Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Predictive Astrology > Transits

Transits Transits are the most used predictive astrology technique. This sub-board is dedicated to them.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 11-29-2005, 04:07 AM
Amazon1963 Amazon1963 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central FL, USA
Posts: 85
Pluto Transits

Since I keep seeing references to several members remarking about Pluto transits....thought for organization purposes that a discussion thread be started...

Sag 8 degrees rising here...Pluto transiting my 1st house since around 1995. Squares and oppositions: Pluto opposition Sun; Pluto square Moon; Uranus opposition Pluto, etc and so on...I dont have the author of the following...this is from early notes I made on transits:

Pluto: Pluto symbolises complete change and transformation ~ not suddenly like Uranus but slowly, profoundly and with a focus on the very depths of our beings. It brings strength and intensity to whichever area of our lives it touches. Pluto transits question the central tenets on which we have built our existence and why we behave in the ways that we do. They bring hidden psychological baggage to the surface ~ allowing us to review and to rebuild matters from a fundamental standpoint. Outmoded yet deeply conditioned psychological and emotional responses are frequently notable candidates for such.

Pluto transits often confront us with highly sensitive topics which we would rather ignore, so it's effects can be very difficult whilst we are working through them. Issues of control, manipulation, jealousy, possessiveness, dominance and power are frequent. This planet can engender a very ruthless response, so attitudes which take no account of the feelings of others should certainly be avoided. It's entry into a house is often associated with destruction and with decay, yet in time a new order will arise providing that Pluto's essential challenges are squarely addressed.

Inappropriate resistance will generally prove useless anyway. It will usually only serve to extend and to prolong this planet's more difficult effects!


PLUTO TRANSITING YOUR 1ST HOUSE (approx. 14-30 years duration)
During this period you may desire increased personal power and physical invulnerability. You may transform your personal appearance and personal expression several times. You may increase your will power, self-confidence, and personal resourcefulness through physical or competitive activities. Through stages of self-improvement you cast off your vulnerable or threatened self- image and assume a stronger, more autonomous persona.


10 years of having Pluto transiting my 1st house has resulted in an 'armed truce' with the planet. I might add its effects on my psyche, reactions, feelings and perspective have been profound (thats putting it mildly :roll: ). As a side note, it was during this time that I earned the nickname, Amazon. Yep, friends and family really do call me Amazon.

The power issues in my personal life have been about 'others', specifically their attempts to manipulate, exert control or to totally dominate me and my reactions to their efforts. I would also like to note that if you ever have to deal with some of the oppositions and squares that I have had in the last 2-3 years and are still occurring presently in my chart...May all the blessings of the universe fill you with more patience for others and yourself than you ever thought possible. Cuz yer gonna need lots of patience...

Interestingly, over the past six days or so, I have been pondering this very subject and reviewing journal entries. Had a great 'aha' moment too...I took a special work assignment in another state 2 years ago to 'get away' from what I thought at the time was dysfunctional family dynamic.

LOL! Guess what I learned? You might move or remove yourself from what you may perceive as the source, but your transits chase you regardless!! In the new state I found the same Pluto issues just with different people. At the time I was unaware of natal charts or transits and have now become aware. So it was actually the energies and reactions I carried within myself that brought out issues in another location.

You cannot change people or events. But you can change how you react to them, positively or negatively. You can change your thoughts not theirs. One of the most important lessons I have learned since Pluto came to visit my 1st house.

So, this Amazon keeps her plutonian charged arrows of assertion lightly sheathed, chooses her battles wisely, welcomes the challenge of introspection and personal growth, follows her own path regardless of what others would attempt to dominate, and realizes that a little bit of Pluto goes a very long way.

And so...where is Pluto transiting in your chart?

Amazon

Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Amazon1963 For This Useful Post:
geminimoon83 (02-13-2015), gismeu (11-16-2014), Jamisyn (06-01-2012), junoisuppose (02-01-2017), Nadineday (02-22-2014), patati (06-01-2019)
  #2  
Unread 11-29-2005, 08:00 PM
C1's Avatar
C1 C1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: coast Salish waters & land
Posts: 254
Amazon,
:roll: Thank you for affirming that this current Pluto transit
is
potentially one of the paramount experiences
of my lifetime! 8)
On International Women's Day, 1995, I arrived in a
new city...halfway across the country,
with retrograde Pluto newly arrived in early degrees
of my 12th house, in Sagittarius,

so, for the past ten years the deep transforming
consciousness-shift of Pluto's transit
has taken hold of me (wrapped me in a cocoon of
transformation).

The effect: I am being forced to perceive
how I throw my personality around....an individual
within groups/family/society/culture...instead of
deepening my integrity and finding the true source
within.

So for me, I experienced flings with "the terrible girls":cry:

and sad relationship break-ups,

and misgivings after working for folks who were rich enough

to exert a kind of cult-ish, "collective ego" control

over their retinues....and realizing how I was losing touch

with my inner truth,

and how that truly destroyed the possibility of

becoming an effective human being in a solid

loving/working relationship with other people

of integrity and common vision.

Now, daily staying in touch as best I can

with the

source of love....

I see that the past few years have really

been an initiation

period...

(spiritual "timed release" transformation -- thanks Lapis!).

Pluto has crossed my natal chiron, crossed my Ascendant and

entered my 1st house....I've had Jupiter preceding Pluto in the

12th House, transiting natal Chiron, Ascendant and then onward....

I've had a chiron transit and lots of fire-in-heaven astrological

burning away of the chaff....

Hmmmm...let's see....you said,
Quote:
Pluto: Pluto symbolises complete change and transformation ~ not suddenly like Uranus but slowly, profoundly and with a focus on the very depths of our beings. It brings strength and intensity to whichever area of our lives it touches. Pluto transits question the central tenets on which we have built our existence and why we behave in the ways that we do. They bring hidden psychological baggage to the surface ~ allowing us to review and to rebuild matters from a fundamental standpoint. Outmoded yet deeply conditioned psychological and emotional responses are frequently notable candidates for such.

Pluto transits often confront us with highly sensitive topics which we would rather ignore, so it's effects can be very difficult whilst we are working through them. Issues of control, manipulation, jealousy, possessiveness, dominance and power are frequent. This planet can engender a very ruthless response, so attitudes which take no account of the feelings of others should certainly be avoided. It's entry into a house is often associated with destruction and with decay, yet in time a new order will arise providing that Pluto's essential challenges are squarely addressed.

Inappropriate resistance will generally prove useless anyway. It will usually only serve to extend and to prolong this planet's more difficult effects!

PLUTO TRANSITING YOUR 1ST HOUSE (approx. 14-30 years duration)
During this period you may desire increased personal power and physical invulnerability. You may transform your personal appearance and personal expression several times. You may increase your will power, self-confidence, and personal resourcefulness through physical or competitive activities. Through stages of self-improvement you cast off your vulnerable or threatened self- image and assume a stronger, more autonomous persona.

10 years of having Pluto transiting my 1st house has resulted in an 'armed truce' with the planet. I might add its effects on my psyche, reactions, feelings and perspective have been profound (thats putting it mildly ). As a side note, it was during this time that I earned the nickname, Amazon. Yep, friends and family really do call me Amazon.
I'm still in the cocoon, being transformed,
and as we ride along with sun and pluto to
GC, I feel that the mass consciousness may become
involved....

We're just lucky enough to have Pluto transiting our 1st house
:roll:

Thank you for this eye-
and heart-opening post, Amazon!
I just had to respond.
Journaling is a great idea, too.
Much appreciation.....
C1
__________________
*Truth is the Heart of our Sun*
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 11-29-2005, 09:47 PM
Summery Joy's Avatar
Summery Joy Summery Joy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cairo, Egypt.
Posts: 1,591
Send a message via MSN to Summery Joy
Re: Pluto Transits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazon1963
You cannot change people or events. But you can change how you react to them, positively or negatively.
Yup. When the weather person tells you that tomorrow is going to be cold and probably rainy, you can either choose to stay at home or dress appropriately and take an umbrella just in case. It's not the weather's problem how you react to the news

Pluto entered my 7th house in 1995 and it's still there. I honestly do not know what to make of such transit especially with the conj with natal Neptune and opposition to natal Juno that are in effect as we speak.

Also, Pluto is about to enter my 8th house. That should be good right? It's like Pluto's natural habitat.

Anyone cares to take a shot at it?
__________________
It's important to distinguish between means and ends.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 11-29-2005, 09:56 PM
wilsontc's Avatar
wilsontc wilsontc is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,636
Power

Heart,

When transiting (planets in the sky) Pluto (transformation, also power) moves through our 8th house (transformation, also power) it is a time when we have the opportunity to focus on and build our power. However, if we do not use our power, we will frequently find that others are willing to use our power FOR us. This can result in our giving up our power to others. At the time of this Pluto transit, there may be issues of control and power which demand us to keep and use our own power.

Powerfully,

Tim
__________________
To learn basic astrological chart interpretation for your chart see:
http://learnaboutyourastrochart.jimdo.com/
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wilsontc For This Useful Post:
ashriia (05-11-2015), junoisuppose (02-01-2017)
  #5  
Unread 11-30-2005, 01:39 AM
Elianah's Avatar
Elianah Elianah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wandering the G-24
Posts: 379
Hey Amazon,

All 8° Sag Risings unite! And also the Pluto in Virgo generation!

Anyway, here is a little journal of Transiting Pluto in Sag for me:

1995--Go to the Bahamas for the first time, get sick during the trip and have to return back to seminary early.

1996--Go to Israel for the first time.

1997--Stop studying at the Jewish Theological Seminary. Start working at Hebrew Union College.

1998--Start studying at Hebrew Union College.

2002--Leave Hebrew Union College and New York City and start massage training at Heartwood.

2003--Run out of money to complete training at Heartwood. Return to Des Moines, IA.

2005--Still stuck in Des Moines.

Such is life. :roll:
__________________
My 2¢ worth, take what fits and ditch the rest.

Light is only a vibration and there are vibrations faster than light.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 11-30-2005, 02:18 AM
Amazon1963 Amazon1963 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central FL, USA
Posts: 85
C1, you hang in there and be true to your 'self'. Its your life to live, your choices to make, your successes or failures, own it! Pluto helped shape who I have become and I like myself a lot better now! Of course there are many other things to consider but I emphasize the Pluto because of such depths it 'touches'. As for the GC thing? Honestly, I dont know if its my limited knowledge of astrology or I simply am not going to be a participant in the event, but I dont get it???? I'm still studying and learning so theres still some time perhaps for me to catch a ride..never know!!

Sorehearted!!!! Gosh, know what passed through my mind when I read your post? You asking for some info about when was a good time to review your resume and resign from the family business. That Pluto transit on the 8th...family power/guilt issues...you learning to be who you are aside and separate from your family. I too, have a very potent 4th house and my 'center' is my family...but is it really? Shouldn't the center of me be me? Dont I deserve to have my own life and path? Maybe I'm wrong but I sensed some similar issues that I have dealt with here. Saturn is currently transiting my 8th house bringing up more or less the same issues that Tim stated in his post (thank you Tim for your very astute interpretation as always!).

Here are my notes on Pluto transit to 8th house..remember its a generic interpretation, take into consideration your own 8th house ruler, aspects, and so on.

PLUTO TRANSITING YOUR 8TH HOUSE (approx. 14-30 years duration)
You may desire more control over security issues during this period. You may feel emotionally or physically threatened through natural disasters or forces beyond your personal control. Sexual drive and appeal is stimulated along with the survival urge. A death may motivate you to take greater precautions. You may be more involved in joint finances, corporate business, insurance, wills, inheritance, taxes, and alimony at this time.


You hang in there too!

Amazon
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 11-30-2005, 02:44 AM
Amazon1963 Amazon1963 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central FL, USA
Posts: 85
Elianah,

Coincidental...your journey was about trying to hit goals or what you felt 'called' to do. In many ways I think mine was too. Nothing came together until I acknowledged my part in all of this. That until I faced my shortcomings, which included allowing people to exploit my generous nature and desire to serve, I was never going to be fulfilled or accomplish what I needed to do for me.

You must have a Sag midheaven or Sag 9th house, all that spiritual knowledge within you. That drive to delve deeper into collective and philosophical meanings. So hows that all working for ya in Iowa? Ever consider publishing some of yourself? You have a worthy gift and are very generous and prudent with it. I hope you continue to fan the flame of your dreams, Elianah, they are worthy of you.

Either that or we gotta get you a better set of arrows, sister Sag!...

Amazon
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 11-30-2005, 04:36 AM
Lapis's Avatar
Lapis Lapis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 729
Eyeball Deep In Pluto

What a great first post Amazon1963, plus now your name makes sense too! Oh this Pluto business is really somethin' isn't it everybody? I sense the best is coming soon too.

For me transiting Pluto entered my 10th (14 Sag 40') at the end of Jan. 2001. Mercury is there at 17 Sag rx, so my Mercury has been Pluto flavored for a long while now......hope it doesn't show too much.

To go into accurate and honest full detail about what all I've experienced over the past few years would fill a book, a weird book, so I'll cut to the chase as the saying goes - but leave out the really scary negative etheric plane stuff.

Also during this time transiting Saturn (Capricorn Sun) was plowing very deep furrows through Cancer which made this whole thing like a Hollywood horror movie for me personally. I swear we should have a thread just for the deep drama of transiting Saturn through Cancer!!! This past one was just as horrible and otherworldly as the one before it in 1974-75 for me which I've even considered writing a book about.

With transiting Pluto in my 10th now I've been highly aware of all the 4th house issues also. There is little that separates the energies of the 10th/4th houses and what I've been experiencing.

'Neighbors from Hell' moved into the rental next door (around 2000) and THE TESTS started in a huge and horrible way. Most of this tale is R rated plus there were strong negative paranormal energies at play too which made these 2 transits a literal life and death struggle much of the time. Staying sane became the main goal while learning how to repeatedly face my personal fears about confronting and dealing with "Authority" figures. Like the Police, Attorney's, Court House, Environmental Health Dept., Animal Control Dept. and on and on. Prior to this I'd never thought of a demon as an "Authority" figure!!! Neighbors from Hell was an understatement, it was worse actually.

Long story short, sold that House because it was blatantly obvious that we needed to be living somewhere else (Mom had owned and lived at that house for the past 31 years!) and so we sold it and moved in June 2004. Heaven........peace, safety, quiet, no demons, no gun fire, no pit bull dogs barking 24/7, no drug addicts, no alcholic's, no male hostility and attacks from both the physical and astral, no more need to deal with idiotic police who found it easier to point the finger of blame at elder females than have to deal with younger threatening drunk males with guns. You get the picture I'm sure. There was much more but......think of all that lives in the Dark places of Pluto and Saturn in Cancer and this is what it was.

BUT after having repeatedly faced my different 10th house fears, we finally got out of there, moved into a much better place for current growth and learning. Now this Plutonian/Sagittarius energy seems to have moved to a subtler level where I'm having to readjust my place in the world. My understanding of 'who I am' is being expanded again and I'm being forced to let go of different aspects of 'me' so that larger, less "Lapis" aspects can also be incorporated into my conscious self.

I think what's happened so far is that by my facing so many of my personal fears on both the external and internal worlds/realities, my sense of self is able to expand out a couple more notches. But, once again Pluto is inching its way up to a conjunction with my Sun at 1 Capricorn and then Chiron at 4 Capricorn so there's still a whole lot of transformational work coming it looks like to me. I'm excited about this but also have my moments of mild concern too. I mean this is a never-been-experienced-before transit so..... :?: AND during all this Pluto will move across the GC!
__________________
The Fish are dead, long live the Energy Waves.

TRANSITIONS http://deniselefay.wordpress.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 11-30-2005, 11:50 AM
Elianah's Avatar
Elianah Elianah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wandering the G-24
Posts: 379
My 8° Sag is my ASC and the Moon and Saturn Rx conjunction are parked at 16° and 19°, respectively. My 9th house cusp is 14° Leo an all but 3° of Virgo reside in the 9th. Mercury is at 0° Virgo, one of its rulerships, and Pluto is at 1°, with a smidgen more of 30' between them. I also had a very long Merc Rx secondary progression that I came out of in the mid-90s (and started in my teens).

Truthfully, it isn't working for me here in Iowa. Iowa became a state in the days of Capricorn, Des Moines is a Virgo city, and my father and brother are Cappies. I know that there are root issues I need to work with and release, even if I can't resolve them, so I can move forward. There is something I need to release regarding family and that first big clan, represented by my 30th high school class reunion this coming summer. I think that is what transiting Saturn in my Cancer/Leo 8th house has been all about. T-Saturn first conjuncted my Leo Sun, then trined my ASC, conjuncted my Uranus, and is now moving back toward my ASC. Eventually it will also trine my Moon and Saturn, then trine my SN and sextile my NN, then it gets to play with my Virgo stuff. Joy, joy!
__________________
My 2¢ worth, take what fits and ditch the rest.

Light is only a vibration and there are vibrations faster than light.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 12-01-2005, 01:48 AM
Amazon1963 Amazon1963 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central FL, USA
Posts: 85
Sincerest apologies Elianah! Of course your midheaven wouldnt be in Sag if your Asc is..doh!!! I was more focused on the meaning rather than the aspects themselves. How there are so many similarities here with this group and the Sag risings for sure! How Pluto transits affect each person profoundly and somewhat differently, still the same underlying theme. Way cool stuff for this novice!

Elianah wrote:
Quote:
I know that there are root issues I need to work with and release, even if I can't resolve them, so I can move forward. There is something I need to release regarding family and that first big clan, represented by my 30th high school class reunion this coming summer. I think that is what transiting Saturn in my Cancer/Leo 8th house has been all about.
C1 wrote:
Quote:
The effect: I am being forced to perceive
how I throw my personality around....an individual
within groups/family/society/culture...instead of
deepening my integrity and finding the true source
within.
Brave insight, C1! Gotta love how strong Pluto makes us through introspection.

I wrote:
Quote:
The power issues in my personal life have been about 'others', specifically their attempts to manipulate, exert control or to totally dominate me and my reactions to their efforts.
In review of the interpretation of Pluto transiting 1st house:
During this period you may desire increased personal power and physical invulnerability. You may transform your personal appearance and personal expression several times. You may increase your will power, self-confidence, and personal resourcefulness through physical or competitive activities. Through stages of self-improvement you cast off your vulnerable or threatened self- image and assume a stronger, more autonomous persona.

Well, we still have some more time ahead of us to host Pluto on the Asc, more power plays within ourselves and others, root issues to deal with on personal levels. I plan to continue to grow and assume that 'stronger more autonomous persona' in the most constructive and positive ways possible.

A side note: Elianah, my 9th house is 16 degrees Leo through Virgo 21 degrees. Stellium in Virgo composed of Uranus 1 degree, Mars, 6 degrees, and Pluto 9 degrees, add in a bunch of asteroids also in Virgo, the exception is my Palla @ 17 Leo. Saturn Rx in Aq in 3rd opposing Uranus, Merc 0 degree in Gemini in the 6th house squaring every dang planet except Venus, thats a conjunction. I still havent quite figured all of what this means but still plugging away at it!

I still think you should consider some sort of publishing. Your keen perception of philosophies, spiritual concepts and the way you present them are very informative and enlightening. This is not insincere flattery (I despise that!), it is merely my opinion.

Great response so far on Pluto transits. I hope others gain from the posts as well. Pluto has strong influence and not just on the 1st house.

Amazon
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 12-01-2005, 02:46 AM
Amazon1963 Amazon1963 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central FL, USA
Posts: 85
Lapis???? Sounds to me like you needed an 'Amazon' as your neighbor! Sheesh! I went through something similar back in '95 when I first moved to this house. Oh my, the drama (I really dont like negative drama especially in the home arena)!

I beat em though...tenacious and righteous in the good 'fight'. Even organized and gathered the neighborhood as a collective on the issue. Tough battle but we prevailed. I even received a voluntary formal apology from the other party with a peaceful parting.

Thats a real darn shame though that you and your mother had to go through such an unnecessary time like that. Wish that you could have had the same sort of resolution as I experienced. I am glad that life has improved for you now. Sounds to me like moving served perhaps a higher purpose than just being in a peaceful neighborhood.

Astrologically, would I be correct in stating that all of your Pluto transits in this lifetime will deal primarily with the 'outer' aspects? Whereas the rest of my lifetime I will deal more with 'inner' aspects? I havent delved into progressed charts as of yet, still mastering the natal chart and basic transits here.

Lapis, you wrote:

Quote:
I think what's happened so far is that by my facing so many of my personal fears on both the external and internal worlds/realities, my sense of self is able to expand out a couple more notches.
I admire the bravery I am reading here on these posts. Takes a lot of courage to look deep inside and admit what you see there. So many of you are so very much in touch with your 'inner' self.

When analyzing the human as a whole and their reactions or resolutions to a variable in an equation, I am not comfortable with simplistic answers. I wouldnt want to say that Pluto brought about all the changes in the person, rather a collective of the natal chart and aspects, other transits within the chart, the environment and how the individual synthesizes all of these components to effectively resolve problems.

We are so very complex in our physical, emotional, and spiritual selves and yet we operate within a single form. Amazing, truly amazing when the person is able to live a lifetime of learning and hopefully reaching self actualization. I would hope that for every person.

Lapis? As Pluto reaches back into those depths, remember you will emerge a better and more insightful person than before. Enlightenment is only frightening until we understand its true meaning.

Funny story about how my nickname started..maybe one day I will share it!

Again, hope others will share their 'Pluto' experience or more enlightenment on Pluto transits.

Amazon
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 12-01-2005, 12:13 PM
Elianah's Avatar
Elianah Elianah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wandering the G-24
Posts: 379
Amazon,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I think what worries me about publishing is the "what wiil the neighbors think" factor and wondering if I have a thick enough skin to take criticism and just let it roll off my back. Perhaps that is one of the things that transiting Pluto in the 1st is supposed to teach me, especially when it trines my natal Mercury/Pluto Virgo conjunction in the 9th.

I know that the "what will the neighbors think" comes from my upbringing, primary school socialization and my Leo Sun wanting to be loved and appreciated. It is one of the reasons that going to my 30th high school reunion is important to me. I need to release the rocks from the slingshots of high school. An astrologer friend here in Des Moines says (as a friend, not an astrologer) that I don't need to go to my high school reunion if I am trying to prove something to everyone else. The thing is, I am not trying to prove anything to them, I need to prove my value to myself (precursor to Pluto moving into my 2nd house, which won't actually happen for another two and a half years). I think transiting Pluto wants to transform and transmute that image I have of myself within that defining clan setting (for what bigger clan has anyone belong to than high school?) from so long ago so I can move on to bigger and better things.

As for the thick enough skin to take criticism, perhaps transiting Pluto will also give me that. I know that the dust is still settling from the final contact of transiting Pluto with my natal Moon/Saturn Rx conjunction, so I still need to mine that for any "ah has" that are there.

I know that when I read Tim's post on Sheymr's speculation question that picked apart my response to Sheymr because it wasn't coming from a traditional "heart-centered" approach, I really bristled at that. I think that both he and I came to pretty much the same conclusions through different methods of interpretation, which I said in my reply to him. I think what stung me is being told that what I was doing was not "heart-centered." That's a big piece of shrapnell for a Leo to take, don't you think? I thought I was very measured and respectful in my reply to Tim although I alternately want to slap him silly and say "well, maybe I shouldn't be doing astrology." If I do that with one critical post, what would I do with the critiques I would get if I published trade?

I do know that my astrology does differ quite a bit from traditional astrology, especially when a traditional astrologer does "fire and brimstone" interpretations of doom and gloom. I do believe that it is important that each client receives a balance of potential positive and negative outcomes that might ensue from use of the energy. What I stress, however is that the person does have a choice in the use of the energy and how that person uses the energy will, in the long run, determine the positive or the negative outcome for the person. I think the risks that I see inherent in traditional astrology is that a client can come away thinking that they are fated to play out the energy just as the astrologer told them it would play out and then that can create a pygmillion effect and take the responsibility of the client's choices out of that person's hands. "My chart said I would do it, so I did."

To me, a heart-centered approach means giving clients information that allows for an informed decision to be made and then helping the client accept the responsibility and accountability for the choices made. When that is done, client has the ability to grow from the experience—if the client so chooses, of course.

My 2¢ worth, take what fits and ditch the rest.
__________________
My 2¢ worth, take what fits and ditch the rest.

Light is only a vibration and there are vibrations faster than light.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 12-02-2005, 04:18 AM
Amazon1963 Amazon1963 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central FL, USA
Posts: 85
Elianah,

Pondered your last post for a bit. Really feel compelled to have some input on some of what you are 'saying'. If Pluto's task is to drag our inner issues to the surface and help us to redefine those issues then Pluto has done that for me as an individual and also has helped me to realize that these issues will always be with me. My challenge then is to continue to use the lessons in my own life and to help others if a need arises.

I hope that Pluto helps you to accomplish the same thing. Bear with me as I attempt to define a few things. Its easier for me to communicate through 'showing'. My message is much gentler that way. I have a very strong personality and opinions and it is based on fact and practical application. It is not my objective to steamroll the topic or clutter it with my habit of being somewhat 'verbose'.

First, you stated this as a personal concern, "what will the neighbors think?" and how you felt that there was an inferred criticism. This isnt necessarily a negative trait, Elianah, your reaction. It also shows pride and ownership of what you stated. Yes, you and Tim both stated much the same interpretation on the person's request. Remember the saying, "Ask 7 different astrologers one question and you will receive 7 different answers.", its about communication styles. I would further add to that statement and state that a query would also receive the same 7 answers to generic types of questions.

Robert Hand and Pelletier interpret most transits in similar ways, stressing one differing part of the transit in their written interpretations. I dont think that it means either of them is incorrect, rather, they approach from different bases of education, culture, personal communication approaches to scientific and metaphysical topics.

I would further ask this, which is more important? The message or the messenger?.

So, what will the neighbors think? Well, lets take another writer aside from this forum, Eric Francis. Now, I know many follow his writings and theories, thats wonderful! I have been reading his columns for quite some time. I dont read them for his geo-political views either. I happen to think he's very misinformed on the topic. I further think he's great at maligning government systems and identifying the problems as he views them, yet offers no pragmatic, practical application to solve the problems that he is so well versed in defining. (anybody can criticize and whine but its real leaders who can solve) Yet, the basis of his messages in astrology does help to reveal some epiphanies and understanding in the readers. That represents the larger and more positive aspect of his 'message'. I would hazard a guess that Mr. Francis has had to field his share of critics and naysayers on both his geo-political views and his interpretations of astrological topics. I would further suggest he wouldnt give a flying fig about my opinion of his geo-political views either, as his readers continue to read and he continues to write.

You have your own unique way of presenting your 'message' and that is not a right or wrong style. If you presented it as factual when indeed it wasnt, then it would be wrong and deserving of harsh criticism. You show your higher education by prefacing your statements and theories so that the reader understands the 'message'. Your patience and interest in educating the reader is very apparent to me. You have always exhibited patience with the individual.

This is where I decided to encourage you to seek some sort of publishing objective. As this millenia progresses and astrology is embraced with more open minds and understanding by the general public as never before, especially through the internet, there will be a major challenge ahead for many individuals to reconcile their 'spiritual' base in organized religions. As a fellow Sag rising I also believe you seek honesty in your approach and intent to teaching and projection of ideas. I have witnessed this time and again through your posts. Thats critical at this point in time. There are many out there who would seek to manipulate and twist ideals using astrology and 'new age' topics. Remember too, that astrology is more of a 'subjective' topic versus an 'objective' topic. I think you have a firm grasp on that fact as well.

I hope Pluto awakens you. I hope the transit over your Merc strips all that other stuff away. I hope Pluto helps to solve those 'inner' issues for you. I hope you do attend your 30th high school reunion with the outlook of valuing yourself and your gifts and talents more so than now. I value you and I didnt even go to high school with you! I further hope that you will continue to be the effective and instructional participant in this forum that you have always been. Lastly, I think Iowa can 'work' for you until such a time as you chose to leave or stay. You have the whole world at your fingertips. The internet represents many things on many levels to many different peoples. I believe the continued growth of the internet also represents people's thirst for knowledge and enlightenment on many topics.

Now..thats my 2 cents worth! Reading back? Its more like $.50 worth but I dont expect any change back!

Amazon
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 12-02-2005, 12:04 PM
Elianah's Avatar
Elianah Elianah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wandering the G-24
Posts: 379
Amazon,

I know that transiting Pluto is working towards that, I think... I hope that I will be able to transform and transmute that belief pattern.

I think also that when Pluto switches from Sagittarius to Capricorn in my first, I will be able to concretize and put into form with both a sturdy interior and exterior skeleton that is more the me my soul wants me to be rather than the me that the outside world has tried to form.

The real battle for me is that I did have a past life where I was a "guru" of something and I know that I misused the power that came with that respect from my disciples. I know that I really liked the power and somehow it was "absolute" over my disciples, almost to the point of completely destroying their critical thinking abilities and their ability to see that they had free choice. The energy I feel from that time is that I took their responsibility for their lives and actions away from them (and yes, I know that they willingly gave that to me also). I do not want that type of power this time and I feel that type of power corruption all around me. I look at Bush, the fundamentalist groups in all religions, and other forms of misuesd power and shudder because I know where it can lead to, and it is not healthy and for the highest and greatest good of everything that Earth provides.

I would like to be a repsected teacher but not a "guru" and we live in a time that many people are demanding "gurus," perhaps an artifact of the Pluto in Leo generation. Being at the beginning of the Pluto in Virgo generation, I can see the excesses of "guru"-ism and want to be purified and cleared of them. Yet it is so easy to be drug back into the excesses beause of my 8th house Leo Sun, my Uranus in the 8th or 9th (depending on the house system used), and my Mercury/Pluto Virgo conjunction squarley in the 9th. I haven't figured out the path of balance yet that will allow me to be a supportive, nurturing, healing teacher without the power issue coming into play. I am not here to take power and responsibility away from others, rather to give it back to them.

I haven't found the way to do that yet.
__________________
My 2¢ worth, take what fits and ditch the rest.

Light is only a vibration and there are vibrations faster than light.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 12-02-2005, 03:01 PM
Kite's Avatar
Kite Kite is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tied to a string theory
Posts: 589
Well I can relate to that one Elianah - fear of owning one's power . Might be more common than one thinks. Pluto in my 10th transiting my Saturn in Sag conjunt the MC (Napoleonic/Hitler position) and transiting my Sun at 19 Sag in 10 has definately brought these issues to the surface. In 1995 I lost my job because i let my ego do the driving. I spent the next several years going from one humbling experience to another until I finally realized that power was not the annadote to feeling powerless and that true power could only come from within.

My 30th high school reunion was a couple of weeks ago. I didn't go. I only went a couple of years to the school as I dropped out when we moved away and decided to fend or myself at 16. I still felt that need for acceptance - the frustration of the group never really knowing me or thinking they knew someone else that was not me. I saw some pictures from the event on the Classmates.com boards and my reaction was - Boy are those people OLD..and who are they..I didn't recognize one person. I realized that my time in that environment represented 2-4% of my lifespan..certainly not worth a whole lot in defining myself. The fact that I became pretty successful in the business world was certainly something I wanted to flaunt - pictues of my 3,500 sq ft house, all my media and entertainment toys, beautiful wife and daughter...how petty was that?

My last 2 years I have been in counseling dealing with OCD issues related to tying to heal my family of origin trauma. All of this came to the surface in a public way, as you stated in another post, and affected my marriage (Sun rules 7th) (Saturn rules 12th) forcing us to relate on a level of honesty, integrety and trust that we had never fully realized.
I am hoping my Chiron return will help this effort continue to evolve.

Anyway, back to the power issue - One must ask oneself: Am I doing this in service to self or service to others? That will keep your moral compass steering you in the right direction and letting go of the clamps you've put on allowing your power to flow through.
__________________
Simple ain't easy.
-----Thelonius Monk

Chart http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...pictureid=6043
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 12-02-2005, 04:37 PM
wilsontc's Avatar
wilsontc wilsontc is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,636
Apology and clarification

Elianah,

You wrote:
Quote:
I know that when I read Tim's post on Sheymr's speculation question that picked apart my response to Sheymr because it wasn't coming from a traditional "heart-centered" approach, I really bristled at that. I think that both he and I came to pretty much the same conclusions through different methods of interpretation, which I said in my reply to him. I think what stung me is being told that what I was doing was not "heart-centered." That's a big piece of shrapnell for a Leo to take, don't you think? I thought I was very measured and respectful in my reply to Tim although I alternately want to slap him silly and say "well, maybe I shouldn't be doing astrology." If I do that with one critical post, what would I do with the critiques I would get if I published trade?
In response to what I wrote:
Quote:
First, according to Elianah's method, Sagittarius, Jupiter, and 9th house have to do with speculation and risk taking in general...Now, let's look at the chart from "heart"'s perspective (the more "traditional" perspective). Using this method, Leo, Sun, and 5th house have to do with speculation and risk taking in general...
My purpose was to compare and contrast two completely different ways of interpreting a chart, both which are valid, in my opinion. In one version, yours, risk-taking is about being "expansive" in the other, sorehearted's, risk-taking is about being "self-expressive". As I pointed out, sorehearted's interpretation is the more traditional one, but your non-traditional way of interpreting also made sense. Interestingly, BOTH methods led to the same conclusion of confusion or possible deception in speculation. So much for what I was trying to say.

What I did NOT realize was that you had misunderstood my "heart"'s comment as being a comment about a "heart"ed way of approaching astrology. Instead, my "heart" comment was simply a contraction of "sorehearted"s name. I have taken to contracting people's web names, taking out anything in the name that seems to me negative...so in this case I removed the word "sore" from "sorehearted" and simplified it to "heart". I put it in quotes to make it clear I was NOT talking about a physical heart, but instead about a person named "heart". So much for communicating clearly during Mercury retrograde!

And, since I have been quoting so much from my own words, it is only approriate that I finish by quoting from your very fine words about the purpose of astrology in our daily lives (please DON'T slap me ...I am only trying to be give credit where credit is due...really! )

Quote:
I do believe that it is important that each client receives a balance of potential positive and negative outcomes that might ensue from use of the energy. What I stress, however is that the person does have a choice in the use of the energy and how that person uses the energy will, in the long run, determine the positive or the negative outcome for the person. I think the risks that I see inherent in traditional astrology is that a client can come away thinking that they are fated to play out the energy just as the astrologer told them it would play out and then that can create a pygmillion effect and take the responsibility of the client's choices out of that person's hands. "My chart said I would do it, so I did."
That is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know...as someone once said!

Apologizing and clarifying (and ducking! ),

Tim
__________________
To learn basic astrological chart interpretation for your chart see:
http://learnaboutyourastrochart.jimdo.com/
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 12-03-2005, 12:08 AM
Amazon1963 Amazon1963 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central FL, USA
Posts: 85
Wow Tim! You rock man! Thank you sir. So any sage advice on Pluto transits?

See Elianah? Its about different communication styles and throw some Merc Rx in there as well!

Thats why I like this forum, so blessed with people who respect one another and share liberally from their perspectives.

Elianah? Teaching will 'fit' you when the time is right for you, just know that others felt the same way I do. You have a talent for the written word and I am not the only one who sees it. I just happened to have a bigger mouth about it is all.

Kite,

Ok now this tickled me...
Quote:
I saw some pictures from the event on the Classmates.com boards and my reaction was - Boy are those people OLD..and who are they..I didn't recognize one person.
Thank you for sharing your experience with Pluto transiting your 10th. I am very pleased that Pluto has you 'regenerating' what is worthy and plumbing the depths of your self finding the 'truth'. Again, it takes a brave soul to look that deep, to recognize and to 'own' what's there! Much applause to you sir! May your journey continue to be fruitful and rewarding.

Alright now, thats 2 so far with Pluto transits to the 10th, 1 for the 7th and 3 for its transits to the 1st house. Anyone else care to share insights on Pluto transits?

Amazon
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 12-03-2005, 12:37 AM
Summery Joy's Avatar
Summery Joy Summery Joy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cairo, Egypt.
Posts: 1,591
Send a message via MSN to Summery Joy
Oops. So sorry my screen name caused all this misunderstanding. Until Mercury leaves its retrograde zone, feel free to call me Nora
__________________
It's important to distinguish between means and ends.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 12-03-2005, 05:24 AM
wilsontc's Avatar
wilsontc wilsontc is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,636
Pluto transformation

Amazon,

You asked:
Quote:
...any sage advice on Pluto transits?
Like Elianah, I don't want to be a "sage", but I do have a few thoughts to share, since you asked! My experience has been that Pluto (AND Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune) transits are strongest when they cross the Ascendant, Nadir, Descendant, or Midheaven. It was my experiences of these planets crossing my Nadir that really helped drive home the powerful message of astrology, that the movement of the planets in the sky really do symbolize the transitions in our lives.

The only advice I have about transits of Pluto to these points is to go with the Pluto energy, instead of trying to fight it. Pluto will rip down everything we thought was stable and secure and all we can do is to cling on to our sanity. But going through this process builds our personal power and helps us show what is REALLY important in our lives. But that wisdom can only be gained by going through the transformative Pluto process.

Plutonically,

Tim

P.S. Nice to meet you, Nora!
__________________
To learn basic astrological chart interpretation for your chart see:
http://learnaboutyourastrochart.jimdo.com/
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 12-03-2005, 12:27 PM
Elianah's Avatar
Elianah Elianah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wandering the G-24
Posts: 379
Wiping egg off my face :oops:

Lapis, do you have a good emoticon for wiping egg off the face?

ops: ops: ops: ops: ops: ops: ops: ops: ops:

Tim,

Reading the post you did and substituting Sore's name into it, I do get a totally different understanding from it. I can now see that you were doing a comparison between Nora's and my interpretation, rather than cutting down my interpretation because it wasn't "heart centered" (and where I got that phrase out of your post, I will never know... :? ) and more traditional.

I definitely rescind my wanting to slap you silly and present you with 30 wet noodles to give me 90 lashes.

Also, can we convince Mercury Rx to station and direct today instead of tomorrow? Hmmm...I wonder what degree Merc was at when I first read your post Monday. Checking....checking....it was already back into Scorpio on Monday, so it wasn't squatting on anything in my 1st house. However, it could be considered squaring my natal 9th house Virgo Mercury/Pluto conjunction that day. Interesting syncronicity...

I also noticed, by looking at the emphemeris, that Mars Rx was in waning inconjunct aspect to my ASC in approaching orb. It is now squatting directly inconjunct with my ASC. No wonder imaginary and unnecessary battlelines were being drawn. (And my solar arc Jupiter is also conjunct my ASC, so think what that does to everything...:shock::shock

The thing which still stands is my inability to take perceived criticism in stride. Until I can do that (and my Virgo midheaven wants me to be able to do that perfectly and precisely :P :P ), I will be too petrified to release anything into the general public.

Intellectually I know that this is an ongoing process and it won't improve until I actually get out there in public but tell that to my Moon-Saturn Rx conjunction in the 1st.

Living life in a perpetual quandry,

Elianah
__________________
My 2¢ worth, take what fits and ditch the rest.

Light is only a vibration and there are vibrations faster than light.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 12-03-2005, 03:00 PM
wilsontc's Avatar
wilsontc wilsontc is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,636
Going in the right direction

Elianah,

In my opinion, you are going in the right direction by posting on the grouplist. Putting your ideas "front and center" gives everyone a chance to see...and comment on your ideas. This can be incredibly nerve-racking (at least, it was for ME when I first started doing this many years ago! ), but it is the safest way to expose ourselves to criticism and different points of view.

As I mentioned in another post, I started out doing astrology postings in response to charting requests on the web. What I think I DIDN'T mention was that I sometimes created the wrong chart and did interpretations on THAT chart. I remember vividly I received one comment one day from someone who asked, jokingly, that, since my commentary on his chart included planets and points that he didn't, and never would, possess, perhaps I was using some completely different house system he had never heard of! :shock: I was SO embarrassed! ops: And I didn't want to post any more because I was entirely wrong about the chart.

But, on reflection, it occurred to me that this person has never and will never meet me. That I could still do OTHER people's charts...I simply had to check and recheck their chart information. It also occurred to me that I had to make a decision. Was I going to give up interpreting because I had made a mistake, or was I going to learn from that mistake and continue interpreting charts and learning from the experience? I decided to learn from my mistake and keep interpreting as best I could.

Today I have a web site dedicated to chart reading but, even today, sometimes I make a mistake and someone catches it (just today, in fact). So I apologize, correct my mistake, and repost. Life goes on, even after mistakes, and mistakes are the way we grow and learn. If we never take a chance we never get anywhere in life...but if we take a chance, sooner or later we will make a mistake. Which is simply an opportunity to learn some more!

Making mistakes,

Tim
__________________
To learn basic astrological chart interpretation for your chart see:
http://learnaboutyourastrochart.jimdo.com/
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 12-04-2005, 09:32 PM
Elianah's Avatar
Elianah Elianah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wandering the G-24
Posts: 379
Returning to the topic at hand...

It is interesting to note that Pluto first tried entering Sagittarius on January 18, 1995 but got sky-jacked by Rxing back into Scorpio starting April 22 and turned direct in Scorpio on August 9th of that year. Pluto went into Sag for good on November 11, 1995.

We started getting the real fundamentalist backlash across the globe after that, with the moralist preaching and impeaching (or at least trying) within the US political system that stalled out the second Clinton term. And who had heard of al-Qeda back then? It was not until after Pluto in Sagittarius got on solid footing that fundamentalism and its rigid adherence to anti-modernist dogma took sway, no matter the religious or socio-political belief system. The fundamentalists monger fear and hatred in order to prove that their belief system is the one true TRUTH and all others will be damned.

This is the dark side of the Pluto in Sag transit.

Come with me Luke, come to the dark side and we will rule together. — Darth Vader.
__________________
My 2¢ worth, take what fits and ditch the rest.

Light is only a vibration and there are vibrations faster than light.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Unread 12-04-2005, 10:56 PM
wilsontc's Avatar
wilsontc wilsontc is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,636
Legal issues

Elianah,

Keeping with that thought...Sagittarius (expansion, also law) modifying Pluto (transformation, also power, other people's money) also brought in a huge explosion of the power of law. People have started suing everyone and everything and huge amounts of money are being handed out to everyone with any sort of legal complaint...whether or not they were actually valid. Sagittarius modifying Pluto saw the rise of the "instant settlement" where anyone would settle with anyone who made a claim, simply because it was cheaper to settle than to go to court to figure out whether or not the claim was valid!

Plutonically,

Tim
__________________
To learn basic astrological chart interpretation for your chart see:
http://learnaboutyourastrochart.jimdo.com/
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 12-04-2005, 11:18 PM
Elianah's Avatar
Elianah Elianah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wandering the G-24
Posts: 379
And lest we forget, expansive journeys of power mongering by the US —Afganastan and Iraq.
__________________
My 2¢ worth, take what fits and ditch the rest.

Light is only a vibration and there are vibrations faster than light.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Unread 12-05-2005, 05:29 AM
Lapis's Avatar
Lapis Lapis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 729
"Lapis do you have a good emoticon for wiping egg of the face?"

No Elianah but I do have this one for you....

Isn't it amazing how we each get 'triggered' so as to 'trigger' other people's specific issues that desire resolution? That Aries/Libra thing I guess. Waterbearer50 and I went through something like this too recently. It's usually 'all ours' and the other person has very little to do with it actually (because its OUR old *%$#@#) and we alone must disempower the little bugger whatever 'it' is. Free up that energy and then reabsorb it back into ourselves. I know you know all this already.....just wanted to say well done. 8)
__________________
The Fish are dead, long live the Energy Waves.

TRANSITIONS http://deniselefay.wordpress.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
pluto, transits

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 02:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.