Aspects that indicates lucid dreams/+sleep paralysis ?

Hello astrologers =).
I've been thinking about this issue since my last lucid dream.
I've had 5 lucid dreams if i remember right, and a sleep paralysis once. It was not pleasant.

However, i don't really believe that sleep paralysis has anything to do with astrology since it's the same ''thing'' people see when they have sleep paralysis. But still, i wanted to ask.

Regarding the lucid dreams, i fel like there's a bond between it and astrology. My guess is that some odd aspect with neptune+ saturn (since neptune rules dreams and saturn stands for every kind of control).

... So my questions are, is there any bond between these states and astrology


and if yes; what kind of aspect indicates lucid dreams/sleep paralysis ???

Thank you,
ps.excuse my english, i wrote this quickly..

Lucid dreams:
moon in 12th.
moon in aspect to neptune.
moon in pisces.

I also think that Neptune is involved with a conscious planet, mostly moon for sleep I guess... Maybe also mercury?

Ive had strange experience with "out of body projection" before or after sleep paralysis. The sleep paralysis only lasts as long as Im stressed out by the situation. And sometimes a lucid dream seems to trigger "OBE" aswell. And I have Neptune close square to the Moon, Neptune in the 8th. Mercury/pluto conj. also aspects Neptune, sextile.

And ofcourse Neptune in the 8th, and maybe some other 12th house activity. 4th house? The water houses...

most often there are hard aspects to uranus by a conscious planet.sun ,moon, mercury and venus conjunct,squared,opposed to uranus. lucid drams can also correlate with midpoints aspects by these symbols.

rahu

Here's an article on "Strong Dreamers" focusing on aspects with Neptune and house placements:

http://astrofix.net/2010/08/21/strong-dreamers/

I've been curious about this too since, well, I don't have it but my best friend does. She is a lucidity aficionado. I've only achieved it once for about 10 seconds and then got distracted when I started flying around. My friend is at the point where she's already created different weather conditions, stuck her head through mirrors to see what was on the "other side", and now she is experimenting with freezing all her dream characters in mid-movement ala XMen. She has her Sun conjunct Neptune in Sag and the Moon (in Pisces) square Neptune. But I would think that Neptune dissolves the borders between reality and fantasy and would actually hinder a lucid dreaming process unlike other kinds of dreams like the psychic ones. Wouldn't Mercury and Saturn play a large role too if there are inherent traits in a natal chart?

Oh, im sorry to answer so late..
However, i wanted to thank you all for all of your replys!

First, i also think that theres another planet involved with neptune&moon,
im guessing on mars, since mars stand for action and the willpower of the indivudual and so on.. But im not sure.

I have some thoughts about jupiter too.. Buuuut, im not sure.

If anyone have other theories about the planets involved/ aspects, please write! =)



Wames; i also think saturn is playing a role here, since control is the keyword for saturn.. But dont know about mercury.
Your friend seem to be a very experienced dreamer, (would love to hear some cool stuff she've done in her dreams btw).
Thanks for the article, it mentioned the houses which was interesting.

And I have noticed that the signs in my planets oppose each other, it must mean something. I have my saturn in pisces and neptune in capricorn, get it? =). And my Neptune is in the 8th house aspecting my ascendant, mars, uranus, pluto and mc. The article said, neptune in the 8th and the 12th house or aspecting uranus/asc/mc (and some other stuff i cant remember were strong dreamer indicators, thats cool! =)
And umm, saturn is aspecting sun, moon, ascendant, venus and jupiter. Don't really think it matters or something..


What about you people who have had lucid dreams? What other planets do your moon/neptune/saturn aspect? Which house do you have neptune in?
Would be very interesting to hear!



With warm regards,
Thanks

No one with suggestions??

thestars said:

Wames; i also think saturn is playing a role here, since control is the keyword for saturn.. But dont know about mercury.
Your friend seem to be a very experienced dreamer, (would love to hear some cool stuff she've done in her dreams btw).
Thanks for the article, it mentioned the houses which was interesting.

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You're welcome, thestars. I found the article months ago when I was looking for dreams/aspects (particularly, lucid dreaming and astrology).
I'm just a beginner so I'm not sure if the experts would agree with it. And many of the traditionalist astrologers don't really use the outer planets. But I am fascinated by this subject so thanks for starting the topic.

I mentioned Mercury because in general, you have to be aware of the idea that you are in a dream. And if you're mentally exhausted when you go to sleep, practicing your skills in a dream normally doesn't happen. Saturn for the discipline and controlling your dream figures and keeping hold of that idea of dreaming. My friend's Saturn is unaspected and debilitated in the 8th/9th house depending on house system. But she learned discipline through the Marine corps and working security for many years. You said Mars and that ties into my friend's chart.

Her Mercury in scorpio in the first house is disposited by her Mars in Aries in the 6th house. No aspect between the two. But that's one of her dispositer trees. Mercury taking its orders from a dignified aggressive Mars. Her mind is stimulated by her impulsive actions/drive. She usually manipulates/triggers earthquakes or flies towards tornados, but she can't create fire up to this point. She summoned a UFO once but she didn't like it (too generic and man-made looking) and woke herself up. She stuck her head through a mirror as I said before....and recently she dove right through it then woke up.

So I'm thinking that Mars and Mercury play the largest role in her lucid dreaming experience. Her Neptune is in sag in her 2nd house of financial affairs and she is resourceful and good with money (sun in 2nd too). So I don't know how to connect that with her dreaming.

And if I'm in search of aspects/planets to something that naturally occurs in everyone (but me ). Then oh well, I'm learning as I go along. It would be interesting to see the charts of experienced lucid dreamers that have never read literature on the subject (like my friend) and see if there are any similarities in their charts.

Lucid dreams, sleep paralysis I never thougt it had anything to do with astro.

Moon in pisces, neptune opp sun, neptune square moon. (no aspect btween moon and sun, orb 12 degrees, thou).

I´m aware that I am in a dream. Sometimes I think a lucid dream is a ghost, or vision. Does it really matter. Mercury sextile moon.

Wow, this is an interesting thread! I never thought of myself as a lucid or strong dreamer but I guess I am. Thanks for the link Wames!

I have several aspects to my neptune (sun, moon,mercury and ascendant). Its in my 1st house and is very strong in my chart. I feel it all the time. I have several of the points mentioned in the link. The ruler of my 12th has aspects to my Neptune too.

I tend to remember the details of my dreams and they are mostly pretty scattered (I just call them weird). When others tell me about their dreams, they seem to follow an actual story that makes sense. Mine, almost never. I am shocked if I have a dream that seems like a normal storyline. Even better if it is a good dream meaning to me one where I don't wake up and feel like I have been running in my sleep.

I almost never sleep throughout the whole night and wake up several times remember where I "left off" in my dream and if I like the way the dream is going than I will try with my imagination to "push" it a certain way in how I would like to be go in the next "scene" (lol). It often works but only if I can fall right back asleep again. If I don't, I often start up with a different dream (darn).

I don't know if that is considered lucid dreaming or not. I don't know that much about it other than that people practice it to remember their dreams and often get up and write their dreams down. I don't do that. I know that dreams rarely mean exactly what they play out and it is all symbolic. So for me just trying to remember certain parts and than figure out the symbolism if I can.

queenfluff said:

Wow, this is an interesting thread! I never thought of myself as a lucid or strong dreamer but I guess I am. Thanks for the link Wames!

I have several aspects to my neptune (sun, moon,mercury and ascendant). Its in my 1st house and is very strong in my chart. I feel it all the time. I have several of the points mentioned in the link. The ruler of my 12th has aspects to my Neptune too.

I tend to remember the details of my dreams and they are mostly pretty scattered (I just call them weird). When others tell me about their dreams, they seem to follow an actual story that makes sense. Mine, almost never. I am shocked if I have a dream that seems like a normal storyline. Even better if it is a good dream meaning to me one where I don't wake up and feel like I have been running in my sleep.

I almost never sleep throughout the whole night and wake up several times remember where I "left off" in my dream and if I like the way the dream is going than I will try with my imagination to "push" it a certain way in how I would like to be go in the next "scene" (lol). It often works but only if I can fall right back asleep again. If I don't, I often start up with a different dream (darn).

I don't know if that is considered lucid dreaming or not. I don't know that much about it other than that people practice it to remember their dreams and often get up and write their dreams down. I don't do that. I know that dreams rarely mean exactly what they play out and it is all symbolic. So for me just trying to remember certain parts and than figure out the symbolism if I can.

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Hi Queenfluff. You're welcome. I don't know what your Mercury/Neptune aspects are but my only major aspect to my Mercury is a square to Neptune. There is a write-up on the education board about it (Mercury-Neptune) and it really resonated with me. I think my first memory on this planet when I was an infant has a Neptunian vibe. My mother was rocking me and singing me a lullabye and I was visualizing her words with pictures in my head. I had an odd OBE happen then too.

I have similar dreaming habits as you. Pockets of remembering after waking and I've also had that very rare opportunity of falling back to sleep and continuing where I left off. The only difference in lucid dreaming is you know it's a dream. In my case, which only lasted briefly, I was walking out of school and I turned to my anonymous schoolmate and said, "I am in a dream, aren't I?" She looked at me funny but didn't respond. So I decided to fly. I wanted to try some things that I can't do in real life. But once I started looking around at the scenery I lost the thought that I was dreaming. So I was back to a fuzzy/hazy scattered dream again. My problem is that dreaming feels like real life to me or a little bit like Zhuangzi's Butterfly Dream parable so I lose perspective. I don't know what triggered the comment that I made about being in a dream. But I haven't been able to do it since.

queenfluff said:

I tend to remember the details of my dreams and they are mostly pretty scattered (I just call them weird). When others tell me about their dreams, they seem to follow an actual story that makes sense. Mine, almost never. I am shocked if I have a dream that seems like a normal storyline. Even better if it is a good dream meaning to me one where I don't wake up and feel like I have been running in my sleep.

I almost never sleep throughout the whole night and wake up several times remember where I "left off" in my dream and if I like the way the dream is going than I will try with my imagination to "push" it a certain way in how I would like to be go in the next "scene" (lol). It often works but only if I can fall right back asleep again. If I don't, I often start up with a different dream (darn).

I don't know if that is considered lucid dreaming or not. I don't know that much about it other than that people practice it to remember their dreams and often get up and write their dreams down. I don't do that. I know that dreams rarely mean exactly what they play out and it is all symbolic. So for me just trying to remember certain parts and than figure out the symbolism if I can.

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This is what I experience too. Lots of dreaming through the night, knowing I'm dreaming, waking up a few times too then continue dreaming. If it's something I don't enjoy dreaming I just stay awake a few minutes longer (drink some water and walk to the loo and back) and then I'll dream something else most of the time. My dreams are all symbolic too and confusing. But most of the time I find there is just a central theme which my rational mind grabs and find very fascinating and true. I don't analyse the dream at all. That would be a waste of time for me.

I just think of that small central theme of the dream and that is quite meaningful. I don't write dreams down. I don't try to remember them and I don't remember them at all 30 min later or at any other time soon after.

I try not to hold on to dreams. I take the central theme and work with it if I feel it's useful, letting that go quickly as well. This works for me. I feel this is connected to my Moon bi-quintile Neptune.

Wames said:

Hi Queenfluff. You're welcome. I don't know what your Mercury/Neptune aspects are but my only major aspect to my Mercury is a square to Neptune.

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I actually don't have any Mercury to Neptune aspects but I have several prominent aspects that are listed on that link you gave on Strong Dreamers. Neptune is a big focalizer in my chart because it is in my first house and has aspects to several personal planets.

Neptune Contacts

-Contacts between Neptune and the Sun or Moon: I have Neptune trine Sun and conjunct Moon.

-Neptune in the 4th, 8th or 12th house: I don't have this but my Neptune is very close the the end of my 12th house. My 4th house cusp is Pisces so I guess Neptune would be ruler of that house for me.

-Neptune in aspect to the ruler of the 12th house: The ruler of my 12th house is Scorpio which is also my ascendant. They are conjunct within 10 degrees.

-Neptune on an angle or in aspect to one of the angles (ascendant, IC, MC or descendant): Again I have this as above

- Neptune as the ruler of the 12th house: I don't have this one as I think Pluto would be my ruler since my entire 12th house is in Scorpio

Anyhow, I have most of the points in that link. The descriptions for Sun?Neptune and Moon/Neptune are ones I very much related too. My chart is attached.

Flowergirl said:

This is what I experience too. Lots of dreaming through the night, knowing I'm dreaming, waking up a few times too then continue dreaming. If it's something I don't enjoy dreaming I just stay awake a few minutes longer (drink some water and walk to the loo and back) and then I'll dream something else most of the time. My dreams are all symbolic too and confusing. But most of the time I find there is just a central theme which my rational mind grabs and find very fascinating and true. I don't analyse the dream at all. That would be a waste of time for me.

I just think of that small central theme of the dream and that is quite meaningful. I don't write dreams down. I don't try to remember them and I don't remember them at all 30 min later or at any other time soon after.

I try not to hold on to dreams. I take the central theme and work with it if I feel it's useful, letting that go quickly as well. This works for me. I feel this is connected to my Moon bi-quintile Neptune.

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I don't usually analyze mine either but I do like to remember them and wonder why I dreamed that. Like you said - to figure out a central theme because they are just too abstract - lots of symbolism I guess (which I like but I don't bother to pick it apart too much). They are honestly too weird to write down most of the time - at least, the whole thing. Fragments are more what I would write down if I did but I never have. I sometimes think some of the stranger parts all put together could make a good novel someday. I love it when I can 'control' the dream too. I actually look forward to going to sleep just because I CAN do that sometimes. It is almost like living out a fairy tale they way I want.

I'm so glad I found this thread.. I was going to start a new one otherwise.
For anyone interested in learning more about lucid dreaming check out books by Steven Laberge.. or better yet.. pm me and ill send you a digital copy.

I have been interested in lucid dreams since pretty much exactly when Neptune came into orb of my Natal Moon. I frequently have had lucid or semilucid dreams, obes, and am familiar with altered states of consciousness and planes of existence. I have always had strong recall (though sometimes with dry periods). Sometimes I'm just plain lazy about it but I always come back to being in awe and grateful for the experience.

Since tr. Mars is stirring up my 12th my recall and lucid frequency has greatly increased. I'm sure tr. Neptune in Pisces is doing its part on the collective scale for everyone as well.

Personally, I have the 4th, 8th, and 12th in water signs.
Neptune is in Sagittarius, conjunct Jupiter in Capricorn, in the 5th. This conjunction is in a Grand Trine with Venus and the Midheaven.

Neptune itself is the Ruler of my 8th and is aspected to the Rulers of the two other water houses.. semisquare the Moon (ruler of the 12th) and sextile Pluto (Modern Ruler of the 4th), and (just in case) semisextile Mars (trad. Ruler of the 4th).

I definitely would have to say that the Neptune-Jupiter conjunction is crucial to my experiences in this realm.
Jupiter is the planet of 'consciousness' proper. As far as lucid dreams go I'd say Jupiter's role as Awareness and Light Consciousness and Teacher is much more influential than Mercurys.
Saturn and the Moon are no less Pivotal, with the discipline required for dream mastery attributed to Saturn and the Form of our Dreams themselves as the Moon.

Natal Chart

I have had lots of lucid dreams but they are triggered by what I do during the day . If I focus on being aware of my bodily sensations,breath etc during several days then I'll definitely be aware when I sleep. The problem with me is that I had powerful lucid nightmares which seem to resemble one another - I'm in a prison, concentration camp,it's war etc. I searched the solution to this problem years ago because I needed to sleep and I wanted to experiment being more aware of myself during the daytime and I found a Zen monk who advisen me I should practise zazen. I started and indeed it is very helpful. The problem connected to it is that it's harder than it looks but it completely destroys my nightmares. There has always been a dark territory inside my dreams which I am afraid of and attracted to and I feel that one of my goals in this life is to go there one day and bring some light. (I don't feel ready yet). The fear of my dreams leads me sometimes to purposely try NOT to be aware of my sensations during the daytime as I observed the lucidity during the day leads to lucidity during the night. I have NO idea why some people go to having fun in a dream and I go to execution row. I have Lilith conjunct Mars and very close to Pluto all in the seventh house. I thought that maybe indeed I lived some wars in the past lifetime. As a kid I didn't have lucid dreams but I had constant nightmares about being a soldier in the war and killing people!(That made me also not to defend myself physically under no circumstances for fear of feeling guilty or becoming "the bad guy"). It completely matches with the description for Lilith conjunct Mars - http://www.astrotherapy.eu/BlackMoon.htm - A closed Lilith-Mars denies self-survival instincts. In my case, it was blocked with guilt for things done in a dream! I felt so guilty that perhaps this is one of the reasons for which I am a doctor now. (I analyzed my real life as a child but the guilt seem to come even without any plausible reason.)

Going back to lucid dreaming, I have Moon in Pisces,in the 12th,making a square with Neptune and lots of ather aspects with other planets. Neptune is retrograde in Sagittarius in the 9th and I travelled a lot in my dreams and I am more interested in those travels than those in the real world.
I attached the chart in case you want to see more. I try to practise awareness both sleeping or not and I hope that one day I'll solve and understand the problems related to my dreams.

bubuza_dulce,
I can see why you might have a lot going on at night.
Your Moon is aspected to every planet in your chart except the Sun and Mars, and is the final dispositor of every planet except the Sun. This means that the Moon is a kind of catchall where practically all of the energy present in your life eventually ends up at some point or another.

On top of that, the Moon is in a Grand Trine (Water) with Mercury and Uranus, and in a Grand Cross (Mutable) with Neptune, Saturn, and Venus.
Also, Pluto is Quincunx (inconjunct) the Moon.

These configurations are complex (to say the least) and I feel like someone else might have better insights than me but it's pretty clear that your dreams are charged with more psychic energy than your waking hours.

With Mars and Pluto opposed to your Aries Ascendant its probably easy to feel like you need to protect yourself from the Others and this could create a kind of automatic defense mechanism.. like you had said, you sometimes purposely avoid awareness during the day in hopes you can escape the terrors of the night.

Your Sun in Leo in the 5th house definitely brings a different kind of energy to the table. It's not aspected, except by a wide sextile to Mars, so it probably doesn't interact much in your dealings. However you would do well to try and cultivate this energy and use it more often. It's a strong, independent, and above all courageous position. You mentioned that you feel like you someday will have to bring light into the dark area of existence.. well your Sun placement is most definitely the LIGHT in your chart. Leo is a Leader and a Brave Warrior. I think that perhaps you might benefit from seeing yourself less as a victim or helpless witness of these dreams, and start to envision yourSELF not only as the one with the Strength and Courage to conquer these dreams, but as the Creator of the dreams themselves. Imagine that you find yourself in these war dreams again tonight, but this time you are not afraid. Perhaps it's because you have brilliant Gold-Plated armor to protect you and reveal all shadows. Or maybe it's because you realize that all the other people in your dream are afraid of your power so they surrender to you.

These experiences may be coming from the collective consciousness, but they are in YOUR dreams, and in Your dreams, YOU are boss.

PS: If you would like a copy of a book that could help you confront these nightmares without fear, private message me.

Aaronmcc11,
Thank you for the answer. I know how to create realities in my dreams. I've done this since I was a child. I can create weapons to battle my enemies, I can change my appearance or create a totally different landscape. And I can play for hours with the things I create or admire their beauty. But NOT in a very lucid dream. Some rare dreams seem very material in substance though I know every second that I am dreaming and where is the bed or what I did the day before. And I know that they are all projections of my mind. But it doesn't help. For instance in a dream I was naked at night in the woods bathing (!) and a pack of dogs came running to me. I started - you're nothing but a projection of my mind, you're nothing but a projection of my mind,...until I burst into laughter! I mean,to know the things you did during a day and to know how people look at you - like a "respectable" person, and then, naked, in the woods?? In the end I told them - ok, just go, don't look so silly at me, I am your creator and if you upset me I'll just make you all disappear! So this wasn't really a nightmare but it just shows my lack of control - I couldn't have made them disappear, but making them go away it was good also. So, I'll tell you just a little bit more of this dream. A voice from above (exactly like that) told me - so what are you doing at nights in the woods? I replied - well, it's my dream and monsters are basically everywhere so what's the difference. But the voice said - yes, but wouldn't it be easier to deal with them if it were day?. I said - er,maybe. Then make day, he said. So I visualized the Sun rising and yes, the forest seemed different. After that I came across a path that lead somewhere that seemed dangerous so I just turned to a city and strolled and created clothes for myself and I had a good time.
But that's not the point. This is just avoidance. I can just not go into the dark things but I still know they're there. I want them gone. And yes, I'm attracted to the darkest point possible in my dream and I wish to go straightly there and blow it to pieces. But everytime I tried this the result was a disaster so I learned to control my urge to go there even if the rest of the dream is boring and I know as long as I keep doing this I'll be safe.

BTW, speaking about consciousness, what are the planets related to that? The Sun (not a planet, of course), Mercury, in relation with the conscious mind and what else? I mean, I want to become more aware of everything. The dreams,the thoughts,feelings,sensations of the body etc. I practise zazen from time to time, I try to become aware of myself at anytime. Where are these things in a chart? The desire to become illuminated or at least much more conscient of oneself and the potential to actually become. Of course, it's up to one's free will but it must be in the stars also. I looked over the internet but I haven't found this and maybe I didn't know where to look. Thank you.

bubuza_dulce said:

This is just avoidance. I can just not go into the dark things but I still know they're there. I want them gone. And yes, I'm attracted to the darkest point possible in my dream and I wish to go straightly there and blow it to pieces. But everytime I tried this the result was a disaster so I learned to control my urge to go there even if the rest of the dream is boring and I know as long as I keep doing this I'll be safe.

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What has happened when you tried to destroy the darkest parts of your dreams?