Really Really Depressed

Situation is: things were going really great with me and my boyfriend up until Monday. I really felt like we were closer than ever. All of a sudden, on Tuesday/Wednesday, things got weird (for me). I felt that being so happy with another person; happier than I have ever been in my life, has resulted in me being incredibly depressed because I see this sort of inevitable ending. Like, I expect him to get sick of me and bored. As if to validate my worries/depression, boyfriend seemed to pull away a bit on Wednesday; like he didn't care if he hung out with me or not that day, and yesterday, he wanted to sleep over but ended up visiting with his friend really late. I was texting him around 2 AM and I told him not to bother coming over because by then I was really upset. I ended up getting in an argument with him because I was so distraught, perceiving that his attitude towards me had changed. He said that he just thought because things were going so smoothly that he would see me soon enough anyway and he wanted to have time to himself and to visit friends. I can understand that, but why does it hurt so much? Why have I been pushing my friends away and ignoring people? Why am I pushing him away? I feel like dumping him because I'm so angry that he might take me for granted. Why is it that the happier I am with someone, the more depressed I become? I am so depressed that I wish I were dead right now. I feel like an *** for looking forward to seeing him so much, I feel like an *** for telling him I'm upset and am disappointed in him that he would, knowing I'm upset, still try to resolve everything via texting/phone. I actually had to call him and he said that he couldn't read my mind or whatever. I am so sick of trying to deal with people. He's just like everyone else. I need to be able to rely on someone when I'm feeling this depressed and if I can't rely on him, who can I rely on? What is the point of being in a relationship if you're just alone anyway?

So, essentially, I'm trying to figure out if there's some major transit affecting me. I see a Moon square Saturn transit that might be the culprit for the depression, but why do I feel this compulsive urge to hurt him and dump him? I've posted my natal chart and transits for anyone's input.

Pluto, to normak

normak,

You said:

normak said:

I felt that being so happy with another person; happier than I have ever been in my life, has resulted in me being incredibly depressed because I see this sort of inevitable ending. Like, I expect him to get sick of me and bored. As if to validate my worries/depression, boyfriend seemed to pull away...I told him not to bother coming over because by then I was really upset. I ended up getting in an argument with him...I feel like dumping him because I'm so angry that he might take me for granted...I'm upset and am disappointed in him that he would, knowing I'm upset, still try to resolve everything via texting/phone. I actually had to call him and he said that he couldn't read my mind...I need to be able to rely on someone when I'm feeling this depressed and if I can't rely on him, who can I rely on? What is the point of being in a relationship if you're just alone anyway?...So, essentially, I'm trying to figure out if there's some major transit affecting me...why do I feel this compulsive urge to hurt him and dump him? I've posted my natal chart and transits for anyone's input.

Click to expand...

First of all, men and women simply look at things differently. There is a wonderful book that explains how all this works called "Men are from Mars Women are from Venus". If you buy this book and read through it you will understand the source of the problem between you and your boyfriend. Back to astrology.

Right now transiting (moving planets in the sky) (transformation, also power, control) is (energy needs to be combined with) birth , indicating a time when you might become powerfully angry. This also suggests a time when you need to "transform" your anger, "digging it up", looking at it, and figuring out why you are angry. is near the relationships house, so this affects your relationships. And is going over your birth (self-expression, also ego), bringing ego issues "front and center" in your life. The issue of being noticed for what you do is now very important. You can't hide from , it will dig up all those things that you have hidden deep and throw them in front of you. So now is the time to handle them.

But, first, I strongly recommend you read the book.

Wishing you well,

Tim

Re: Pluto, to normak

Hi....
Well, first you need to "know yourself" better. By this I mean study your own chart, because the "seeds" of your issue about becoming depressed as you become closer are right there on your 8th house cusp. You have Neptune conjunct Sun straddling your 8th cusp.


As was inferred in the last post, Pluto and your 8th house are powerful in your chart. Besides the 8th house Plutonian influence, your Moon is in Scorpio (Pluto ruled), and you have Pluto conjunct Saturn natally.


YOu also have Jupiter in Scorpio, conjunct the moon, and that makes your emotions magnified 100 times. So everything you feel and possibly project, can really really overwhelm any man who is not mature, intellegent and experienced enough to know that your emotions are the manifestation of great insecurity.


You need to go back into your early life and figure out why you are so insecure. Ask yourself all the difficult questions and read some good books about dysfunctional families and difficult childhood issues. I suspect you have been taught by experience that nothing and no one can be trusted, and as you said, that can be a self fulfilling prophecy.

HOwever, don't blame yourself for what has happened. You give no information about the guy, and he could just be the totally wrong man for you, or someone who just can't deal with emotions.

My suggestion would be to make sure future prospects are mature and willing to discuss all aspects of relationship with you... someone not afraid of emotions or communications.


Also, texting: listen, when a man knows you are available 24 hours a day, there's no challenge left. You need some rules (for yourself) about phone calls, emails and texting. Sometimes you need to NOT be available, no matter how much you care for someone. And NEVER let a guy come over to your house and bed without prior arrangement. Being too available is death to the mystery that is WOMAN.


You need to learn all about your own chart, your "self" and Patience. And you need to make your own rules, and then stick to them. There's a wonderful book about relationships, easy to read and very practical called "Are You the One for Me?" by Barbara DeAngelis. Please get it and read it before you embark on another relationship.
There's also a wonderful book called "Healing the Child Within" by Charles Whitfield which I strongly suspect would help you throughout the rest of your life. Also very easy to read inexpensive (both are paperback.)
LIN

Re: Pluto, to normak

Some information on "the guy:" we've been together for over a year, very serious, contemplating/talking about moving in together and marriage. So, we're past the point where we I need to worry about being "too available" to him. = I also usually make him text me first and take every opportunity to visit with friends/family and pursue hobbies without him. We say we love each other every day and were friends long before we started dating. He has a lot of earth in his chart; ironically, an emphasis on Virgo and Scorpio (stellium in Virgo in 7th house, Scorpio Mars in the 8th house, Cancer Venus in the 5th, rising sign Pisces). I suppose we may not be considered to be the most astrologically compatible, but our Synastry and Composite look promising and karmic(which may or may not be good ).

Also, I have never been happier in a relationship; never felt more healthy companionship with another human being. Therein lies the problem. The closer I get, the more frightened I become. Also, my grandfather is dying, I finalized my divorce from my ex early this year, and am still having post-traumatic stress reactions because the relationship with my ex was abusive and I had basically been brainwashed and had no self esteem the entire time. I am afraid to get close, but it is too late; I am already too close. I'm in love and deathly afraid of loss. I had a full-blown panic attack last night and am still trying to determine what it was that set me off. I suppose it's just that I can't really trust anyone. My early childhood was very difficult. My mother was always stressed out and critical and explosively angry and my dad always disapproved of me. He had such high hopes for me and when I didn't meet his expectations he said that I was a failure and he had lost hope in me. My boyfriend has helped me with a lot of these issues but I still don't want to depend on him because he could turn on me someday just like every other man in my life has (even though I have no reason to suspect he will). Anyway, my relationship is happy overall and we are looking to the future, but I am afraid that he will suddenly get bored with me or something and betray me. I really don't like myself and have no faith in humanity, too. Doesn't help much.

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses; now I have to figure out how to talk to my boyfriend again and apologize for what he correctly identified last night as a panic attack. He knows me pretty well I still feel like I ******* everything up just because I got upset and needed help. I hate asking for help and needing support.

I know I'm going through some difficult Pluto transits (thank you, Tim, for your input), esp. the Pluto on my Sun which occurred right when I decided to shed some extra weight and leave my husband. Unfortunately, despite being athletic and healthy, I still see the same person I was before. Also, the Pluto square Mars worries me. It began right when I finalized my divorce proceedings and have found that I have had to be utterly ruthless when it comes to my ex-husband. I have cut him out of my life completely.

Thank you also to the person who mentioned that I should pray. I think I will do that; I am sure that things will turn out for the best either way.

Lin said:

Hi....
Well, first you need to "know yourself" better. By this I mean study your own chart, because the "seeds" of your issue about becoming depressed as you become closer are right there on your 8th house cusp. You have Neptune conjunct Sun straddling your 8th cusp.


As was inferred in the last post, Pluto and your 8th house are powerful in your chart. Besides the 8th house Plutonian influence, your Moon is in Scorpio (Pluto ruled), and you have Pluto conjunct Saturn natally.


YOu also have Jupiter in Scorpio, conjunct the moon, and that makes your emotions magnified 100 times. So everything you feel and possibly project, can really really overwhelm any man who is not mature, intellegent and experienced enough to know that your emotions are the manifestation of great insecurity.


You need to go back into your early life and figure out why you are so insecure. Ask yourself all the difficult questions and read some good books about dysfunctional families and difficult childhood issues. I suspect you have been taught by experience that nothing and no one can be trusted, and as you said, that can be a self fulfilling prophecy.

HOwever, don't blame yourself for what has happened. You give no information about the guy, and he could just be the totally wrong man for you, or someone who just can't deal with emotions.

My suggestion would be to make sure future prospects are mature and willing to discuss all aspects of relationship with you... someone not afraid of emotions or communications.


Also, texting: listen, when a man knows you are available 24 hours a day, there's no challenge left. You need some rules (for yourself) about phone calls, emails and texting. Sometimes you need to NOT be available, no matter how much you care for someone. And NEVER let a guy come over to your house and bed without prior arrangement. Being too available is death to the mystery that is WOMAN.


You need to learn all about your own chart, your "self" and Patience. And you need to make your own rules, and then stick to them. There's a wonderful book about relationships, easy to read and very practical called "Are You the One for Me?" by Barbara DeAngelis. Please get it and read it before you embark on another relationship.
There's also a wonderful book called "Healing the Child Within" by Charles Whitfield which I strongly suspect would help you throughout the rest of your life. Also very easy to read inexpensive (both are paperback.)
LIN

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[Mod edit - to move the new response above the old quoted post, so as to make the post more reader-friendly.]

If you check your chart using the equal house system you will see that Mars moves into the 4th and Saturn moves into the 5th. Also in both systems Uranus is pretty close to the 7th house cusp. Also, the Sun moves into the 7th, where it is conjunct Neptune.

Sun in the 7th is good for relationships/marriage, but the Neptune will most likely give you some misinterpretations of who, and when.

When planets are so close that they change houses using a different system, I feel that they can be seen as having an influence there. Equal house proponents will even say, that is where they belong.

Also your natal moon square venus probably gives you some sensitivity and changeability in your love life.

Ajar said:

If you check your chart using the equal house system you will see that Mars moves into the 4th and Saturn moves into the 5th. Also in both systems Uranus is pretty close to the 7th house cusp. Also, the Sun moves into the 7th, where it is conjunct Neptune.

Sun in the 7th is good for relationships/marriage, but the Neptune will most likely give you some misinterpretations of who, and when.

When planets are so close that they change houses using a different system, I feel that they can be seen as having an influence there. Equal house proponents will even say, that is where they belong.

Also your natal moon square venus probably gives you some sensitivity and changeability in your love life.

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Yeah, that would "fit" better. Also, doesn't Mars in the 4th indicate a difficult/abusive upbringing? If this is the case, it definitely fits my childhood to a T. Also, with Saturn in the 5th, doesn't this indicate future difficulties having children, especially since Saturn is almost completely unaspected? Or, does it have to do more with the ruler of the 5th? In equal house, would the ruler be Mercury or Venus? Saturn in the 5th would also denote difficulties/restraint where artistic and/or pleasurable pursuits are concerned, yes?

Normak,
I wanted to just encourage you,It does seem clear you have trust and commitment issues.It's like your so afraid of one day being rejected that you reject first.The day you got into that fight he was right in saying he felt you were pushing him away because you were.Be careful how you do that because he may start not trusting your feelings for him.You projected your insecurity on to him,you two being so close you didn't have to tell him to back off that night he sensed it and in response spent time with his friends instead.In turn you got mad for something that you began.Then you text him and tell him don't bother coming over.I don't know if I were him I would have felt hurt.Maybe like you playing games with me.I give you what you want then you don't want it.Listen you said yourself you have never been happier with him,then act it or if you can't tell him what your dealing with.Even though you don't like you it doesn't seem to bother him a bit though when these sort of things happen its probably confusing for him but in spite of it He loves you.Don't sabatage your relationship because your afraid of what "might happen".He obviously isn't bored with you,He's your friend as you said and your lover-How lucky are you!I know you feel like good things can't last for you because of your past,but evreything in a relationship needs to be talked about,if you can bring yourself to talk to him about some of these things you'll be surprised how much better you feel and you'll get that confirmation your looking for that he loves you and he understands and maybe you'll learn something about yourself and him too.Don't keep these things bottled up they wind up coming out in other ways"anxiety attacks".I tell you all this because I have had similiar problems and as I've grown I have found how silly I had been not to just have trusted my other enough just to tell him how I feel.

The moon is transiting over your IC and it may make you feel isolated, reverting to the inner you. The moon here can make one ask "who takes care of me?" "how can I take care and mother myself?" As no one can do that for you. You may depend on men to validate you...sun square mars perhaps?
I am glad you took some time and focused on you! With your personal life. You deserve that. We all go through times where we are allowed to throw tantrums here and there. I want you to know it is okay to have feelings!
I would have been angry at him too....remember dont apologize for your feelings unless you take some time to think about them, moon in Scorpio can lead to some really intense feelings. Maybe rationalize them a bit then go back.
If you are depressed then your inner instinct is telling you that it is time to change...Pluto 8th house
You go girl (cliche, but I had to say it)

Normak, I am just thinking that, though not much into the Equal-house system myself, it might be the one that suits you more than Placidus. This, as considering that you have your Sun in Sag, Asc in Gem, Ven in Aqua and Dsc in Sag; all signs that are quite freedom-loving and independent, and not all that partner-focused (to put it broadly); I am time and again (through your threads) surprised at your own tenacious focus (Sun) on this subject. You do have a Scorp Moon though that can get quite fixated on things, and honestly, I haven't really looked at all the aspects the likes of natal Pluto make to peronal planets, plus Nep in the 7th also plays its role, and of course you have a concentrated Cap Merc; yet, with the Sun moving into the 7th house (through Equal-house system), this would really explain that partnerships/relationships is your 'central' theme in life, and that you seek your identity (Sun) through your partner/rel'ships (7th house). Of course, this could really hold good, if you could say that you have always been quite focused on others (read the next sentence) (and if other planetary placements fit, too). Or, the other way one could explain this present mild fixation would be through that long transit of Pluto over your Sun (core, self-expression, ego) and Merc (the mind).

AQ7

aquarius7000 said:

Normak, I am just thinking that, though not much into the Equal-house system myself, it might be the one that suits you more than Placidus. This, as considering that you have your Sun in Sag, Asc in Gem, Ven in Aqua and Dsc in Sag; all signs that are quite freedom-loving and independent, and not all that partner-focused (to put it broadly); I am time and again (through your threads) surprised at your own tenacious focus (Sun) on this subject. You do have a Scorp Moon though that can get quite fixated on things, and honestly, I haven't really looked at all the aspects the likes of natal Pluto make to peronal plannets, plus Nep in the 7th also plays its role in the 7th and of course you have a concentrated Cap Merc; yet, with the Sun moving into the 7th house (through Equal-house system), this would really explain that partnerships/relationships are your 'central' theme in life, and that you seek your identity (Sun) through your partner/rel'ships (7th house). Of course, this could really hold good, if you could say that you have always been quite focused on others (read the next sentence) (and if other planetary placements fit, too). Or, the other way one could explain this present mild fixation would be through that long transit of Pluto over your Sun (core, self-expression, ego) and Merc (the mind).

AQ7

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That could definitely be true; part in part due to circumstances (recent divorce; negative relationships with all male figures in my life, serious relationship), but I have always sought validation through others. In fact, the focus of my therapy session today was on the fact that I am pretty much "empty" inside and have no self-concept aside from what others say or think of me. I have talked with my boyfriend a bit about this and he has been supportive overall; there have been a lot of misunderstandings due to me jumping to conclusions, panicking, and being mistrustful (hence big blowout last night). Oddly enough, he also has a 7th house sun and stellium of planets in the 7th. He is always trying to please others as well, although he seems to have a pretty firm self-concept. I don't feel I was justified in getting angry last night but it definitely drudged up some old childhood sludge particularly re: my dad. My therapist told me today that, hands down, I have one of the most horrific childhoods of any of her clients, including those who have been physically abused and such. She says there's nothing that quite takes the spirit out of a child more than an admired parental figure telling the child that he/she is a disappointment or has failed them.

Small comfort, normak, but your parents' reactions are theirs, and have to do with their issues and have absolutely nothing to do with you. I hope you find a way of letting go of the past somewhat and heal your inner child. I struggle with similar issues, and it's always interesting to see what triggers those feelings. It's always something unconscious.

You'll get there. The great thing about Pluto transits is that you can dredge all that stuff up, and get rid of it, or at least air it out. Not easy, but well worth it.

AG

normak said:

Yeah, that would "fit" better. Also, doesn't Mars in the 4th indicate a difficult/abusive upbringing? If this is the case, it definitely fits my childhood to a T. Also, with Saturn in the 5th, doesn't this indicate future difficulties having children, especially since Saturn is almost completely unaspected? Or, does it have to do more with the ruler of the 5th? In equal house, would the ruler be Mercury or Venus? Saturn in the 5th would also denote difficulties/restraint where artistic and/or pleasurable pursuits are concerned, yes?

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Re: Mars in the 4th
From http://www.myastrologybook.com/Mars-in-the-fourth-house-4th-house.htm
"Tension, discord or anger deep within you may be reflected in your domestic life until recognized, understood, and surrendered - when peace can truly enter your soul. Until then, your intimate partners may experience some of your energy as "sand in the bed." If your Mars is afflicted, you're apt to have a dominating mother, strife at home, and/or problems related to changing residences."

Also check Saturn in the 5th at that site, and all aspects to it in your natal.

and remember Jupiter in the 5th can offset some of the negative pressures.


BTW, I also have Mars in the 4th in my Natal using the Equal house system, and Saturn in my 4th using Placidus, and suffice it to say, my childhood was not one I would wish on others.

normak said:

Situation is: things were going really great with me and my boyfriend up until Monday. I really felt like we were closer than ever. All of a sudden, on Tuesday/Wednesday, things got weird (for me). I felt that being so happy with another person; happier than I have ever been in my life, has resulted in me being incredibly depressed because I see this sort of inevitable ending. Like, I expect him to get sick of me and bored. As if to validate my worries/depression, boyfriend seemed to pull away a bit on Wednesday; like he didn't care if he hung out with me or not that day, and yesterday, he wanted to sleep over but ended up visiting with his friend really late. I was texting him around 2 AM and I told him not to bother coming over because by then I was really upset. I ended up getting in an argument with him because I was so distraught, perceiving that his attitude towards me had changed. He said that he just thought because things were going so smoothly that he would see me soon enough anyway and he wanted to have time to himself and to visit friends. I can understand that, but why does it hurt so much? Why have I been pushing my friends away and ignoring people? Why am I pushing him away? I feel like dumping him because I'm so angry that he might take me for granted. Why is it that the happier I am with someone, the more depressed I become? I am so depressed that I wish I were dead right now. I feel like an *** for looking forward to seeing him so much, I feel like an *** for telling him I'm upset and am disappointed in him that he would, knowing I'm upset, still try to resolve everything via texting/phone. I actually had to call him and he said that he couldn't read my mind or whatever. I am so sick of trying to deal with people. He's just like everyone else. I need to be able to rely on someone when I'm feeling this depressed and if I can't rely on him, who can I rely on? What is the point of being in a relationship if you're just alone anyway?

So, essentially, I'm trying to figure out if there's some major transit affecting me. I see a Moon square Saturn transit that might be the culprit for the depression, but why do I feel this compulsive urge to hurt him and dump him? I've posted my natal chart and transits for anyone's input.

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with all due respect, I think you need a good therapist ASAP....

I wonder if its because sometimes when we are blissfully happy, we are affraid we are going to loose whats good in our lives so we unconsiously push them away in order to control what we can.
The more happier we are the more we have to loose effect.
Hope you feel better soon.

I agree with DiDi
Sounds like you've had too much stress and trauma in your life and this is your defense mechanism kicking in because you're afraid of more trauma

Effie said:

with all due respect, I think you need a good therapist ASAP....

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Yeah, I've been seeing a good therapist for quite some time now. However, I have the additional complication of having bipolar disorder (II) and trying to regulate meds for that, as well as an eating disorder. YAY!

I do feel that a lot of it has to do with being really happy and really really afraid of losing that happiness, because it seems like I've always lost anything that has made me happy in my life.

hi, i hope u get ur meds sorted out soon so u can feel better.
if it helps any.. we all feel that way from time to time!
perhaps take a breath and step back if you must, just a step then allow yourself to get use to being happy bit by bit. so its not to overwhealming.

Remember, your moon is asking "how can I take care of myself, how can I nurture myself"
Take this hard time to nurture yourself, you probably really need it especially with your ill Grandfather.

normak said:

Yeah, I've been seeing a good therapist for quite some time now. However, I have the additional complication of having bipolar disorder (II) and trying to regulate meds for that, as well as an eating disorder. YAY!

I do feel that a lot of it has to do with being really happy and really really afraid of losing that happiness, because it seems like I've always lost anything that has made me happy in my life.

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yeah, I know how it feels because I have to deal with some of these issues too myself, so I knew from personal experience; especially with being so happy that you feel that something bad will happen and bring you back to "reality" and you will lose all this happpiness and bliss that seems so unreal. I have dealt with that two times so far, I definitely know how it feels and when you get disappointed (in my case, I got disappointed because it was just an illusion), you crash so hard that the pain can become unbearable. So, I know how it feels....

Best wishes, and I hope all turns out very well at the end,
Effie.

Effie,
I have the same self-defeating thought when something goes right, I get so scared it will all go wrong, so I look for the worst in things, that way I wont get dissapponted. Do you have Saturn square your sun?
I wonder what placement would cause this?