Bad Saturn- extremely negative

I

ILLUMINATUM

Member
Virgo Saturn:
The only aspects I have are Ascendant Squares Saturn 4th house
Mars 9H Aquarius Inconjunction Saturn 4H
Saturn squares Neptune 7H

I am a Gemini rising with Moon in the 1st house.

Please help? I am new in the forum!

Thank you!
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Welcome-- can you post your chart?

And maybe retitle your thread, "Good Saturn-- extremely positive"??

My son has Saturn in Virgo, and his life has turned out pretty well.

The key with any planetary placement is to see how you can use it constructively.
 
F

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Hi,
If you look at the chart as a whole, you will see that there is an (over)abundance of energy in AIR in the chart. Air is the temperament that deals with abstract thought and mentality, which is something not possible to physically touch and see to aid in making judgements. It's can be suggestive of someone 'who lives in their head'; i.e. what and how one thinks and relates to the situations of their physical world may not necessarily be the same as how situations actually are.

Saturn is the planet of physical manifestation, and Virgo is the sign that deals with realisation of situations through proof of physical evidence obtained.

For someone whose mind may tend to 'be in the clouds', Saturn is in a very GOOD position to keep them grounded.
A sort of look before instead of after you leap attitude can save from any bumpy ride. :smile:
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Saturn in the horoscope can show where and how we feel limited, disappointed, and inadequate. In your 4th house, Saturn may point to a difficult childhood, where you didn't feel you received enough love.

But Saturn is an important plant to befriend. He teaches us patience, hard work, and getting by on very little. These are important skills to have as we move through life.

Mercury rules thinking and communication, and your Mercury and Saturn are in a condition called mutual reception. This is like two good friends who help each other. A disempowering interpretation of Mercury- Saturn would be "negative thinking." A positive interpretation would be "careful" or "precise thinking," which is another usweful skill to have.

The blue line s in your horoscope show favourable aspects which should work well for you. In particularly, your Mercury-Neptune sextile should give you a good imagination which you can use creatively.
 
I

ILLUMINATUM

Member
Thank you, Waybread.

Can you please tell me specifics in regards to what saturn does in my chart? The square ascendant, neptune, and inonjunction to mars?

Does the houses these planets are in weakens how I deal with my life?

Thank you!
 
T

thelivingsky

Well-known member
Your Saturn/Neptune square is wide with a 7 degree orb. Many astrologers limit orbs to 5 degrees unless the Sun or Moon are involved. So I would say, if there is an influence, it would be fairly mild. Saturn and Neptune in square would signify a conflict between idealism (Neptune) and pragmatism (Saturn) but the conflict could eventually be resolved by melding the two into a pragmatic sort of idealism. Saturn is well placed in Virgo since the practical qualities of Saturn would find easy expression in an earthy realistic sign like Virgo.

I don't know what to say about the Saturn inconjunct to Mars. Again inconjuncts are often seen as a "minor" aspect and not as strong as a square, conjunction, trine or opposition. But I have not studied them well enough to have a firm opinion. But generally difficult Mars-Saturn aspects imply difficult relationships with men and authority figures including the father, and a tendency to have some difficulty with assertiveness.

Here is an excerpt from the late Isabel Hickey about the Saturn/Neptune square. If any of this resonates with you let us know: "Emotional fears that are hard to eradicate for they are so deeply embedded in the unconscious levels. Feelings of loneliness and isolation can be strong partly due to the persons' inability to relate to people in the world. Not enough understanding or empathy projected toward others."

I suspect that having Saturn in H4 could also contribute to feelings of isolation and in Virgo a very serious outlook. The predominance of Gemini and Aquarius would add to the analytical and critical as does the Saturn in Virgo. So the downside here could be an overly-critical nature and with such a packed H9 a emphasis on the intellectual/philosophical/abstract thought over the emotional and perhaps a need to consciously cultivate more emotional insight and intelligence.

Barb at thelivingsky.wordpress.com
 
I

ILLUMINATUM

Member
thelivingsky said:
Your Saturn/Neptune square is wide with a 7 degree orb. Many astrologers limit orbs to 5 degrees unless the Sun or Moon are involved. So I would say, if there is an influence, it would be fairly mild. Saturn and Neptune in square would signify a conflict between idealism (Neptune) and pragmatism (Saturn) but the conflict could eventually be resolved by melding the two into a pragmatic sort of idealism. Saturn is well placed in Virgo since the practical qualities of Saturn would find easy expression in an earthy realistic sign like Virgo.

I don't know what to say about the Saturn inconjunct to Mars. Again inconjuncts are often seen as a "minor" aspect and not as strong as a square, conjunction, trine or opposition. But I have not studied them well enough to have a firm opinion. But generally difficult Mars-Saturn aspects imply difficult relationships with men and authority figures including the father, and a tendency to have some difficulty with assertiveness.

Here is an excerpt from the late Isabel Hickey about the Saturn/Neptune square. If any of this resonates with you let us know: "Emotional fears that are hard to eradicate for they are so deeply embedded in the unconscious levels. Feelings of loneliness and isolation can be strong partly due to the persons' inability to relate to people in the world. Not enough understanding or empathy projected toward others."

I suspect that having Saturn in H4 could also contribute to feelings of isolation and in Virgo a very serious outlook. The predominance of Gemini and Aquarius would add to the analytical and critical as does the Saturn in Virgo. So the downside here could be an overly-critical nature and with such a packed H9 a emphasis on the intellectual/philosophical/abstract thought over the emotional and perhaps a need to consciously cultivate more emotional insight and intelligence.

Barb at thelivingsky.wordpress.com
Click to expand...

Thank you! The way I see it, Saturn/Neptune clashing with my ideals versus the "real world" philosophy.

Again, truth and reality is different. The way I see it, for example, the oligarchy and the shadow power behind the smoke and mirror democracy we call the government, and the branding of lifestyle by the elite----these people creates "reality", I call it narrative, for the rest of us.

This condition will echo through the future generations. We are being conditioned constantly as to what we ought to perceive as truth. The idea of how society is heading towards a cultural prison called the New World Order is a bit annoying to me.

Anyhow, do you have anymore take on how I can make full use of my Saturn?

Thanks!
 
I

ILLUMINATUM

Member
aquarius7000 said:
Hi

How is your relationship with your father? Also, do you live overseas or away from where you actually come from?
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Hello! My relationship with my father growing up was bleak. However, he is a good man, just does not know how to properly raise children. How he handled paternal responsibilities was inadequate to say the least.

I live away from my birthplace.

Any take on my chart? Please feel free to expand. It does not necessarily be all about Saturn.

Strengths or weaknesses ??
 
aquarius7000

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Sorry, but I need to understand certain placements because some charts do not give the real pic right away to me. Also, thru your input, I can learn. When you say away from your birthplace, does it simply mean, in another city, or actually in a different country? 4th house ruler is in the 9th house.

Saturn in the 4th house - there was some inadequacy or disappointments you face on the family/home front.

Saturn in your case has more to do with keeping you and your relationships in check.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Illuminatum, I am not sure why you come across as nervous about your chart. It actually has more favourable placements than not. (Blue lines) Right now you've got transiting Neptune messing with your Saturn, so maybe that explains it. Most charts appear to be more challenging than yours.

As thelivingsky pointed out, your Saturn-Neptune square is wide, meaning you may feel it, but it's not screaming in your face to D0 Something.

I described Saturn in my previous post. A robust Saturn is a hard-headed realist, but a weakened Saturn veers into negativity, imagining that things are worse than they really are. Neptune deals with beautiful illusion and bitter disillusionment, missing the reality in between. But a robust Neptune can be the visionary, the creative artist, or even the person who loves the sea. But if we combine Neptune and Saturn via the square, this can give someone with a pessimistic outlook on life. Possibly you live with vague (Neptune) imaginary (Neptune) fears (Saturn.)

With Saturn in the 4th house, do you feel you had a deprived childhood-- if not financially, then emotionally? With Neptune in the 7th, do you doubt your ability to form happy, lasting relationships?

With Saturn square ascendant, you may feel there is something wrong with your body or how your personality comes across to other people. But a more empowering interpretation would be that you learn how to discipline (Saturn) your body and attitudes (AC,) perhaps through a healthy diet, exercise, and affirmations.

Mars indicates your basic assertiveness and natural aggression. It also rules people like soldiers and athletes. With the old sea god Neptune dissolving your sense of assertiveness, you may feel like a low-energy person, or someone who can start a project but then lose enthusiasm for it. Even if you don't know how to swim now, a good use of this Mars-Neptune combination would be to take up an aquatic sport like swimming, an aquatic exercise class, or some kind of boating. I have Mars opposite Neptune, and found swimming laps and getting out in our canoe during the summer to be really beneficial.

One book I highly recommend if you are interested in or concerned about aspects is Robert Hand, Planets in Youth. Good for people of any age! It is a "cookbook" of all the different aspect combinations. You will find many strengths in your horoscope and life, as well.
 
I

ILLUMINATUM

Member
thelivingsky said:
Feelings of loneliness and isolation can be strong partly due to the persons' inability to relate to people in the world. Not enough understanding or empathy projected toward others."

So the downside here could be an overly-critical nature and with such a packed H9 a emphasis on the intellectual/philosophical/abstract thought over the emotional and perhaps a need to consciously cultivate more emotional insight and intelligence.

Barb at thelivingsky.wordpress.com
Click to expand...

Sky, I find it hard to find my ideal partner whom I can genuinely enjoy with in all aspects of my life. As for my social affairs, I just cruise in around the social etiquette and the hypocrisy- I only have a handful of female confidants, but I am comfortable with some of my male friends. I am a woman.

My problem with Saturn square ascendant, I think, is my being critical. I have moon in the first house. I have no trouble showing exactly how I feel. However my greatest help, I suppose, I suppose is from my Mercury trine Pluto - Mercury sextile Neptune: I have good deductive ability.

My previous love interest called me aloof.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
ILLUMINATUM said:
Thank you! The way I see it, Saturn/Neptune clashing with my ideals versus the "real world" philosophy.

Again, truth and reality is different. The way I see it, for example, the oligarchy and the shadow power behind the smoke and mirror democracy we call the government, and the branding of lifestyle by the elite----these people creates "reality", I call it narrative, for the rest of us.

This condition will echo through the future generations. We are being conditioned constantly as to what we ought to perceive as truth. The idea of how society is heading towards a cultural prison called the New World Order is a bit annoying to me.

Anyhow, do you have anymore take on how I can make full use of my Saturn?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I realize that you didn't direct this post to me, but can we pause here for a minute? Conspiracy theories like the New World Order are doing you no good. We have enough actual problems in the world to over-fill our worry baskets. But if you read what I wrote about Saturn-Neptune, this says a lot.

To quote Robert Hand, Planets in Youth on Saturn square Neptune, people with this aspect are likely to have a conflict between their ideals and their perception of reality, and experience free-floating anxieties. This doesn't mean the fears are objectively real, just that people are likely to experience them.

I might go further on Neptune. Your Neptune is at the tip of a "kite" formation comprises of linked trines, sextiles, and an opposition. It is one busy planet in your chart. This planet does not deal with reality. It is in your 7th house, which deals with both long-term relationships such as marriage, but also open enemies. With Neptune, you can perceive enemies (7th house) who actually do not exist (Neptune,) at least not as you perceive them.

As Friesiangal pointed out, you have a lot of the air element in your chart. (Not to worry, I have half my planets in air signs.) What this means is that we "air heads" spend a lot of time in the world of ideas. Saturn in Virgo can actually be very useful in very realistically and pragmatically helping to sort out what is real and what is not.

Lord knows, national governments are full of all kinds of observable corruption, vested interests, power brokers, monied influence and what Karl Marx called the ruling class. Bernie Sanders was onto them. We can see all of this clearly without taking further leaps of faith into the murky conspiracy theory, alt-news world of some New World Order that simply isn't out there.

Saturn in Virgo, at heart, is a real critical thinker.
 
I

ILLUMINATUM

Member
waybread said:
Illuminatum, I am not sure why you come across as nervous about your chart. It actually has more favourable placements than not. (Blue lines) Right now you've got transiting Neptune messing with your Saturn, so maybe that explains it. Most charts appear to be more challenging than yours.

As thelivingsky pointed out, your Saturn-Neptune square is wide, meaning you may feel it, but it's not screaming in your face to D0 Something.

I described Saturn in my previous post. A robust Saturn is a hard-headed realist, but a weakened Saturn veers into negativity, imagining that things are worse than they really are. Neptune deals with beautiful illusion and bitter disillusionment, missing the reality in between. But a robust Neptune can be the visionary, the creative artist, or even the person who loves the sea. But if we combine Neptune and Saturn via the square, this can give someone with a pessimistic outlook on life. Possibly you live with vague (Neptune) imaginary (Neptune) fears (Saturn.)

With Saturn in the 4th house, do you feel you had a deprived childhood-- if not financially, then emotionally? With Neptune in the 7th, do you doubt your ability to form happy, lasting relationships?

With Saturn square ascendant, you may feel there is something wrong with your body or how your personality comes across to other people. But a more empowering interpretation would be that you learn how to discipline (Saturn) your body and attitudes (AC,) perhaps through a healthy diet, exercise, and affirmations.

Mars indicates your basic assertiveness and natural aggression. It also rules people like soldiers and athletes. With the old sea god Neptune dissolving your sense of assertiveness, you may feel like a low-energy person, or someone who can start a project but then lose enthusiasm for it. Even if you don't know how to swim now, a good use of this Mars-Neptune combination would be to take up an aquatic sport like swimming, an aquatic exercise class, or some kind of boating. I have Mars opposite Neptune, and found swimming laps and getting out in our canoe during the summer to be really beneficial.

One book I highly recommend if you are interested in or concerned about aspects is Robert Hand, Planets in Youth. Good for people of any age! It is a "cookbook" of all the different aspect combinations. You will find many strengths in your horoscope and life, as well.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I am trying to troubleshoot where my weakness is coming from and I always think Ascendant squares Saturn was the culprit. However, it could be my moon in the first house opposite the 7th house venus and neptune?

Thank you for your input and I will try to hunt down that book!
 
I

ILLUMINATUM

Member
waybread said:
I realize that you didn't direct this post to me, but can we pause here for a minute? Conspiracy theories like the New World Order are doing you no good. We have enough actual problems in the world to over-fill our worry baskets. But if you read what I wrote about Saturn-Neptune, this says a lot.

To quote Robert Hand, Planets in Youth on Saturn square Neptune, people with this aspect are likely to have a conflict between their ideals and their perception of reality, and experience free-floating anxieties. This doesn't mean the fears are objectively real, just that people are likely to experience them.

I might go further on Neptune. Your Neptune is at the tip of a "kite" formation comprises of linked trines, sextiles, and an opposition. It is one busy planet in your chart. This planet does not deal with reality. It is in your 7th house, which deals with both long-term relationships such as marriage, but also open enemies. With Neptune, you can perceive enemies (7th house) who actually do not exist (Neptune,) at least not as you perceive them.

As Friesiangal pointed out, you have a lot of the air element in your chart. (Not to worry, I have half my planets in air signs.) What this means is that we "air heads" spend a lot of time in the world of ideas. Saturn in Virgo can actually be very useful in very realistically and pragmatically helping to sort out what is real and what is not.

Lord knows, national governments are full of all kinds of observable corruption, vested interests, power brokers, monied influence and what Karl Marx called the ruling class. Bernie Sanders was onto them. We can see all of this clearly without taking further leaps of faith into the murky conspiracy theory, alt-news world of some New World Order that simply isn't out there.

Saturn in Virgo, at heart, is a real critical thinker.
Click to expand...

Freemasons and their underdogs are quite a bane in mine and family's life for quite sometime now.

Speaking of open enemies, does that mean my Taurus 12th house ruler in 7th house of my open enemies -- how can you please interpret it?

Thank you so much Way!!!
 
T

thelivingsky

Well-known member
The grand trine/kite is the strongest feature of this chart. Grand trines often suggest a kind of spiritual inertia where the person wants things to come easily because they often do or have in the past. But the Neptune forms the kite and some say this is a very favorable aspect as it helps the grand trine.I would read up on "kites" - I really haven't had enough personal experience with them to tell you how yours would manifest. They are quite rare but very intriguing. Perhaps you can educate me about this?

What I have seen is that when a planet falls in the middle of a trine, as your Neptune does, it denotes a significant talent that is a function of all those planets that sextile each other and form the trine. In your case the Aquarius planets that trine the Pluto in Libra and Neptune in Sagittarius in the center. This suggests that you have some significant intellectual gifts . The houses and signs give clues to where and how these gifts will develop. Neppy in Sag= philisophical, Merc. Mars. Sun in Aqu in H9 philisophical again, but with a scientific approach too - perhaps political philosophy. I think you could be an excellent teacher especially in a higher education domain.The Merc Pluto trine creates a desire to delve deeply into topics and is a good aspect for research, detective work and searching for deep truths/conspiracies (which often do exist.)

Mars is very strong in Aquarius and the trine to Pluto makes it more so - very strong will and with the Sun there is Aquarius you probably look at the world with great concern and the irrationality of the world and the human condition probably makes you crazy. Some say that Mars in Aquarius people often take the law into their own hands. I can see that in you - have you ever done this?

Transits now might be challenging with Saturn opposing your Moon and closing in on your Neptune: depression, feeling isolated, difficulty with partnerships,

Some astrologers teach that when Saturn is low in the birth chart the individual will likely never have a real "career" but rather finds that he is fated to go from job to job and a real vocation never materializes due to circumstances. I have seen this to be true often, for myself too as I have Saturn in H3. Has this been the case for you? In some ways your chart is the chart of an eternal student always searching and probing.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Can you explain why you construe your personality and life as a series of problems? I'm sure there's a reasonable, factually based answer. Without knowing what you see as your problems, it's hard to locate an astrological explanation. I sometimes quip that we're astrologers, not mind-readers.

But honestly, in "my" choice centered astrology, each horoscope placement has the potential for empowering and disempowering interpretations. These will all be consistent with the core meanings of the planets, signs, houses, &c; but those core meanings give a lot of latitude within which we can pick and choose.

I don't view astrology in any rigorous fatalistic way.

Actually, the more I look at your chart, the more I see parallels with mine. I'm 68 years old and conclude that my life turned out OK, not withstanding the fact that every planet in my chart is involved in a square or an opposition.

I have moon opposite Venus, and haven't found it to be particularly troubling. I have sun, Mercury, Venus in Aquarius. You might find that square from Uranus to be difficult. It can express itself in one of two ways. (1) a lifelong identity quest. Just when you think you know who you are, Uranus upsets your apple cart. Events or people change quickly, leaving you to wonder if you really understood yourself so well. (2) a variant on this is the person who embodies Uranian disruption, challenges to authority, and rebellion.

But, my goodness! You've got those nice trines and sextiles all over the place. I'd be curious to learn how you manifest those.

The ruler of your 7th house, Jupiter, is kind of a wild child. It's retrograde and makes no major aspects to your other planets or angles. It is like a loner, who is thereby free to be unsocialized. In Leo, in your house of money and values, maybe this reinforces your Aquarian/Uranian mistrust of authority.
 
I

ILLUMINATUM

Member
thelivingsky said:
The grand trine/kite is the strongest feature of this chart. Grand trines often suggest a kind of spiritual inertia where the person wants things to come easily because they often do or have in the past. But the Neptune forms the kite and some say this is a very favorable aspect as it helps the grand trine.I would read up on "kites" - I really haven't had enough personal experience with them to tell you how yours would manifest. They are quite rare but very intriguing. Perhaps you can educate me about this?
Click to expand...

The problem I encounter with Neptune is that it is opposed to my moon in the first house. My motivation is inspired by my emotions and my ideals, and can be sustained only if I am passionate about a project or a goal or a cause. I find it easy to troubleshoot a problem and come up with multiple solutions using my creativity and some form of algorithm.

There are multiple instances that my dreams were prophetic. I would dream and it would come true. An example was that in my dream I had a diamond in my hand, the next day I found a diamond tennis bracelet: True story.

I always get myself into trouble (7th house) if I trust someone simply because I feel "in-tuned" with them and ignore some red flags. Self-deception does not last long and I do not have trouble burning bridges.

You can say I have an evolved sense of justice, but have never taken the law in my own hands. I do not believe in vengeance; such evil corrupts the soul.

In terms of career, I have taught English before--explored cooking professionally, for awhile---and I love to teach children, they are such a joy! I have been with my company for almost ten years now, however, I have that urge to change and explore my creativity.

I do not know anything about transit, but my boss is troublesome, and I am having trouble at work right now. It seems that my Union wants to settle for monies instead of fighting for my rights. You mentioned Saturn and moon transit?

My ideal career would be that I would become my own boss, in some sort of creative exploration and therapy using music with children. I am also wanting to write a book.

I am not rich, simply because money is not my primary motivation. It should be. It would bring such freedom of exploration and more room for creativity.

Anything else you can see in my chart?

When it comes to circumstances that prevented a career with my 4th Saturn natal, I do not have baggage from my past and I have never been married nor have children. It is more like a choice to remain a mediocre by society's standard. Maybe the problem is that I am not ambitious enough?
 
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