8th house
- Thread starter Senecar
- Start date
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Rhys
Well-known member
Hi there
Your question is on the 8th house, correct? Is your approach Hellenistic or Renaissance? Just curious. You are using a quadrant house system, so I'm guessing renaissance.
Anyway, the thing about houses is that we put the entire universe into these twelve boxes, so each house can cover a lot of ground. The 8th house traditionally is interpreted as either death, other people's money, inheritance, among other things; it's also called the "lazy/idle" house in the sense that sometimes planets located there aren't doing much in the person's life.
So to figure out which it is, you have to "fish around". Start by asking whoever this chart belongs to questions around these subjects. Once you do that, you'll usually be able to figure out how the symbolism worked out in real life.
With Saturn in H2 in a degree-based opposition to H8 Venus, I would focus on the subject of finances as a starting point.
Best - Rhys
Your question is on the 8th house, correct? Is your approach Hellenistic or Renaissance? Just curious. You are using a quadrant house system, so I'm guessing renaissance.
Anyway, the thing about houses is that we put the entire universe into these twelve boxes, so each house can cover a lot of ground. The 8th house traditionally is interpreted as either death, other people's money, inheritance, among other things; it's also called the "lazy/idle" house in the sense that sometimes planets located there aren't doing much in the person's life.
So to figure out which it is, you have to "fish around". Start by asking whoever this chart belongs to questions around these subjects. Once you do that, you'll usually be able to figure out how the symbolism worked out in real life.
With Saturn in H2 in a degree-based opposition to H8 Venus, I would focus on the subject of finances as a starting point.
Best - Rhys
Senecar
Well-known member
Could you elaborate more on that please? Thanks.
Despite it seeming universally bad, even amongst the Indian tradition, there is evidence that the 8th place was viewed as positive and benefic in the early Hellenistic tradition by Nechepso and Hermes.
The summary of Thrasyllus ascribes significations of the twelve places according to Hermes Trismegistus where the 8th is life (βίος) and livelihood.
Death is assigned to the seventh place instead. A contradictory scheme is ascribed to Asclepius in the same source and in Valens where death is assigned to the 8th instead. It is also called ''Idle'' as mentioned, but the 9th and 3rd are viewed as worse in the operative scheme of Nechepso, as apheta is considered viable in the 8th but never in the 3rd and 9th. Similarly, in the triplicity rulers technique examples in Valens and Dorotheus, the 3rd and 9th are worse than the 2nd and 8th.
An important source in my opinion for the popularization of the 8th being bad in the west is Ptolemy, who gives a natural explanations via the moist exhalations of the earth (most ancient scientists believed that the ''space ocean/waters'' are moistened by the earth, and that water comes from space) causing the stars to appear faint and worse in the 12th and 8th. He considered a Predominator in the 9th contrary to the ''Nechepso'' scheme of angular, operative and inoperative I mentioned earlier, that is mentioned and used in Valens, Porphyry, Antiochus and others.
As you see, one source assigns life and livelihood to it, a second source assigns death and idleness to it. I personally do not use the latter generally, but I would give you my advice for the sake of the devil's advocate.
In the same way you decide whether Mars signifies ''courage'' (benefic influence) or ''terror and fears'' (malefic influence), or that Saturn signifies ''great ranks'' (benefic influence) or ''poverty'' (malefic influence).
Is the ruler made better by being angular, succedent or declining, is it rising or setting? Is it aspected by Jupiter or by Saturn? Is the ruler predominating the topic of wealth or of life? Is the ruler Mercury or in the signs of Mercury*? Every star and ruler can signify the opposite of its significations when poorly placed, but generally the malefics and the ruler of the 8th would rarely give good compared to evil, and the benefics and the ruler of the 10th would rarely give evil compared to good.
*You always make predictions according to the combined natural significations of the stars and the signs - royal, servile, incomplete, cold and so on added to the natural significations of the stars (like Mercury signifying money, and Saturn signifying land and the paternal inheritance). Not everyone gets and inheritance, but everyone is going to die at some point.
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Rhys
Well-known member
The reason for the negative connotations for H6, H8 and H12, traditionally and practically speaking, have to do with them not being able to "see" by Ptolemaic aspect the house of the hour marker, or the ascendent. So planets placed there, especially in H8 and 12, are considered debilitated and in need of remediation.
In election charts, we avoid H8 and H12 like a plague, but in a natal chart, the native has their whole life to integrate the energies. So for example if I had Venus there (in H8), or Jupiter, I would do remedial work on it in order to heal it and turn it into a strength.
Other people's finances or resources? Death? Or a modern meaning like your significant other's emotions? Which is it? Only way to find out is ask, and use the established 8th house symbolism and correspondences as guidelines to help you know which kind of questions to pose.
It is very important that the person whose chart this is establish concretely and in very real terms EXACTLY how each of those planets is playing out in their life so that they can begin the work of doing any necessary healing.
In election charts, we avoid H8 and H12 like a plague, but in a natal chart, the native has their whole life to integrate the energies. So for example if I had Venus there (in H8), or Jupiter, I would do remedial work on it in order to heal it and turn it into a strength.
Other people's finances or resources? Death? Or a modern meaning like your significant other's emotions? Which is it? Only way to find out is ask, and use the established 8th house symbolism and correspondences as guidelines to help you know which kind of questions to pose.
It is very important that the person whose chart this is establish concretely and in very real terms EXACTLY how each of those planets is playing out in their life so that they can begin the work of doing any necessary healing.