Kabbalistic Astrology & Jupiter~Saturn Conjunctions

Greetings, once again.
I'm suffering terribly from a pinched nerve in my right arm that has my neck and shoulder wracked up and has rendered half of my right hand numb and useless and this has been going on for over two months now. I may have to retire from all writing until I can return to normal ...if I can.
I inadvertently drag the little finger over the keys which leads to all sorts of mayhem as for trying to use the keyboard...so, bear with any typos, if you all can, it's a real b**** to even do this much. I'm also going to be as brief as to explanations as I can get away with and in fact am going to copy and paste a a lot from what I email Phoenix Venus the other day...and she has been sweet enough to run down some of the chart work it is taking...

I so do want to get into this topic as I'm re-reading Rabbi Joel Dobin's wonderful book, "Kabbalistic Astrology" for the second time.
I got my copy sometime back in the 1990's and it took awhile to get through it as it is so deep, so esoteric, that by the time I finished it during the summer of 2001 I had already forgotten some of it.

Heck, it's so difficult to type this morning that I'm just going to copy and paste excerpts of what I wrote Her [a real b**** is that my middle finger keeps right clicking when I rest my hand on the mouse...and using my left feels so unatural...sigh] ...hopefully you all can understand and follow along...
ptv.
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NOTICE: I AM USING COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL HERE UNDER THE FAIR USE PROVISION IN THAT IT IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.

"...Dobin's on the way...I got to point out what I was talking about... if I can sit still for a bit i'll type it out and send pics of the couple/few pages that he wrote about it. it has to do with the cycle of conjunctions between Jupiter and Saturn...he says occur apprx. every twenty years...he gets into the number of years of a few cycles, I don't know why I didn't catch it years ago when I first read this part of the book [it's early in the book] but that was the early 90's and I guess some of these concepts were totally new to me at the time and I just glazed over them and picked up the thread on after...."
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"You see, it was not until after i wrote the book that I recall ever hearing of the "Saros". As one of the members of the forum, since resigned in her own way, a Jewish woman that lived in England and claimed to also be a "Rabbi" [she deleted all her posts] told me that the number 666 also has another reference, she said it is the number of the Saros and that it has to do with certain Sun-Moon eclipses [In fact I tried to start compiling charts of what I believed those eclipses are, of which i''m still not sure... I did get a number of them, so if you get into any of this and wish to have them I'll send them along, but I can't guarantee that they are the definition of the exact kind called for...of which I can't recall what kind she said [her name just came back to me, 'Olivia', that was her aw forum name] but the important thing I was trying to determine, at least I think it is important, is what is the length of years of a cycle of the Saros as I: recall the number 666 referred to the number of these eclipses, which doesn't mean that the years add up to the same, in fact it was looking like very far from it if I was on the right track...
But this digression of mine needs to stop... here...
I'm becoming more conscious of time management with each less day I have on this earth... so much to do... and God only knows how much time in which to get it done..."
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"As I'm re-reading the pertinent passage once again I'm getting the itch bad to find out what the symbolic message is.
Think of it Stacey, no one has likely ever glanced upon these in tens of thousands of years...if ever!?!
It's like getting to be the first to see Mt. McKinley or Everest, like seeing Lake Tahoe for the first time back when Fremont was the first white man to in the early 1800's or Niagara Falls, for you East Coasters.
He introduces the concept starting with the significance of the number 20. The number 20 is mentioned many times in the building of the Tabernacle, that every young man, upon turning 20, was responsible for the collective good of the community.
As Saturn is the outermost and slower of the two, it was considered by the ancients to be the "the transmitter of the mysteries","... the 'Divine Messenger'. And since the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction was a twenty year occurrence, the idea developed that God passed on the message of His Divine Will at every Jupiter-Saturn conjunction. Jupiter then passed it on to every planet in the Heavens during the year following, since the Planets sunward of Jupiter make at least one conjunction with Jupiter each year. Thus the astrological rational for the necessity of reaching the age of twenty to be counted as a responsible member of the community was that at least one Jupiter-Saturn conjunction would have occurred before the twentieth birthday...and the young man could know God's Will for him by consulting his astrologer.
YOWSER...I SENSE THAT THIS COULD BE HUGE..."
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"i REALIZE NOW THAT IT IS A LOT MORE THAN JUST ONE CHART AND ONE SABIAN EVERY TWENTY YEARS [WHOOPS...****, my cap key got reversed again, I never understood how I'm causing this] it's every twenty and the year that follows following all the Jupiter-inward conjunctions...whew...!"
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"Now, the Rabbi was ...i hate to say it, pretty bad when it came to any ephemeris work/quotes so be aware of that.
So, the Rabbi goes on and there is a chart ...but like I said about his work..."
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" 'Astrologers also noticed that such conjunctions occurred at least three or four times in the same triplicity, and that the change from one triplicity to the other heralded a major change in the manifestation of God's Will. For example, the last four Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions occurred at the following times: {chart}
Sept. 8 1921 at 26* Virgo
Feb. 15 1941 at 09* Taurus
Feb 19 1961 at 28* Cap.
Dec. 31 1980 at 09* Libra' "
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"He continues..
'The next conjunction of Jup-Sat will take place on the date of May 28, 2000 and will be at 23* Gemini...'
And I wrote in the margin 'actually it was 22* Taurus?
according to ephemeris'
I recall this part now, I did check it out as to my Michaelsens 20th Century Ephemeris, which has always been very trustworthy...and I became a little disillusioned with the book and the Rabbi at this point as it is only at page 27 of the book...so, i dropped the issue, the search right then and there and never got back to it and I'm glad I continued on with the book [I had bought it at the only pure astrology bookstore in Sacramento county and home of Sac's pre-eminent Astrologer at that time...and I can't remember his name, right now, but He turned me on to Don {last name withheld}, when I approached him with the Jesus chart over the phone...hmmm...his name just came back, Wayne Moody. ..and Don hasn't been of much help and about just a jigger more of support....
yeah, so I bought it during my lunch break as i was painting at a school nearby...early 9o's sometime, and pretty much read the bulk of it on lunch and coffee breaks... I didn't finish the book until 2000-2001... when i was injured and then out of work permanently and was living along the river below....learned to do my first Sun pujas at that time...sat on a rock about 80 yrds down river from the Rainbow Bridge almost every single day all day...swimming and reading...got so brown I could pass for about anything shy of Black... I made the best of being out of work and homeless.... looking back, I've realized that I enjoyed the living daylights out of that summer..."
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...and Phoenix Venus wrote back...
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"I just pulled a chart up for the one in 2000... narrowed down to the minute... don't have the patience to do the seconds.... the conj is at 23 Taurus... hmm! With the mc/ic at 25* Taurus/Scorp. and the Asc at 30* Leo...
Asc being 'an unsealed letter' seems to fit with the overall premise you have in mind..."
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...and she followed with...
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".... a jewelry shop filled with valuable gems... the embellishment at the end of a natural process.. certification of personal worth.... hmm.
Oh yeah.. meant to say... down to the minute its 12:02 pm philly time"

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...and I wrote back...
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"As to his alleged conjunction in 2000 in Gemini he goes on to say
'...and will be at 23* Gemini, an Air triplicity in the Mutables. Notice that the conjunctions before 1901...'
and this is where the page ends ...so I'm going to photograph the next couple of pages and note what he says himself about the chart that is the second page acoming.
That'll be a little while later.. basically he's pointing out what relevance the series of conjunction is the Water signs society had to the element as to developments...such as in 1821 Water Signs were the cycle and from 1821 to 1901 were the years the great trade routes were established on the seas...the era of the Clipper ships, the advent of Steam ships...etc..and then it goes on to state that completing one entire cycle is 720 years..and that jibes in with those cycles that i got fascinated with...666 & 888 as he declares that the 720 is a notable divisor of one complete Yuga [not his words but you know what I'm taking about. He says they last 25, 920... although the Hindus, or at least Sri Yukteswar did, say 26,000 years and i believe it to be 26,640 [remember from my book? as 3 xs 888 = 2664 and 4 xs 666 = the same...and how the 108 revolutions of Pluto around the Sun is nearly almost exactly the same?] and notice that the difference between my figures and the Rabbi's is 720 years...!"
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"Well, i was about to say that what I just gave you is adequate, but I realized that wouldn't be fair of me to make that decision for you. There's only 4 more pages of text and one chart that even he admits to not place too much faith in as gospel truth [my words] but to only use it as a general outline for the sake of demonstration and as an aid for understanding."
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"and there are about 8 1/2 p'ages before the text I typed out for you
It's all part of 'Part Two, "ASTROLOGY OF ANCIENT ISRAEL", Chapter 3, "General Principles" ' but I don't know if you'll want those, or even need them at this time...like I said it took me a few to digest it all myself...and i'm still chewing.
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"sol where was the Jupiter-Saturn conj. in 2000, again? Did I have it right or did he?"
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...and Phoenix Venus wrote back...
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"It happened at about 12:02 philly time... 22* Taurus 43'16" ."
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...and I replied...
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"So, I was right..or Michaelsen was, I should say
Because I wrote those margin notes before i ever saw astrodienst or even heard of them.

... this is like there's a 'Frontier' again... uncharted territory...!
I live for that thrill...I'm hooked I'm a Astro-addict"
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my arm is aching terribly. I'm going to stop here, post the chart for the Saturn Jupiter conj. in 2000 and although the Rabbi didn't mention them, I searched out the first conj of the Moon, also did the Sun ~ Jupiter conj. that followed...but I also noticed and mentioned to P.V. that I was wondering if the Rabbi got it right in that it's the sunward planets that come around and conj. Jupiter, not Jupiter catching them and making the conjs...which, actually is pretty obvious to most anyone...but also that they will conj. Saturn first... that's a lot to look at and figure out...but I'm posting the Saturn conjs as well only for convenience sake for those of you that might be interested... for now, just following the Rabbi's directions is enough on one plate...
Ptv



Notice: All Sabian Symbols presented in this thread are taken from Dane Rudhyar's marvelous book, now out of print, "An Astrological Mandala"
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Thanks piercethevale for doing all the work that it takes to get this thread started in spite of the injured hand.

Lets take a look at the symbolic implications of the jupiter-saturn conjunction, keeping in mind the basic thoery of Dobin's:

(Quoted from piercethevales previous post):

"And since the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction was a twenty year occurrence, the idea developed that God passed on the message of His Divine Will at every Jupiter-Saturn conjunction."

Before we crack open the symbols i'd like to point out a few things. This chart was cast using philadelphia, pa, which is the birth place of the united states. Thus it stands that this chart is to be read in regards to the effect that it has during this 20 year cycle on members of the USA.

The chart has some interesting connections to USA's natal chart. The north node is within a degree of a conjunction to USA natal mercury. As the north node in transit indicates the overiding nature of the spiritual purpose of the heavens unfoldment at any given moment, this conjunction is a clear indication that a message is latent regarding citizens of the USA.

Neptune is making a direct conjunction to USA's natal north node.

The charts part of fortune is within a degree conjunction to USA's part of imprisonment.

And the charts IC is a bit over a degree from conjuncting USA's natal part of fortune.

The sun is making a direct conjunction to USA's natal part of destiny and part of astrology.

The sun in transit can be said to describe what precept is coming to light, so it can be said here that what is coming to light is in regards to the nature of the destiny of USA.

All of this seems to be an indication that there is something significant to be found here.

So lets take a look at some symbols. These symbols from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala." Again i will point out that these symbols are being used for educationall purposes.

The Saturn-Jupiter conjunction takes place at 23 taurus:

"A JEWELRY SHOP FILLED WITH VALUABLE GEMS.

KEYNOTE: The social confirmation of natural excellence.

Two elements should be distinguished in this symbolic picture: the gems that result from natural processes, often induced by extreme volcanic heat and pressure, and the finished products of refined craftsmen. Both the gems themselves and the artistry are highly prized and bring prestige to the owner of the jewels. The symbol applies to any product in which culturally acquired skill has embellished or transformed the end results of a lengthy and demanding natural process.

This is the third stage of the eleventh five-fold sequence of phases. At th stage we are concerned with the social process which brings about a CERTIFICATION OF PERSONAL WORTH."

So here we see that this conjunction deals with refinement of a natural process.

We can look at the chart axis to see how this conjunction might fit in with Dobins theory of a message of God's Divine Will

The Ascendant represents the who.

AC @ 30 Leo:

"AN UNSEALED LETTER.

KEYNOTE: The realization by the individual that all thoughts and all messages are inevitably to be shared with all men.

Coming as it does as the end of this tenth scene and linked with the last degree of the zodiacal sign, Leo, this symbol seems at first quite puzzling; when it has been thought of as an isolated symbol, its essential meaning has not been apparent. The fact that a letter is unsealed does not imply a trust that other people will not read its contents, but rather the idea that the contents are for all men to read. The letter contains a public message in the sense that when man has reached the stage of true mental repolarization and development —which we see in the very first symbol for Leo —he has actually become a participant in the One Mind of humanity. Nothing can really be hidden, except superficially and for a brief time. What any man thinks and deeply realizes becomes the property of all men. Nothing is more senseless than possessiveness in the realm of ideas. If God speaks to a man, Man hears the word. Nothing can remain permanently "sealed."

As this thirtieth sequence of five symbols ends, it is made clear to us, and particularly to the inherently proud Leo type, that all that takes form within the mind of a man belongs to all men. Communication and SHARING must always prevail over the will to glorify oneself by claiming sole possession of ideas and information."

Ah... so here we see that this conjunction represents a message for all men to share.... "if God speaks to man, man hears the word." ... gives some credence to this theory of Dobins, in my opinion. "Sharing must always prevail over the will to glorify oneself..."

... sort of reminds me of how this 20 year cycle between sat-jup conjunctions has so prevalently revolved around the rising of the internet....

The DC, or the whom-to... @ 30 aqua:

(This symbol is so long that i had to cut the majority of the text... a shame as its implications are very powerful...)

"DEEPLY BOOTED IN THE PAST OF A VERY ANCIENT CULTURE, A SPIRITUAL BROTHERHOOD IN WHICH MANY INDIVIDUAL MINDS ARE MERGED INTO THE GLOWING LIGHT OF A UNANIMOUS CONSCIOUSNESS IS REVEALED TO ONE WHO HAS EMERGED SUCCESSFULLY FROM HIS METAMORPHOSIS.

KEYNOTE: The ability for the person with an open mind and a deep feeling for self-transcendence to come in contact with higher forms of existence.

The originally recorded Sabian symbol stated: "The field of Ardath in bloom," which referred to a scene in an occult novel by Marie Corelli centering upon ancient Babylon. The reference may well have been a "blind" inasmuch as Marc Jones has stressed his inner contact with a Brotherhood with Babylonian (or "Sabian") roots. A spiritual Brotherhood consitutes a state of "multi-unity" —i.e. a multiplicity of individuals, if one thinks of the paths they trod to reach their final metamorphosis, but a unity of consciousness and "Soul" —thus unanimity ("anima" meaning Soul). In this spiritual Whole each unit is a recognizable "form" or entity if one looks at it with the eyes of personality; but when seen through a unified spiritual vision or from a distance, the Whole appears to be one single area of radiant light. Similarly, when studied by the modern physicist, light can be apprehended either as a stream of identifiable particles (photons) or as one continuous wave. Whether it is seen as one or the other depends on the point of view.

This is the last and culminating symbol of Scene Twenty-two of the cyclic ritual. This is indeed a fitting symbol, as the number 22 symbolizes all forms of mastery. At any level, it is a symbol of spiritual group fulfillment —of CONSCIOUS TOTALITY OF BEING."

This symbol can be taken to describe "The Great White Lodge".. Going along with Dobins theory, and mindful of the fact that this chart axis is sensitive to the birth chart of the nation, this symbol seems to indicate that those citizens who apply themselves towards following God's divine will during this generation, will make great strides at the opportunity to find their place amongst The Great Brotherhood, to find a spiritual group fulfillment ...

I will get to the MC-IC axis in the post to follow....

The IC represents the spiritual why, @ 25 scorpio:

"AN X-RAY PHOTOGRAPH.

KEYNOTE: The capacity to acquire a knowledge of the structural factors in all existence.

The true philosopher is able to grasp and significantly evaluate what underlies all manifestations of life. His mind's eye penetrates through the superficialities of existence and perceives the framework that gives an at least relatively permanent "form" to all organized systems. Thus if the structure is weak, deformed by persistent strain, or unbalanced, the basic causes of outer disturbances and disease can be discovered.

..Beyond the powerful feeling quality of peak experiences," the mind can understand the great Principles of which they were the manifestations. This is STRUCTURAL KNOWLEDGE in contrast o existential knowledge."

So remembering back to the symbol of the conjunction, which talked about refinement towards excellence, we see that this precept of structural knowledge is necessary in order to remove superficialities and expedite that Divine Will towards excellence.

The MC or the HOW @ 25 taurus:

"A VAST PUBLIC PARK.

KEYNOTE: The cultivation of natural energies for collective use and recreation.

At this final stage of the sequence of symbols focusing on emotional-cultural values, we witness the positive and impressive results of man's collective endeavor to live in peace and to enjoy moments of relaxation. The public par is designed and kept for the enjoyment of all the people of the city.

This is a symbol of COLLECTIVE ENJOYMENT. The individual finds in the products of his culture an emotional enhancement born of the feeling of "belonging" to a large, organized, peaceful whole."

... So this all can be achieved through collective enjoyment.. to come together as a large, peaceful whole... rather than succumb to the rat race of aggresive independence that seems to permeate some levels of todays society...

attaining personal excellence through belonging to a greater whole... nice

... the symbol for the part of fortune @ 26 gem goes hand in hand with the IC.... "a process of removal of all superficialities of existence"... "It is not that we experience the Buddhist's void (sunya), but rather that we reach the essence of our individual being, the form of pure selfhood which is the structuring power underneath all external features..."

Oh how the stars align with such cohesive intricacy..

Wow, Phoenix V. your first post has left me in awe of your interpretive skills.
Most excellent.

I'm about to eat a late supper and haven't read what follows next, but I'm rather certain that I won't be disappointed.
You're likely getting flak on quote limitation if you didn't invoke the "fair use" provision by stating so and that it's for educational usage only... which it darn well is.
Read my statement in the first post, in dark red bold text.
Without being able to convey Rudhyar's entire text per each symbol... where would it get the person that reads it?

...that's right, very little

Read it all... dynamite.
I take it to be that it is representative of the root impetus much like a Part of Destin or Hyleg for the USA for the following 20 year period...and the Part for the nation's Astrology...and my Part of Astrology also and sharing the knowledge...and where-to...the destination that is calling...the "White Lodge"...this planet's ascended masters a calling... come join us!
purrfect.

piercethevale said:

Wow, Phoenix V. your first post has left me in awe of your interpretive skills.
Most excellent.

I'm about to eat a late supper and haven't read what follows next, but I'm rather certain that I won't be disappointed.
You're likely getting flak on quote limitation if you didn't invoke the "fair use" provision by stating so and that it's for educational usage only... which it darn well is.
Read my statement in the first post, in dark red bold text.
Without being able to convey Rudhyar's entire text per each symbol... where would it get the person that reads it?

...that's right, very little

Click to expand...

thanks, piercethevale

Yeah you are right, the full text is needed.

I was told i was getting complaints which means it wasnt from one particular thread, its very possible i forgot to mention anything about educational purposes. thanks.

im looking forward to getting into the symbols for the conjunctions to the other planets. particularly the chart dealing with mercury as there seems to be an emphasis on the mind and communication in the jup-sat chart. (The part of destiny for the jup-saturn chart is cancer 29. It stresses the importance of using the "intuitive mind" when coming to decisions.)

... its likely that these other charts can be read as "Gods divine will as channeled through X planet" ...for mercury, His will expressed through the mind, communication...

however im still undecided on what the implications are regarding saturn vs. jupiter conjunctions.... possibly a look at the symbols can help to clear that up...

I did realize later on, though, if you are giving a personal interpretation...then it's not exactly educational. As this thread is purely educational, I don't see how it can be denied.
There's an active contingent, almost to the point of being conspiratorial, here at the forum that is desperate to prevent the veracity of the Sabians from becoming known. I actually question whether any use here at the forum is not educational... as how many people in the world have even ever heard of them much less seem them demonstrated?
I'm going to check my emails and messages and if there hasn't been word from you I'll assume that the chart for Mars needs to be ascertained and I'll get to that here this afternoon [California time].

I just cast myself a chart for the Jupiter-Venus conjunction from the data you sent me...
this chart is a TRIP...!!!
That's four points of the Magen David between the Jupiter-Venus conj. Saturn, Pluto and then to an almost exact Sun-Mercury conj.
You may have noticed that I keep my charts from astrodienst set at 84% orb of aspect so as to reduce the clutter and enables me to see the big picture more clearly. Thus the Neptune Pluto sextile isn't indicated on my chart as it is at 5* 25', but it is certainly there. I have become more and more convinced that the further outward from the Sun a planet is, the more influence it has...regardless of size. The slow deliberate speed of the planet is also part of the contributing factor as it has longer to influence a specific point...imho, of course.

Well, i got the warning around the time i was starting to use the sabians in horaries. i think posting sabs in the horary section might have set off some of the members... i did about three horary interps and made the thread "discoveries of outer planets" within the time span of about a week. it was then that i got the warning.

The discoveries thread was strictly educational... as far as the horaries... well that could go both ways, they were for individuals but sabs in horaries hasnt really been done before us and these interps can be studied and verified... i definitely considered it educational.. my posts in the discoveries thread were editted by the moderator. (Im not sure about the horaries... i dont remember checking them...) i even made the comment to him that they were for educational purposes but he did not respond... didnt really feel like pushing my luck so i didnt pursue that any further.

I only made a jup-venus chart, so mars still has to be made. i also notice merc-jup hasnt been posted yet. i have that one and i might post it later with an interp... i have to go out and take all the dogs at the shelter for their evening walk... so it might be some hours before i can get to that..

...i did want to say though that the saturn-merc conj. chart DOES have some interesting conjunctions regarding USA's chart.

the saturn-mercury conjunction takes place on the same degree as USA's part of nemesis... that is significant especially because saturn is involved in the formula for nemesis

The MC for the chart is conjunct USA's part of noble & illustrious acauaintances.

the Dc is just under a degree from USA's lot of necessity.... which utilizes mercury in the formula!

And also, the position of mars is at 29 sag, which is Yeshua's natal part of tragedy.... a beautiful necessity.... (i also realized recently that is Yeshua and my composite part of destiny... how floored was i to find THAT one...!!)

I just now noticed that it's a N. Node conj. as well... WOW...
I am looking forward to what you have to say about this baby...dang.

Phoenix Venus said:

Well, i got the warning around the time i was starting to use the sabians in horaries. i think posting sabs in the horary section might have set off some of the members... i did about three horary interps and made the thread "discoveries of outer planets" within the time span of about a week. it was then that i got the warning.

The discoveries thread was strictly educational... as far as the horaries... well that could go both ways, they were for individuals but sabs in horaries hasnt really been done before us and these interps can be studied and verified... i definitely considered it educational.. my posts in the discoveries thread were editted by the moderator. (Im not sure about the horaries... i dont remember checking them...) i even made the comment to him that they were for educational purposes but he did not respond... didnt really feel like pushing my luck so i didnt pursue that any further.

I only made a jup-venus chart, so mars still has to be made. i also notice merc-jup hasnt been posted yet. i have that one and i might post it later with an interp... i have to go out and take all the dogs at the shelter for their evening walk... so it might be some hours before i can get to that..

...i did want to say though that the saturn-merc conj. chart DOES have some interesting conjunctions regarding USA's chart.

the saturn-mercury conjunction takes place on the same degree as USA's part of nemesis... that is significant especially because saturn is involved in the formula for nemesis

The MC for the chart is conjunct USA's part of noble & illustrious acauaintances.

the Dc is just under a degree from USA's lot of necessity.... which utilizes mercury in the formula!

And also, the position of mars is at 29 sag, which is Yeshua's natal part of tragedy.... a beautiful necessity.... (i also realized recently that is Yeshua and my composite part of destiny... how floored was i to find THAT one...!!)

Click to expand...

Whoops, I thought I had posted the Jupiter Merc. conj. I forgot that I posted the Saturn Merc.
I ralized later that getting off and into a theory about Saturn conjunctions that will precede every Jupiter comjunction is some thing best left for a separate thread or after we get through what goes strictly by the Rabbi's book.

It sounds to me that you may be getting a certain amount of "special notice" by some that they find it to be exceptionally troublesome as to "Traditional Astrology". If this site doesn't want anything other than Traditional Astrology then why have a degree symbolism forum at all? You're way better at writing, than I am, and the use of the Sabians too, than I am, in some applications that you shine at...such as Astrological Parts... You are the Queen of that realm. Take it as a compliment and an affirmation of your abilities.
In fact it was originally named the Sabian Symbol forum but the admin. seemed intent on diluting it...and a certain contingent came into it suddenly recommended all sorts of sets of symbols and I would take each one on and ask them to provide a demonstration of their veracity and usefulness. Not one did
...as most very likely, no one can.

I'm getting on that Jupiter Mars conj. now as I had to consult a Doctor about my arm and hand this afternoon...and I had to sit and stare, awhile too, in awe of the Jupiter Venus chart... I think that alone has made this a very worthwhile endeavor.

Quote Phoenix V.: "And also, the position of mars is at 29 sag, which is Yeshua's natal part of tragedy.... a beautiful necessity.... (i also realized recently that is Yeshua and my composite part of destiny... how floored was i to find THAT one...!!)"

Wow, that is so totally awesome...!

I see what I did now...I wrote that I was posting the Jupiter Merc. conj. but instead was posting the Saturn Merc. conj.
and I should have left the Jupiter Sun and Jupiter Moon conjunctions out of this until the end of the task at hand or for another thread...my bad.

In fact I should delete those...I'll get to that later.

I'll post that chart for the Jupiter Merc as a full image will be easier for the other members to see...and I just got the chart for the Mars conj. You'll get a kick out of it. It happened on July 3rd, 2002 and the Asc. is the 26th of Leo.
In fact I'll just post all three on the same post...coming up.
..and then I'm going to have to quit for the day, my arm and hand are giving out

The chart axes similarity between the Mercury and the Mars events...

Which only goes to show us with further emphasis how important exact time of event and location is to all charts.

I think charting out where all the conj.s occurred as like a separate chart of it's own may reveal something too... but, that'll have to wait. I have to quit and it's supper time.