A new twist on Modern Psychological Astrology

AppLeo, this saying goes back to the Bible, if not earlier, but it's "Don't criticize the speck in your brother's eye when you fail to notice the beam in your own eye. (Mat. 7:3.)

Without making a sermon out of it, I actually don't have a problem with a gripe session on an Internet forum if griping about their spouse is all that people want to do. But the article linked in this OP was about how people who couldn't afford a psychologist were turning to astrologers as a cheaper alternative. In this case, the clients are probably struggling with a personal problem that they hope to solve, not just ventilate at $100 per hour

I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that people talking about marital problems would like to improve their lives, one way or another. I've been married 2x, for a total of 42 years. In my experience, placing all of the blame on one's partner without acknowledging one's own flaws is not a helpful way to improve a marriage.

While divorce is normally an option, if we don't honestly look at the problems we bring to a relationship, we're apt to repeat the same mistakes the next time around.

good point, gemNi.

There was an earlier funny-haha movie about separated twins in 1961, The Parent Trap, staring Haley Mills. After a lot of hi-jinks, the family reunites-- the daydream of every child of divorced parents. Of course, in 1961, the truth was a lot more serious. There was a huge stigma against girls who weren't virgins on their wedding night, let alone the ones who had a baby out of wedlock. Keeping the baby was not an option for most unwed mothers; unless the family concocted some kind of ruse about it.

So yes, the health services have a lot to answer for. Possibly we will only know in the future what are the abuses of the helping professions today.

On the other hand, this doesn't logically mean that astrologers are valid alternatives. As you indicate, astrologers do not need to pass any kind of board exam in order to practice. This is utterly unlike a clinical psychologist, professional counselor, MD psychiatrist, and so on.In my province, hairdressers need a license to practice. I've seen people who claim to be professional astrologers on this and another forum whose astrological knowledge is weak and even mistaken-- never mind any counseling credentials.

Caveat emptor.

Just have to say this:
Thank you, waybread, for so generously sharing your hard- and well-earned wisdom.

I'm only pointing out facts, valid or not valid to ones views would be an opinion that like everyone else on forum is entitled to.

Excellent points made on the validicy of certified vs non certified. What still stands as I pointed out is Astrology is a non-regulated free market. Im hesitantly opposing your well made points because it, itself would set limitations on allowing what some countries already have in place freedom of cultural rights.

I highly doubt regulating Astrology will make an impact in countries like India, China, Romania, etc, etc they already place Astrology as a given right, wouldn't this not just impact them but set them off ??? How far would one go to strip someone elses culture from them?

Im suspect when one doesn't understand the full ramifications of what laws they're trying to impose onto others.

It would be helpful if it was made clear weather were disputing regulating businesses that practice Astrology OR regulating Astrology as a enitity of its own.

People giving advice on a forum does not necessarily correlate to the business practice of anything, it may correlate to research, bad unwarranted advice. It's also a far reach to use Astrology forums as a example because forums have different terms of rules.

Ilene, thank you. Your kind post made my day.

GemNi, I know better than to advocate some kind of strict licensing procedure for professional astrologers. I have not done so. I just hope that clients of astrologers do take the "Buyer beware" caution to heart; especially if they see an astrologer as a substitute for a clinical psychologist.

waybread said:

Ilene, thank you. Your kind post made my day.

GemNi, I know better than to advocate some kind of strict licensing procedure for professional astrologers. I have not done so. I just hope that clients of astrologers do take the "Buyer beware" caution to heart; especially if they see an astrologer as a substitute for a clinical psychologist.

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Personally, I give what I consider free, helpful suggestions based on an astrological reading, but not actual long-term therapy.

Waybread.

What you said is completely valid and also correct in many ways. I tend to forget that providences are stricter than the states where anyone can market anything and anything goes. One can be a ghost hunter, UFO tracker, Minister selling holly water for a fee.

I just don't hear many people being taken advantage of by Astrologers other than online forums.

gemNi, I once looked up this stuff, probably to settle an old debate on some thread or other.

In the US and Canada, practicing psychologists are regulated by the state or province. I didn't look up all 60 jurisdictions, but I looked up a bunch. Basically to practice as a psychologist one needs a Master's or Ph. D. degree in psychology (or in some places, in an allied field such as social work.) There is a steep requirement for many hours of clinical practice under the supervision of a senior practicing psychologist. After all that, then the person has to pass a board exam in order to get a license to practice.

Of course, there are licensed clinical psychologists who are not very good in their profession, but these steep requirements, as for practicing medical doctors, are done to protect the clients from quacks and poorly educated practitioners.

Most psychologists with a practice serving clients are clinical psychologists.

Here are the requirements in Canada (where I live) https://cpa.ca/students/career/becomingapsychologist/

On requirements in the U. S.:

https://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2004/01/get-licensed.aspx

I doubt that Liz Greene, with her psychology doctorate from a defunct diploma mill in the US, would have met today's requirement for being a practicing psychologist in the UK when she started her practice in the 1970s. The UK requires a legitimate doctorate plus a year of clinical experience. Greene did subsequently get a diploma from a Jungian institute; and, later in life, a Ph. D. from an accredited British university-- in history.

I guess it depends upon what one means by "being taken advantage of" by an astrologer. If a client pays $100 for a poorly informed reading, well--in some jurisdictions like Britain, astrologers have to indicate that their readings are for entertainment purposes only. https://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/astrologicalmusings/2008/06/britain-cracks-down-on-astrolo.html

Psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists and astrologers should all be replaced with socialists.

Jung himself said (I condense, but remain true to Jung's thought) that the common man who had been through life's trials was as qualified a "therapist" as any diploma-carrying psychologist.

Jung lived a long time ago. (1875-1961.) The world and knowledge of human behaviour have changed a lot since then.

I don't see why people in the "helping professions" would be classified as socialists, which is a particular political persuasion. "A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole." (Google search definition)

I don't see why psychologists and other things similar should be replaced with socialists either.

They are both two entirely different things.

Well they both end in -ist, so naturally I thought....

As for what Jung said... He said it, I didn't. I was just reporting.

As for "curing" mental/emotional disorders by "intervention" of a "professional", lots of luck with that.

And just who trained Freud?

Waybread

I think your views are very reasonable, I mean in Canada one has to have a college degree to become a correction officer where as US it's a high school diploma and in some areas a filling out an application.

I understand your views on being certified but from a different view I thought how many Mondern Astrologers actually get to make, in real time observations?

Maybe the astrologer shouldn't had taken a priced pay but opted for some lengthly form of researching, needs to be done on a psychological one on one level (maybe even a group setting) as I don't believe statistical research nor online chart reading is sufficient enough to pass as a modern psychological astrologist for a student it would probably only account for a 20% grade whereas 1:1 is 80%.

Im also not confident to say wether it would be worth the cost to require one to be a licensed clinical psychologist ontop of covering the expense to study Astrology. It narrows the field to only licensed pyschologist and doctors qualified to make psychological and medical assessment in Astrology.

The good thing is there are vast video sources for medical operations that one can view for their own independent studies but there isn't many on psychology unless you take YouTube as source which can render as faulty observation if the video clip is a shorten version of a missing full clip.

I don't know the solution to this yet what I took away from reading article is both were satisfied. Neither felt they were being taken advantage of, it was a win - win to both.

greybeard said:

Well they both end in -ist, so naturally I thought....

As for what Jung said... He said it, I didn't. I was just reporting.

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Well you're reporting nonsense.

greybeard said:

As for "curing" mental/emotional disorders by "intervention" of a "professional", lots of luck with that.

And just who trained Freud?

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Freud was a medical doctor.

Although he is credited as the "father of psychoanalysis," most of his actual theories have since been debunked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoanalysis#Criticism

If astrologers could prescribe tranquilizers and thought-blocking, emotion-deadening drugs, we could be considered "therapists" ourselves!

GemNi, certainly there are really good astrologers with our without counseling credentials, and with and without astrology credentials. You are probably aware of the professional astrology associations like the AFA and NCGR that offer courses board exams. The movement to offer astrology certification programs was an effort to distinguish between astrologers who actually have an astrology education and have signed on to the association's code of ethics, vs. Just Anybody who can set up shop with only limited and even erroneous astrological knowledge.

I don't see astrologers supporting a move for requiring professional credentials anytime soon, the way most professions do (psychologists, doctors, lawyers, electricians, accountants, and so on.) With most of the professions requiring licensing, it was due to a push by members of their own profession, who were sick and tired of the ignorant and unethical practitioners giving the profession a bad name.

I thought about doing one of the astrological associations' courses and exams, just to see how I would fare, but most of them require you to cast horoscopes by hand-- not by a computer program. The math involved in actually calculating a horoscope scared me too badly to continue with this idea!

I have read a lot of charts for people, but never taken money for doing this. Which is why I call myself an amateur.

david starling said:

If astrologers could prescribe tranquilizers and thought-blocking, emotion-deadening drugs, we could be considered "therapists" ourselves!

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David, these would be psychiatrists, who are MDs. Generally the therapy or counseling part is done by clinical psychologists. Doctors can prescribe medication, but psychologists cannot. At least in the U. S.