Jupiter or Neptune - which one rules the querent in Pisces

poyi · Oct 18, 2013

helena-IT said:
Since I got that job and like you've said it's a good one, the way I see (and feel) that weak Moon now is like my superiors will probably have high expectations, they will be very demanding and I don't think I will be able to fulfill my duties and that's where issues probably will arise.

Oh yes, it's hitting - Moon in the exact and perfect opposition to my natal Mercury
Mercury 26 Libra 0' 6" opposition Moon 26 Aries 24'36"

Most I definitely will post the follow up, for I'm sensing it's not going to be an easy one. I think those trines between Saturn and Jupiter and Jupiter and Asc signify an easy flow, that why I've got this job easily, but the further development won't flow that easily.

As per textbook, the contacts to the Moon to these planets before leaving the signs will tell the events. Your natal connection to the lunar eclipse, Mercury is the news and so should review the position of the Mercury and where it rules. Lunar eclipse is conclusion of event, an end of cycle, I think in general. I am still learning to read the Horary, but any contact as in aspect of the significator usually confirming a Yes answer. But the condition of the Moon and dispositor will tell the quality of the event, I think. Should also consider putting Fixed stars and Antisica into consideration.

This is a very good exercise for me to learn and with your update that I can learn from whatever mistakes from my speculations. And hopefully, you will get through whatever the challenges are. The timing of this job is reflecting the timing of the Solar eclipse to your natal Sun as well as the 1st house. You must also be aware that is only approximate 3 orb effect on your Sun so the intensity is not necessarily the highest. Can also review the declination to confirm that is not too tight, but still will have effect. Solar return will surely help you to get better understand along with the eclipses. Horary should not be the only chart to look at, if in doubt always look at your natal, progression and transits, eclipses, solar return.

Anyway, I am no expert, but sharing what I will do in your situation as if I was doing prediction for myself.

helena-IT · Oct 20, 2013

poyi said:
This is a very good exercise for me to learn and with your update that I can learn from whatever mistakes from my speculations. .

Like you, I'm still learning horary techniques and honestrly I find it the most difficult comparing to other branches of astrology, so the best way for me to learn it is on my own examples.

poyi said:
Solar return will surely help you to get better understand along with the eclipses. Horary should not be the only chart to look at, if in doubt always look at your natal, progression and transits, eclipses, solar return.

My solar return for 2014 (november 2013 to november 2014 to be precise) is the worst one I've had in ages :crying:

- my Acs becomes Desc and vice versa so the following period will be more than challenging. Progression and Solar arc are however more favorable.
One thing though, new moon in august was on the exact degree as my natal moon in the 10th (14 Leo 35) so I suppose some kind of new development in my career sector is on the way, for in november it will be 3 months after that august new moon.

But like I said, I will most definitely post the follow up on the matter because of that weak Moon in horary chart, which still concerns me a lot.

poyi · Oct 20, 2013

When ascendant becomes the descendant, one possibility is new relationship which is one positive manifestation of saturn return. If you are already in relationship that will mean marriage or break up or if not in relationship a new one will be very likely. The highlight of the solar return is definetly learning about partnership or more mundane as having lot of contacts with clients. Combining with Saturn return it will be likely to be related to commitment in partnership. If will be good idea to draw up a Venus return chart to have a look. Mars return will also be helpful as Mars represents the man we attracted to but Venus return is the first one to look at.

Checking the midpoint in the solar return chart is the laziest but most reliable assessment of the true meaning of configuration and aspects. Use only the midpoints within one orb and the first 2 tightest orb midpoints as the highest focus and start from the first two to see the direction of the chart. The chart itself, no matter which chart, identify the first 2 tightest orb aspects to get direction of the chart. Not everything aspect is important in the solar or lunar return. The truly important aspect will always be found in the progressed chart. All charts speak the same message when it means the most. The charts will only care the most important things and will only show the most important matters. These are what my boyfriend taught me and I had used these methods for my own charts never fail.

waybread · Oct 20, 2013

Just a tag-line on this thread. I strongly support modern astrology in natal chart interpretation, but in horary you are dealing more with a moment in time, not with the character of a human being.

The trouble with the modern outer planets in horary is that they stay in one sign for so long, and make the same aspect to other outer planets for so long, that they can be significators in just about any type of question asked over a long period of time. This is especially the case because outer planets often go retrograde, so they tend to hover around the same few degrees for months at a time. The "classical" planets move more quickly, so are less subject to the simple dynamics of the trans-Saturnians.

Also, depending upon your methods, the trans-Saturnians don't fit into the traditional tables of dignities: terms, face, triplicities, or joys; and probably not into exaltations or falls. So you would lose a lot of interpretive value right there.

This isn't to say that they can't add secondary information in a supplementary fashion. Ideally the horary chart gives a picture of the situation at hand.

Note also that in a job question, a lot depends upon whether you view it as "just a job" which is a 6th house matter; or a career move that would further your vocation in life, which is a 10th house matter. These will probably give you completely different house lords. (In this chart, the sun vs. Jupiter.)

helena-IT · Oct 20, 2013

poyi said:
When ascendant becomes the descendant, one possibility is new relationship which is one positive manifestation of saturn return.

I don't have a Saturn return, my natal Saturn is in Cancer.

poyi said:
If you are already in relationship that will mean marriage or break up or if not in relationship a new one will be very likely. The highlight of the solar return is definitely learning about partnership or more mundane as having lot of contacts with clients.

Since I'm a career oriented and die-hard bachelorette, not so good news

But I think it will have to do with clients and business associates rather than a romantic relationship. Unless something radical happens

But as much as I know about Acs Desc swapping positions, that usually means that a person will be in other people's "mercy" so to speak, and since my SR Saturn is conjuncting both natal Venus and Sun, I think it's going to be more than a simple commitment to other(s).

poyi said:
It will be good idea to draw up a Venus return chart to have a look. Mars return will also be helpful as Mars represents the man we attracted to but Venus return is the first one to look at.

Venus return:
Venus in Sco in 5th, squaring Mars in Leo in 3rd,
conjuncting Saturn and NN in Sco in 5th,
sextiling Pluto in Cap in 7th
trining Chiron in Pisces in 10th
(it makes other aspects but they are all higher than 4 degrees)

poyi said:
Checking the midpoint in the solar return chart is the laziest but most reliable assessment of the true meaning of configuration and aspects. Use only the midpoints within one orb and the first 2 tightest orb midpoints as the highest focus and start from the first two to see the direction of the chart.

These are the tightest mid points in SR and planets found on those points - the rest are much higher than 2 degrees.

7th house is definitely the most dominant

Mars|PoF 20 CAN 29 > Jup 20 CAN 31 in 4th
Merc|Jup 12 VIRG 23 > Mars 12 VIRG 57 in 6th
Moon|Mars 4 SCO 10 > Merc 4 SCO 16 in 7th
Ven|Mars 7 SCO 04 > NN 7 SCO 12 in 7th
Sun|Sat 14 SCO 17 > Sun 14 SCO 20 and Sat 14 SCO 15 in 7th
Moon|MC 1 CAP 49 > Ven 1 CAP 11 in 9th
Sat|Netp 8 CAP 25 > MC 8 CAP 14

poyi said:
The truly important aspect will always be found in the progressed chart.

in Progressed - Sun, Venus and Mercury all in 2nd Sag, and all trine MC
and Saturn in Cancer in 8th trines Jupiter in Pisces in 4th and those are the major aspects.

helena-IT · Oct 20, 2013

waybread said:
Just a tag-line on this thread. I strongly support modern astrology in natal chart interpretation, but in horary you are dealing more with a moment in time, not with the character of a human being.

Yes thank you, I did use Jupiter as Asc significator

waybread said:
Note also that in a job question, a lot depends upon whether you view it as "just a job" which is a 6th house matter; or a career move that would further your vocation in life, which is a 10th house matter. These will probably give you completely different house lords. (In this chart, the sun vs. Jupiter.)

Now that is an interesting one - I've found some interpretations on that issue, which houses should be taken when casting career/job related horary chart. Well, in my case actually is a "job" and not a "career" oriented question, so yes in that case the chart would be interpreted in a different way. But anyhow I got that "job" so I'll have to wait for further developments (still very concerned about that weak Moon though).

poyi · Oct 20, 2013

helena-IT said:
I don't have a Saturn return, my natal Saturn is in Cancer.
Since I'm a career oriented and die-hard bachelorette, not so good news But I think it will have to do with clients and business associates rather than a romantic relationship. Unless something radical happens But as much as I know about Acs Desc swapping positions, that usually means that a person will be in other people's "mercy" so to speak, and since my SR Saturn is conjuncting both natal Venus and Sun, I think it's going to be more than a simple commitment to other(s).

I see. I don't know why I read as you having Saturn reading.

I have not heard of the in the other people's mercy potential. I will see it as the 7th house meeting the 1st yourself which includes all sort of 7th house relationship both committed relationship or client relationship.

Venus return:
Venus in Sco in 5th, squaring Mars in Leo in 3rd,
conjuncting Saturn and NN in Sco in 5th,
sextiling Pluto in Cap in 7th
trining Chiron in Pisces in 10th
(it makes other aspects but they are all higher than 4 degrees)

Here we see the Venus the most important planet in the return chart, placed in 5th, squaring traditional ruler Mars (that is unusual for a 5th house planet square 3rd house planet, usually should be sextile)

Also conjunct Saturn and North Node in the 5th, again another suggestion. Look at what Saturn rules link all the related planets and their ruling houses together.

Modern ruler is in the Venus return's 7th another suggestion, repetitive messages.

Venus return is suggesting issues with 5th and in Scorpio, where is your natal Scorpio, again link the houses in between charts fold up the same cusps together.

These are the tightest mid points in SR and planets found on those points - the rest are much higher than 2 degrees.

7th house is definitely the most dominant

Mars|PoF 20 CAN 29 > Jup 20 CAN 31 in 4th
Merc|Jup 12 VIRG 23 > Mars 12 VIRG 57 in 6th
Moon|Mars 4 SCO 10 > Merc 4 SCO 16 in 7th
Ven|Mars 7 SCO 04 > NN 7 SCO 12 in 7th
Sun|Sat 14 SCO 17 > Sun 14 SCO 20 and Sat 14 SCO 15 in 7th
Moon|MC 1 CAP 49 > Ven 1 CAP 11 in 9th
Sat|Netp 8 CAP 25 > MC 8 CAP 14

You will need reference book for Midpoints to look at the midpoints and how they look like as a group and as a pattern in aspects in the chart, their house as well as signs.

in Progressed - Sun, Venus and Mercury all in 2nd Sag, and all trine MC
and Saturn in Cancer in 8th trines Jupiter in Pisces in 4th and those are the major aspects.

Look at what these planets ruling in your natal houses, these planets as rulers visiting the 2nd house trine natal MC, so linking the planets, their original ruling houses to these progressing position. Also draw up an individual progressed chart, look at where they are in the progressed houses. Natal position and rulership is where the story is based on and started from, the blueprint, but the chapters continue to change in the progression, the direction of storyline, the details of how the story flows.

helena-IT · Oct 21, 2013

poyi said:
I see. I don't know why I read as you having Saturn reading.

Saturn is conjuncting my Natal Sun at the moment, that's all.

poyi said:
I have not heard of the in the other people's mercy potential. I will see it as the 7th house meeting the 1st yourself which includes all sort of 7th house relationship both committed relationship or client relationship.

here it is, taken from this forum http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/001306.html

"Should the Natal Descendant become the SR Ascendant, then a difficult year could be awaiting you. You might be at the mercy of others this year."

poyi said:
Here we see the Venus the most important planet in the return chart, placed in 5th, squaring traditional ruler Mars (that is unusual for a 5th house planet square 3rd house planet, usually should be sextile)

Now, this is a bit tricky, because Venus is placed at the very last minutes of the 5th (14°26) yet not really on the cusp of the 6th (14°29') and Mars is in 3rd Leo at 16°51'. It might suggest that 5th house matters brim over to 6th house matters.

poyi said:
Also conjunct Saturn and North Node in the 5th, again another suggestion. Look at what Saturn rules link all the related planets and their ruling houses together.

Natal Saturn in 9th and natal NN in 2nd and Venus also rules finances not just relationships.
Anyway, I think this topic has evolved into something that goes beyond simple horary

Perhaps I should start a new topic in Solar returns section.

Thanks poyi so much, you gave me enough thinking material

poyi · Oct 21, 2013

True we go far beyond that Horary question, however, Horary always speak of the natal in a lot more straight forward form for those can read Horary well :biggrin:

Jupiter or Neptune - which one rules the querent in Pisces

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