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Degree Symbols Discuss your experiences with all symbol systems based on astrological degrees in the chart (i.e., Sabian Symbols, Kozminsky Symbols, etc.): the symbols for the transiting Sun and Moon and the events of your life, the symbols of your natal chart...


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  #1  
Unread 06-02-2011, 02:16 AM
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What Are Sabian Symbols

a reply to me from the Sabian Assembly regarding the integrity of the symbols.


Dear David,
Marc Edmund Jones was the originator of the Sabian symbols, with the assistance of the visions of Elsie Wheeler. He later gave permission to Dane Rudhyar to use them in a book and modify the titles according to his own style and purpose. Others have come after him, modifying them to their own use, but common sense says there must be some obvious relationship to the original titles for the Sabian symbols or they aren't the Sabian symbols. They are some other kind of symbols. The Sabian Assembly does't own the word Sabian (you can read an article on the website about the origins of the word Sabian), but the term "Sabian Astrology" is trademarked by the Sabian Assembly -- and that title, describing the system of astrology that Marc Edmund Jones created, has been in use for well over 50 years. Sabian Astrology does not refer to the Sabian symbols. It refers to the entire system of astrology that Dr. Jones developed, taught and used. It is the system used by the majority of Sabian Assembly members and others who find value in the system.
I can only say that if someone wants to call all symbols for astrological degrees "Sabian" and they don't bear any resemblance whatsoever to the original Sabian symbols, their lack of knowledge will be apparent.
I hope this answers your questions.
Best regards,
Diana E. Roche

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Unread 06-02-2011, 03:10 AM
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Re: This needs to be a sticky!

...and this arrived today in my e-mail, the day of the new moon in Gemini 12* Rudhyar's definition being, "Liberation from ghosts of the past".
Fascinating!
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Unread 06-02-2011, 03:30 AM
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Re: This needs to be a sticky!

I agree with this 100%; there are other systems of astrological symbols, one of which goes back to the 9th century (connected with the decanates, and found in the Picatrix); but there is (to me at least) only 1 original set of Sabian symbols, and I think they should be set forth as they were first developed, and I also agree that the word "Sabian" should be exclusive to those original symbols (Sabean is a different word, and has a different original application, being specific to the residents of the ancient city of Harran; but that is NOT the same word as "SABIAN", which-outside of certain non-astrological historical applications-should be used only in reference to the original system of Sabian symbols)

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Unread 07-26-2011, 03:03 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

I keep forgetting how this works. If I have a planet at 10 degrees, 52 minutes Taurus, which Sabian symbol interpretation do I use:

10 Taurus: A red cross nurse

or

11 Taurus: A woman sprinkling flowers

thanks
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Unread 07-26-2011, 03:09 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

You round up: so it would be = to 11 Taurus (a woman sprinkling flowers)
HOWEVER,
...there are a couple of sites which have realigned the Sabian numeration to fit the sign numeration used today all over the world: IF you are using the numeration from one of those sites, then 10Taurus52 would be still regarded as 10 Taurus (a red cross nurse)

THE SABIAN DEGREE NUMERATION LIST HERE ON AW IS OF THE FIRST KIND MENTIONED, where you need to round up to the next degree.
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Unread 07-26-2011, 03:14 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

Thanks dr. farr, I can relate to both unfortunately, so I'll have to sit and ponder it a bit.
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Unread 07-26-2011, 03:20 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

Actually that can happen often, when we look at something as close as 2 degrees in the same sign.
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Unread 07-26-2011, 03:31 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowergirl View Post
Thanks dr. farr, I can relate to both unfortunately, so I'll have to sit and ponder it a bit.
Interesting...last time I checked they had the Sabians listed from 0 to 29 degrees...and I did send them an e-mail voicing my concern over that and giving my reasons...and now it's 1 to 30. I'm certainly glad to see that has happened.
As to the symbolism...these energies/precepts/cosmic laws/ that are represented by the Sabian Symbols 'MELD' one into the next...clockwise and/or counter-clockwise...as you approach the cusp between degrees the influence of the next [or preceding] degree increases...The Universe is analog...not digital...remember those old analog radios?...as you turned the dial one way or the other...the station you had just been listening to loud and clear now becomes a little fainter with just a hint of some other station coming in...turn it some more and that 'other station' mixes in even more...and so on...
It works like that...
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Unread 07-26-2011, 03:37 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowergirl View Post
I keep forgetting how this works. If I have a planet at 10 degrees, 52 minutes Taurus, which Sabian symbol interpretation do I use:

10 Taurus: A red cross nurse

or

11 Taurus: A woman sprinkling flowers

thanks

Yes, Dr. Farr is correct...and as you are within 8 minutes to the 12th degree ...which occurs at 11* 00' 00.ooooooooooo.........1" .....take into some consideration that symbol also...but just a tad...[IMH... but informed and experienced... O.]...remember that they do meld...and are of natural sequence so it might be said that one would consider the preceeding and following symbology anyways...to some 'degree' regardless of how close one is to either cusp....time and continued observation will tell exactly...and right now I'm just tickled that the awareness of Sabians is catching on...period.
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Unread 07-11-2013, 11:56 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

the Sabian symbols were brought into manifestation in the span of a day in Balboa Park, San Diego, California through the combined efforts of Marc Edmund Jones and Elsie Wheeler.
As Marc later described the occasion, he sponsored Elsie because he admired her spunk. Elsie had a brilliant and imaginative mind but she was seriously crippled with arthritis and confined to a wheelchair. "She couldn't turn her head and could barely hold her hands." At that time Elsie was scared of anything psychic, but within a year she had become one of Marc's students, joined a spiritualist church and was making a good living as a medium. She was by her handicap, however, very limited in general world experience, and that limitation would later determine her role in bringing through the Sabian symbols, a set of 360 separate and unique images.
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Unread 07-12-2013, 03:55 PM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

I've looked at a number of charts recently using only the Sabians, including some of famous people and they are AMAZINGLY accurate.
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Unread 08-02-2013, 01:52 PM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

is the sight for the symbols not working for anyone else?

this is the second computer that I tried it on in the past couple days..

hopefully it is just temporary..

is it wrong to of had an insight into this and copy down all the symbols into a document?
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Unread 08-02-2013, 02:13 PM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

There are at least 4 other symbol systems. Two others are the symbols of Charubel and the symbols of Sepharian. The combination of these three can be very very enlightening sometimes.
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Unread 08-03-2013, 07:52 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
There are at least 4 other symbol systems. Two others are the symbols of Charubel and the symbols of Sepharian. The combination of these three can be very very enlightening sometimes.
Sure, there are many of those kind of degree symbols, but they are not Sabian Symbols as per what and why this thread, turned a "Stickey", is all about.

Yes, they can be very, very enlightening, in that once you start trying to use them for any astrological interpretations you'll soon realize the veracity and value of the real deal, the Sabian Symbols ...that is, only if you've already spent adequate time utilizing the Sabian Symbols and
have no trouble with comprehending symbolism in general.

As both Marc Edmond Jones and Dane Rudhyar noted that the system given by Cherubel was symbols that were workable and of some relative value but the two of them both declared them to be too difficult to comprehend for even themselves as pertaining to a great many of the symbols to certain and specific degrees of the Zodiac and I seem to recall that there were many that they never did 'see' any real connection as to matters of astrology.

I saw the connection the very first time for the very first Sabian Symbol I was shown by my brother in 1984...at which time I was visiting him in Los Angeles and hadn't seen him for over three years. Since I had last visited him he'd gotten laid off from work and was awaiting the promised immanent recall almost two and a half of those years.

As the avid reader that he has always been, He read a multitude of books on astrology which, I was kind of a shocked to find out as we had been raised by staunch believers in the records of the "Readings" given by the late, great, 20th century American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, whom we also had studied and become convinced of the near infallibility of those, painstakingly, hand recorded [in steno] readings by Gladys Davis from the first one to the last he ever gave over a period that lasted over 30 years. Cayce said and repeated on numerous sessions when asked about the value of using or studying the subject, that, astrology, certainly was a valid science and of inestimably valuable, thousands of years ago in Humankinds' all but completely forgotten past of great antiquity but the understanding of it and the applications of analysis and interpretation had fallen as to such a degree that it was not only useless but of great potential damage to apply to ones birth data at that time.

My brother told me that after reading dozens and dozens of books on the subject in that idle time He was convinced He had found enough truth remaining in it to make it a viable hobby, if nothing else, but believed He could take it further in the right direction and help cull out some of what was wrong about it.

I was beyond skeptical, I was nearly of total disbelief. I even figured that what he'd claimed to have found to be correct was, at best, some of those old adages about what Sign, was what Element, what gemstones and colours were associated with the signs, what planet was love, which was war...that sort of astrological "knowledge".

He showed me the first natal chart for myself that I had ever seen [accurate anyways, as he did have my birth time of day which I didn't even know... or remember I had known, but forgotten... back then as he had asked our mother for it. I had seen a Sun chart drawn up with the notation that I was very likely a Scorpio Asc. in '76] and I sort of tried to give it the brush off by commenting that I had been told before that I was a Scorpio rising and my gemstone was an emerald and he interjected and said yes, all that but you never saw it with the axis in correct position and pointed out that my Moon. Sun and Pluto were conjunct all the other three points other than the Asc.
He then declared that Pluto was near unquestionably the most influential Planet in my chart to me. He made mention of a few things about my personality, and mannerisms etc that He saw as confirmation of this.
I still wasn't sold beyond it being a bit more of a curiosity than I believed it to have been previously. Then Daniel pointed to the degree of Pluto and read me the Sabian Symbol and analysis, definition and summation by Dane Rudhyar.
I definitely bought at least "a pound of That!", that evening. After 9 more months that we lived together again for the last time since childhood I was "preaching to the choirmaster himself" before I left to return to Northern Calif. and make a second try at a go of it with my, now, 'ex' wife, of a short 5 years.
Daniel told me that it was stacked against the relationship lasting but as she ad I were both Taurus he admitted that dogged determination or downright stubbornness to change might just give it that chance.
He was right about it being stacked against us.

But, I'll never forget seeing what he was implying and why he chose Pluto from my chart to try to sell me as to not just dismiss the study with a wave of my hand.
It was the first real answer as to what occurred to me some 16 years earlier the very first time I was given instruction in yoga, meditation and a mantra to try and did so.
Making "samyama' on the bij-mantra, OM, the first attempt at age 15. Which He knew of as I had told him bout it and discussed it with him many times over the years as to why i chose a path of Oriental origin while he was drawn to that of the shamanistic.

He had explained to me that Pluto is the "Planet of Death and, or, Transformation." and backed up the statement by showing me numerous concurrent statements to that fact in many books of astrology that he read and possessed. Then noted that my natal Pluto was given 'a little extra something' being as within the considered allowable orb of a conjunction to the M.C. and having got me primed and ready for the closing sales pitch, he noted its' Zodiacal degree and sprung upon me the Sabian Symbol.

My Pluto is in the 21st degree of Leo and the "Keyword{s}" summation by Rudhyar on that degree is the "PREMATURE EXPANSION OF CONSCIOUSNESS"


Why don't you start a thread on one of these other set of symbols that you find so usefull and demonstrate how and why on the chart of someone publically well enough known to know, at least a few, intimate details about as to enlighten myself and others?
I'd be delighted to read your findings as well.
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Unread 03-15-2014, 08:44 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

The Sabian Symbols were created in 1925 through a accord amid Marc Edmund Jones and analytic Elsie Wheeler. Jones was an able astrologist. He capital to actualize a new set of symbols that would advice others accept abstruse meanings. He took the amphitheater of the zodiac and disconnected it into 360 degrees, giving anniversary afterlife 30 degrees. This bankrupt down a brilliant assurance into 30 altered possibilities. For example, if you were built-in a Pisces, depending on the amount aural Pisces that you were built-in would allege added about your appearance than just a accepted overview of the sign. The amount of anniversary planet at the time a being was built-in is aswell amenable for characteristics, so the sum absolute of all these altered symbols would spell out a abundant appearance analysis.
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Unread 03-18-2014, 10:58 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketan123 View Post
The Sabian Symbols were created in 1925 through a accord amid Marc Edmund Jones and analytic Elsie Wheeler. Jones was an able astrologist. He capital to actualize a new set of symbols that would advice others accept abstruse meanings. He took the amphitheater of the zodiac and disconnected it into 360 degrees, giving anniversary afterlife 30 degrees. This bankrupt down a brilliant assurance into 30 altered possibilities. For example, if you were built-in a Pisces, depending on the amount aural Pisces that you were built-in would allege added about your appearance than just a accepted overview of the sign. The amount of anniversary planet at the time a being was built-in is aswell amenable for characteristics, so the sum absolute of all these altered symbols would spell out a abundant appearance analysis.
I deleted my original reply here today as I realized it made no sense and that I actually had no clue then, or yet presently, as to what this member was talking about.
I think it may be that they were inferring that the Sabian Symbols also had something to do with ones' physical appearance and if that is indeed what they were inferring I can answer that with a very emphatic, "No Way". I've never seen even the slightest indication of that
7/26/2017 @ 4:55 P.M. PST
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Unread 03-18-2014, 11:00 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

...and besides that, you're the only astrologer that has ever made a claim that they contribute anything all to physical appearance to my knowledge.
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Unread 07-25-2014, 05:12 PM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

Melding makes a lot of sense. I’m reminded of a mixture in blender. As you watch it swirling around,sometimes you see more of one ingredient, other times little lumps, and maybe specks of colors. Blending-melding vs. dividing-separating. One seems more natural in a fluid, continuous state and the other more at-home with defined by points. In general, humans are more accustomed to living in the reality of clearly defined points.

I've had different types of experiences of a planet’s degree and its before/after symbols compared with AC/DC-MC/IC cusp symbols. Both have that melding quality, but the planet symbols are the layers (positive, negative,unknown, etc.) I've accumulated over time(lifetimes?). All 3 of each planet's symbols are related to this life's layer. They're inseparable and intergrating in preparation for the next layer. The cusp symbols are quite different. They're action, events,outcomes, and transitional. Each cusp's 3 symbols have a transient quality--separate from the "layer".
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Unread 07-25-2014, 07:06 PM
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Re: This needs to be a sticky!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
I agree with this 100%;
there are other systems of astrological symbols, one of which goes back to the 9th century (connected with the decanates, and found in the Picatrix);
but there is (to me at least) only 1 original set of Sabian symbols,
and I think they should be set forth as they were first developed,
and I also agree that the word "Sabian" should be exclusive to those original symbols
(Sabean is a different word,
and has a different original application,
being specific to the residents of the ancient city of Harran;
but that is NOT the same word as "SABIAN",
which - outside of certain non-astrological historical applications -
should be used only in reference to the original system of Sabian symbols)
QUOTE


'….On some unrecorded date in 1925,
the Sabian symbols were brought into manifestation
in the span of a day
in Balboa Park, San Diego, California
through the combined efforts of Marc Edmund Jones and Elsie Wheeler.


The story began in 1923 when Marc met Elsie Wheeler.
As Marc later described the occasion, he sponsored Elsie because he admired her spunk......'


MARC EDMUND JONES



QUOTE


'…..Elsie had a brilliant and imaginative mind but she was seriously crippled with arthritis
and confined to a wheelchair. "She couldn't turn her head and could barely hold her hands."
At that time Elsie was scared of anything psychic,
but within a year she had become one of Marc's students
joined a spiritualist church and was making a good living as a medium.
She was by her handicap, however, very limited in general world experience,
and that limitation would later determine her role in bringing through the Sabian symbols,
a set of 360 separate and unique images.....'

ORIGEN AND HISTORY OF THE SABIAN SYMBOLS
http://sabian.org/sabian_symbols.php
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Unread 07-26-2014, 01:07 AM
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Re: This needs to be a sticky!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
QUOTE


'….On some unrecorded date in 1925,
the Sabian symbols were brought into manifestation
in the span of a day
in Balboa Park, San Diego, California
through the combined efforts of Marc Edmund Jones and Elsie Wheeler.


The story began in 1923 when Marc met Elsie Wheeler.
As Marc later described the occasion, he sponsored Elsie because he admired her spunk......'


MARC EDMUND JONES



QUOTE


'…..Elsie had a brilliant and imaginative mind but she was seriously crippled with arthritis
and confined to a wheelchair. "She couldn't turn her head and could barely hold her hands."
At that time Elsie was scared of anything psychic,
but within a year she had become one of Marc's students
joined a spiritualist church and was making a good living as a medium.
She was by her handicap, however, very limited in general world experience,
and that limitation would later determine her role in bringing through the Sabian symbols,
a set of 360 separate and unique images.....'

ORIGEN AND HISTORY OF THE SABIAN SYMBOLS
http://sabian.org/sabian_symbols.php
They weren't brought into manifestation, they already were manifest and have been since the beginning of all creation.

Time and space weren't brought into manifestation when Einstein wrote 'E = MCsquared" for the very first time, he merely became aware of the relativity of the two and stated as such.

If I wrote to you a description of how the sunset did appear to me last night here at my residence, I haven't manifested a sunset, I'm just giving you a description as seen from my point of observation.

Also, Marc Edmond Jones changed a number of the symbols, from what Elsie described she saw, decidedly so as to fit the process of unfoldment that He had assumed they would, prior to the day Elsie gave her effort. Dane Rudhyar caught on to this after studying the set Marc Jones had given him in 1931, which was the set Marc had formulated, for a mimeographed course in "Symbolical Astrology" for the members of his "Sabian Assembly" that he founded.
Dane wrote about how he grew to understand them more and more, realizing that the 360 was a symbolized cycle of any experience, not just astrology, but also became dissatisfied with a number of the formulations and interpretations that Marc had written and apparently became suspicious that they had been tampered with. Dane whom was residing in Los Angeles at the time having found out that Elsie was living in San Diego traveled there and met up with Elsie and asked her if she could remember what her descriptions were for those He suspected Marc had changed. Elsie told Dane she could do better than "just remember", She had all the 360 cards, that were used that day, with the descriptions she gave Marc written on the cards at the very time she reported what she "saw" for each degree.
Dane began writing on the symbols as Elsie actually saw them and as had been written on each of those cards along with his interpretation and summations for an series of installments on an article He titled "The Wheel of Significance" for the magazine, "American Astrology" from October 1944 to December 1945 at the rate of three or four symbols a year, apace that if He had continued would've taken Him from 90 to 120 years to complete.
Why did He stop? Well, consider that Marc finally published a book on the 360 Sabian Symbols in 1953 using the original brief descriptions Elsie had given him and which were written on those cards. Dane Rudhyar published his book twenty years later, in 1973.

Dane was a composer of musical compositions and was also an artist, a painter. His compositions were of a most avant-garde style of polytonal construct and his painting might best be described as somewhere between "Cubist and Abstract Impressionism". He was born in France as Daniel Chenneviere, He studied at the Sorbonne, University of Paris (graduating at the age of 16), and at the Paris Conservatoire. He came to America from France in 1916 New York City, where his orchestral arrangements and original compositions were performed on April 4, 1917 at a performance of "Métachorie" by the New York Metropolitan Opera. This was one of the first polytonal pieces of music performed in the United States. He also met Sasaki Roshi, one of the early Japanese Zen teachers in America, who led him in the study of Oriental philosophy and occultism and in the 1920's took an interest in Hindu/Vedic philosophy and theosophy. He was commissioned by the Theosophical Society 's branch in Los Angeles to write a compostion for their use in a production of theirs in 1920 and became associated with a number of the members of that society at the time and married, Marla Contento, the secretary to independent Theosophist Will Levington Comfort. Comfort introduced Rudhyar to Marc Edmund Jones. While Dane was studying and learning Astrology in the 1930's he was also studying the writings and philosophy of Carl Jung, and during this time, wrote his book, his first on the subject of astrology, titled "The Astrology of Personality, which, by the way, is the only book on the subject of astrology that was chosen by the New York Times for it's list of the 100 greatest books of the 20th century that was issued in 1999 or 2000 [or it may have been the Times of London, I can't quite recall] Theosophist Alice A. Bailey {she coined the term "New Age"}, encouraged the development of his thought and published his book on her press, Lucis Publishing. His initial writings were regular articles in Paul Clancy's magazine,"American Astrology" and Grant Lewi's, "Horoscope Magazine". He also studied and was quite taken with the writings of Nietzsche as a teenager and also did cite Jan Smut as an influence on his thought.


Dane Rudhyar

In my opinion, Elsie Wheeler was the means of communication that gave all of mankind a transmission of knowledge from the Cosmos/Creator, much like a telegraph of old times and Marc Edmond Jones was merely the clerk, like those that worked in a telegraph office, that jotted down the message and was also the Delivery Boy that delivered that message for the one whom it was really intended, Dane Rudhyar.

In my studied opinion, Dane forced Marc Edmond Jones to "fess up" and admit publicly that he had changed the symbols for his own personal agenda, by writing about the symbols in 1944-5, as there was no way Dane would've covered them all at the pace they were being published. Marc Edmond Jones not only gave Dane permission to publish his own book on the symbols but his permission to also alter any of them as to however Dane thought to be more appropriate for better comprehension by the public.

Some might view the events as a means of something as like that of "Blackmail" on Dane's part. If you consider the fact that Dane's book on the Sabian Symbols was published 20 years after Marc's book you might see that Dane took great care and deliberation for the work and as to how valuable and sacrosanct the knowledge he recognized they reveal and thus treated them with the utmost respect and took the role fated to him as being the one to interpret them and present them to the world as a most solemn duty.

He was born to do it...
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Unread 02-26-2017, 10:38 PM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

Greetings.
I am adding to this sticky my reply to another forum member who has been a bit insistent on promoting the idea, or belief, that the Sabian Symbols move with the Sidereal Zodiac.
Copied and pasted below it begins as: ...

Let me just state it simply again... The Sabian Symbols don't move with the Signs as they are not associated with the Signs of the Zodiac and they do not move with the sidereal procession of the stars.

Read the first chapter of Dane Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols "An Astrological Mandala The Cycle of Transformation and It's 360 Symbolic Phases". Part One of the book is titled "The Interpretation of Life Cycles As A Closed Series Of Archetypal Phases" and chapter one is titled "Symbols and the Cyclic Character of Human Experience." In that part of the book, you'll find that Dane explains that there are many cycles in nature but every cycle has structural principles.

The 360 Sabian Symbols represent a cyclic process that can be applied to many other cycles for a greater sense of meaning to be found in any particular cycle. The Sabians are not limited to Astrology as astrology is just one of many cycles to be found in the universe. In the aforementioned book according to Rudhyar, the twelve-fold Zodiac "deals essentially with varying modalities of solar energy, as the waves of this energy strike the earth. It deals with life. The series of 360 degrees deals with meaning."
The twelve signs of the Zodiac represent (ibid.) "twelve basic modes of 'energy', or archetypal qualities of being, which essentially colour any functional activity (e.g. a planet) operating in their fields" Said "fields" are spatial. The twelve Houses of an astrological horoscope are oriented to archetypal classifications of types of experiences that are necessary for the spiritual development of a mature individual person. As to the Zodiac and its twelve basic modes of energy along with the twelve basic classifications of experiences the Houses' embody they are active and effective each in a particular twelfth division of space that is bound to that sidereal movement.

The Sabian cycles' structure is found to be a pattern that is derived from the relationship of the day to the year. It is a cycle of time and it begins with the first day of spring and the Sabian Symbols are a reflection of the cycle of seasons (but they are not limited to that one particular cycle. As I already stated they can be found to be represented in [or representative of] any cycle of transformation.)

Those modes of energies of the Zodiac are, by most astrologers estimation, energies that emanate from the stars and I figure that they most likely are seeing as how they are tied to the procession of the sidereal. But the question unanswered is, what is governing the forces that apply the meaning of the Sabian Symbols?*

My theory is that they are governed by the Angelic. There are seventy-two Angels of the Quinaries according to some esoteric and occult sources and my friend, spiritual confidante, and acclaimed clairvoyant, Clarisse Conner, (whom has proven to me the validity of her talent [or "gift"] on so many occasions that I have lost count but have yet to see it fail once) has, in a number of readings I have had with her concerning questions pertaining to the workings of astrology, has indicated that there is an Angel governing every five degrees of the Zodiac, which amounts to 72 in all.

* What I intended to say, but didn't do a very good job of it, is that I have seen enough evidence to agree with those astrologers that believe that the qualitative energies produced by the 12 Signs of the Zodiac are indeed emanating from the stars and that I also have seen enough evidence to agree with the siderealists in that those Signs travel with the "precession of the equinoxes"... i.e. the sidereal precession.
As like Hesiod surely discovered and then demonstrated when He gave his guide, an almanac of agriculture, to the Greeks, you first sense, then identify, and then demonstrate to all that there is a structure and also rhythmic pattern to the structure. That was the other thing Rudhyar mentioned, that I didn't bring up, is that He wrote that besides structure and form, like any language, like any poem, the Sabian Symbols cycle is one of structure and form but also rhythm. He wrote about how the Sabians' cycle is one of a type that is like the cycle of night and day, rather than one to be thought of as that of a yearly orbit.
Night and Day, Yin and Yang, Light and Darkness, etc. I think the better description/explanation is to think of it as like the phases of the Moon. It begins with the New Moon, that very moment that it moves from an exact conjunction with the Sun allowing the first light of consciousness to manifest to the end of the cycle when it goes completely dark for an instant and the Quarter Moons, and the Half Moon, and all the divisions of the Moon that occur in that Lunar Month are where they are because that's where they occur and they do not move with the stars ...or certainly not at their behest. To divide up the lunar cycle in a month into 360 phases each phase will always have the same Sabian Symbol as to what it embodies and is.
The same applies to our yearly orbit about the Sun for the structure and rhythm of the cycle of the Sabian Symbols.


(The following is not a part of the original post. ptv)
Summary.
The procession through the Zodiac pertains to a cycle through space and the Zodiac is a partitioning of that entire area of space. Keep in mind that the Ascendant goes through all twelve signs in a twenty-four hour period but doesn't spend an equal amount of time in any two or more Signs that it passes through.

The Sabians Symbols is a cycle of precise timing (not precise time, but rather "timing") whereas the Zodiac is a cycle of precise space. The Tropical Zodiacs' only relation to the Sabian Symbols is one of orientation, as in 'where to find them'. The Tropical Zodiac and the Sidereal Zodiac perfectly align but once in a Great Yuga, aka the Great Age ...which I, personally, believe to be 26,640 years... but the Sabian Symbols are to be considered always perfectly aligned with the Tropical Zodiac. As that is how it all began with the Tropical, the Sidereal Zodiac, and the Sabian Symbols all perfectly aligned* ...and then the luminaries, the planets, and all the stars got their marching orders from the Creator.


*(and according to some astrophysicists, to which I concur, all the planets and the moons perfectly aligned with one another from the Sun... of which I am quite certain was in the first degree of Aries)
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  #22  
Unread 06-07-2017, 01:06 AM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

I read the article on which sabian degree symbols are bad or malefic, my Mars is in one ('9 Virgo-associated with death) and Neptune is in another (22' Sag-22' in any sign is "cursed"). My Chiron placement is 10' Taurus, almost to 11' which discusses a woman (red cross nurse) or (sprinkling her flowers).

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/For...ML/013910.html
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 07-08-2017, 12:27 PM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
I read the article on which sabian degree symbols are bad or malefic, my Mars is in one ('9 Virgo-associated with death) and Neptune is in another (22' Sag-22' in any sign is "cursed"). My Chiron placement is 10' Taurus, almost to 11' which discusses a woman (red cross nurse) or (sprinkling her flowers).

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/For...ML/013910.html
???
(ibid.)

"(VIRGO 9°): AN EXPRESSIONIST PAINTER AT WORK.
KEYNOTE: The urge to express one's individualized sense of value regardless of tradition.
At this stage the individual is seen reacting against cultural standards and stereotyped ways of interpreting his perceptions. This is a statement of uncompromising self-reliance, which may even imply a kind of defiance and a challenge to society. The mind is seeking to discover the character of the basic and true foundation of individual selfhood, the AUM tone (or logos) of individual being. In the process, however, what is expressed is usually the reflection of a deep catharsis with emotionally charged and often tragic overtones.
This fourth stage symbol brings to us the hint of a technique of transformation of the personality. What predominates is a sense of inner conflict and an over-selfconscious attempt at "being oneself." But there is a great difference between being an origin of development pregnant with futurity, and deliberately sought for ORIGINALITY."

Yes, that is downright horrific, isn't it?

God didn't put a thing in the Heavens with the specific intent of being malefic.
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Unread 07-08-2017, 09:21 PM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

Well, it finally became apparent to me that you possibly are not citing the degrees in the proper nomenclature as for your association of the Sabian Symbol of a Red Cross Nurse with Taurus 10° when it is almost in the 11th deg.
Please read the sticky associate with the subject.

Your Chiron is in the 11th degree and it is in the Sabian Symbol of a woman watering her garden.
(ibid.)
"(TAURUS 11°): A WOMAN WATERING FLOWERS IN HER GARDEN.
KEYNOTE: Development of the powers of the mind on which ego-consciousness is based.
The psycho-mental nature of a human being takes form out of the fulfillment and transcendence of biological functions and drives, much as the bud appears as the sap rises, and bursts forth into bloom. "As the roots, so the flowers" is an old axiom. The consciousness attaches itself to this wondrous efflorescence; it lavishes its attention upon it, its love — alas, usually a possessive kind of love ("This is my garden!"). Thus the ego develops. It may develop in a negative, resentful way if a belated frost destroys the buds.

This is the first stage of the ninth sequence of phases, a sequence that basically refers to the overall situation related to the development of the ego. The Keyword here is CULTIVATION."

Very appropriate in your case as to have Chiron, "The Wounded Healer", following the degree symbolized by a Red Cross Nurse... a universal symbol of a Healer... in a degree representing cultivation...

I would take it to mean that one of the reasons for your present existence is that you are here cultivating an ability to heal... both yourself and others.

In the process of Spiritual Transformation the Sabian Symbols are to be followed in reverse...thus the next symbol is in that case that of the Red Cross Nurse.... perhaps you are destined to be a great healer in this life or the next?
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Unread 07-08-2017, 09:25 PM
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Re: What Are Sabian Symbols

In as much my reply regarding that 9th degree of Virgo not having any symbolic malfeasance in fact should be addressed to the 10th degree of Virgo instead....?

(ibid.)

"(VIRGO 10°): TWO HEADS LOOKING OUT AND BEYOND THE SHADOWS.
KEYNOTE: The growth of true understanding, born out of the transcendence of duality even while immersed in the world of duality.
The mind operates inevitably in this world of conflicts, oppositions and duality. Yet when the opposites realize that they are complementary aspects of the one Reality which sustains and encompasses all dualistic modes of existence, they are able then to look away from internal conflicts and beyond the shadows these conflicts generate. They may come to realize the One Consciousness-Force, not in Itself (for this is, if not an impossible, at least an inexpressible experience), but as the Creative Unity, the New God, Ishvara, source of a new cycle of manifestation.
This is the last stage of the thirty-second sequence; it leads us to the new sequence, which deals with the characteristic features of the steadily progressing consciousness in the most critical part along its arduous Path toward transformation. In a deep philosophical sense we witness here the mind attempting to jump beyond the very shadow it inevitably casts upon all experiences; i.e. the SELF-TRANSCENDING ACTIVITY OF THE MIND."

You should all easily see that there is nothing malefic about that either.
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