Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Traditional Astrology

Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) and excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Unread 03-27-2017, 11:51 PM
rafaella's Avatar
rafaella rafaella is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kangaroo land
Posts: 4,000
Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
can someone please explain this?

"how many planet that have dignity in the signs the sun is in, doe belong the sun, the sun applying to them, they not to them, so many husbands the woman shall have"
CA Vol III

example please

thnx
Hey Tik,

I think I got it.

My Sun is in 13 degree Capricorn, obviously Saturn and Mars are the two planets that have major dignity in Capricorn ( Saturn by domicile and Mars by exaltation). There are other planets as well that have dignity in Cap, but they are more minor (Venus by triplicity and Jupiter by term). And actually both have no aspects with sun in my chart so no need to pay attention to them.

"Do belong the Sun" - I assume he means behold? in That case any signs that would aspect Capricorn and whether I have either Mars or Saturn
aspecting Sun. I do, both Mars and Saturn aspect Sun. Mars in Capricorn, Saturn in Virgo.

Sun is at 13.14 Cap, Saturn as 13.50 Virgo RX, Mars at 17 Cap.

Sun is applying to both - conjunction to Mars and trine to Saturn. Does that mean 2 husbands? But Saturn is also applying to Sun due to rx, then that means 1 husband?

So Mars would describe the husband? Lets see... still unmarried so we will find out

Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rafaella For This Useful Post:
Erickaf (06-05-2017), tsmall (03-29-2017)
  #77  
Unread 05-04-2019, 07:12 PM
Reeverie Reeverie is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

These significators of no marriage don't work, if we only count applying aspects. Separating one should be also considered.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Unread 05-10-2019, 10:19 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 48,941
Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeverie View Post

These significators of no marriage don't work, if we only count applying aspects.
Separating one should be also considered.
You OMITTED most of the technique presented

by OP OMNISPHERICUS
i.e.

04-26-2012, 04:06 AM
Omnisphericus
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 277


Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)
This is very intriguing subject isn't it?

Well, I must mention in the very beginning in explaining the methods here that they are of medieval astrology type (Bonatti, Abu Ali, Al Khayat and etc.).
To say that the method is 'Traiditional' is really using very wide range of time span in which different techniques for delineating marriage were used.
For example, the Hellenistic Astrologer's (Valens, Dorotheus and etc.) have used methods on their own, methods which I'll probably (not even later) not explain on this thread, but we can open another thread for that matter.
As this section of Traditional Astrology is quite new and in its beginnings, we now trow out the techniques here and there and title them as "Traditional". I hope that in the future we can make sub sections of traditional astrology, such as: "Medieval Astrology", "Hellenistic Astrology", Renaissance Astrology" and etc..

There are certain rules in Medieval Astrology compiled which can give quite good and workable methods for delineating marriage. The rules one can learn for a short period of time, but the practice is what is needed in order these rules to become second nature of the astrologer's intuitive tool in delineating such things as Marriage in the chart. This is what I would like to do on this thread: to practice as much charts as I/we will have the time to do it.


The Technique

The Compound Almuten is what is very practical thing in almost all methods used in medieval delineation. It seems that Bonatti and other medievals were very fond on Compound Almutens.
I will first give delineation for male charts, and in some later post will explain the delineation for female charts.

Finding the Compound Almuten for Marriage:

Find the Rulers of all 5 dignities for these places:

1. 7th house cusp

2. Lord of the 7th house

3. Planets in 7th house (if any)

4. Moon

5. Venus

6. Part of Marriage (According to Hermes) (ASC + VE - SA) for Men.

The Planet which gets most points over these places is Almuten of Marriage.
But consider also if there are impediments to these places.
If there is affliction to 7th house (by some Malefic's square or opposition), to the Moon (aspect, combust, cadent, retrograde and etc.)

See if one of the individiaul Almutens over these places is joined to the Lord of the Ascendant or its Almuten or the Lord of the 7th or its Almuten.
If they are in trine or sextile, and if especially in reception, then the native will rejoice in living beautiful life with his wife according to his desire.

But if the aspects were without reception, or if the aspects were square or opposition, then the significations will be judged lower.

Bonatti:
Quote:
But if the lord of the Ascendant were joined to the lord of the 7''', so that the former were lighter than the latter, it signifies that the native will want to copulate with women. If indeed the 7'h sign were Cancer or Scorpio or
Pisces or there were a conjunction of the lord of the 7
th or its Almuten with the lord of the first or its Almuten in these (signs) or from these (signs) or with one of them, it signifies that the native will have many wives or a great number of other women. If however you find the contrary, you are able to judge otherwise."

Example:


This is the chart of Akihito, Emperor of Japan

His chart is given on astrodatabank site as a chart of a man with successful marriage.

First we make Compound Almuten for these places:

1. 7th House Cusp at 28 Gemini:
Mercury 5, 3,
Saturn 3, 2
Jupiter 3
Sun 1

2. Ruler of 7th, Mercury in 16 Sag
Jupiter 5, 3
Sun 3
Saturn 3
Venus 2
Moon 1

3. Planets in 7th - there are no planets here

4. Moon 20 Pisces
Jupiter 5
Venus 4, 3
Mars, 3, 2, 1
Moon 3

5. Venus 15 Aquarius
Saturn 5, 3
Mercury, 3, 1
Jupiter 3, 2

6 Part of Marriage at 29 Sag
Jupiter 5, 3
Sun 3
Saturn 3, 1
Mars 2

Total:
Mercury 12
Saturn 20
Jupiter 29

No need to calculate further, Jupiter is Almuten of Marriage.
Look how strong is that Jupiter up there on MC.
He is receiving the Sun by sextile and the Part of Marriage on the Ascendant.

7th house cusp not impeded.
Its lord - Mercury, cadent (but in the first sign), not afflicted by Malefic's square or opposition, not by combustion.
Moon - not afflicted.
Venus - Saturn receives here in Aquarius.
Part of Marriage not afflicted, but indeed highlightened by ASC and Sun.

Lord (and also Almuten) of the 1st, and the Lord (and also Almuten) of the 7th are in Sextile. Jupiter receives Mercury.

Quite fortunate chart for marriage.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Unread 05-10-2019, 03:58 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,250
Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaella View Post
Hey Tik,

I think I got it.

My Sun is in 13 degree Capricorn, obviously Saturn and Mars are the two planets that have major dignity in Capricorn ( Saturn by domicile and Mars by exaltation). There are other planets as well that have dignity in Cap, but they are more minor (Venus by triplicity and Jupiter by term). And actually both have no aspects with sun in my chart so no need to pay attention to them.

"Do belong the Sun" - I assume he means behold? in That case any signs that would aspect Capricorn and whether I have either Mars or Saturn
aspecting Sun. I do, both Mars and Saturn aspect Sun. Mars in Capricorn, Saturn in Virgo.

Sun is at 13.14 Cap, Saturn as 13.50 Virgo RX, Mars at 17 Cap.

Sun is applying to both - conjunction to Mars and trine to Saturn. Does that mean 2 husbands? But Saturn is also applying to Sun due to rx, then that means 1 husband?

So Mars would describe the husband? Lets see... still unmarried so we will find out
Not according to the original method from Ptolemy, since Mars is under the rays, even though Saturn does indicate a husband since it is morning rising (even though it is retrograde) and applying to the Sun. Saturn alone makes sedate, useful and industrious husband.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
SunConjunctUranus (05-10-2019)
  #80  
Unread 05-11-2019, 09:22 AM
Chrysalis's Avatar
Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Do not disturb
Posts: 6,201
Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post

First we make Compound Almuten for these places:

1. 7th House Cusp at 28 Gemini:
Mercury 5, 3,
Saturn 3, 2
Jupiter 3
Sun 1

2. Ruler of 7th, Mercury in 16 Sag
Jupiter 5, 3
Sun 3
Saturn 3
Venus 2
Moon 1

3. Planets in 7th - there are no planets here

4. Moon 20 Pisces
Jupiter 5
Venus 4, 3
Mars, 3, 2, 1
Moon 3

5. Venus 15 Aquarius
Saturn 5, 3
Mercury, 3, 1
Jupiter 3, 2

6 Part of Marriage at 29 Sag
Jupiter 5, 3
Sun 3
Saturn 3, 1
Mars 2

Total:
Mercury 12
Saturn 20
Jupiter 29
I don't understand the compound Almuten, how are these numbers calculated ?

And ive read though the whole thread, i just don't understand this part.
__________________
Y@ur 3ner9y intr@duc3s 7ou B3fore y@u even sp3@k
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Unread 05-11-2019, 10:09 AM
SunConjunctUranus's Avatar
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,386
Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
I don't understand the compound Almuten, how are these numbers calculated ?

And ive read though the whole thread, i just don't understand this part.
Almuten - the most dignity planet in nativitas. Counting ithe dignity of the planet through the angles, bound ruler, decans, and the sign of the fortune.

Determining whether the nativitas is a female or a male. In case for female, look at the Sun and for male, look at the Moon and then, look if any planets following the Sun (for female) or the Moon (for male). The nativitas will marry early if the luminary happen to be in the eastern quadrant and in reverse. That is what Ptolemy said and most Medieval following Ptolemy.

Not sure if 12/12 capable doing this.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SunConjunctUranus For This Useful Post:
Chrysalis (05-11-2019), JUPITERASC (05-11-2019)
  #82  
Unread 05-11-2019, 10:55 AM
Chrysalis's Avatar
Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Do not disturb
Posts: 6,201
Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Thanks, but it's more to do with the numbers, i don't understand how they are calculated.

Also 7th cusp is 28 gemini, ruler mercury, but then whats saturn/jupiter/sun got to do with it ? And what are these numbers at the side ?



"First we make Compound Almuten for these places:

1. 7th House Cusp at 28 Gemini:
Mercury 5, 3,
Saturn 3, 2
Jupiter 3
Sun 1"
__________________
Y@ur 3ner9y intr@duc3s 7ou B3fore y@u even sp3@k
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Unread 05-11-2019, 11:14 AM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,250
Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Thanks, but it's more to do with the numbers, i don't understand how they are calculated.

Also 7th cusp is 28 gemini, ruler mercury, but then whats saturn/jupiter/sun got to do with it ? And what are these numbers at the side ?



"First we make Compound Almuten for these places:

1. 7th House Cusp at 28 Gemini:
Mercury 5, 3,
Saturn 3, 2
Jupiter 3
Sun 1"
5 because Mercury has domicile and 3 because it has triangle (the Sat-Mer-Jup triangle)
Saturn has triangle 3 and term 2
Jupiter has triangle 3
Sun has decan 1

I don't agree with the above, but that is the medieval methodology.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
Chrysalis (05-11-2019), JUPITERASC (05-11-2019), SunConjunctUranus (05-11-2019)
  #84  
Unread 05-11-2019, 11:17 AM
SunConjunctUranus's Avatar
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,386
Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

OP counted the dignity of the 7th house.

They give 5 points for Mercury because the dsc in the sign of Gemini.

They give 3 points for Saturn because the dsc in Saturn's bound.

They give 1 point for Sun because the dsc in Sun's decans.

It's too complicated for noob but just looking at the total calculation. They give Jupiter as the lord Almuten of Marriage. That is the logic or procedure for calculating the Almuten.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SunConjunctUranus For This Useful Post:
Chrysalis (05-11-2019), JUPITERASC (05-11-2019)
  #85  
Unread 05-11-2019, 11:26 AM
SunConjunctUranus's Avatar
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,386
Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
I don't agree with the above, but that is the medieval methodology.
Petosiris,

Btw are you aware the OP using Dorotheus' bound?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SunConjunctUranus For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-11-2019)
  #86  
Unread 05-11-2019, 02:16 PM
Chrysalis's Avatar
Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Do not disturb
Posts: 6,201
Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
OP counted the dignity of the 7th house.

They give 5 points for Mercury because the dsc in the sign of Gemini.

They give 3 points for Saturn because the dsc in Saturn's bound.

They give 1 point for Sun because the dsc in Sun's decans.

It's too complicated for noob but just looking at the total calculation. They give Jupiter as the lord Almuten of Marriage. That is the logic or procedure for calculating the Almuten.
Its not too complicated for noob. I just needed it explaining as to what these numbers were representing with regards to the almuten calculation, OP never mentioned this.

You've managed to explain it here quite clearly, so Thankyou.
__________________
Y@ur 3ner9y intr@duc3s 7ou B3fore y@u even sp3@k
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Chrysalis For This Useful Post:
SunConjunctUranus (05-11-2019)
Reply

Tags
delineating, marriage, medieval, method

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Marriage indicators in Horary BobZemco Horary Technique 21 02-07-2019 05:16 PM
What sort of person should I date in the future? Potchari Read My Chart 11 03-19-2012 02:11 AM
An epiphany about horary misskitty Horary Technique 26 05-03-2011 03:57 PM



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.