Magi Astrology: for Genuine, Sincere Questions & Learning about it ONLY

Inside Out Orange said:

I have chiron opposite Uranus ...

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To provide a general insight about this aspect for learning purposes, the Chiron-Uranus aspect within a natal chart, indicates a person who either shys away from, or is unwilling to marry. A good example of a person with this aspect is Oprah Winfrey, who refused to marry longtime boyfriend Steadman (they are separated now), and says that she does not want to get married in general. The funny thing about this aspect though, is that most of the people who have it do not realize, or have just not come to terms with how much they really are afraid of deep, committed intimacy, with another person (not directing any of this at you at all Orange, this is specificaly just for information purposes about this aspect).

Interestingly, once Chiron/Uranus people do have this epiphany about themselves, that is exactly the time that they may be able to make the step to take control of this anxiety, and finally be able to settle down with someone (I have a friend who just turned 43 this past year, and has only now been able to make a real commitment to someone else).

This should obviously not be taken as the standard for everyone's chart though, as it really depends on what other aspects someone has to their Chiron, and other romance planets as well. Many people who have this aspect do in fact get married (although it is quite often at a later age in their lives, such as in the case of my friend and others that I know).

The M-A definition for Uranus, is known as the planet of independence, rebelliousness, unconventionality and freedom, as well as many other symbolisms, which I will not mention right now since they do not apply to this particular question.

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Skillcoil said:

How would Magi astrologers interpret Juno conjunct Descendant, or Chiron conjunct Ascendant? Do these types of aspects have a different interpretation from other, non Magi astrology descriptions?

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Hi Skillcoil,

The Magi system that has been publicly released, does not use the same structure for charts that traditional astrology uses; there are no ascendant/descendant, or MC/IC designated points, in order to make those types of aspects to. At this time, the Magi Society wishes to emphasize the importance of Planetary Geometry to everyone, and that there is no need for a birth time in order to extract accurate information from a chart. It is because of the importance of this that they keep the ASC/MC chart structures that they do utilize, as internal knowledge for the time being.

I will post some examples of these charts to the thread in a short while, so that everyone will be able to take a look at the differences.

Skillcoil said:

Interesting. Is there a website where someone could generate their chart in Magi astrology format?

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No, there isn't, but you can however purchase the software at the Magi Society's website, or be given free software upon becoming a member.

Thanks for this topic Magnetic, it's very informative!

I have a question about Mystical triangles and Romace triangles. By the aspects below can you tell me if there is a Mystic triangle please? ANy other information would be much appreciated.

Woman's natal:
Chiron trine Neptune
Chiron Q Venus

Man's natal:
Chiron trine Neptune
Chiron conj Venus
Neptune trine Venus

Synastry

Neptune trine Venus
Neptune conj Neptune
Chiron trine Neptune
Neptune trine Chiron
Chiron conj Venus
Chiron conj Chiron
Chiron square venus
There are also Saturn aspects but none are heartbreak aspects.

Thanks in advance!

Baha said:

Thanks for this topic Magnetic, it's very informative!

I have a question about Mystical triangles and Romace triangles. By the aspects below can you tell me if there is a Mystic triangle please? ANy other information would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

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Hi Baha,

I will need both people's birth information, in order to be able to see the aspects that they make between them. You can send them to my private email if you do not want to display it on here...

Neptune Rising said:

Thank you for explaining that Sven and Magnetic, its nice to see another perspective on astrology.

Inside out Orange, I know the feeling, I have natally heartbreak clash Saturn square Chiron

Interesting thread, thanks for starting it

NR

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I am glad to hear that you are enjoying it, Neptune. Please let me know when you have other questions.

Btw, your Saturn/Chiron clash may not be panning out in your chart the way that you think it is... in other words, there are many different effects it can have, depending on the way that it is projected into an individual's chart. So it may not be what you are thinking

**raises hand

Yes, I have Chiron opposed Uranus as well. Along with Chiron opposed Pluto and Saturn opposed Uranus and Saturn opposed Pluto.

Uranus and Pluto are conjunct on one side of my chart and Saturn and Chiron are conjunct on the other.

I'm 43 so I can see how this could be somewhat generational as well.


**sorry! I just saw the post above by Magnetic. Just an observation

hello,

what if 2 people have super romantic linkage and some other positive relationship aspects and then there is a Saturn Chiron square?

also , when planning first meeting, how long after transiting saturn has squared venus can you make a date? ie how many degrees past the exact aspect?

thanx!

Baha said:

**raises hand

Yes, I have Chiron opposed Uranus as well. Along with Chiron opposed Pluto and Saturn opposed Uranus and Saturn opposed Pluto.

Uranus and Pluto are conjunct on one side of my chart and Saturn and Chiron are conjunct on the other.

I'm 43 so I can see how this could be somewhat generational as well.


**sorry! I just saw the post above by Magnetic. Just an observation

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The comment was not to disqualify the generational aptitude of this aspect, Baha, it was to provide information to help people stay on topic, and discourage this thread from becoming a place of critique. When that happens, people are less likely to 'openly' ask their questions, and have a tendency to shy away from being put 'under-the-microscope'. It can also start arguments between the participants as well, which completely disrupts the stable environment needed for learning.

Again, the Uranus/Chiron aspect and how it plays out in a chart, really depends on the other aspects to Chiron and other romance planets, that an individual person possesses. So in the case of this perception of this aspect, it really has nothing to do with the generational perspective at all.

All

I've deleted the personal comments. Can we please keep the discussion to the topic of the thread, 'Magi Astrology: for Genuine, Sincere Questions & Learning about it ONLY', and not on the person.

Thanking you all

NR

Matahari said:

hello,

what if 2 people have super romantic linkage and some other positive relationship aspects and then there is a Saturn Chiron square?

also , when planning first meeting, how long after transiting saturn has squared venus can you make a date? ie how many degrees past the exact aspect?

thanx!

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Hi Matahari,

To be fair, I would really need to see both person's birth information, in order to properly assess this specific relationship.

Generally speaking though, when there are strong amounts of positive and negative aspects within synastry, in Magi Astrology terms this is called the 'Heaven and Hell' relationship. I am sure you can tell what this may imply by the name of it. Essentially, you will have a roller-coaster type of interaction, going from beautiful high's to depressing lows.

Again, I would need to see the birth charts to be certain.

As far as the first meeting time is concerned, some astrologers advise that 1* past the exact aspect is good enough. For myself though, I know that anytime before the 3* mark, will still natalize this hard aspect to both of you in an adverse way. So I would recommend just being patient and letting this pass first, as it will benefit you immensely later on not to have extra challenges to your relationship success.

Haizea

I appreciate you had a genuine intention to add to this thread. However Haizea, this thread is about 'Magi Astrology: for Genuine, Sincere Questions & Learning about it ONLY'. It is intended for the discussion of Magi Astrology only, not for the discussion of natal astrology. I believe that was the intention of the thread being started. Therefore, as Moderators, our intention is to keep ALL threads within (as much as possible) the subject of the thread - in this case, within the topic of Magi Astrology. Also, as Moderators, we keep the dicsussions on ALL threads in the forum on the topic of astrology, as away from comments about individual personalities, because that is where feelings can easily get hurt. This is what I've deleted in this case.

Can we please get back to the topic of the thread, thanks all.

NR

I am aware that some of you already understand the concept of natalization; but for others and newcomers, I thought it best to define this theory clearly, so that everyone may be on the same page together.


THEORY OF NATALIZATION


The Magi Society's Theory of Natalization, applies to whenever anyone engages in any type of activity for the very first time.

For example, when two people meet for the first time, the birth chart of that time is the birth chart of their relationship. If the chart is positive, their relationship is more likely to be successful, than if the chart is negative.

However, there is more to natalization than just the birth chart of what is natalized. When we natalize something, we not only natalize the birth chart -- we also natalize the transits.

When we natalize anything of importance, we make permanent the transits we were having during the natalization. When two people meet for the first time, they natalize BOTH the birth chart of the day that they met AND also all of their transits at the time they met. They will continue to be influenced by those preserved transits for as long as they are together and throughout their relationship.

Preserving good or bad transits, will continue to affect us in everything we do that is related to what we natalized.

So, it is well advised to preserve the good transits you have when you get the opportunity, and to just be patient and let the bad transits pass without natalizing anything of importance.

The time orb that is considered for a complete transit to take place for natalization, is within 3* before the exact aspect takes place, up to 3* after the transit makes exact contact. There are special circumstances that can alter the frame of orb, such as what was discussed at the beginning of this thread, concerning combined geometry.

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Svencanz said:

Neptune,

The orb between Chiron and Saturn in your chart is too wide. You don't have the square.
Standard orb in MA is 3 degrees, although for one planet in synchs you can go up to 4. Even at 4, the square is "way out".

You can still empathise, though...

Sven

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Thanks Sven, it kind of reassures me, however I do really feel the pain of the aspect within my relationships and within my heritage. Not sure if there is something else in my chart that would have such an effect?

Interesting description about timing, I'll look into that

Thanks very much

NR

So for the sake of getting it on this thread for all to consider:

What is Magi Astrology's take on points (other than angles) like North/South Nodes?

How about Lilith?

Hypothetical planets?

I notice Sedna is considered important by Magi astrology for socioeconomic prediction, can you speak to that at all? Is it used for synastry as well?

And are there other asteroids or other bodies in the solar system considered significant by Magi Astrology, such as Eros or Ceres (for synastry or predictively)?

On a slightly different vein of questioning- what's with all the hebrew/semitic focus in Magi Astrology? I understand the Chaldean/Babylonian connection there and that their astrology goes waaay back, but doesn't Magi claim to descend from a Chinese Tradition? If so, why not a 12 x 5 (animals and elements) instead of 12 x 4 x 3 (signs/elements/qualities) system-- and a heavy significance placed on lunar calendar/moon Nodes?

My limited understanding of Chinese history (from studying Traditional Chinese Medicine) would make me think that since they have 5000 year old figures showing very similar accupuncture meridians as today that their astrological traditions would likewise be extremely ancient, and very likely resistant to fundamental change . . .

puca said:

So for the sake of getting it on this thread for all to consider:

What is Magi Astrology's take on points (other than angles) like North/South Nodes?

How about Lilith?

Hypothetical planets?

I notice Sedna is considered important by Magi astrology for socioeconomic prediction, can you speak to that at all? Is it used for synastry as well?

And are there other asteroids or other bodies in the solar system considered significant by Magi Astrology, such as Eros or Ceres (for synastry or predictively)?

On a slightly different vein of questioning- what's with all the hebrew/semitic focus in Magi Astrology? I understand the Chaldean/Babylonian connection there and that their astrology goes waaay back, but doesn't Magi claim to descend from a Chinese Tradition? If so, why not a 12 x 5 (animals and elements) instead of 12 x 4 x 3 (signs/elements/qualities) system-- and a heavy significance placed on lunar calendar/moon Nodes?

My limited understanding of Chinese history (from studying Traditional Chinese Medicine) would make me think that since they have 5000 year old figures showing very similar accupuncture meridians as today that their astrological traditions would likewise be extremely ancient, and very likely resistant to fundamental change . . .

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Hi Puca,

Since you have asked so many questions, I will address each in point form, so as to make them easily identifiable to everyone here.

1. In M-A, the moon is only used if certain upon having an accurate birth time, or it is not taken into consideration for the analysis. This is due to the strict adherence of the orb needing to be within a 3* radius. If accurate, the Moon does have significance, but because it is not imperative to have in order to still be able to attain extremely relevant information about whatever issue it is that you are taking into consideration, then it only makes logical sense that the nodes can only be utilized under the same conditions. So, they would more often be used for something like a business opening, where the time can be carefully recorded. One of the most important times that Nodes are used in M-A, is in their form of Financial astrology.

2. Their meanings for Lilith have not yet been revealed to the public.

3. Again, many methodologies, hypothetical planets, and high technological advances in M-A, are not shared with the public or have not been allowed to be released at this time, but may well be in the future.

4. Other little known planets, asteroids, etc., that the Magi Society consider relevant in their approach, are: Juno, Vesta, Pallas, Ceres, Sappho, and as mentioned, Sedna; which are used in natal and synastry assessment, as well as for finance. In synastry, Sedna indicates immorality and emotionless attitude.

5. Many people are not aware of this, but much of the information regarding astrological and metapyshical knowledge, was commonly shared and imported to different areas within the middle east, asia, and surrounding territories, in the distant past. Many of the methods that now appear to be 'isolated' concepts within certain nations and/or cultures, are not so much so as they would seem.

In the case of Magi Astrology, although originating with Chinese monks, their attitude towards astrological education and awareness, was and is, one of progressiveness, openess, higher spiritual insight, and the most advanced technologies available at the time.

As the strength and uniqueness of the approach of M-A, is based on their revelations of geometrical configurations, and the keys to the universe that they possess; it is plain to see that 'animal meanings' and limited elemental evaluations, just can not, and would not meet the standard.

As they do not even focus on western definitions of the signs i.e. Aries, Taurus, Gemini, etc., which describe 'monthly' births; how much less so, would 'year' definitions of animals be of worth to them... ?

6. As understood from the above, I think that it is clear that the Magi Society is fundamentally not at all about resistance to change, but about locating, identifying and utilizing, the highest means of astrological interpretation, and wisdom of the planets available to those that seek it.

Thank you kindly, Magestic7.

I am still working my way through the minibooks avaliable online and they are quite intruiging. I would agree that it is clear Magi Astrology is no stickler for traditionalism and (although I by nature tend to be, Capricorn Sun? or just me?) I think this is great for Astrology generally.

I am curious if you can detail any meanings for the asteroids etc ? By which I mean those which can be given publicly- or maybe point me in the right direction to find such meanings.

I really like that Magi uses more than one chart. I have only been studying Astrology with any consistancy for a short time. Interestingly enough when I first started I was speaking with a friend about astrology and his first instinctive response to the whole concept was that a 3 dimensional diagram of the sky would be necessary to get any clear idea of the actual geometries being formed by the planets at any given point in time. This idea nagged at the back of my skull for some time -and then one day I came across a post about Magi. Viola! 3d representation of the sky!

I can easily see how the geometries may be more important in some ways than anything else. Even with variable styles or systems of houses, signs, or what have you, the geometries stay the same.

On a slightly different topic- I have been having some difficulty attempting to understand certain natal geometries via Magi Astology or other methods. Probably the most frustrating for me currently is my own. Saturn, Chiron, and the Sun in a near perfect Grand Trine, with sextiles from Saturn and Chiron making a kite to Jupiter. All within a degree.

Seems like it should be great, but what on earth does it mean? I think part of the confusion for me lies in dealing with Saturn natal aspects. Magi says any geometry is a "gift from God" in a Natal Chart, but then they're so down on Saturn in general . . . maybe it's just difficult for me to think of Saturn in the positive. How would Magi Astrology interpet that kite for instance?

I'm onto the second minibook, wish me luck.(and understanding)

AW i m so glad i found this tread as i have been posting here for 2 years on this forum about how significant i believe chiron conjuction is in couples chart!! the only men in my life that i take somewhat seriously and that i consider somewhat more special than some average dude i m hanging out with HAVE HAD WITH ME SUN CHIRON CONJUCTIONS AND SERIES OF SERIOUS CHIRON ASPECTS. i do not know however how to interpret this but i HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCES OF THESE VERY MISTERIOUS SPIRITUAL HEALING HUMBLE INTERACTIONS THAT OCCUR when ur CHRION OR HIS CHIRON CONJUCTS UR PERSONAL PLANETS:this can not be compared to anything else in my humble oppinion.

puca said:

Thank you kindly, Magestic7.

I am still working my way through the minibooks avaliable online and they are quite intruiging. I would agree that it is clear Magi Astrology is no stickler for traditionalism and (although I by nature tend to be, Capricorn Sun? or just me?) I think this is great for Astrology generally.

I am curious if you can detail any meanings for the asteroids etc ? By which I mean those which can be given publicly- or maybe point me in the right direction to find such meanings.

I really like that Magi uses more than one chart. I have only been studying Astrology with any consistancy for a short time. Interestingly enough when I first started I was speaking with a friend about astrology and his first instinctive response to the whole concept was that a 3 dimensional diagram of the sky would be necessary to get any clear idea of the actual geometries being formed by the planets at any given point in time. This idea nagged at the back of my skull for some time -and then one day I came across a post about Magi. Viola! 3d representation of the sky!

I can easily see how the geometries may be more important in some ways than anything else. Even with variable styles or systems of houses, signs, or what have you, the geometries stay the same.

On a slightly different topic- I have been having some difficulty attempting to understand certain natal geometries via Magi Astology or other methods. Probably the most frustrating for me currently is my own. Saturn, Chiron, and the Sun in a near perfect Grand Trine, with sextiles from Saturn and Chiron making a kite to Jupiter. All within a degree.

Seems like it should be great, but what on earth does it mean? I think part of the confusion for me lies in dealing with Saturn natal aspects. Magi says any geometry is a "gift from God" in a Natal Chart, but then they're so down on Saturn in general . . . maybe it's just difficult for me to think of Saturn in the positive. How would Magi Astrology interpet that kite for instance?

I'm onto the second minibook, wish me luck.(and understanding)

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You are welcome, Puca

The universe IS 3-dimensional (actually, many more dimensions than that, but I'll leave the higher metaphysics conversation for another thread lol), which would seem to be common sense to most, but for some bizarre reason there still remain a number of die-hard mainstream astrologers, who appear to be having a very hard time getting their heads around the concept of the legitimacy and mind-altering accuracy of having 4 chart dimensions in astrology. A shame really, since they are missing out on 2/3 of the information needed in order to make a complete astrological assessment of whatever it is that they are inquiring about!

As far as asteroids and the nodes are concerned, as mentioned, many are used in M-A, yet typically have very different meanings than what some of their myths purport -- which I find very reasonable, considering that they are stories that have been built and altered over time. Whereas in the case of the planets themselves, we are talking about various mixtures of energy forms and the impact they have on unique creatures, events, and things. The nodes for instance, are often used in financial astrology, but again in the M-A perspective. As for providing you with all their meanings, I think that you will find that you will easily discover those things for yourself in a very short time

The Magi Society does emphasize that the aspects/geometry in one's natal chart, are all 'gifts' of some kind or another. In the long run however, they do not deny the fact that negative astrology will have an impact of some sort on the native and/or their life. In other words, anything the Gods bless you with at birth can be used for good, or for bad, and of course anything in between; but adverse energy is going to come out in some way at some time. Your Saturn position, however, is not creating an activation, so it is viewed as more of a bonding or constraining type of energy, rather than one of heartbreak and destruction.

So, in your case, we are looking at a person - the Sun - who tends to be rather controlling - Saturn - in some of the most relevant areas of their life, such as relationships, health, and how they make their money - Chiron - and manages to do this through higher learning and a philosophical approach - Jupiter.

Hope this gives you a handle on your kite lol and happy reading...

Magnetic7

angeldust said:

AW i m so glad i found this tread as i have been posting here for 2 years on this forum about how significant i believe chiron conjuction is in couples chart!! the only men in my life that i take somewhat seriously and that i consider somewhat more special than some average dude i m hanging out with HAVE HAD WITH ME SUN CHIRON CONJUCTIONS AND SERIES OF SERIOUS CHIRON ASPECTS. i do not know however how to interpret this but i HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCES OF THESE VERY MISTERIOUS SPIRITUAL HEALING HUMBLE INTERACTIONS THAT OCCUR when ur CHRION OR HIS CHIRON CONJUCTS UR PERSONAL PLANETS:this can not be compared to anything else in my humble oppinion.

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Glad you found us Angeldust

Chiron really is a 'planet' of wonders and miracles it would seem, and has brought a tremendous understanding about so many things astrologers did not know the answers to throughout the ages. Those positive Chiron connections we have with others, really often do make the difference between those we will click with, and those who can be a challenge for us to find a common language with, so to speak.

If you have any special questions you would like to ask, please let me know...