Joaquin Phoenix

Hi guys,

thanks so much to anyone who commented on the River Phoenix thread, and inspired by Julia Karmic Astrology I´d like to ask for your opinions on his brother´s chart.
They shared the same upbringing in cultish circumstances and both dealt with addiction. They don´t look too similar, except for the "Scorpio Vibe" Intense eyes, magnetic quality.




- Joaquin´s chart, surprisingly I thought, shows Virgo Asc. Wouldn´t that give him a somewhat naive and pure look? I thought that his charisma was almost menacing, even when he was very young. I wonder what part of the chart governs the eyes specifically, since his are so unique and they just draw me in like no one else`s. Maybe that´s just his Pluto in the 1st...

- Then I looked at Scorpio in his chart, since he just sweats that energy, and sure enought, almost a Stellium (only 3planets conjunct in the sign, but the fourth and fifth are super close). And it´s the Sun, Venus and Mars!
Concerning that (kinda-)stellium, it´s situated in his 2nd house : those planetary energies are a karmic gift to him. That sounds very positive, and though I don´t know what his financial status is, I guess that would contribute to wealth a lot?

Unfortunately, nothing balances that energy out along the 2nd/8th or Scorpio/Taurus line. I don´t know what the "vices" of the 2nd house or Scorpio are exactly, but I bet he has to challenge himself not to succumb to his obsession with that area.

- His 3rd house has Neptune and I wonder what that means for his film-related career, since neptune often represents cinema and the art of "illusion" and make believe. Could he be a good acting teacher?
Doesn´t the 3rd also represent siblings? Since I´m a River fan, I´ll tie it to him. House in Scorpio, and River had Scorpionic vibes, also Neptune, and I wonder how that all plays into the trauma of his loss? I would tie it to drugs, which might have affected their relationship and tragically ended it. I understand that it´s an extremely dark angle on chart reading, but if you feel comfortable analyzing it, I would love to read about it.

-I was super excited about his 4th house, since it represents not only the deepest self, but also the familiar environment and childhood. His childhood sounded unconventional up to abusive to me, and a little disappointed that it´s empty. But Sag on the cusp might tie to their ideologically shaped and unstable home life.

- I´m new at Astrology, but I really don´t see too much of an actor in his chart? I must be wrong because he is incredibly talented as an actor, musician, director. What I read is the Mc ruler mercury in the 2nd : lots of gains from public image and career. Also the 11th ruler (actual house of gains) in the 3rd, so profit from communication/teaching?
His 11th contains Saturn though, so maybe delayed pay back for his achievements?

Please forgive me my mistakes, I tried not to go beyond what I´m familiar with and feel free to correct me anytime. my additional questions concern his veganism and animal rights activism : where do you find that in a chart?
Also, where do you see his immense artistic talent?

Regarding his acting ability, the ruling planets of his fifth house and MC are Mercury and Uranus and they are conjunct his second house. This links his second house ($), fifth house (acting ability, and MC (fame and career). He must be extremely intelligent, charming and crafty. This is probably how he's been able to make these points in his chart work and get himself so far ahead in his life.
I think its interesting that you pointed out Neptune in the 3rd and how it could have to do with his brother River's drug addiction and overdose. I heard that his role in Walk the Line, meant a lot to him Johnny Cash's lost his brother and it impacted him. Joquin Pheonix could relate because he also lost his brother and had been with him when he died.

By the way, here is the thread on his brother River I mentioned before : http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=718873#post718873

Concerning his Muses (the link that explains the 9 asteroids and how to easily locate them : http://www.astrologyweekly.com/blog/the-muses-in-astrology/

Kalliope (writing) close to the IC in Sag close also to the NN and Neptune. I don´t know if that relates to his abilities as a writer, since it´s not the MC but the opposite place on the chart. Maybe he was deeply affected by books when he was young?

His Clio (claim to fame and place in history close to his DC in Pisces. maybe his relationships and Piscean qualities made him famous? If it applies to familiar relationships as well (which I´m not sure it does since the DC is more about partnerships), then the link to his artistic and well known family members would (!) be there.

Since he´s an awesome acting talent, I was looking for Melpomene (tragic storytelling, theater) and it trines his MC but isn´t conjunct anything important... but it´s in the 6th (together with Clio), so acting and dealing with fame are part of his daily life. Melpomene however is in Aquarius, good for acting since it´s a dual sign.

RisingSag said:

Regarding his acting ability, the ruling planets of his fifth house and MC are Mercury and Uranus and they are conjunct his second house. This links his second house ($), fifth house (acting ability, and MC (fame and career). He must be extremely intelligent, charming and crafty. This is probably how he's been able to make these points in his chart work and get himself so far ahead in his life.
I think its interesting that you pointed out Neptune in the 3rd and how it could have to do with his brother River's drug addiction and overdose. I heard that his role in Walk the Line, meant a lot to him Johnny Cash's lost his brother and it impacted him. Joquin Pheonix could relate because he also lost his brother and had been with him when he died.

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Thanks you for the link between the houses, it´s nice to hear that he has a nice personality. But would you say that that plus the loaded 2nd makes him materialistic? I feel like he gets self worth out of his ability to make profit.

(Also, I have 5th ruler Jupiter in 5th, what does that say?)

That´s interesting, and very sad for both of them. Does his chart show how that affected him? I´ve read that he had dealt with addictions too but he seems alright...

I had no idea he was River Phoenix's brother. Woa. Learn something new everyday. I agree his pluto in 1st makes him intense but boy, that stellium. I find him super sexy. And a versatile actor.

Thanks Mia for posting this chart.

If you see Joaquin perform onscreen, he seems to have Scorpio written on his forehead.
So his Scorpio stellium is no surprise at all, I agree.

The Virgo ASC, I agree is a surprise.
The interesting thing about a Virgo ASC is that they can look much younger than their real age.

This is such a strong trait, it can be used for chart rectification.
And I don't mean just a youthful appearance, but someone who may look 8-10 yrs younger than real age. Does this fit for Joaquin??

Julia

MiaMiaMia said:

Hi guys,
thanks so much to anyone who commented on the River Phoenix thread, and inspired by Julia Karmic Astrology I´d like to ask for your opinions on his brother´s chart.
They shared the same upbringing in cultish circumstances and both dealt with addiction. They don´t look too similar, except for the "Scorpio Vibe" Intense eyes, magnetic quality.

Click to expand...

River has an almost angelic look, naive and innocent. I don't think Joaquin has that naive and pure look. He is menacing in appearance and demeanor. This gives him an edge when he is portraying complex dark characters like Johnny Cash and Commodus (The Gladiator).

MiaMiaMia said:

J´s chart, surprisingly I thought, shows Virgo Asc. Wouldn´t that give him a somewhat naive and pure look? I thought that his charisma was almost menacing, even when he was very young. I wonder what part of the chart governs the eyes specifically, since his are so unique and they just draw me in like no one else`s. Maybe that´s just his Pluto in the 1st...

Click to expand...

Yes Pluto in the 1h is going to give a strong secretive and intense energy, which certainly could impact appearance. The Pluto located there could represent a childhood family death. (River)

MiaMiaMia said:

- Then I looked at Scorpio in his chart, since he just sweats that energy, and sure enought, almost a Stellium (only 3planets conjunct in the sign, but the fourth and fifth are super close). And it´s the Sun, Venus and Mars!
Concerning that (kinda-)stellium, it´s situated in his 2nd house : those planetary energies are a karmic gift to him. That sounds very positive, and though I don´t know what his financial status is, I guess that would contribute to wealth a lot?

Click to expand...

My understanding is a stellium is a grouping of planets in the same sign or house.
So it is a 2h house Libra/Scorpio stellium, and certainly is a pile-up! He has 5 planets in the
the 2 house! It doesn't matter what you call it, we are looking at significant combined energy.

And yes, in Karmic Astrology, the 2h is the karmic gift house. These energies can all be used as personal resources for this life.

Mercury= A soul with an innate intelligence and advanced mind. This can be used to understand the world and other people.

Uranus= Excellent creative thought, perhaps genius, has an innate understanding of vibrational forces and an affinity for change and transformation.

Mars= Highly developed will, courage, assertiveness.

Venus= Highly developed creativity, artistry, relationship skills.

Sun= Highly developed inner Self.

All of this, along with outer planets on the angles is showing an advanced soul.

Basically, Joaquin has a high probability of success in a number of career fields.

MiaMiaMia said:

,Unfortunately nothing balances that energy out along the 2nd/8th or Scorpio/Taurus line. I don´t know what the "vices" of the 2nd house or Scorpio are exactly, but I bet he has to challenge himself not to succumb to his obsession with that area.

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I think a nice balance is the combination of Scorpio and Libra energy in his stellium. Certainly softens his Scorpio energy and makes it more attractive to others. Scoprio does have a dark side, and yes he would have to watch out for that.

MiaMiaMia said:

His 3rd house has Neptune and I wonder what that means for his film-related career, since neptune often represents cinema and the art of "illusion" and make believe. Could he be a good acting teacher?

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3h is the house of communication, self-expression, siblings.
Neptune located there in Scorpio is going to give artistic, creative self expression with an ability to verbalize that which he imagines. It is one thing to have a great creativity and imagination, another to be able to communicate it successfully. This is further enhanced by Neptune aspected to Jupiter in Pisces and the Aries Moon. Given an added creativity and emotionality.

Yes teacher in the arts would fit.

Neptune in the 3h can also indicate a child who does not feel like he fits in with his family.
This is a soul who feels quite different from his family, almost alien. While this soul may have felt separate and unique from the rest of the family, he was probably not treated as such.

MiaMiaMia said:

Doesn´t the 3rd also represent siblings? Since I´m a River fan, I´ll tie it to him. House in Scorpio, and River had Scorpionic vibes, also Neptune, and I wonder how that all plays into the trauma of his loss? I would tie it to drugs, which might have affected their relationship and tragically ended it. I understand that it´s an extremely dark angle on chart reading, but if you feel comfortable analyzing it, I would love to read about it.

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I think you said it Mia. Scorpio on the 3h cusp with Neptune in the 3h of siblings.
Certainly describes his sibling's tragic complicated death via drugs.

Siblings are represented in the natal chart by Mercury. Mercury in the 2h is showing is that Joaquin's siblings were karmic gifts to him. And they would enhance his success in this life and in fact be a tangible asset. (I think this is the case, that River led the way in Hollywood for Joaquin? ) And started his career acting on TV with his siblings.

Mercury conjunct Mars and Uranus is showing an eccentric, unpredictable sibling prone to accidents.

MiaMiaMia said:

-I was super excited about his 4th house, since it represents not only the deepest self, but also the familiar environment and childhood. His childhood sounded unconventional up to abusive to me, and a little disappointed that it´s empty. But Sag on the cusp might tie to their ideologically shaped and unstable home life.

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There is no empty house, Mia!
Look at the sign on the cusp for information, house ruler, etc
You can also see Neptune and the North Node hugging the IC, so there is quite a bit of information there.

Yes a Sag 4h, with its ruler Jup in Pisces is showing us a home that is imaginative, creative, escapist, perhaps drug involved. This is a family who is restless, adventuresome, loves freedom and careless. The NN located here is showing that the family in some way is tied to his soul growth in this life, and that he will be searching for meaning during this life.

MiaMiaMia said:

- I´m new at Astrology, but I really don´t see too much of an actor in his chart? I must be wrong because he is incredibly talented as an actor, musician, director. What I read is the Mc ruler mercury in the 2nd : lots of gains from public image and career. Also the 11th ruler (actual house of gains) in the 3rd, so profit from communication/teaching?
His 11th contains Saturn though, so maybe delayed pay back for his achievements?

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See above for his list of talents! He could do many things well.
But the creative talent is clearly there.

Saturn in the 11h is showing karmic issues with authority figures and issues around control vs freedom. This is a soul who in past lives was too attached to rigid dogma. I guess it makes sense in this life he was born into a family who was much more free wheeling and societal rebels.

Julia

MiaMiaMia said:

That´s interesting, and very sad for both of them. Does his chart show how that affected him?

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Looking at Joaquin's chart, Mercury represents River.
Mercury in Libra is aspecting Chiron in Aries, 8h.

This is showing River as a beloved brother (Merc in Libra) whose death (8h) was a devastating blow to Joaquin, a wounding (Chiron) to the core of the Self (Aries). The harsh aspect is indicating the trauma of the death and I don't know if he has ever recovered from it.


Julia

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Thanks Mia for posting this chart.

If you see Joaquin perform onscreen, he seems to have Scorpio written on his forehead.
So his Scorpio stellium is no surprise at all, I agree.

The Virgo ASC, I agree is a surprise.
The interesting thing about a Virgo ASC is that they can look much younger than their real age.

This is such a strong trait, it can be used for chart rectification.
And I don't mean just a youthful appearance, but someone who may look 8-10 yrs younger than real age. Does this fit for Joaquin??

Julia

Click to expand...

Hi Julia! I was so excited when I saw that you replied
I´ve just looked him up, and at 41, he does not look younger than that :

(picture from 2016)

Funny to me is how even his sweet smile ends up looking totally scorpionic... he really was perfect for that evil emperor role...
Maybe his Pluto is very strong in his 1h?

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

River has an almost angelic look, naive and innocent. I don't think Joaquin has that naive and pure look. He is menacing in appearance and demeanor. This gives him an edge when he is portraying complex dark characters like Johnny Cash and Commodus (The Gladiator).

Click to expand...

Interesting, because my first impression of River was naive also, but both look like they are at home in the underbelly of things. Joaquin is that menacing intensity sprinkled with something sweet, and River is something I can´t define hidden behind that same sort of deep vibe.
Maybe we are weighting Neptune in the 1h against Pluto in the 1h here, which makes me rethink how important a planet there really can be.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Yes Pluto in the 1h is going to give a strong secretive and intense energy, which certainly could impact appearance. The Pluto located there could represent a childhood family death. (River)

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Do you deduce it by tying the 1st house to early life? I have a planet here also and would love if you could elaborate on how you reached that conclusion, or maybe give me a pointer as to research?

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

My understanding is a stellium is a grouping of planets in the same sign or house.
So it is a 2h house Libra/Scorpio stellium, and certainly is a pile-up! He has 5 planets in the
the 2 house! It doesn't matter what you call it, we are looking at significant combined energy.

And yes, in Karmic Astrology, the 2h is the karmic gift house. These energies can all be used as personal resources for this life.

Mercury= A soul with an innate intelligence and advanced mind. This can be used to understand the world and other people.

Uranus= Excellent creative thought, perhaps genius, has an innate understanding of vibrational forces and an affinity for change and transformation.

Mars= Highly developed will, courage, assertiveness.

Venus= Highly developed creativity, artistry, relationship skills.

Sun= Highly developed inner Self.

All of this, along with outer planets on the angles is showing an advanced soul.

Basically, Joaquin has a high probability of success in a number of career fields.

Click to expand...

That sounds wonderful, especially since a number of my relatives have some planets there as well! Especially the Venus and Mercury seem useful in his field, but it´s the Sun here that makes me glad, since I feel like that would give him the resources to deal with his life events.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

I think a nice balance is the combination of Scorpio and Libra energy in his stellium. Certainly softens his Scorpio energy and makes it more attractive to others. Scoprio does have a dark side, and yes he would have to watch out for that.

Click to expand...

It´s funny how those signs are actually neighbors, and I would love a newspaper type comic stripe on their relationship, because that would be hilarious. Sounds like that makes his Scorpio compatible with us normal mortals...
Are you familiar with his biography or times when he turned to that bad side of Scorpio? He obviously channels it into his work, but I feel like we don´t get scandals on him, nor does he necessarily play the celebrity game that much. Maybe it´s that Libra energy as you said, but he doesn´t seem like the power hungry, ruthlessly ambitious type.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

3h is the house of communication, self-expression, siblings.
Neptune located there in Scorpio is going to give artistic, creative self expression with an ability to verbalize that which he imagines. It is one thing to have a great creativity and imagination, another to be able to communicate it successfully. This is further enhanced by Neptune aspected to Jupiter in Pisces and the Aries Moon. Given an added creativity and emotionality.

Yes teacher in the arts would fit.

Neptune in the 3h can also indicate a child who does not feel like he fits in with his family.
This is a soul who feels quite different from his family, almost alien. While this soul may have felt separate and unique from the rest of the family, he was probably not treated as such.

Click to expand...

That´s very lonely I feel, since it´s one thing to feel different from a conventional family and have a bigger picture to fall back on, but his family lived separately from society and isolated him from that bigger whole as well. I wonder how he feels now, and if he has found an anchor in the artistic community maybe, or perhaps gets that from a partner instead?
And awesome how that house plays into his talents, this is such a gifted guy

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

I think you said it Mia. Scorpio on the 3h cusp with Neptune in the 3h of siblings.
Certainly describes his sibling's tragic complicated death via drugs.

Siblings are represented in the natal chart by Mercury. Mercury in the 2h is showing is that Joaquin's siblings were karmic gifts to him. And they would enhance his success in this life and in fact be a tangible asset. (I think this is the case, that River led the way in Hollywood for Joaquin? ) And started his career acting on TV with his siblings.

Mercury conjunct Mars and Uranus is showing an eccentric, unpredictable sibling prone to accidents.

Click to expand...

That´s so accurate, and I´m not sure who of the two brothers started out, but River was older, so my bet is on him.
The death aspect is quite scary, and it underlines how people are connected with each other even up to their chart Almost scary.
I wonder though how his Neptune-Scorpio brother and him got along during his lifetime, and since the relationship must have had those influences, I´m curious if they bonded over them or maybe competed?

In Rivers chart Mercury (11h Virgo) conjuncts Pluto, and I wonder what that means about his side of their relationship? Also, does it signify danger for his siblings, since you mentioned how Joaquin´s Pluto is linked to a family death?
By the way, River has a Sun Virgo(almost Leo) and Scorpio Asc add that to their sibling aspect connection and it´s almost spooky how accurate it turns out to be.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

There is no empty house, Mia!
Look at the sign on the cusp for information, house ruler, etc
You can also see Neptune and the North Node hugging the IC, so there is quite a bit of information there.

Yes a Sag 4h, with its ruler Jup in Pisces is showing us a home that is imaginative, creative, escapist, perhaps drug involved. This is a family who is restless, adventuresome, loves freedom and careless. The NN located here is showing that the family in some way is tied to his soul growth in this life, and that he will be searching for meaning during this life.

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I´ll remember that
That fits his bio and I hope for him that he´ll be able to give his past a positive feature in his life, which also makes me curious if his Moon (Aries 7h, trine Neptune) gave him a better relationship with his mother? Searching for meaning fits so well into his chart by the way Makes me want for him to write an autobio one day...what a read that would be.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

See above for his list of talents! He could do many things well.
But the creative talent is clearly there.

Saturn in the 11h is showing karmic issues with authority figures and issues around control vs freedom. This is a soul who in past lives was too attached to rigid dogma. I guess it makes sense in this life he was born into a family who was much more free wheeling and societal rebels.

Julia

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Interesting spin on Saturn, did you deduce it from his Cancer cusp or his 11h? Also doesn´t Saturn represent the father?

PS : I´m not that familiar with his work, but just noticed how his Lilith conj my Sun, that maybe explains why he seems soooo magnetic to me...

MiaMiaMia said:

Hi Julia! I was so excited when I saw that you replied
I´ve just looked him up, and at 41, he does not look younger than that :

(picture from 2016)

Funny to me is how even his sweet smile ends up looking totally scorpionic... he really was perfect for that evil emperor role...
Maybe his Pluto is very strong in his 1h?

Click to expand...

Hi Mia,

Yes, the First House is about physical presence, appearance or manner of expression. Planets located there and close to the ASC will impact appearance and expression.
Pluto located in the 1h can give a powerful, intense magnetic persona.
And yes, he was totally perfect as Commodus, the evil emperor.

Interesting that he does not have that youthful look of a Virgo rising, the birth time could be wrong, or perhaps all the scorpionic energy in the chart just took over.

Julia

MiaMiaMia said:

Interesting, because my first impression of River was naive also, but both look like they are at home in the underbelly of things. Joaquin is that menacing intensity sprinkled with something sweet, and River is something I can´t define hidden behind that same sort of deep vibe.
Maybe we are weighting Neptune in the 1h against Pluto in the 1h here, which makes me rethink how important a planet there really can be.

Click to expand...

I am not as familiar with River's work, so I am going to defer to your assessment of how he appears and comes across. From the few pictures I have seen he does have an innocent and naive look. But with a Scorpio ASC, I assume there is a dark underbelly as you state.

I think you are bringing up a really good point about planets in the First House and how important they are in terms of appearance, demeanor and expression. I think River's 1h Neptune gives him the chameleon factor, and he could be whatever he needed to be at any given moment. Hence he can look angelic and dark depending upon when you are looking at him!

MiaMiaMia said:

Did you deduce it by tying the 1st house to early life? I have a planet here also and would love if you could elaborate on how you reached that conclusion, or maybe give me a pointer as to research?

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Yes for childhood issues you can look at the first house. The closer to the Asc, the closer to birth and infancy and as you go out to later degrees of the 1h, the later in childhood. Often you can see a birth defect or problem with delivery for example with a Saturn near the Asc. And the Asc can give you information about the mother's view of the child and delivery, etc. I think if you google "astrology, First House, childhood", you will get the information you are looking for??

MiaMiaMia said:

That sounds wonderful, especially since a number of my relatives have some planets there as well! Especially the Venus and Mercury seem useful in his field, but it´s the Sun here that makes me glad, since I feel like that would give him the resources to deal with his life events.

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Yes I agree, given the difficulties in his life, a strong sense of self was a critical piece in his coping ability.

MiaMiaMia said:

It´s funny how those signs are actually neighbors, and I would love a newspaper type comic stripe on their relationship, because that would be hilarious. Sounds like that makes his Scorpio compatible with us normal mortals...
Are you familiar with his biography or times when he turned to that bad side of Scorpio? He obviously channels it into his work, but I feel like we don´t get scandals on him, nor does he necessarily play the celebrity game that much. Maybe it´s that Libra energy as you said, but he doesn´t seem like the power hungry, ruthlessly ambitious type.

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In terms of Joaquin life, he is totally submerged, typical of Scorpio energy, and it is hard to tell what his life is really like.

Funny, I had the exact same thought as I was looking at Joaquin's 2h signs. Kind of interesting that Libra and Scorpio are neighbors. Yes it does have a bit of jarring feel to it when you look at Libra and Scorpio side by side. And yes funny to imagine a comedian tackling the Libra/Scorpio connection!

But it makes sense from the esoteric point of view of the zodiac. The Zodiac represents the soul's evolutionary journey. The first half of the zodiac represents the soul's descent into body, with Aries being about learning how to be an individual, Taurus learning how to live in a body, Gemini learning about the mind and how to communicate, etc. etc.

The second half of the Zodiac represents the soul's journey back to God, moving away from the human self towards a spiritual self. Virgo is the last part of the human, personal signs and is the gateway to the inner or higher self. Libra is the beginning of the spiritual cycle and the soul is finally ready to learn about relationships with others. The soul learned about the self in the first 6 signs, and now hopefully will avoid losing the self as it interacts with others.

Then the soul is ready to go to the deep and dark places as represented by Scorpio. The soul has a good sense of self and others and can take the plunge into the hidden side of life.This is the sign of the esoteric, higher states of consciousness and the hidden treasure of the deepest corners of the soul. Then it goes off to Sagittarius, looking for the deeper meaning of life, etc.

MiaMiaMia said:

That´s very lonely I feel, since it´s one thing to feel different from a conventional family and have a bigger picture to fall back on, but his family lived separately from society and isolated him from that bigger whole as well. I wonder how he feels now, and if he has found an anchor in the artistic community maybe, or perhaps gets that from a partner instead?
And awesome how that house plays into his talents, this is such a gifted guy

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This isolation is probably what helped the children develop their acting talent.
And it appears that Joaquin has a strong sense of self, and diverse talents, so I would think his coping ability is good.

MiaMiaMia said:

That´s so accurate, and I´m not sure who of the two brothers started out, but River was older, so my bet is on him.
The death aspect is quite scary, and it underlines how people are connected with each other even up to their chart Almost scary.
I wonder though how his Neptune-Scorpio brother and him got along during his lifetime, and since the relationship must have had those influences, I´m curious if they bonded over them or maybe competed?

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I think River started out the stronger star, and the younger brother Joaquin followed him.
Yes it is amazing what the charts can tell us. I would imagine that the brothers did both: bonded and clashed given the scorpio energy and competitive nature of Hollywood. But given their childhood, there was bonding as well for survival sake.

MiaMiaMia said:

In Rivers chart Mercury (11h Virgo) conjuncts Pluto, and I wonder what that means about his side of their relationship? Also, does it signify danger for his siblings, since you mentioned how Joaquin´s Pluto is linked to a family death?
By the way, River has a Sun Virgo(almost Leo) and Scorpio Asc add that to their sibling aspect connection and it´s almost spooky how accurate it turns out to be.

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River's Merc/Pluto I took that to mean his siblings were present at his death. And I think indicates that the children were not always in a safe environment. This is a family which lived in dark places.

But yes if you look at River's Merc, representing Joaquin, you can see the aspect to Neptune, indicating that Joaquin also had the chameleon quality like River had, and tendency towards drug problems. Also see the aspect to the Moon (their mother) in the 7 house. Both had issues around their mother. If you notice, both brothers have a 7h moon, indicating past lives with mother as a partner or equal.

I know, if you look at the two charts from a synastry perspective, you can see that Joaquin's Sun is right on River's Asc. And then River's Sun is wide on Joaquin's Asc. And River's nodal axis is on Joaquin's Asc/Des. Very interesting.

MiaMiaMia said:

I´ll remember that
That fits his bio and I hope for him that he´ll be able to give his past a positive feature in his life, which also makes me curious if his Moon (Aries 7h, trine Neptune) gave him a better relationship with his mother? Searching for meaning fits so well into his chart by the way Makes me want for him to write an autobio one day...what a read that would be.

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I think Joaquin has made it clear that he will not talk about his brother, and given his Scorpio nature, quite secretive, I would be surprised to see him write an autobiography. Also with Saturn in Cancer, this is a person who is going to set up rigid protective boundaries around those he loves, so I doubt he would start talking publicly about his family, too big a can of worms.

Joaquin's mother is represented by his Moon, yes. And I take the trine to the IC/Nep/NN as meaning that she was a part of his soul purpose, the early home life of drugs, escapism, etc helped form his inner psychology and later soul mission. His relationship with her is quite complex and not easily defined as you can see by his Sun inconjunct his Moon.

MiaMiaMia said:

Interesting spin on Saturn, did you deduce it from his Cancer cusp or his 11h? Also doesn´t Saturn represent the father?

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From Saturn in the 11th. The father is represented by the Sun in my work.

MiaMiaMia said:

PS : I´m not that familiar with his work, but just noticed how his Lilith conj my Sun, that maybe explains why he seems soooo magnetic to me…

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I don’t know much about the asteroids, but that is interesting!


Julia

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

I am not as familiar with River's work, so I am going to defer to your assessment of how he appears and comes across. From the few pictures I have seen he does have an innocent and naive look. But with a Scorpio ASC, I assume there is a dark underbelly as you state.

I think you are bringing up a really good point about planets in the First House and how important they are in terms of appearance, demeanor and expression. I think River's 1h Neptune gives him the chameleon factor, and he could be whatever he needed to be at any given moment. Hence he can look angelic and dark depending upon when you are looking at him!

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What I find accurate for my chart (so I´m gonna assume for a moment that it could apply here), is that the cusp rulers of my houses have as much influence as the planets that actually figure inside. For example I have Leo (so Sun) in the 1st, and though I should identify with my real Sun placement (6th/7th), I see how Sun in the 1st applies just as much...
So Joaquin, according to this little thought could have Mercury in the 1st as well?
River, on the other hand, could be read as having Mars in the 1st.

On screen, River does "lure the spectator in" and is way more subtle about it that his brother, but he has an edge... a real chameleon, and if you watch My Own Private Idaho, you´ll get your heart broken by his vulnerability, he makes you believe in his feelings... and the in Dark Blood he frightens you with how controlling and rough he is to the other characters. I feel like he must have been a little confused about his identity himself, but who isn´t at this age.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Yes for childhood issues you can look at the first house. The closer to the Asc, the closer to birth and infancy and as you go out to later degrees of the 1h, the later in childhood. Often you can see a birth defect or problem with delivery for example with a Saturn near the Asc. And the Asc can give you information about the mother's view of the child and delivery, etc. I think if you google "astrology, First House, childhood", you will get the information you are looking for??

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Fascinating, especially since they have their 1st house planets around the same spot. I wonder if Neptune signified the spiraling out of control for River. Makes me worried about my Mars in the 1st
Joaquin was born with a minor "defect" on his lip, how does that relate to his Pluto?

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Yes I agree, given the difficulties in his life, a strong sense of self was a critical piece in his coping ability.

In terms of Joaquin life, he is totally submerged, typical of Scorpio energy, and it is hard to tell what his life is really like.

Funny, I had the exact same thought as I was looking at Joaquin's 2h signs. Kind of interesting that Libra and Scorpio are neighbors. Yes it does have a bit of jarring feel to it when you look at Libra and Scorpio side by side. And yes funny to imagine a comedian tackling the Libra/Scorpio connection!

But it makes sense from the esoteric point of view of the zodiac. The Zodiac represents the soul's evolutionary journey. The first half of the zodiac represents the soul's descent into body, with Aries being about learning how to be an individual, Taurus learning how to live in a body, Gemini learning about the mind and how to communicate, etc. etc.

The second half of the Zodiac represents the soul's journey back to God, moving away from the human self towards a spiritual self. Virgo is the last part of the human, personal signs and is the gateway to the inner or higher self. Libra is the beginning of the spiritual cycle and the soul is finally ready to learn about relationships with others. The soul learned about the self in the first 6 signs, and now hopefully will avoid losing the self as it interacts with others.

Then the soul is ready to go to the deep and dark places as represented by Scorpio. The soul has a good sense of self and others and can take the plunge into the hidden side of life.This is the sign of the esoteric, higher states of consciousness and the hidden treasure of the deepest corners of the soul. Then it goes off to Sagittarius, looking for the deeper meaning of life, etc.

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I love that explanation, as it fits well into the cyclic imagery of the natal chart in general, and I feel like it´s a little bit like an instruction manual as to how to use the signs and planets in the different houses. I wonder what his Leo 12h cusp means, since it relates to his sun, but also to performing, but has a negative connotation at the same time...
Also his distance from the social scene makes me wonder if Saturn in his 11h makes him distrustful of the socialite lifestyle and maybe he takes people too seriously to just mindlessly participate.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

This isolation is probably what helped the children develop their acting talent.
And it appears that Joaquin has a strong sense of self, and diverse talents, so I would think his coping ability is good

I think River started out the stronger star, and the younger brother Joaquin followed him.
Yes it is amazing what the charts can tell us. I would imagine that the brothers did both: bonded and clashed given the scorpio energy and competitive nature of Hollywood. But given their childhood, there was bonding as well for survival sake.

River's Merc/Pluto I took that to mean his siblings were present at his death. And I think indicates that the children were not always in a safe environment. This is a family which lived in dark places.

But yes if you look at River's Merc, representing Joaquin, you can see the aspect to Neptune, indicating that Joaquin also had the chameleon quality like River had, and tendency towards drug problems. Also see the aspect to the Moon (their mother) in the 7 house. Both had issues around their mother. If you notice, both brothers have a 7h moon, indicating past lives with mother as a partner or equal.

I know, if you look at the two charts from a synastry perspective, you can see that Joaquin's Sun is right on River's Asc. And then River's Sun is wide on Joaquin's Asc. And River's nodal axis is on Joaquin's Asc/Des. Very interesting.

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Interesting, he boundaries with their mother seem really weak with all those aspects combined, but what about their father? I will ask about River on his thread, but Joaquin has sun in the 2nd, so his fathers influence seemed to be a gif to him. But Sun and Moon are in Mars signs in his chart, so I imagine lots and lots of conflict, maybe even violence. At the same time, it aspects Jupiter, not to speak of all his conjunctions, so I feel like he maybe was more of a papa´s boy?

Yes, they seem so very connected, but it seems the case for most siblings?
Both of their Chirons are in Aries and both oppose Merucury and the conjunct planets. Maybe they teach how to become pioneers and ride the waves of success and failure boldly?

Joaquins Vesta (devotion, but also some loss of pleasure) sits in Sag in the 3rd, which makes me think, again, that he´d be a great teacher, but he doesn´t seem to get much joy out of it, also not much joy out of the sibling area, so go figure.

His Ceres ( how we cherish and how we nurture, need to be nurtured) sits in the 6h in Pisces. That´s one of the gentlest "mother" types, universal kindness

Also, Joaquins Mercury conjuncts his Sun, Venus, Uranus, Mars, so certainly siblings have a huge place in his life. Also, it fits well with how River presented himself.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

I think Joaquin has made it clear that he will not talk about his brother, and given his Scorpio nature, quite secretive, I would be surprised to see him write an autobiography. Also with Saturn in Cancer, this is a person who is going to set up rigid protective boundaries around those he loves, so I doubt he would start talking publicly about his family, too big a can of worms.

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I see, makes a lot of sense, and maybe that´s why he doesn´t publicly denounce his upbringing? Also I imagine that whatever he´d say it could escalate into the negative, considering that not many agree with his parents lifestyle.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Joaquin's mother is represented by his Moon, yes. And I take the trine to the IC/Nep/NN as meaning that she was a part of his soul purpose, the early home life of drugs, escapism, etc helped form his inner psychology and later soul mission. His relationship with her is quite complex and not easily defined as you can see by his Sun inconjunct his Moon.

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That´s sad to read, since I wish that kind of childhood upon no one, and would you say that the Moon /Pluto opposition signifies the danger you spoke of earlier? Would she have been a protector in that case?

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

From Saturn in the 11th. The father is represented by the Sun in my work.


I don’t know much about the asteroids, but that is interesting!


Julia

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Whom does Saturn represent then? I imagined him as an opposition to the Moon, so maybe governments and larger systems?

Asteroids are super fun and there are some for many more areas of life, but they are both such artistic influences that I felt like the Muses fit them the best

Hi Mia,

I just saw that you had responded to my post, somehow I missed it. Sorry for the late reply!

MiaMiaMia said:

What I find accurate for my chart (so I´m gonna assume for a moment that it could apply here), is that the cusp rulers of my houses have as much influence as the planets that actually figure inside. For example I have Leo (so Sun) in the 1st, and though I should identify with my real Sun placement (6th/7th), I see how Sun in the 1st applies just as much…

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I agree that cusp rulers are quite significant, and probably underutilized. I notice you use them a lot, which is a good reminder for me to use this technique more. A 1h Leo is going to be powerful and empowering, as well as heart centered.

MiaMiaMia said:

Joaquin, according to this little thought could have Mercury in the 1st as well?

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Interesting, yes. This would indicate that his big brother, River, was important to him from birth, from an early age. And since Mercury is the ruler of Joaquin’s chart, could this indicate that his brother colored many aspects of his life?

MiaMiaMia said:

River, on the other hand, could be read as having Mars in the 1st.

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Yes and Pluto. Certainly both fit

MiaMiaMia said:

On screen, River does "lure the spectator in" and is way more subtle about it that his brother, but he has an edge... a real chameleon, and if you watch My Own Private Idaho, you´ll get your heart broken by his vulnerability, he makes you believe in his feelings... and the in Dark Blood he frightens you with how controlling and rough he is to the other characters. I feel like he must have been a little confused about his identity himself, but who isn´t at this age.

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Given his unstable childhood, perhaps he learned a lot about changing his persona to meet the demands of any current situation. Neptune in the 1h. I confess that I have not seen any of his TV shows or movies, just commenting on what his chart is showing.

MiaMiaMia said:

Fascinating, especially since they have their 1st house planets around the same spot. I wonder if Neptune signified the spiraling out of control for River. Makes me worried about my Mars in the 1st Joaquin was born with a minor "defect" on his lip, how does that relate to his Pluto?

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A 1h Neptune yes, has a veil of illusion, a desire to return to the spiritual realm, difficulty differentiating between self and others. Which could lead to problems.

Chiron/Mercury can manifest as a cleft palate. Moon square Pluto indicates perhaps due to health condition of mother?

Mars in the 1h can have issues with assertiveness, will with the self or in the home.
Also gives a determination and focus.

MiaMiaMia said:

I love that explanation, as it fits well into the cyclic imagery of the natal chart in general, and I feel like it´s a little bit like an instruction manual as to how to use the signs and planets in the different houses.

Click to expand...

Yes precisely. The order of the zodiac is not chance, it represents the evolution of the soul during earthy incarnations. It is a soul map, the natal chart, signs, planets, houses are an instruction manual for the soul. The karmic astrologer joke is that God wanted to give each soul a “how to” manual at birth, but babies aren’t born with pockets, so S/He put it in the sky instead.

MiaMiaMia said:

I wonder what his Leo 12h cusp means, since it relates to his sun, but also to performing, but has a negative connotation at the same time...
Also his distance from the social scene makes me wonder if Saturn in his 11h makes him distrustful of the socialite lifestyle and maybe he takes people too seriously to just mindlessly participate.

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12h is the karmic debt house and showing areas where a soul needs to make some compensation. A soul can also volunteer to pay off the karmic debt of others. The 12h Leo is showing a past life full of pride, prominence, ego. It is also showing us that he most likely was an actor in a past life, has a love of performance. It is important for him in this life to avoid lording over others, snobbery or pride.

The 11h Saturn is interesting, and yes would point to a restriction in the area of friends and groups. The 11h Saturn shows that this is a person who feels outside society. Someone who feels like a loner, outcast. The lesson is to find a way to connect with humanity. Interesting I think he does with his acting.

MiaMiaMia said:

The boundaries with their mother seem really weak with all those aspects combined, but what about their father? I will ask about River on his thread, but Joaquin has sun in the 2nd, so his fathers influence seemed to be a gif to him.

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Yes on the mother and weak boundaries.
Yes Joaquin is showing that his father was important to him. 10h is showing Gem and Cancer, so Dad was a rational and nurturing presence. Or could play out as the negative of the signs, a bit of a needy con. But yes the 2h would show that somehow his father was a gift, and part of him developing his sense of self.

MiaMiaMia said:

But Sun and Moon are in Mars signs in his chart, so I imagine lots and lots of conflict, maybe even violence. At the same time, it aspects Jupiter, not to speak of all his conjunctions, so I feel like he maybe was more of a papa´s boy?

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Yes I agree.

MiaMiaMia said:

Yes, they seem so very connected, but it seems the case for most siblings?

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Some siblings are not close.

MiaMiaMia said:

Both of their Chirons are in Aries and both oppose Merucury and the conjunct planets. Maybe they teach how to become pioneers and ride the waves of success and failure boldly?

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Yes good points.

Aries Chiron is showing deep wounds to the sense of self. Also there can be an early environment which may be traumatic or healing. The lesson is is to overcome life obstacles, dealing with aggressiveness and will. Taking initiative and developing self confidence is a way to heal the inner wound to self.

Chiron/Mercury is showing that communication and intellect were used in a way that was damaging to self or others. Interesting in this life their intellect and communication were used in a professional way, to entertain others. To make others happy.

MiaMiaMia said:

Joaquins Vesta (devotion, but also some loss of pleasure) sits in Sag in the 3rd, which makes me think, again, that he´d be a great teacher, but he doesn´t seem to get much joy out of it, also not much joy out of the sibling area, so go figure.

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His brother’s death cast a pall over his life to some extent?

MiaMiaMia said:

His Ceres ( how we cherish and how we nurture, need to be nurtured) sits in the 6h in Pisces. That´s one of the gentlest "mother" types, universal kindness

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So he plays these dark characters but at home is a gentle, kind soul.

MiaMiaMia said:

Also, Joaquins Mercury conjuncts his Sun, Venus, Uranus, Mars, so certainly siblings have a huge place in his life. Also, it fits well with how River presented himself.

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Yes I agree.

MiaMiaMia said:

I see, makes a lot of sense, and maybe that´s why he doesn´t publicly denounce his upbringing? Also I imagine that whatever he´d say it could escalate into the negative, considering that not many agree with his parents lifestyle.

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Yes and with all that Scorpionic energy, he is going to stay hidden and private.

MiaMiaMia said:

That´s sad to read, since I wish that kind of childhood upon no one, and would you say that the Moon /Pluto opposition signifies the danger you spoke of earlier? Would she have been a protector in that case?

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Moon/Pluto indicates possible abandonment or rejection by a mother figure. And possible regeneration and healing.

MiaMiaMia said:

Whom does Saturn represent then? I imagined him as an opposition to the Moon, so maybe governments and larger systems?

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Saturn represents doubts, fears, burdens, responsibilities. This is where it is necessary to overcome limitations. Karmic lessons and wisdom are shown by Saturn in the chart. Saturn in Cancer is showing karma with mother, or mother figure, but both parents most likely (Saturn also representing a male.) There will be issues around inner security, and the lesson is that this soul must nurture itself.

MiaMiaMia said:

Asteroids are super fun and there are some for many more areas of life, but they are both such artistic influences that I felt like the Muses fit them the best

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Thank you for sharing information about the asteroids, very interesting.
As are all of your comments.
I appreciate your ideas and conclusions!


Julia

It doesn't really surprise me that he's a virgo ascendant. I am a virgo ascendant and yes, we can appear very pure/innocent but also can appear quiet and mysterious when we stop caring about what others think. I find men especially don't usually come across as pure or innocent. Wasn't Kurt Cobain a virgo asc? And I'm pretty sure Billy Corgan from the smashing pumpkins has a virgo asc too.

AquaMoonChild said:

It doesn't really surprise me that he's a virgo ascendant. I am a virgo ascendant and yes, we can appear very pure/innocent but also can appear quiet and mysterious when we stop caring about what others think. I find men especially don't usually come across as pure or innocent. Wasn't Kurt Cobain a virgo asc? And I'm pretty sure Billy Corgan from the smashing pumpkins has a virgo asc too.

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They both are, it´s true, but maybe you can see it better because you have personal experience. To me, all those examples represent pretty self-oriented people (in the best, most independent way) who have a disruptive energy about them. That´s not the image I associate withVirgo, but I don´t understand that sign very wll, it´s Mercury ruled after all...

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

I agree that cusp rulers are quite significant, and probably underutilized. I notice you use them a lot, which is a good reminder for me to use this technique more. A 1h Leo is going to be powerful and empowering, as well as heart centered.

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Thanks so much for your response, I hope you´re still there
I love that so much, how flexible astrology can be, while remaining consistent in the essential message. I use them actually because I feel more confident than using the signs, I still haven´t learned enough about them. Also they get referred to a lot in Vedic astrology, so I feel like it´s a good technique.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Interesting, yes. This would indicate that his big brother, River, was important to him from birth, from an early age. And since Mercury is the ruler of Joaquin’s chart, could this indicate that his brother colored many aspects of his life?

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Maybe his brother was the introducer in his life, like to films and stardom, to leaving his family, etc. There is so much we will never know for sure, but since he was with him at the Viper Room, maybe he introduced him to the "cool" party lifestyle as well... Since 1h is also self he might have purposefully imitated his older brother, which is quite common for little siblings. All this makes me just the more sorry for their tragic parting.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Given his unstable childhood, perhaps he learned a lot about changing his persona to meet the demands of any current situation. Neptune in the 1h. I confess that I have not seen any of his TV shows or movies, just commenting on what his chart is showing.

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Exactly, and I see that "universal" compassion of Neptune now that I think about it, like playing marginal characters and still giving them dignity. One of his roles had a nervous disorder which could come off as grotesque on screen, but he was very good at avoiding mockery and made it look like a tragic disease to have. He also filmed himself interviewing young male hustlers for his research, and you see him asking questions and listening to them like they are his equals, not some disgusting people below him... very mature for a young guy.

I hope this doesn´t distract too much from the actual star of this thread, but I wanted to share some clips I find soooo telling about River and his talent (i Have referred to those before) :

He´s playing a hermit in the desert who saved a couple and repairs their car, later holds them hostage because he fell for the wife. Very scary, crazy and domineering character, it´s hard to remember how sweet he was in other roles : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnqJicQ5-Nk

Here he´s a homeless hustler with his hustler friend and after he found his mother´s old house and finally though he would meet her again, she´s gone already, he breaks down in her old room. This is so very touching and it seems so real that I wonder whether he took the feelings from his own experience with instability in life? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpYlmkzlfOk

From the same movie a dialogue he wrote himself, where he confesses his feelings for his hustler friend. Heartbreaking and so cutely played that it´s hard to imagine he would ever play a villain... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JID5_FUL4mE

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

A 1h Neptune yes, has a veil of illusion, a desire to return to the spiritual realm, difficulty differentiating between self and others. Which could lead to problems.

Chiron/Mercury can manifest as a cleft palate. Moon square Pluto indicates perhaps due to health condition of mother?

Mars in the 1h can have issues with assertiveness, will with the self or in the home.
Also gives a determination and focus.

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Maybe Neptune 1h contributes to his mythos, after all it takes something to make him so interesting today still?

Great analysis, I will trust you on that since I´m not really familiar with medical astrology.

Hm, well, you know who else has Mars in the 1h...it´s orange, it´s angry, and it cals itself Don I hope I never end up like him though, bad use of that ascendant!

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Yes precisely. The order of the zodiac is not chance, it represents the evolution of the soul during earthy incarnations. It is a soul map, the natal chart, signs, planets, houses are an instruction manual for the soul. The karmic astrologer joke is that God wanted to give each soul a “how to” manual at birth, but babies aren’t born with pockets, so S/He put it in the sky instead.

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That´s so cute, I love the image of it When you wrote about soul evolution I had to look up Joaquin´s vedic charts. His Navamsa (d-9) should represent the second part of his life as well as the part of his soul that develops through time. They say that the regular vedic chart is the promise or outer layer of the onion and d-9 is the result or core. I also took a look at his career chart d-10.
I´m currently looking into Jamini astrology (branch of vedic) and will mix it all up.

Basically in Jamini the planets with the most degrees (except Uranus, Neptune, Pluto who are not "there") is the oldest and considered the Atmakaraka or self of the person, it carries some wisdom, but here I focussed on the 2nd oldest or Atamyakaraka which is the career signifactor. His is Mercury, so his style at work will be fluctuating, intellectual, commnicative...

Now in his d-9 his Mercury is in a nakshatra (sub divion on signs, often overlapping and has more specific meaning) of Gemini, very intellectual as expected, smart solutions etc. In his d-10 chart it´s related to Cancer nakshatra and connected to caring activities, from catering to therapy. Interesting is that none of those are related directly to acting and performing, but I´ll risk it and speculate that maybe they illustrate more his approach that his profession?

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

12h is the karmic debt house and showing areas where a soul needs to make some compensation. A soul can also volunteer to pay off the karmic debt of others. The 12h Leo is showing a past life full of pride, prominence, ego. It is also showing us that he most likely was an actor in a past life, has a love of performance. It is important for him in this life to avoid lording over others, snobbery or pride.

The 11h Saturn is interesting, and yes would point to a restriction in the area of friends and groups. The 11h Saturn shows that this is a person who feels outside society. Someone who feels like a loner, outcast. The lesson is to find a way to connect with humanity. Interesting I think he does with his acting.

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That´s so interesting, why do you think so? I haven´t seen too many of his movies so I can´t really tell.
Also isn´t the 11h related to Aquarius?

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Yes on the mother and weak boundaries.
Yes Joaquin is showing that his father was important to him. 10h is showing Gem and Cancer, so Dad was a rational and nurturing presence. Or could play out as the negative of the signs, a bit of a needy con. But yes the 2h would show that somehow his father was a gift, and part of him developing his sense of self.

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Ha, that´s some polar opposites for the father, i hope that he stayed on the positive side as much as possible Maybe negative influences have shaped him positively somehow though, that can sometimes happen... Also this could counteract his Aries wound from Chiron and strenghten a healthy ego?

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Aries Chiron is showing deep wounds to the sense of self. Also there can be an early environment which may be traumatic or healing. The lesson is is to overcome life obstacles, dealing with aggressiveness and will. Taking initiative and developing self confidence is a way to heal the inner wound to self.

Chiron/Mercury is showing that communication and intellect were used in a way that was damaging to self or others. Interesting in this life their intellect and communication were used in a professional way, to entertain others. To make others happy.

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Thanks so much for the Chiron info, I will reflect on that, seems very true.

As to the Phoenix brothers, since they both have it in Aries I imagine to them this was a dog eat dog world, and I wonder if it could have influenced the roles they took or the theme of their work? Maybe this is a faulty theory, but I would just love for more of their charts to show through their movies.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

So he plays these dark characters but at home is a gentle, kind soul.

Yes and with all that Scorpionic energy, he is going to stay hidden and private.

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Sweet and mysterious, starts to sound good

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Moon/Pluto indicates possible abandonment or rejection by a mother figure. And possible regeneration and healing.

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Moon aspects freak me out. Misha Collins (actor in SPN) has this connection and his mother raised them practically homeless, very chaotic childhood and just all around dreadful to imagine.
Sebastian Stan (Cap America / Winter Soldier) has a Uranus Moon connection and his mom and him moved around a lot too.
Chris Evans (Cap America) has it conjunct Lilith, and his mom was the "cool chick" but there are rumours about her being intrusive into his life.
I´ve also read that Moon in the 12th can cause life lond emotional isolation and unawareness of feelings. I don´t know about that, since Harry Styles has it I think and he seems cheerful enough?

I feel like Moon being the signifactor of Cancer/4h really changes our deepest self and that just transpires into everything. I want to research more about it and I might come back with more if I find anything telling. I also wonder how Saturn returning over the moon would affect it? makes me shudder just imagining.

I have a Moon/Neptune/Uranus conjunction btw, what do you make of that?

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

Saturn represents doubts, fears, burdens, responsibilities. This is where it is necessary to overcome limitations. Karmic lessons and wisdom are shown by Saturn in the chart. Saturn in Cancer is showing karma with mother, or mother figure, but both parents most likely (Saturn also representing a male.) There will be issues around inner security, and the lesson is that this soul must nurture itself.

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This ties perfectly into his family picture, maybe that ties into the responsibility of the children for their parents. This seems to me a deeply personal aspect, almost subconscious.

The background of the Bottom family:


and older brother the late River (Bottom) Phoenix:
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Phoenix,_River




Joaquin Phoenix, previously known as Leaf, is one of the biggest actors in the world and has been for decades. He was discovered after he and his four siblings were spotted performing on the streets of Westwood, California. However, his private life has seen more dramas than some of his recent films.


https://www.noteabley.com/culture/joaquin-phoenix-fb/#:~:text=Joaquin%20Phoenix,%20previously%20known%20as%20Leaf,%20is%20one,more%20dramas%20than%20some%20of%20his%20recent%20films.