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  #1  
Unread 11-24-2019, 06:25 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

Hi

I’m wondering if a separating aspect between significators is still a ‘yes’, or only applying aspects.
I asked if my boyfriend that just broke up with me is going back to his ex

He is Moon, separating from a square with me Saturn, and about to perfect a sextile with Venus. So I think the answer is yes, and this is a translation of light so the love he gave to me he is now giving to her. But on the other hand his cosignificator Sun in his 5th makes no aspects at all. Could someone tell me?

https://imgur.com/hlEmqTQ


Last edited by lux111; 11-24-2019 at 06:31 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 11-24-2019, 06:44 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

The moon acts as a timer, separating aspects show what happened, applying aspects show what will happen.
Moon separates from Jupiter, applies to Venus. In libra, looking for a partner.
Who is Venus? She rules his 4th and 11th, and is in his 6th.
Could be someone he met through his family, in his home, a friend.
As you wrote, there is no connection between you and him.
Sorry about this news for you, I know you are suffering.
You are coming to a conjunction with pluto, breaking off.
Uranus rules your 2nd of self esteem, and mars is coming to oppose it, hopefully you will accept the situation and not let it knock you off your balance.
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  #3  
Unread 11-25-2019, 01:45 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
The moon acts as a timer, separating aspects show what happened, applying aspects show what will happen.
Moon separates from Jupiter, applies to Venus. In libra, looking for a partner.
Who is Venus? She rules his 4th and 11th, and is in his 6th.
Could be someone he met through his family, in his home, a friend.
As you wrote, there is no connection between you and him.
Sorry about this news for you, I know you are suffering.
You are coming to a conjunction with pluto, breaking off.
Uranus rules your 2nd of self esteem, and mars is coming to oppose it, hopefully you will accept the situation and not let it knock you off your balance.
Yes this is why I’m wondering if the aspect between us is a yes, or a no because it’s a square, or a no because it’s separating by quite a large orb. Venus does make sense because in a couple of weeks he’s going back to his family home in his family country, where is business is and where his friends are. So it could just be that, depending on whether I took the separating square between significators as a ‘yes, to her’ or a ‘no (but probably will get together with someone in his hometown)’
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Unread 11-25-2019, 04:11 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

It's a square, and it's separating, there is no aspect between you two.
His 5th of love affairs is mars, approaching the opposition with unpredictable Uranus.
This is not you.
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  #5  
Unread 11-25-2019, 05:05 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
It's a square, and it's separating, there is no aspect between you two.
His 5th of love affairs is mars, approaching the opposition with unpredictable Uranus.
This is not you.
Yeah I understand that but since the question was is he going back to his ex (the one before me) I’m wondering if no aspect between me and him means no, he’s not going back to her
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Unread 11-25-2019, 07:49 AM
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

yeah.. look

next aspect moon does is Venus which sits in your 12th house - your hidden enemy.
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  #7  
Unread 11-25-2019, 08:18 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Originally Posted by tikana View Post
yeah.. look

next aspect moon does is Venus which sits in your 12th house - your hidden enemy.
That’s what I was thinking. Especially that the north node is in his 12th, my 6th.. and she’s in his 6th.

But I’m just wondering how I get a ‘yes’ from a separating square between main significators, because even if she’s the 3rd party, I wouldn’t have put Venus as significator for her.. Mars is his L5 and Saturn his L7. Venus just rules his 4th and 11th — a friend he might end up with maybe.. but would they rule an ex-girlfriend he was reuniting with? ..what am I missing?
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Unread 11-25-2019, 08:31 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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That’s what I was thinking. Especially that the north node is in his 12th, my 6th.. and she’s in his 6th.

But I’m just wondering how I get a ‘yes’ from a separating square between main significators, because even if she’s the 3rd party, I wouldn’t have put Venus as significator for her.. Mars is his L5 and Saturn his L7. Venus just rules his 4th and 11th — a friend he might end up with maybe.. but would they rule an ex-girlfriend he was reuniting with? ..what am I missing?
Furthermore he also then aspects Jupiter as well who is in domicile, but Jup is L6 and L8... is this the same situation/person because they’re conjunct? Still not clear on why they would represent a lover or new gf as lords of those houses. ALTHOUGH I know he’s travelling again soon after getting home so this could be meeting in their hometown (4th) then sex (8th?) while travelling (Sag) with her (Venus) for work (6th) ...?
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Unread 11-25-2019, 09:29 AM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

What was your real question of this chart? Then look at the receptions between the significators.
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Unread 11-25-2019, 09:38 AM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

Do you know her? She is Jupiter and could also be Venus, if Venus isn't you. Venus in conjunction with Jupiter. I don't think you will meet her. So both planets are representing her.
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Unread 11-25-2019, 10:32 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
Do you know her? She is Jupiter and could also be Venus, if Venus isn't you. Venus in conjunction with Jupiter. I don't think you will meet her. So both planets are representing her.
My question was ‘is he going back to his ex (from before me)’. She is Italian and will be in his hometown over Xmas. She has tried to interfere in our relationship for a long time.. trying to get him back.. he didn’t exactly try to stop her sincerely until just a few months ago. I certainly know who she is and she me, but I’ve not met her in person and I hope I never will.. But he thrives on the adoration and I don’t know really the truth of what’s between them, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he was getting back with her and even if she was accompanying him on his work trip.

Do I assign her a significator based on her relationship to me, like 12th, or to him, like his 5th or 7th? I still don’t understand how it can be ‘yes’ if I’m asking about him and the two of us have no applying aspect
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Unread 11-25-2019, 10:45 AM
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

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Originally Posted by lux111 View Post
Do I assign her a significator based on her relationship to me, like 12th, or to him, like his 5th or 7th? I still don’t understand how it can be ‘yes’ if I’m asking about him and the two of us have no applying aspect
It is a yes, because we don't look at the aspects between you and him! rather if his significators are in any aspects with other planets (which are not your significators). Then we check the receptions between these planets - also the receptions between your and her significators.
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  #13  
Unread 11-26-2019, 05:52 AM
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by lux111 View Post
My question was ‘is he going back to his ex (from before me)’. She is Italian and will be in his hometown over Xmas. She has tried to interfere in our relationship for a long time.. trying to get him back.. he didn’t exactly try to stop her sincerely until just a few months ago. I certainly know who she is and she me, but I’ve not met her in person and I hope I never will.. But he thrives on the adoration and I don’t know really the truth of what’s between them, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he was getting back with her and even if she was accompanying him on his work trip.

Do I assign her a significator based on her relationship to me, like 12th, or to him, like his 5th or 7th? I still don’t understand how it can be ‘yes’ if I’m asking about him and the two of us have no applying aspect
Do you assign the Ex of your Ex a significator based on her relationship to you? I would say, definitely not.
Her suspected relationship is to him, not to you, in relation to this question. So, just ignore you, for now.
Does L1 apply to L7? or vice versa? If not, the answer is no, they are probably not getting back together.

If aspects apply, it describes the future - e.g. say Mercury applies to Jupiter in 3 deg by any sort of aspect.
If the aspect separates, contact has happened in the past, in Horary.

The type of aspect plus any reception can describe yes or no more clearly.

There are also limits to the moiety of aspects for the various planets.
Generally, though, wide aspects of more than 5 degrees can be ignored.
But don't forget you can also use the ephemeris and see the date when the two signifiers might be in contact (or not.)

You can usefully look at a second pair or significators sometimes, if they are NOT in use already! for relationship questions only.
The Sun for the male person and Venus for the female (this ex of his.)
Venus would have to be applying to Sun, not the other way round because Venus is moving faster.
It can also be helpful to look at the reception between Venus & Sun.
Does Sun receive Venus? If so, how strong is the reception?
Does Venus receive Sun? If so, how strongly?
This can give you an idea of their mutual 'attraction' too - or not.

It's always difficult when you ask questions about other people, and they haven't asked the question themselves. You must turn the chart whereby the person asked about (in this case your ex) becomes the 1st House and its ruler his signifier.
Overall, the Moon signifies the action that you are asking about.
Ask yourself, what is the Moon doing? What Sign & House is she in? Who does she receive? If she's translating light, who is she translating it from and to?

I hope this helps a bit. _____
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  #14  
Unread 11-26-2019, 07:34 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarius358 View Post
Do you assign the Ex of your Ex a significator based on her relationship to you? I would say, definitely not.
Her suspected relationship is to him, not to you, in relation to this question. So, just ignore you, for now.
Does L1 apply to L7? or vice versa? If not, the answer is no, they are probably not getting back together.

If aspects apply, it describes the future - e.g. say Mercury applies to Jupiter in 3 deg by any sort of aspect.
If the aspect separates, contact has happened in the past, in Horary.

The type of aspect plus any reception can describe yes or no more clearly.

There are also limits to the moiety of aspects for the various planets.
Generally, though, wide aspects of more than 5 degrees can be ignored.
But don't forget you can also use the ephemeris and see the date when the two signifiers might be in contact (or not.)

You can usefully look at a second pair or significators sometimes, if they are NOT in use already! for relationship questions only.
The Sun for the male person and Venus for the female (this ex of his.)
Venus would have to be applying to Sun, not the other way round because Venus is moving faster.
It can also be helpful to look at the reception between Venus & Sun.
Does Sun receive Venus? If so, how strong is the reception?
Does Venus receive Sun? If so, how strongly?
This can give you an idea of their mutual 'attraction' too - or not.

It's always difficult when you ask questions about other people, and they haven't asked the question themselves. You must turn the chart whereby the person asked about (in this case your ex) becomes the 1st House and its ruler his signifier.
Overall, the Moon signifies the action that you are asking about.
Ask yourself, what is the Moon doing? What Sign & House is she in? Who does she receive? If she's translating light, who is she translating it from and to?

I hope this helps a bit. _____
This is such a clear answer so thank you, it helps so much

So if she’s his L7, Saturn, then although he’s in her sign of exaltation (Lib), the separating square with huge 8° orb between him (Moon) and her suggests no.

He in his 4th next applies to Venus in Sag in his 6th, (travelling home for work) and although Venus receives him in her domicile, his L4, (parents’ house) they don’t have mutual reception, so he doesn’t give anything back. Venus also rules his 11th. So it looks more like Venus is friends and family welcoming him home.

His co-significator Sun is in the same sign as Venus but different house and no contact. The Sun makes no aspects AT ALL, except interestingly, a trine to Chiron, which ONLY squares Venus and Jupiter. Whatever he’s going back to may hurt him somehow.

His last perfecting aspect is a sextile with Jupiter, which rules his 6th and 9th, so he travels again for work soon after he gets home.

So overall, I think they’re not getting back together
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Unread 11-26-2019, 08:01 AM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

I agree with aquarius that we can ignoring you. However the ex is not only represented due to L1, she could be signified through any other planet in the chart. Look at his significators moon and sun. Moon is in venus' rulership and in sextile with venus! Venus doesn't receive moon but sun in triplicity. Venus isn't received by sun in any dignities but sun is in jupiter's rulership and term. Jupiter, on the other hand, is in Sun's triplicity. Moon is in Jupiter's face, both are aspecting each other. She is represented by jupiter and venus and he is moon and sun. There is mixed mutual reception between jupiter and sun.
If we don't ignoring you in the chart, then you are Saturn and receive Jupiter in term and fall, which indicates she is a thorn in your side.

Last edited by kalinka; 11-26-2019 at 08:36 AM.
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  #16  
Unread 11-26-2019, 02:32 PM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
I agree with aquarius that we can ignoring you. However the ex is not only represented due to L1, she could be signified through any other planet in the chart. Look at his significators moon and sun. Moon is in venus' rulership and in sextile with venus! Venus doesn't receive moon but sun in triplicity. Venus isn't received by sun in any dignities but sun is in jupiter's rulership and term. Jupiter, on the other hand, is in Sun's triplicity. Moon is in Jupiter's face, both are aspecting each other. She is represented by jupiter and venus and he is moon and sun. There is mixed mutual reception between jupiter and sun.
If we don't ignoring you in the chart, then you are Saturn and receive Jupiter in term and fall, which indicates she is a thorn in your side.
Yikes
So any applying aspect with any planet that could technically represent a 3rd party, can be a ‘yes’? regardless of what house it rules?
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Unread 11-26-2019, 03:03 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

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Originally Posted by lux111 View Post
Yikes
So any applying aspect with any planet that could technically represent a 3rd party, can be a ‘yes’? regardless of what house it rules?
yes , right
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Unread 11-26-2019, 06:38 PM
AJ Astrology AJ Astrology is offline
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

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Originally Posted by lux111 View Post
Hi

I’m wondering if a separating aspect between significators is still a ‘yes’, or only applying aspects.
I asked if my boyfriend that just broke up with me is going back to his ex

He is Moon, separating from a square with me Saturn, and about to perfect a sextile with Venus. So I think the answer is yes, and this is a translation of light so the love he gave to me he is now giving to her. But on the other hand his cosignificator Sun in his 5th makes no aspects at all. Could someone tell me?

https://imgur.com/hlEmqTQ

Hi lux111,

I understand your confusion. In natal charts, Sun is the key, but in horary it;s Moon. That's why generally Moon is co-significator or when the ASC ruler is in bad shape (like retrograde) Moon is the primary significator.

But, those rules go out the window when Moon is primary significator for the house governing the question.

You might see better with this:




I suspect what you really want to know is whether he's coming back. Not gonna happen. Or, whatever it is you're hoping for is not gonna happen. Saturn in H1 along with Dragon's Tail makes that painfully obvious.

He's Moon. Venus is currently the object of his affection and rules his H4 and H11. That comports with what you said. That will be short-lived. Why? Moon at 26 Libra is a critical degree and Libra is a tropical sign aka cardinal sign indicating change and Moon is about to change signs and he'll move on to Scorpio woman (Mars).

Moon separating from Saturn square says it all. That's an unsympathetic square, as opposed to a sympathetic square. The difference being a sympathetic square in any chart indicates a conflict, contention, challenge, difficulty, obstacle, issue etc etc which can be resolved, although not always exactly the way you want, while an unsympathetic square can never be resolved.

It's also a left-hand square and not a right-hand square and in this instance that's good for him, but not for you.
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  #19  
Unread 11-27-2019, 05:28 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post
Hi lux111,

I understand your confusion. In natal charts, Sun is the key, but in horary it;s Moon. That's why generally Moon is co-significator or when the ASC ruler is in bad shape (like retrograde) Moon is the primary significator.

But, those rules go out the window when Moon is primary significator for the house governing the question.

You might see better with this:




I suspect what you really want to know is whether he's coming back. Not gonna happen. Or, whatever it is you're hoping for is not gonna happen. Saturn in H1 along with Dragon's Tail makes that painfully obvious.

He's Moon. Venus is currently the object of his affection and rules his H4 and H11. That comports with what you said. That will be short-lived. Why? Moon at 26 Libra is a critical degree and Libra is a tropical sign aka cardinal sign indicating change and Moon is about to change signs and he'll move on to Scorpio woman (Mars).

Moon separating from Saturn square says it all. That's an unsympathetic square, as opposed to a sympathetic square. The difference being a sympathetic square in any chart indicates a conflict, contention, challenge, difficulty, obstacle, issue etc etc which can be resolved, although not always exactly the way you want, while an unsympathetic square can never be resolved.

It's also a left-hand square and not a right-hand square and in this instance that's good for him, but not for you.
Ah so interesting! Thanks so much, I didn’t even know about L/R-hand and sympathetic squares either.

So the answer is yes..? ..but he receives her (takes what she offers) but doesn’t reciprocate in some way, and the situation soon changes, ie. he moves onto Jupiter (perhaps ‘lots of other women’?) and then leaves libra. So, then, their respective houses are each other’s detriment (Scorpio for Venus and Cap for Moon), which would indicate bad blood.

Is that accurate so far?!

One last question. Can I continue to see the story unfolding once the moon changes sign? Like, does ‘end of the matter’ just mean end of ‘that’ matter which was asked about, but the new sign shows the next part of the story anyway?

I’m wondering what you think about the idea that since he, a feminine body, moves on to conjunct Mars in Scorpio (exact opposite Uranus and conjunct Merc) a masculine planet/sign with two aspects that indicate homosexuality.. This might show something else. Mars rules his 5th house of sex.

Furthermore, Mars rules his 10th. I know this is getting away from the question so can I analyse that? ...A conjunction with Mars in its domicile, while he’s in fall *and* via combusta, could mean big trouble in work.. Mercury is in contact with Mars, and rules his 12th of downfall and enemies, and 3rd of communication. Merc *has* been in contact with Mars (during the retrograde) but is getting away from the situation now, and Mars is basically waiting for Moon.

I know I’m going a bit far with this but while I want to just wish him the best and forget it all, it would so help to know that even if he’s ditching me for someone else, it won’t go well.. and that his dishonesty and shady practices in work might catch up to him, and check his selfishness and arrogance. Also, if he was really more gay than he let on, I would feel less hurt and more smart like.. it’s not me, and I knew it

This isn’t to say “pls tell me those things” if you don’t agree!

Anyway, sorry for the long post. These charts that I’m more interested in studying really help to learn so many new parts of horary and to process / understand / accept my situation of course
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  #20  
Unread 11-27-2019, 07:15 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

Obviously you're struggling to have peace in your heart about this.
If we keep in mind his ethnic background, and his connections (not everyone agrees with my reading, but I stand by it, he does have connections), very probably he will choose someone from his culture, rather than you. These values supersede any feelings he may have for you. It isn't you, it's the cultural link that is missing.
Remember in the original chart you are cazimi, which is protective of you. The separation is in reality saving you. Try to move on, try not to think about him any more. Consider it as a beautiful experience that helped you grow, and you will be better prepared for a future relationship because of it. It wasn't you, it was the situation. Mentally close the door. Peace.
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  #21  
Unread 11-27-2019, 10:47 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Obviously you're struggling to have peace in your heart about this.
If we keep in mind his ethnic background, and his connections (not everyone agrees with my reading, but I stand by it, he does have connections), very probably he will choose someone from his culture, rather than you. These values supersede any feelings he may have for you. It isn't you, it's the cultural link that is missing.
Remember in the original chart you are cazimi, which is protective of you. The separation is in reality saving you. Try to move on, try not to think about him any more. Consider it as a beautiful experience that helped you grow, and you will be better prepared for a future relationship because of it. It wasn't you, it was the situation. Mentally close the door. Peace.
Something about the way you worded that rang true. I don’t know why I haven’t before but I just looked up the syndicates by region and there is a very strong and violent group in his exact area, with major affiliations in the cities he travels to regularly for ‘meetings’, and a speciality in laundering. I suspected it before but I feel like someone just turned on the light.. so many other things suddenly make sense.. thanks ElanaJ
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  #22  
Unread 11-27-2019, 11:11 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

Not gonna keep posting about this topic I promise but if anyone wants to comment on my previous post and interpretation of the story, I would still like to know if I’m analysing a chart with the right idea or not
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Unread 12-07-2019, 08:28 AM
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

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Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post
Moon separating from Saturn square says it all. That's an unsympathetic square, as opposed to a sympathetic square. The difference being a sympathetic square in any chart indicates a conflict, contention, challenge, difficulty, obstacle, issue etc etc which can be resolved, although not always exactly the way you want, while an unsympathetic square can never be resolved.

It's also a left-hand square and not a right-hand square and in this instance that's good for him, but not for you.
What is a sympathetic square? Can you also explain more of the left-hand, right-hand square?

Good for learning. Tks!
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Unread 12-07-2019, 08:35 AM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

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Originally Posted by lux111 View Post
Not gonna keep posting about this topic I promise but if anyone wants to comment on my previous post and interpretation of the story, I would still like to know if I’m analysing a chart with the right idea or not
I'm trying to read this chart very simply according to your question. Will he go back to his ex?

I see L1 as you which L7 separates from. This aptly describes your breakup. Is he(Moon) moving towards anyone? Yes, to Venus and Jupiter by sextile with Moon in Venus' rulership so Moon is attracted. Since your qn is about his ex and not some other random gal, then I would think Venus is his ex.

But their patch-back may be short-lived as Moon is changing sign soon going into detriment of Venus, indicating he will have a change of heart.

I don't see Mars as another woman. Rather, it may represent strife in this chart.
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Unread 12-07-2019, 10:35 PM
Aquarius358 Aquarius358 is offline
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Re: Do aspects have to be applying to be a ‘yes’ answer

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Originally Posted by ellie04 View Post
What is a sympathetic square? Can you also explain more of the left-hand, right-hand square?

Good for learning. Tks!
There are "dexter" = to the right, i.e squares which can be read as positive and almost the same as trines.

There are "sinister" = to the left, i.e squares which are (as their name suggests) sinister and negative.

This can affect an interpretation, of course. If it's an applying "bad" square with no reception, it's pretty difficult. If it's a "good" applying square with no reception it's a situation that can be some help, and if it's a square with reception, it can be an even better outcome.

I know that doesn't answer your question in entirety and with examples, but I suggest you look up the words "sinister aspects" and "dexter aspects" in a good teaching text with examples or on skyscript.co.uk website. You'll also find there a table showing the quality of aspect with or without reception to help in interpretation.
_______
However, in understanding aspects and their relative impacts, I think it's a bit more simple to first understand the speed of the planets and their moieties (i.e the degrees allowable by both planets involved.)

I've summarised here -
Moon is fastest moving planet - moiety is 6 deg15mins
Mercury is next quickest moving - moiety is 3deg30mins
Venus is next quickest moving - moiety is 4 deg
Sun is next quickest moving - moiety is 8deg30mins
Mars is next - 3deg45mins
Jupiter is next - 6 deg
Saturn is slowest - 5 deg.

Moon can apply to all the planets and she can of course separate from all of them too. But the other planets cannot apply to Moon.
Venus can apply to Sun, but Sun cannot apply to Venus.
Jupiter can apply to Saturn but Saturn cannot apply to Jupiter (or Venus or any of the other planets.)

Keep this info close by when learning Horary. It's important till you get to memorise it all, I'd suggest. _____
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