Random Thoughts, strictly Text

GemwDepth

GemwDepth

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I have to comment on the 8th, 9th, and 12th astrological abilities another day where I can better work out its core, most simplistic meaning, and then, its greater ramifications. In general, I see house connections as areas of boundaries and dermacation.

For example, to add to the psychological/pain component of the 8th, there is also all types of investigation behind scenes, especially secrets of all kinds. For a neutral planet like Mercury (and perhaps also its higher derivatives), there is no emotions or feelings involved. One writer wrote it best when he said something along the lines of, what do you think the planet of curiosity find when they come to a buffet table where the menu is unlimited? There is a quality of obsessive investigation of all that’s behind the scenes, the depth is only limited by time and will. The difference I see between that, and Mercury Pluto, related connections, is that Merc-Pluto is instaneous, and 8th Merc connections will take time. But also, what it adds to astrology is a natural ability to ferrett out 90+% of things that are illusions, propangada, and agendas, to the nuggets of truth. An ability the majority would not posess.

So, in a few words :smile:
david starling said:
8th, delving into mystery
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conspiracy theorist said:
If the 12th house gives astrological ability it will probably do so because the practitioner is able to connect to the "beyond" and to have a direct relationship with the archetypal/planetary energy in such a way that you can do more justice to communicating what they are trying to convey. The 12th houser will also be more likely to isolate themselves where they can get into a space where the "divine energies" are better able to contact and to meld into the consciousness of the astrologer.
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This is perfect for the 12th, I couldn’t have used more appropriate words.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Lykanized said:
Interesting...If not the 'wounded healer' or representative of our 'primal wound', what do you think Chiron symbolizes in our charts and do you think Chiron's significant?


If it holds any significance whatsoever, what do you think Chiron in Leo in the 12th house would actually manifest? Given that it also has an opposition to my Saturn and square my Pluto, I thought this placement may have been telling of something highly significant and I had much theory about it, but I'm curious of your theory
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In 12/12, Chiron, as a ruler of Sagittarius, is a Sense of Purpose placement in Leo. That would be the ability rise heroically above one's own injuries while continuing to heal others of theirs. In H12, this would be done through the Power of the Imagination, when it's attuned to the higher planes of Existence. Also, in this pattern, Leo is well received in H12, meaning its qualities are strongly expressed.
 
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Lykanized

Lykanized

Well-known member
The 8th is another I curiously relate to without having any placements there. I wonder if having Aries on the cusp may be the reason considering Mars rules that house as well and it's on my ascendant
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Witchyone said:
So, you found its home in 12/12? Cool.

I was reading an argument somewhere about how Chiron is not the same centaur as the one represented by Sagittarius. I was going to post that here and ask you about it, and I completely forgot until now, but it must have been a decent argument, or I probably wouldn't remember it. I'll try to find it again later, but in the meantime, can you remind me why you think both are named after the same centaur?
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The are always variations in Ancient Greek religious tales. I consider the Greco-Roman cultures to be the premier manifestations of the tropical Age of Sagittarius (c.1350B.C.E.-400A.D.), especially the Greek. I've seen that disagreement, and looked at several sources, most of which identify Chiron as representing the Sign itself. In which case, where else COULD Chiron call its home? The Mutability of the Age requires variation, so nothing strange about that. :biggrin:
Also, in 12/12 the Age of Sagittarius was Exalted, and still vitally with us as background to this foreground Age of Capricorn.
 
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D

david starling

Well-known member
Lykanized said:
The 8th is another I curiously relate to without having any placements there. I wonder if having Aries on the cusp may be the reason considering Mars rules that house as well and it's on my ascendant
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How was the recent Mars transit through Aries for you? Should have activated H8. Aries qualities are strongly expressed in H8.
 
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Chrysalis

Chrysalis

Well-known member
david starling said:
The I.C. is strictly internal. [IMO]
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Ahh! that makes sense then. I was awaiting my house to burn down or something lol.

The day mars crossed my IC, i WAS being internally strong, my bf broke up with me the day before over something very minor, but on this occasion i didn't chase him, i allowed him to go, i didn't contact him and just left him to it.

Two days later he was the one pursuing me, apologizing, saying he didn't mean it etc.

So the "internal" makes perfect sense now.
 
Chrysalis

Chrysalis

Well-known member
GemwDepth said:
I have to comment on the 8th, 9th, and 12th astrological abilities another day where I can better work out its core, most simplistic meaning, and then, its greater ramifications. In general, I see house connections as areas of boundaries and dermacation.

For example, to add to the psychological/pain component of the 8th, there is also all types of investigation behind scenes, especially secrets of all kinds. For a neutral planet like Mercury (and perhaps also its higher derivatives), there is no emotions or feelings involved. One writer wrote it best when he said something along the lines of, what do you think the planet of curiosity find when they come to a buffet table where the menu is unlimited? There is a quality of obsessive investigation of all that’s behind the scenes, the depth is only limited by time and will. The difference I see between that, and Mercury Pluto, related connections, is that Merc-Pluto is instaneous, and 8th Merc connections will take time. But also, what it adds to astrology is a natural ability to ferrett out 90+% of things that are illusions, propangada, and agendas, to the nuggets of truth. An ability the majority would not posess.

So, in a few words :smile:



This is perfect for the 12th, I couldn’t have used more appropriate words.
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Having a placidus 8th mercury (as well as sun/saturn), but just going on mercury.

This *in bold* is so me, i leave no stone unturned. When i started my astrology studying, i started out with horary, as i was at the time (well i still am) into card readings, i like to predict the future. I only got into Astrology from delving so deep into tarot cards, and then from this road realizing they are astrologically related...this was my spring board into astrology. Then it was all about horary, like i went really deep with this, now im like okay now i gotta do transits/progressions/timelords/get more perfect at natal/asteroids/fixed stars....everything.

Im a gemini moon, so come on Gemwdepth, you know i why im so into everything at the same time, and also with the 8th house merc, wanting to go so deep and thorough with everything at the same time, can really at times be exhausting...and then to top it off my sun/saturn conjunction, keeps saying "your never gonna be good enough, so whats the point
 
Witchyone

Witchyone

Well-known member
david starling said:
The are always variations in Ancient Greek religious tales. I consider the Greco-Roman cultures to be the premier manifestations of the tropical Age of Sagittarius (c.1350B.C.E.-400A.D.), especially the Greek. I've seen that disagreement, and looked at several sources, most of which identify Chiron as representing the Sign itself. In which case, where else COULD Chiron call its home? The Mutability of the Age requires variation, so nothing strange about that. :biggrin:
Also, in 12/12 the Age of Sagittarius was Exalted, and still vitally with us as background to this foreground Age of Capricorn.
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I don't know of a better place for it. I remembered that you were wondering why there isn't much discussion of the two (the asteroid and the constellation) representing the same entity, so I wasn't sure if you'd seen people arguing the opposite and drawing a distinction between them. I just looked at the wikipedia page and saw it was discovered in 1977, so it was likely named by a scientist with no interest in astrology. I don't know what to do with that. Did you know that Chiron has a weird orbit and comet-like features? Weird.
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
Witchyone said:
I don't know of a better place for it. I remembered that you were wondering why there isn't much discussion of the two (the asteroid and the constellation) representing the same entity, so I wasn't sure if you'd seen people arguing the opposite and drawing a distinction between them. I just looked at the wikipedia page and saw it was discovered in 1977, so it was likely named by a scientist with no interest in astrology. I don't know what to do with that. Did you know that Chiron has a weird orbit and comet-like features? Weird.
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It's an interesting situation. If we accept the concept of Muses, there are spiritual Beings providing inspiration and information to those able and willing to receive it. Urania, whom I equate with the feminine version of Aquarius rulership, in theory can communicate with astrologers directly, and with astronomers indirectly, since astronomy is included in astrology. I've pointed out that when the Muses were first introduced, astrology and astronomy were basically the same thing. The dictionary definition of Urania by modern historians goes along with the modern scientific belief that Muses, along with astrology, are primitive, archaic superstitions: Muse of Astronomy, to the exclusion of Astrology, rather than the correct definition, "Muse of Astrology ".
But, we're stuck with astronomers naming all the modern Planets and asteroids. Those of us who use the ancient deities to inform our astrology have to hope the astronomers get it right. I read an account of of the naming of Chiron, and it seems there was intuitive thinking involved. I'm also impressed by the intuition of so many Modern astrologers that Chiron has an influential place in the Chart. I do feel there's too much emphasis on the "wounded" healer, and not enough on the heroic qualities .
 
conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Lykanized said:
What's your personal take on retrogrades btw? I have my own that makes sense to me, but people seem to have such a variety of takes on what the effect of retrograde motion is on the energy of planets

What do you mean by flamboyant Mercury? It's interesting you think it's also a good Mercury. It seems it's afflicted and the results of those retrogrades can be variable

Oh god writing. Yeah. I know that's my path, but I've encountered so many roadblocks, none to do with creativity or anything, that it almost hurts to read that sentence lol. Especially as of late. But yes, that is my path, my ambition, not what I believe myself to be. I'm still getting my blog started and getting into a groove with it
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What do I mean by flamboyant Mercury? It's colourful, exuberant, creative, vibrant, energetic and "intense". I know you like to attribute a lot of your mental characteristics to having Pluto in your 3rd, but I think that placement is not the main engine behind your idiosyncratic expression.

"Good" is too vague and simplistic a word to describe what I mean - and the state of your Mercury is anything but one-dimensional . The words prolific and loud capture better my meaning. It's a highly expressive and powerful Mercury. It will have a pervasive presence in your life - I feel this is stating the obvious.

My view of retrograde planets is that they are mixture of idiosyncratic, and internalized energies. The Vedics view them as stronger because they are actually closer to the Earth when they are in retrograde motion, thus having a greater energetic stamp on the natives born at that time. I don't have any retrogrades myself so I don't have any personal experience with the energetic pattern.

Which is another interesting thing that is apparent with your Merc - not only is it retrograde, and it also connected with the three outers, which are all retrograde as well. So not only is your Mercury idiosyncratic and interior, but the energies that signify as a class those elements of the human experience that fall beyond order and boundary are all internalized, idiosyncratically handled and find themselves manifesting mostly through your Mercury - yes, I agree that your Mercury is afflicted and we've seen how that has manifested through the various issues you've had surrounding depression, your mental disorders, drug abuse and so on. Being so constantly bombarded by those destabilizing energies might have had the effect of permanently scarring you and "opening you up" - you have no choice but to take part in those deeper psychological and spiritual processes because you don't have the "luxury" of developing a Saturnian membrane that allows you to file away all the chaotic, ungovernable messiness that lies beyond the barrier of societal order and "normalcy".

Chiron in 12th might actually be a mirror to this - a wound that lies within the depth of the unconscious. An opening to the "nether realm" that will never heal.

And then your Mercury is in the sign of Cancer - a watery sign. The most difficult element to direct since it deals with the emotions and intuitions. Even in the tradition since Phlegmatics were seen as the least likely to have worldly success since they were so ruled by their desire nature and lacked the discipline to keep on a track long enough to completion.

Then, your Mercury is close to a powerful fixed star - Sirius, the dogstar.
http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Sirius.html

All of this and your Moon/Mars on the AC wasn't even added yet in regard to its connection to your Mercury.

The thing to bare in mind is that your Mercury is not merely another planet in your chart - but your ascendant ruler. So this goes much deeper than just how your mind works, but in fact how your personality structure is constituted.

And there was no need to bring in the 12th house, 8th house or Scorpio into the mix. It's all right there in the chart - it's just not the instant ramen style that is dominant on the web.

It's a complex Mercury, and it rules your ascendant. It's safe to say that you're a complex person.
 
conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
I don't find it a coincidence that you've chosen the name Lykanized with your AC ruler so close to Sirius - it's "real" and synchronistic.

It's like my name on the forum - I picked it randomly but it just so happens to fit my AC on the galactic center - which was allegedly found prominent in the charts of whistleblowers. And also having my Sun on the Mercury/Pluto midpoint.

We do random things and don't even know that we're still faithfully following our blueprint.
 
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