I hope that helps.
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  #31  
Unread 02-20-2014, 08:27 PM
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Re: Almutem Figuris

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  #32  
Unread 02-20-2014, 09:56 PM
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Re: Almutem Figuris

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Originally Posted by Marius Cojoc View Post
The scheme you presented, belongs to Porphyry and its slightly different than was presented by astrojin. Porphyry point us the sensitive places, where we should look out for the Kurios. There are in fact, two distinct algorithms.

First algorithm, and the most important, is reffering to the Midheaven . The remarks are very vague, because it could be also reffering to the 10th place. Why Midheaven? Because this place is indicative of actions (praxis), of ruling and leading. If the ruler of the Midheaven is not in a pivotal image, Porphyry suggest us to choose the planet which fall upon the Midheaven and which “is ruling over action in the nativity as if in a citadel”. If there isn’t such a planet, Porphyry suggest us to choose the planet which is ascending after the Midheaven (Schimdt); before the Midheaven (Holden).

The central ideea is that everything is revolving around the Midheaven because is the most fit place to conduct businesess of the Kurios. Now, suppose that Midheaven fall in the 11th place, then what? The planet ascending after the Midheaven could fall in the 12th place and that which ascends before it, could fall in the 10th place?

I think that Porphyry was reffering to the Midheaven as a horoscopic point and not to the 10th place. My guess, is that the planet which fall upon the Midheaven is reffering to the planet which ocuppies the degree or the confines of the Midheaven. Also, the third choice is in fact the closest planet to the degree of Midheaven, which occupies the same image.

This is the aglorithm of Porphyry and what you posted is the algorithm of others astrolgers as Porphyry is reffering in his Introduction. The second algorithm is very cunning and difficult to compute. Porphyry describe it slightly different.

The central ideea of this second algorithm is that Kurios is chosen primarly by the type of business it conducts. Only if the AS surroundings are not optimal you will check Selene. The worst scenario is to appeal to the confines of the prenatal lunation to idenitify the Kurios. This means that the rest of the candidates where failing in their duty to conduct their business, or at least what Kurios was supposed to do. That will be an odd chart. The confines of the prenatal lunation, broadly speaking, are showing the operating principles for the natives life. They are related with actions as they guide them. How about a planet who is just in phasis? What places it will rule? There is pretty much to say on the subject. In Adoph Hitler chart, from my point of view, Kronos is the Kurios.
Thank you, Marius!
It's hard to grasp all these Hellenistic techniques at first glance.
I think I'll try to find Porphyrius texts translated into my native language.
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  #33  
Unread 02-23-2014, 07:07 PM
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Re: Almutem Figuris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius Cojoc View Post
The scheme you presented, belongs to Porphyry and its slightly different than was presented by astrojin. Porphyry point us the sensitive places, where we should look out for the Kurios. There are in fact, two distinct algorithms.

First algorithm, and the most important, is reffering to the Midheaven . The remarks are very vague, because it could be also reffering to the 10th place. Why Midheaven? Because this place is indicative of actions (praxis), of ruling and leading. If the ruler of the Midheaven is not in a pivotal image, Porphyry suggest us to choose the planet which fall upon the Midheaven and which “is ruling over action in the nativity as if in a citadel”. If there isn’t such a planet, Porphyry suggest us to choose the planet which is ascending after the Midheaven (Schimdt); before the Midheaven (Holden).
Can Sun or Moon be Kurios?

Last edited by digimon19; 02-26-2014 at 04:59 AM.
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  #34  
Unread 03-17-2014, 03:01 AM
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Re: Almutem Figuris

Greetings,

I will reply you as soon I would have the time to do so. Thank you.
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  #35  
Unread 03-17-2014, 06:55 AM
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Re: Almutem Figuris

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  #36  
Unread 05-23-2019, 12:06 PM
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Re: Almutem Figuris

astrologers Chris Brennan and Leisa Schaim present a PODCAST lecture
on the ancient method of identifying the overall ruler of a birth chart
called the Master of the Nativity.
While in modern times
astrologers tend to refer to the ruler of the Ascendant as the ruler of the chart
in ancient Greco-Roman astrology the method for determining the ruler of the chart
was much more complex.
There are references to the master of the nativity
in many of the surviving astrological texts from the Hellenistic astrology tradition
although there are not many surviving discussions
about how to calculate it.
The approach that we present in this lecture
is derived from chapter 30 of Porphyry’s INTRODUCTION TO THE TETRABIBLOS
which is itself derived from a lost work of definitions by Antiochus of Athens.

During the course of the lecture
we talk about how to calculate the predominator (epikratētōr),
the master of the nativity (oikodespotēs geneseōs),
the co-master or joint master of the nativity (sunoikodespotēs),
and the lord of the nativity (kurios).
We also discuss various questions such as the arguments
for and against having one overall chart ruler,
the use of the master of the nativity to identify the guardian spirit
or daimōn by ancient astrologers and philosophers,
and the use of this doctrine
to identify more important placements in a chart.

The Master of the Nativity: Finding the Ruler of the Chart
https://theastrologypodcast.com/2019...-of-the-chart/
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