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  #1  
Unread 01-18-2009, 11:27 AM
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non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

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Personally, I think neither gender nor sexuality can be determined from a birthchart - but I welcome the day when society worldwide is tolerant enough to allow the possibility to be fully investigated without any bias.
Amen, brother.

AG


[Non-astrological posts from the threads:The Chart of a Gay man and Indicators of Homosexuality have been moved here.]


Last edited by aquarius7000; 02-07-2009 at 07:19 AM. Reason: To add comment regarding shifting of posts.
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Unread 01-19-2009, 09:31 PM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

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Originally Posted by rogue_red
I disagree with this statement in the sense that some men who have a close affinity with their father can idealise men in general and develope an attraction to men because of the closeness they experienced from their fathers so they seek to repeat this bond with sexual partners. Of course your statement is also true, just not exclusive.
Yes of course there are many other examples but I would have taken up so much time and pages, had I wrote out the many other examples running around in my head. My point was just to give ideas of the many scenarios. Humans have so many dynamics from culture to culture, country to country, Continent to continent and I could go on and on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rouge_red
Isnt that saying that some people are born heterosexual? Science has proven that there are biological indicators in homosexual people. Namely research has shown that part of the hypothalamus responsible for regulating body temp, blood pressure and sexual behaviour is larger and more densely packed in gay people.
People are born, that is it and then they are shaped, is what I am saying. Like a child who is taught to be racist, that child was not born that way. The natal chart is supposed to be our highest potential. Many of us are at our lowest. Highest just means total consciousess. This is just my opinion. As far as what you say about the hypothalamus, I don't agree with those studies because they are no different from how far we have come in Astrological studies when it comes to sexual orientation. I will look for the information if necessary but from the studies I saw conducted, they were not equal in male female or different races of people. Also, the test were conducted with the knowledge that the subject was a known homosexual, which to me makes the test already bias. Also, no heterosexual people were taken into consideration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rouge_red
There have also been studies done that show the prenatal fetus's central nervous system, which mediates behavior and physiological responses, can be heavily affected by the level of hormones present in the mothers blood resulting in changes to the biological sexual orientation of that fetus.
This is speculation. If doctors can tell a woman that a baby is going to be born mentally challenged, they should also be able to tell a woman who is having issues with the prenatal fetus's, central nervous system, that her child will be gay. Until they can do that, I am not going to believe all of the speculation. This speculation is no different from the speculation which states that if a woman does drugs while pregnant, more than likely her child will be physically, mentally and emotionally unstable. That specualtion was debunked after so many baby's were born healthy and as they progressed in age, they remained perfect in the areas of concern.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rouge_red
Astrology isnt a perfected science and to say that people arent born gay because astrology only shows tendancies or probable traits is to say that nobody is born genetically predisposed to anything when we know for a fact that it is. There is (to my knowlege) no absolute astrological evidence of a natives eye colour and yet its a biological certainty that two brown eyed parents will have only brown eyed children.*(see note)
I think you may be trying to use astrology to prove science which really cannot be done.
That is why I don't believe that people are born gay. I will say it again, People are not born gay, Straight, Bi or zoophiliac. We as humans make the choice for which sexual preferance we are going to enjoy and the reason behind our choices are many. Some of us are conscious of our choices, 3rd house and some of us are not conscious of how, and why we made our choices 12th house. What we are all striving for is the 9th house, the higher mind.


Science versus Astrology in terms of genetics is something that would take a world view Astrology to prove. Astrology is a practice that differs from culture to culture. If we go into those places where a small group of people study Astrology and they all come from the same background, they would more than likely be able to predict what a childs physical characteristics will be. Americans and Europeans are not the only ones versed in and practicing Astrology. In fact, Americans and Europeans are behind in the study.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rouge_red
*Note: When I say brown eyed i am referring to both parents with dominant Brown eyes genes (BB). Eyes can look brown but genetically may be a mixed dominant/recessive brown gene (Bb).
That is due to cultures mixing. Culture mixing interferes with the traditional predictable ancient readings. This is why Americans and Europeans are far behind in Astrology. Americans and Europeans are mixed up in the science of Astrology, literally mixed up They are to busy feeling as though they are ahead and everyone else is backward, nontechnological and primitive
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Unread 01-19-2009, 09:59 PM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

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Also, no heterosexual people were taken into consideration.
Really? What do you think the control group was? Heterosexuals.

For the record, I agree with you wholeheartedly rouge_red, I think you're doing a great job voicing and backing up your points here. It's difficult to do that when someone keeps refusing to acknowledge them, though. I don't have time to comment further, I've got to run, but keep up the good job. You're an inspiration to me as I'm trying to remain cool here.

Quote:
Culture mixing interferes with the traditional predictable ancient readings. This is why Americans and Europeans are far behind in Astrology.
I do have to comment on this though. You know "American and European" astrology is really from the middle-east, right?
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  #4  
Unread 01-19-2009, 10:08 PM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

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Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
Right. That's good. Let's keep it up. I just think it's backwards to want a study of it while pressing the same biased speculations.
I think you may be to young or lacking experience to get it. There is nothing biased about believing that people are not born with a sexual preferance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
Scorpio is also descriptive of deceit.
On the negative side yes, but then why you would choose to accuse this man of deceit and you don't even know him nor have you read his book is inidictative to prematurity

Quote:
You're very right. I have not read the book. However, I have read about the man. The very fact that he is a bible-toting Christian makes me very suspicious of his intents with his publishing this book. I don't think that's at all a difficult connection to make what with the statements he's made up to now. He's obviously against homosexuality, so writing a book about how he wasn't, was, and then wasn't again could be very effective as a tool. Don't you agree?
No I don't agree. If he were angry, he would have made up excuses and just stayed gay, he has changed from a forced lifestyle. He is proud of that accomplishment in his life and I don't take that from the man. You haven't read about this man, you have made your assumptions based on what I had initially told you about him. You can try now and go google all you want, but I know the deal


Quote:
Lacking proper objectivity? You're definitely right. But I think the author lacks proper objectivity as well.
Two wrongs don't make a right but in this case, you are the only wrong one. Under what premise is this authors objectivity put under scrutiny? Most of your school books, and where you get your popular knowledge from is bias based. This is why we must study for ouselves, with a critical and anylitical objective mind. As long as you keep looking at other peoples views based on what you understand about yourself(subjectivity) you will have problems. The way that you are behaving is no different from how the rich elites feel that it is okay to cut down the rain forest to put up malls for profit, because the people living in the forest need to be spiritually, religiously and technologically brought into the new way of life. Of course, as you said, what other people do does not affect you, and this is how the rich elites feel as well. The excuses they use for forcing forest people to convert is a method they use to jusitfy their greed. Hence, they (rich elite) remove forest people from their homes and put up those malls you and I will feverishly go and shop at.


Quote:
As far as animal sacrifice goes, there's different cultural and religious views around it and I really don't care what they do because it doesn't effect me. I don't see how you can compare animal sacrifice with the studies that such "pray away the gay" instances just don't happen. That's why I doubt this man and his book. He's angry because he was raped when he was a child and now he hates homosexuals. Right, okay, I can understand that. I don't see it so much as a serious Scorpionic transformative thing as I do a movement of classic Scropionic deceit and revenge.
You don't know the man. You also don't know the people who's Astrology books you study and when you don't agree with what they say, you don't accuse them of deceit, now do you?


Quote:
Also, I disagree with this idea that people's beliefs on homosexuality can neither be right or wrong because it's a belief. When statistical evidence tells me one thing, I'm going to have to say that there's a certain amount of fact (therefore non-belief) to it. So people can be wrong in their belief about homosexuality. Where there is fact, there is truth.
You say you don't agree that peoples beliefs on homosexuality can neither be right or wrong because it is a belief? Let me ask you this, if you woke up tomorrow and all the scientist and doctors are on the news recanting there past studies, saying that those studies were all wrong, homosexuality is not a born trait. What would you do then, continue to depend on scienteist to prove what is right and wrong? You can believe all you want that if a mack truck going one hundred miles an hour hits you, you will live and still be physically in perfect condition, but the facts are, you will more than likely die or become severely disfigured.
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  #5  
Unread 01-19-2009, 10:10 PM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

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Originally Posted by Astrologer4U
People are born, that is it and then they are shaped, is what I am saying. Like a child who is taught to be racist, that child was not born that way.

Im not saying im an expert but I have studied medicine, genetics and human biology and my answers arent my opinion but rather, science. If children are just taught to be what they are then where is the validity of astrology? Surely all children born of the same parents and into the same environment should be very similar in nature?

The natal chart is supposed to be our highest potential. Many of us are at our lowest. Highest just means total consciousess. This is just my opinion. As far as what you say about the hypothalamus, I don't agree with those studies because they are no different from how far we have come in Astrological studies when it comes to sexual orientation. I will look for the information if necessary but from the studies I saw conducted, they were not equal in male female or different races of people. Also, the test were conducted with the knowledge that the subject was a known homosexual, which to me makes the test already bias. Also, no heterosexual people were taken into consideration.

Actually the tests were done on sheep that refused to mate with female sheep preferring to mate males. And yes they were compared to non-gay sheep.
See this is the thing, animal mating is purely instinctive, no social pressures, no learned experiences and yet it is well documented that most species demonstrate homosexual behavior.

This is speculation. If doctors can tell a woman that a baby is going to be born mentally challenged, they should also be able to tell a woman who is having issues with the prenatal fetus's, central nervous system, that her child will be gay.
Ok, firstly doctors can tell if a child is mentally challenged in utero only if the abnormality is genetically or physically indicated and as yet the genetic marker for homosexuality hasnt been found.
Secondly i didnt say that the mother was having issues with the fetuses central nervous system and that indicated homosexuality. What i said is that if the mother has abberant hormonal flucuations during pregnancy that this can affect the parts of the brain that indicate sexual preferences. There have been numerous studies on the effects of stress during pregnancy on the developing fetus and the dangers of drugs and alcohol are well documented. Not one single baby has ever been born with fetal alcohol syndrome where the mother did not drink at all. Why are some babies born ok and others not? Because the babies metabolism and other biological factors determine whether the toxicity of alcohol is at a damaging level just as some people will get sunburned in five minutes in the sun and others wont burn for hours. Just because some babies arent affected doesnt disprove the effects of alcohol on the unborn child.

Until they can do that, I am not going to believe all of the speculation. This speculation is no different from the speculation which states that if a woman does drugs while pregnant, more than likely her child will be physically, mentally and emotionally unstable. That specualtion was debunked after so many baby's were born healthy and as they progressed in age, they remained perfect in the areas of concern.

After reading this statement im wondering why i am even debating this topic. I really enjoy a good debate that gets my mind going but comments like that a pure ignorance. Im not being rude or personally insulting but your arguements are just so unbelievably inaccurate.




That is why I don't believe that people are born gay. I will say it again, People are not born gay, Straight, Bi or zoophiliac. We as humans make the choice for which sexual preferance we are going to enjoy and the reason behind our choices are many. Some of us are conscious of our choices, 3rd house and some of us are not conscious of how, and why we made our choices 12th house. What we are all striving for is the 9th house, the higher mind.


Science versus Astrology in terms of genetics is something that would take a world view Astrology to prove. Astrology is a practice that differs from culture to culture. If we go into those places where a small group of people study Astrology and they all come from the same background, they would more than likely be able to predict what a childs physical characteristics will be. Americans and Europeans are not the only ones versed in and practicing Astrology. In fact, Americans and Europeans are behind in the study.



That is due to cultures mixing. Culture mixing interferes with the traditional predictable ancient readings. This is why Americans and Europeans are far behind in Astrology. Americans and Europeans are mixed up in the science of Astrology, literally mixed up They are to busy feeling as though they are ahead and everyone else is backward, nontechnological and primitive
Um ok i'll say this slowly...Two Brown eyed people have brown eyed kids. It doesnt matter if they are mixed race, pure descentants or cats, beavers or hamsters. The genetic rules (for eye colour) dont change because of cultural mixing:69:
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  #6  
Unread 01-19-2009, 10:13 PM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

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Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
I do have to comment on this though. You know "American and European" astrology is really from the middle-east, right?

Being critical anylytical and objective here. If there is a such things as a middle east, where is your middle south, middle north, and middle west
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Unread 01-19-2009, 10:19 PM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

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Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
For the record, I agree with you wholeheartedly rouge_red, I think you're doing a great job voicing and backing up your points here. It's difficult to do that when someone keeps refusing to acknowledge them, though. I don't have time to comment further, I've got to run, but keep up the good job. You're an inspiration to me as I'm trying to remain cool here.
Thanks Kai. Im opting out of this thread now. As you know i do enjoy a good stimulating astrological debate but when the responses become ludicris then I know its my time to bow out.:29:

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Unread 02-04-2009, 04:14 PM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

I think any sign is capable of homosexuality. Astrology just gives hint as to, if one is more likely to lean in that direction. Astrology coupled with experiences and circumstances is what determinds if one will be gay, straight, Bi or Zoophiliac. Everyone is female first, as far as genitalia is concerned.



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Last edited by wilsontc; 02-04-2009 at 04:48 PM. Reason: deleted overly sexual comment
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Unread 02-04-2009, 07:42 PM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

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Originally Posted by Astrologer4U
I think any sign is capable of homosexuality. Astrology just gives hint as to, if one is more likely to lean in that direction. Astrology coupled with experiences and circumstances is what determinds if one will be gay, straight, Bi or Zoophiliac. Everyone is female first, as far as genitalia is concerned.



Astrologer4U
I agree that every sign is capable of homosexuality but i do think astrology gives more than just a hint. Genitalia does does not determine sex or sexual preference. Genetics determine gender.

Rogue red.
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Unread 02-04-2009, 09:17 PM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

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Originally Posted by rogue_red
I agree that every sign is capable of homosexuality but i do think astrology gives more than just a hint. Genitalia does does not determine sex or sexual preference. Genetics determine gender.

Rogue red.

My point was, that we all, male and female have basically the same genitalia, we all have both sexes in us. If you are a woman, you have male genes inside of you. If you are a male, you have female genes inside of you. Therefore, everyone is capable of being Bi, homosexual or heterosexual depending on which energy they tap into, determinds which kind of sexual orientation they will be attracted to. Zoophiliac is another thing and people who desire to have sex with dead people Necrophiliacs, is a whole other thing as well. That's all I was tring to say... sorry you missed my point.



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Last edited by Astrologer4U; 02-04-2009 at 09:26 PM.
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Unread 02-04-2009, 11:27 PM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

I am a little confused A4U because you stated that

Quote:
I am one of those people who does not believe that people are born gay
then went on to say

Quote:
My point was, that we all, male and female have basically the same genitalia, we all have both sexes in us. If you are a woman, you have male genes inside of you. If you are a male, you have female genes inside of you. Therefore, everyone is capable of being Bi, homosexual or heterosexual depending on which energy they tap into, determinds which kind of sexual orientation they will be attracted to.
Do you think homosexuality is biological or not?

I am of the opinion that our dna and our astrological profiles are linked. I base this opinion on studies conducted by nasa into the effects of weightlessness on pregnant rats. The rats offspring were horribly deformed because, as they later determined, the embryo needs the earths magnetic field to determine which way up to put the head and tail and from these starting points the limbs etc grow so you can imagine the resulting mutation. Our dna is influenced by cosmic energies which is why i believe astrology works and why i believe that homosexuality can be (but not always) an inherent trait and seen in the natives chart. Just because we (male and female) carry the same dna doesnt mean we have access or control of that dna. In fact the Y chromosome which carries the SRY Gene (sex determining gene) has only 78 working genes and the X chromosome has 1500 working genes. All the other genes lay dormant, serving no purpose and having no function. We also share 99% of our dna with mice and apart from both liking cheese we have little else in common. When we look at the charts of families we often see trends that certainly indicate a connection between astrology and Genetics which is further evident when medical astrology shows a correlation between ones natal chart and inherited medical conditions. I believe that there are certain aspects in a natives chart that give the indication for homosexuality just as there are aspects for artistic ability, physical traits or any other number of things. Ultimately the native can choose to ignore such biological and astrological traits but denying them doesnt mean they dont exist within them.

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Unread 02-04-2009, 11:52 PM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

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Originally Posted by rogue_red
Do you think homosexuality is biological or not?

I am of the opinion that our dna and our astrological profiles are linked.
I know you aimed this question at A4U, but here is my POV:

Basically this comes back to the nature/nuture debate. If we take the view that either is true, totally, we run into two different problems.

1) Sexual preference is biological. The danger here is that geneticists will search for a "gay gene" and may attempt to screen for it. Brave New World idea, and that scares me.

2) Sexual preference is a social thing. This leads to the the idea that it is a choice and plays right into the hands of religious conservatives and bigots.

Assigning preference to both (nature/nuture) does not necessarily get rid of the above problems.

The reason that such discussions make me uncomfortable is that they are so often used to point fingers. You aren't doing that, but so many times that is what happens.
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Unread 02-05-2009, 12:04 AM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

[quote=gaer][quote=rogue_red]
Do you think homosexuality is biological or not?

I am of the opinion that our dna and our astrological profiles are linked.
Quote:
I know you aimed this question at A4U, but here is my POV:

Basically this comes back to the nature/nuture debate. If we take the view that either is true, totally, we run into two different problems.

1) Sexual preference is biological. The danger here is that geneticists will search for a "gay gene" and may attempt to screen for it. Brave New World idea, and that scares me.

2) Sexual preference is a social thing. This leads to the the idea that it is a choice and plays right into the hands of religious conservatives and bigots.

Assigning preference to both (nature/nuture) does not necessarily get rid of the above problems.

The reason that such discussions make me uncomfortable is that they are so often used to point fingers. You aren't doing that, but so many times that is what happens.
That is why my POV is that homosexuality is both nature and nurture. Our dna just like our natal charts show indicators for certain things. For example venus in Aquarius can be an indicator for homosexuality and genetic predisposition to alcoholism. Given environmental influences these two examples can either express or depress the trait.

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Unread 02-05-2009, 12:43 AM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

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Originally Posted by rogue_red
That is why my POV is that homosexuality is both nature and nurture. Our dna just like our natal charts show indicators for certain things. For example venus in Aquarius can be an indicator for homosexuality and genetic predisposition to alcoholism. Given environmental influences these two examples can either express or depress the trait.

Rogue Red
First of all, I'm sorry about the sloppy quoting, which I fixed.

I see sexual attraction or preference or homosexuality or gayness, whatever label you want to use, as a range, not an A or B thing.

I see no reason why there are not many people who are more or less in the middle, either equally attracted to both sexes, or close to it. If so, there would be very little necessary to "push them over to one side", so to speak. Now, whether or not this has the slightest effect on attraction itself or just the way people choose to express it is anyone's guess.

But I also think there are many people who are very close the the extreme "range", meaning so close to only attracted to the same sex OR the opposite sex that changing this would be next to impossible.

That's where I think nature comes into play most powerfully.

In short, I would say that when "sexual preference" really becomes a "choice", there is no really strong preference to begin with. That would make social conditioning, life experiences, much more important.

Logically sexual preference should show up in charts. But I don't trust our data.

So long as society continues to "reward" people for being "straight", and continues to handicap them for being gay, many people will continue to hide their true feelings or "sexual orientation". And why shouldn't they? There is not yet an equal playing field, so those who are openly gay still take chances, still show unusual courage, in my view.

As long as that is so, we will always be on a wild goose-chase when looking for the truth in charts, because the charts we study will only show those who are open, which does not necessarily have anything to do with orientation.
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Unread 02-05-2009, 12:53 AM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaer
First of all, I'm sorry about the sloppy quoting, which I fixed.

I see sexual attraction or preference or homosexuality or gayness, whatever label you want to use, as a range, not an A or B thing.

Actually I think that this was what i was trying to say lol

I see no reason why there are not many people who are more or less in the middle, either equally attracted to both sexes, or close to it. If so, there would be very little necessary to "push them over to one side", so to speak. Now, whether or not this has the slightest effect on attraction itself or just the way people choose to express it is anyone's guess.

Or attracted to neither. I actually believe that asexuality is within this range as you put it and I have heard of and spoken to many gay men who are attracted to men but fall in love with women. So this supports your comments.

But I also think there are many people who are very close the the extreme "range", meaning so close to only attracted to the same sex OR the opposite sex that changing this would be next to impossible.

That's where I think nature comes into play most powerfully.

In short, I would say that when "sexual preference" really becomes a "choice", there is no really strong preference to begin with. That would make social conditioning, life experiences, much more important.

Logically sexual preference should show up in charts. But I don't trust our data.

Neither do I

So long as society continues to "reward" people for being "straight", and continues to handicap them for being gay, many people will continue to hide their true feelings or "sexual orientation". And why shouldn't they? There is not yet an equal playing field, so those who are openly gay still take chances, still show unusual courage, in my view.

Absolutely, well said.

As long as that is so, we will always be on a wild goose-chase when looking for the truth in charts, because the charts we study will only show those who are open, which does not necessarily have anything to do with orientation.
I really like the way you put that. It was a well said and well thought response.

Rogue
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  #16  
Unread 02-05-2009, 02:18 AM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaer
I know you aimed this question at A4U, but here is my POV:

Basically this comes back to the nature/nuture debate. If we take the view that either is true, totally, we run into two different problems.

1) Sexual preference is biological. The danger here is that geneticists will search for a "gay gene" and may attempt to screen for it. Brave New World idea, and that scares me.

2) Sexual preference is a social thing. This leads to the the idea that it is a choice and plays right into the hands of religious conservatives and bigots.

Assigning preference to both (nature/nuture) does not necessarily get rid of the above problems.

The reason that such discussions make me uncomfortable is that they are so often used to point fingers. You aren't doing that, but so many times that is what happens.
I agree with all that you have said... However, I am with the belief that any sexual orientation is a choice and the choice is either or, of a conscious or subconscious nature. The 3rd house rules the conscious mind the the 12th house rules the subconscious mind. As far as the bigots are concerned, we can not concern with them because they are not free thinkers. Just because bigots are not free thinkers, that should not derail the free thinkers from seeking the truth. Truth is, we don't really have any proof as to how sexual orientation is derived, all we have are our opinions based on what we have observed but we have not observed the whole world. The so called animals used in the lab test to conduct the gay study and what not, those studies are bias. For one, if you mess with something long enough in an attempt to get it to go your way, in other words manipulation, finally it will go your way. Also, how about the other rats in different hemispheres of the world, why aren't they included in these studies?



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Unread 02-05-2009, 02:26 AM
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Kaiousei no Senshi Kaiousei no Senshi is offline
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

Quote:
The so called animals used in the lab test to conduct the gay study and what not, those studies are bias.


Do you actually read things? The rats weren't used for a "gay study" they underwent pregnancy in 0 gravity and the pups were misshapen. How that can possibly be "biased" is beyond me.

Quote:
Also, how about the other rats in different hemispheres of the world, why aren't they included in these studies?
I'm not sure how the gravity rats experience in the Southern Hemisphere is any different than the gravity the rats here in the Northern get.
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Unread 02-05-2009, 04:13 AM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrologer4U
I agree with all that you have said... However, I am with the belief that any sexual orientation is a choice and the choice is either or, of a conscious or subconscious nature.

The problem is that you most definitely do *not agree* with what I said. Please read what I said again. I think the idea that any sexual orientation is a choice is absurd. I'm afraid you are agreeing with yourself here.
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Unread 02-06-2009, 12:39 AM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
Do you actually read things? The rats weren't used for a "gay study" they underwent pregnancy in 0 gravity and the pups were misshapen. How that can possibly be "biased" is beyond me.[/color]

No one mentioned which study was being discussed. I live in the United states, when I took a human sexuality class, the only rat testing to justify being born as a homosexual were test where rats were injected with high levels of testosterone.

In response to pups being born deformed with mising limbs and such, what does that have to do with sexual orientation?

I'm not sure how the gravity rats experience in the Southern Hemisphere is any different than the gravity the rats here in the Northern get.
You are not supposed to be sure of it, that part was a joke, that is why I had a smiley face at the end, whichyou did not add to my quote...

Bottom line is this, any test conducted in the name of trying to figure out why people prefer the same sex is bias. If the test are not bias, test would also be conducted to try and figure out what makes one prefer sex with the opposite sex and so forth with all sexual orientations.


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Unread 02-06-2009, 12:56 AM
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

Quote:
No one mentioned which study was being discussed.
That is true and I do apologize if you meant another study, I just thought it was a bit too late in the game to be bringing up those tests from WAY back in the discussion, especially when that rat, 0 gravity one was the most recently brought up. My bad.

Quote:
In response to pups being born deformed with mising limbs and such, what does that have to do with sexual orientation?
It doesn't, which was why I jumped on you after your whole "Biased gay animal tests, bah!" which I'm not sure how they're biased anyway. You may have had your testosterone filled rats, but I believe the animals called into discussion were unaltered sheep who only mated male/male.

Quote:
You are not supposed to be sure of it, that part was a joke, that is why I had a smiley face at the end, whichyou did not add to my quote...
I just highlighted what you said and copied and pasted it. Not my fault the smiley didn't carry over.

Quote:
Bottom line is this, any test conducted in the name of trying to figure out why people prefer the same sex is bias.
I don't believe that, but okay.

Quote:
If the test are not bias, test would also be conducted to try and figure out what makes one prefer sex with the opposite sex and so forth with all sexual orientations.
Who says there aren't? Just because we don't quote any doesn't mean there aren't any studies like this. Heck, thinking outside the box, perhaps they're doing both. Plus, the human studies were pre and post-natal observation of physical differences in the brain and such of gay and straight people. Again, I'm not sure how you can be biased when you're directly observing the different size/density of one person's hippocampus (sp?) compared to another.

I'm not sure how your shouts of "bias" can stand, to be honest, since I'm not sure how they are. At least they're taking the time to gather subjects and OBSERVE other than just SPECULATE which is something astrologers seem to enjoy doing.
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Unread 02-06-2009, 01:01 AM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: The chart of a Gay man

Edited: reason why? I'm not quite sure as of yet, thinking it has something to do with post being moved from one thread to another.

Last edited by Astrologer4U; 02-06-2009 at 05:43 AM.
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Unread 02-06-2009, 02:11 AM
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Re: Indications of Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.hyde
i think al personal planets(sun,mercury,venus,mars) in major aspect with URANUS could be an indication of deviance in thinking especially venus,mars and if the seventh house is involved. neptune also has some homosexual tendencies
I think most people concerned with human rights are past thinking about homosexuality as "deviance."
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Unread 02-06-2009, 03:34 AM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: Indications of Homosexuality

I, speaking for *myself*, am saying the same thing. There has not been one aspect or sign or house or any combination of factors that supports the claim that sexuality can be read from a chart.

You and I have both been around this forum long enough to see people try to make such claims, you longer than I, Kai. So far not one claim has been substantiated.
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Unread 02-06-2009, 05:45 AM
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Re: Indications of Homosexuality

Gentleman, ladies...

Can't we all just get along? I think everyone needs to take a step back and calm down. Deep breaths...

GOOD POINT ETERNALAUTUMN!


I think, though, that most of us can agree that homosexuality is not "special" anymore, it is not something that is set apart, it is right in there with the rest of the spectrum that is sexuality. I dont believe that it's possible to look at any one "facet" of sexuality without looking at all the others, i.e. looking at astrological "factors" for homosexuality without looking at the factors for all sexuality at the same time. It doesn't make sense. It's like ripping a random page out of a book and trying to understand what the book is about.

As a "homosexual" (I dont really like that word), I can say that although you may think you do, no one knows as much about homsexuality as homosexuals themselves do. And personally, I am still "fresh" to this life, and I havent quite decided what I believe in yet, in regards to "gayness". I can say, however, that this topic has no place in astrology. What is there to gain from the knowledge that someone may have "tendencies" or "influences" towards being gay? So what? What does that mean? What does that change? Nothing at all. Does it really give a huge insight into personality or future events? I think not.

Last edited by starlink; 02-06-2009 at 12:12 PM.
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Unread 02-06-2009, 07:06 AM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: Indications of Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana
Hey people

Btw what is interesting is that a great majority of gay/bisexual people are involved in arts... from poets/writers to singers/actors... maybe there is something to this ...

makes me wonder

T
Tik, I agree that it appears that way. Gays and bisexuals are very visible in the arts, but I think that is because historically there is a more open-minded view there.

I have always believed that there must be quite a few gays in sports, in the army, and we already know how many people are closeted in the church, to say nothing of politicians.

The common stereotype is that less masculine=gay or more likely to be gay, and that macho is straight. But I think that any of us who are accepting of other people are often quite surprised to find out that this is simplistic. I am a bit suspicious of the idea that men who spend most of their time with other men are NECESSARILY less gay if the groups they are involved in are powerful, macho, even violent. I'm not presenting this as a belief, just something to think about.

If Joe the ballet dancer comes out, it's hardly going to be a problem for his career. If Joe the pro quarterback comes out, I'm not sure he can expect anything else but losing his job.

I'm a suspicious person by nature. I do think that many people hide behind a wife and kids in the sense that having them allows them to pass. I don't condemn them for making this decision so long as they do not condemn other people just like them who are not hiding. But how often have we seen people in politics and religion condemning non-straight people while leading secret lives? Now, supposing they are never caught, never outed? What would we see in their charts? Deception, fear of themselves, lack of integrity. But since there are so many people hiding, we would assume their charts are those of straight men, so we would miss indications of being gay, assuming we are seeing something else.

This is why I continue to point out that until the day when people are no more concerned about their sexual orientation than they are about what hobbies they prefer, or what foods they prefer, or what occupation they prefer, we have no hope of getting accurate data. And without it, we have nothing. Thus my continued insistance that we are yet only dealing with dirty data.

That has been and remains my only point. When the day comes when we do get reliable data, then yes, I think we should find indications. But honestly and openness must come first.
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