Pisces? I really don't think so!

Opinions welcome

I am not a professional astrologer & this is my personal opinion. When I read your description of your sisters characters traits e.g "opinionated, creative in a practical way,loud, efficient in her practice (art teaching), sometimes snob" reminded my my own character traits (Pisces with Sagittarius Moon) + I am a visual artist and at the same type practical and extremely opinionated and snob (lo)...So of course she can be a Pisces,the way I see it the description screams Pisces Pisces...

Thank you. How fascinating

TamaraL said:

I am not a professional astrologer & this is my personal opinion. When I read your description of your sisters characters traits e.g "opinionated, creative in a practical way,loud, efficient in her practice (art teaching), sometimes snob" reminded my my own character traits (Pisces with Sagittarius Moon) + I am a visual artist and at the same type practical and extremely opinionated and snob (lo)...So of course she can be a Pisces,the way I see it the description screams Pisces Pisces...

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Niether am I an astrologer but I think prone to the delusion factor and the richness of their creative worlds (and creative fulfillment if a creative path is followed) there can be a touch of narcissism . The ascendent is in Pisces in my natal and when Neptune was transitting and conjuncting my Moon-Saturn conjunction in Aquarius in the 12th house a few years ago, it was just a wonderful phase. Nothing seemed to really be changing in my life from the outside but I felt unstoppable, needed no one, I could just lose myself in music and be the world's chosen queen. It didn't matter what anyone else thought of me because I was so deeply immersed in my inside world that I felt whole-hearted and bullet proof. I perceived myself as nearing moral perfection. No one knew the star I was like I did, so they couldn't cut me. Then about 7-8 years ago I realized I was mortal and equal and that sucked for a while.

I think this is not necessarily PISCES, but a strong Neptunian influence. Jupiter-Neptune conjunction seems pretty legit . That must be fun ..

OK so I'm now looking at the chart, and holy hell, again, I'm not an astrologer but all I see is passion, spirituality, love. Honestly I could be wrong but I'm thinking of an ultimate LIVER. Not a liver lol. There comes a point when so much of this can make you obnoxious, and indifferent to the opinions of others, but in a good way.

OMG there is so much in her chart!! Let me explain.

The Jupiter-Neptune conjunction is right on the ascendent as you said. Holy hell. Her artistic vision and optimism about life are probably 2 of her most strongly-nurtured values. This conjunction squares Sun-Mercury. This creates more: the Jupiter Sun square makes her set high expectations for herself and probably in her earlier years she struggled to be more realistic about her promises to others and herself so that she could actually acheive them. But no big deal, the seeing big brought endless hope and optimism into her life and helped her get through a lot of things. Neptune conjunct Sun: yikes. On the one hand there is opportunity for developping heightened creativity and compassion. On the other, she has probably worked closely with Neptune over her lifetime in order to free herself from its delusion so as to have more REAL and fulfilling relationships with people and the surrounding world. She learned to see herself, others, deadlines, bills for what they really are. And honestly that is probably where she gets her skeptic side from: from needing to develop one. That's the beauty of a square at the end of the day she can savor the best of both worlds - get to conserve her artistic inclination yet live in reality. But, as you said, Saturn is sextile her Sun, so her delusions were never allowed to not be grounded in at least one thing tangible. About Saturn while we're at it, it's in her 6th house of organization and work. It's a "natural trine" as Saturn is Cap's ruler and the 6th house related to Virgo. I would imagine that her work ethic is relatively grounded and honest.

The other factor adding to (good) self-entitlement is Mars in the first house. She will always look to herself for advice before turning to anyone, and need not kneel down for anyone. Mars is in exact opposition with her moon. This is a case of emotion fueling fire. Seeks passionate experiences. both are in a pretty close square to Pluto, heightening this need for emotional experience, but Pluto square Moon can make emotional turmoil caused by (the betrayal of) others pretty ugly, until she goes through this as many times as it takes for her to realize that her expectations of others' emotional commitment to her should be lowered and relaxed, so that she can release this energy, and relate to others happily. I also feel that this was a teenager who felt a need to rebel against Mom. I think that in this context a Moon in Gemini only increased the passionate living by giving a voice, and words to all this depth, as well as make sense of it intellectually. Pluto on the MC, are you kidding me? Here is someone who gets to make a career out of the most vulnerable depths of themselves. Venus in Aquarius heightens her creative skills by expanding her tastes to the unusual and poignant, art with purpose, delivering some sort of profound message, sometimes shocking. She probably finds the more tame, beautiful "superficial" pieces boring.

LAstly from the rulerships of the IC/MC I guess that as a child her independence was strongly nurtured and she was given a lot of advice/grounding through being talked to, so she may not realize that she does that a lot these days, as others imposing experiences and opinions on her has made her feel like she now herself has valid opinions to impose on others.

Anyway that's my take

Edit:
I didn't mention NN in Aquarius in the 3rd house is major about communicating knowledge and opinions in a selfless way, in hopes of aiding humanity. SN Leo this is executed coming from a place of confidence, but selflessness is learned as ego is set aside in order to spread ideas with a more unitarian purpose and reputation (in this case "number of fans") is sometimes comprimized in order to be true to one's beliefs, regardless of the polarity it brings. I find it interesting that her SN is in the 9th house, and that she is a teacher, spreading her comments and beliefs, so she is actually using her place of comfort (education, philosophy, culture) in order to achieve her NN's purpose of reaching and moving others and not keeping this to herself. I read somewhere that SN and NN are exhalted in Sag and Gemini respectively (don't ask me what that's about) and so by house her nodes may be considered to be in some sort of accidental exhaltation.

I think your sister is a Piscean, but she is an independent, life-slaying piscean. And obviously, as with everyone there is much more TO HER than her Sun and Mercury sign.

Focusing primarily on the major/minor aspects may help to illustrate why your sister is not typical of her sign(s).


Her art: she has 9 aspects from the quintile family (same # as Einstein though most of his involved Merc while for your sister none involve Merc but 3 involve Ven -representing her artistic talent, along w Ven's loose 60 to Nept) - and another 3 involve Mars probably making her very energetic but in a controlled way (except to the extent the Moon oppo Mars is not controlled...

Her big image and lack of self-consciousness: may comes from all the above talent.

Her brashness: There's no Jup aspect indicating her in-your-face personality you described (contrary to my first expectation) but the Moon oppo Mars is 11 min tight and so is enough to explain this by itself (not to mention the loose T-square from Pluto).

Her ignoring others' opinions: comes from the 26 min tight Mer 150 Uran (and/or the 2 x looser orbed Sun 150 Uran).


Bottom line: her talent is probably in the extreme range, but the Sun is largely unsupported aspectually and so she may not necessarily reach for as much success (however one defines that) as could be imagined from such talent.

SN in Leo seems to me what you are describing. She's an Art (creative) teacher (ninth house). Also Pluto seem to be making a lot of contacts to personal planets and is the focus of a t-square - adding the fearless power and intensity you describe. Some people live very comfortably out of their comfort zones (SN) and this seems to be the case here... That Moon in Gem may also hide the Pisces elements well...

It will also be interesting to see where the major asteroids are... She may well have a prominent Pallas or something like that...

This is some really good feedback guys. Thank you - I will have to ponder on it a little more.

Yeah as I said I'm not an astrologer but I get a sense that to some degree planets transend the constallation they're in.

As for being a visionary or creative, that is by no means restricted to Pisces. In fact every other sign is described as creative at some point, most often Scorpio, Leo, Libra, Taurus, Gemini, Aquarius. And even with minimal planetary placements here, I would imagine the aspects and the houses do it. We all have creativity within us, then it's just a question of degree and whether or not we feel a need to hone that skill and go down that path, or just not use it. Leo is typically known for its talents needing outward expression - with Pisces it can be a more private and isolated use it seems.

Trust me, if you're creative don't let some misunderstanding about your chart or anyone else tell you otherwise. If someone with more experience looked at your chart they would probably pick up on things you can't. Besides we've got a natal chart each but so much more too, draconic chart, persona charts, etc. The complexity of astrology is endless, it's not a practice you can box, and I don't care if astrologers hate me for this but no, it's not an exact science. An exact science requires one to isolate and control variables to study the effects of a single one at a time, but with an asteroid belt surrounding us plus billions of stars, that's kind of hard to do. If each one of us included all asteroids and points of interest in our charts and drew aspect lines for all, our charts would end up looking so hectic that they would appear to be the same. To me that is symbolic of our complexity and underlying unity and we can never be fully explained by a chart. This helped me when I got stuck in what I thought my chart was saying about me versus what I used to be. Before you got into astrology you already knew who you were, never lose sight of that. It's not the cosmos that are wrong, it's people needing to simplify sth infinitely complex to explain it, sometimes it just leads to more confusion.

Edit:
As for your sister, perhaps have a chat with her, and if that doesn't go well, try to own your power with or without her help, focusing on yourself (I know, I know, there comes a point when that just gets boring, right?). But it'll probably be more healing than trying to alleviate the wound/validate yourself by finding something in her chart to explain the way she is. Write a song about it

http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/hemisphereemphasis.html

Hey I don't know if you've come across this but I was researching hemispheres for my own chart and I remembered that your sister had a strong 1st quadrant. Do you, "by contrast", have a strong 4th quadrant?

Edit:
You also notice she has a relatively week 3rd quadrant lol. I'm the same, and I guess I also don't care about forcing people to like me (although I do get socially anxious and self-conscious Mercury in a critical degree other story end tangent). But when it comes to my friends I'm known for not telling them what they want to hear if I think it interferes with what I think they need to hear.

Now, here is a question? What if the planets are just scattered everywhere and not cohabiting one particular hemisphere?

MissScorpio said:

Now, here is a question? What if the planets are just scattered everywhere and not cohabiting one particular hemisphere?

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No clue !! But an immoral guess, it could make for an individual who's way of existing in this world is well balanced between introversion and extroversion, selfishness and selflessness, etc., without being particularly intense about any way of being (private self/social self).

2nd quadrant - personal yet expressed, duh !! And yes we miss things all the time . We're human beings trying to understand the cosmos for god sakes.

Yes I would love to interpret your chart. In fact, I'm curious . I'd also like to look at what sign is on the 5th house cusp in your natal chart because that gives an indication of the kind of creativity that attracts you.

Hey, for a time issue I'd have to post my interpretation of your chart in chunks, so I'll be posting some more. There's SO much to cover.

So we both get by now that I'm not an astrologer and I may (will) be wrong about some things, also that I will be missing a lot of things, that it's too vast a field to know, let alone cover, everything, even everything important. So that's out of the way.


I will nevertheless try my best with what I have right now.


Another thing I should mention is that all planets except the moon are actually in the western hemi-sphere (according to that cafe astrology page I was on yesterday, what appears to be the eastern hemisphere of the chart is counter-intuitively called the western hemisphere). This means that you thrive on the encouragement, support, and acceptance of others, and at least as a default tendency, not on top of your game without it.

MissScorpio said:

Yes, very aware that there is a lot more to her, which is why I was so determined to look at her chart. The Jupiter/Neptune conjunction stood out immediately - it's the fact that her childhood had such a major influence on her.
The Saturn sextile is probably my Father and also Grandfather who was an artist himself , interestingly my Grandfather was a Taurus and my father is Capricorn .. (Saturn ruler of Cap) and then Taurus my Grandfather..
My dad never believed she could draw until she showed him one day a rabbit she had drawn, he was gobsmacked.

What is interesting, is that she just has this natural talent to draw but she is not what I call a visionary artist.. she prints and does design.. I am more of a visionary, with novels, songwriting etc and the things I feel from others I always express in my songs which is just so Pisces, yet I am Scorpio - it comes through more spiritually for me.. Which is ironic really being as Pisces is the ultimate visionary. I feel I have more Piscean traits, but that may be because Neptune makes some pretty strong aspects in my chart and sits right my descendant and then opposes my ascendant .

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About the Jupiter-Neptune conjunction, I think you are right. She may (or may not) forgive but she will never forget that her father promised more than he could deliver (Jupiter excesses), and disillusioned her (Neptune). Or even if he did show his love in his own way and delivered a lot, it wasn't the kind of delivery she desired, or that went well with who she was. I actually now think that Saturn sextile was a denial of who she was, her father needing to see to believe in her talent speaks leaps and bounds to me about that. (Although I think she has a soft spot for her father, because it was impossible to miss that he was trying, whereas I think either her mother or grandparents took most of the blame for her self-image and relationship issues, the “how could you put your own emotional agenda ahead of mine”. I also think there was some degree of suffocation from her emotional reactions being criticized and controlled.)

And yes Neptune opposite the ascendent is very significant more later.

Your relationship with your parents seems to have been lighter on the drama, especially since, on a wide orb, the Sun semi-sextiles Jupiter, suggesting your father was better at making you happy and tended to keep his promises. But somehow with Sun semi-square Venus you grew up lacking affection towards yourself, but you probably worked to develop a healthy amount. Also Sun's conjunction to Uranus suggests he was very open-minded but may or may not have been a reliable presence.


Your mother may have been on the strict side, wanting to raise a proper lady, but at the end of the day you may have met her with less resistance, and learned a lot from her about being moral, polite, and agreeable with others, as well as the healthy balance between work and play (and now you “personal train” your own emotions and understand your responsibilities to yourself).


But with the square to mercury you may have felt that your mother just didn't GET you, and that speaking to her about your feelings was at times in vain. In your behavior this manifests as communicating your thoughts and feelings as two separate things (if you ever get to communicating your feelings, that is); you seldom have a single cohesive answer for someone, that emodies both what you think should happen, AND what you feel should happen, and feel that something is always getting overlooked in the process. If you go with what you feel – you feel you could be more rational, if you go with what you think is rational, you suck up your feelings. This goes on until you resolve the square (by figuring out how to think and feel the same thing, and unite your mind to meet your heart ).


Still, the Moon Venus quincunx aspect shows that your mother was affectionate towards you and that you received her love well. It's funny that it's a quincunx aspect because this only happens between planets in very different signs, but they miraculously work together. I think that you and your mother had different tastes and opinions but you were able to maintain a loving bond. I officially love the quincunx aspect because when a quincunx formed recently between Uranus in Aries and Saturn in Scorpio, is when I suddenly started freaking out and doing vocal exercises almost religiously (singing used to be a neglected tweenage dream), because this quincunx united rebellion and newness soaking up cardinal fire (initiative) with fear of karma and dicipline soaking up fixed water (soul and commitment). The quincunx in your natal chart unites the firey, communicative emotional nature with the earthy, grounded, people-charming romantic one. The ambitions you stand for involve your hobbies and communication. You feel that your creativity doesn't exist to the exclusion of your down-to-earth need to achieve – they can merge to produce the same result. Perhaps you flirt not only by showing that you are fair and ambitious, but that for all this you are also highly creative and self-pleasing with your ambitions.

IC ruler in the 6th house: your parents nurtured you primarily by doing useful tasks for you. They kept the home clean, ironed your clothes, made sure you had the gadgets that would be practical to you, fed you healthily, attended to your medical issues, displayed an example of planning their use of time and honest daily work in order to provide and achieve predictably.

MC ruler in the 6th house: the necessity of organization and an honest daily routine, practice in anything you want to achieve, was instilled in you. When you were much younger you may have done your homework religiously out of fear, or out of wanting to make them proud. But you were able to take away some of the good habits from this. Mercury on the 6th house cusp suggests your mind is preoccupied with tasks needing to be done and the order in which to do them.

-The moon in Leo square Mercury in Scorpio. Yes! I really did feel as a child that my Mother just didn’t get me. More to the point, she didn’t understand just how avidly I was feeling about everyone else’s problems, but that it really did give me an philosophical mind very quickly –my Father , amazed by the philosophy and poetry that use to pour out of my broken heart.

I didn’t appreciate his cold, hard , practical outlook on my feelings, he tried to assume how I was feeling and dictate or predict , and that just isn’t going to wash with a self possessed Scorpio , so his desire to reach into me and find out what was really going on backfired hugely!

There we are , isn’t that just the cycle of children for you! It just proves its about practice, and I feel that as a parent if you do not deal with your wounds efficiently they unwittingly seep into the unborn mind.

Again, I can’t thank you enough for this, it has given me so much insight and also , you have much aptitude for analysing horoscopes – you have many souls yet to touch and that is for sure![/QUOTE]

1st part - that is just so Neptune opposite ascendent !!

2nd part - not a Scorpio, but I get the feeling!! Poor Daddies, if they don't earn their way in by being especially telepathic and sensitive early on, they're doomed to some level of exclusion. At least that's how I feel. Maybe as adults it doesn't have to be that way. I don't know.

3rd part - yep amazing.

And lastly thank you, that's so sweet

PS confused - what is your sign?

Gemini *more characters*

That should partially remove the mystery, although I'm wondering whether I should have dragged it out .

Also you are strong because of that fixed energy and utter resilience to undergo the pain of anything, but also a lot of your planets are in their own houses !

Hey I have class in 9 mins but thanks so much for the quickie!! You didn't even have to. And wow, your intuition is definitely on a high. It feels good when it feels that someone gets you, and you don't have to try. So I'll go over some stuff.

Yes I'm a Gemini but for much of my teens I wanted to achieve that social butterfly status but it hasn't worked out, or when it does, it's very etherial. Because I'm more of an undercover person, and I think my energy keeps people at a distance. Obviously it's something that I'm subconsciously choosing, this is a recent revelation to me.

Yes I definitely see a lot of dirt (Taurus is on the 3rd though, but Mercury is in the 2nd). I have quite a few planets either in critical points or conjuncting critical points and that's including Mercury and Pluto opposing each other. So I'm quiet, but not naive. I have my opinions, and some find them too exaggerated. (Like when I will sometimes try to show others the damaging power of their words. Although I've mostly been conditioned not to criticize openly.) And yes I was the secret collector. Especially nannies.

My mother did, surely not knowing it was harmful, encourage me to keep the family secrets to myself. There were multiple grown-ups I reached out to and talked to growing up, and it was painful obviously knowing she wouldn't appreciate it, and tried to stop me once, and that it was behind her back, at the same time I had to block those emotions out and decide I didnt care, that I was left with no choice.

My mother was THERE, but I built my walls and isolated myself from my parents. I chose to keep things to myself as a result of ways they reacted in the past, and ways I assumed they would react. So life is stressful leading a double life, fabricating my innocent image around them, hiding everything personal.

So I too became very philosophical and those who stick around to hear me rant will tend to be blown away and then come to me in hopes of uplifting solutions to their personal issues (Jupiter). Growing up adults occasionally drooled over how I was beyond my years. I also have Mercury quintile chiron so my mind operates to alleviate wounds, and as I help people with theirs, I find they often assume I must have everything figured out for myself then, but I don't. It's a fight, and I only share what I have to tell myself most days, even empower them to achieve behaviors I don't.

"The square from your descendant is trying to illuminate your Sun (soul) with wisdom (Jupiter) There is a feeling of expanding and contracting.. was this your Father? It feels as if you have been caught between something?"

You're too smart. My father encouraged me to follow my dreams and think big, but when I got into singing he freaked out. To be fair my grades had also fallen, but that was because I wasn't going to be a puppy anymore and the way it coincided with my confession to him about singing, he thought it was because I was giving up on a conventional career that they had fallen. I will never doubt his overwhelming love for me, but occasionally he failed to show, in practice, what he preached about his parenting style. He is very generous though, always stretching himself, always trying, sometimes it backfired.

The home has money issues. Although I was always provided with everything I needed materially. I got material expressions of love.

Hahahaha lol. I think all your replies are up. Thank you.

"It must be a strange combination as so much of your energy feels quite personal yet desiring to let go and just be in some way."

Another slam-dunk

I hate doing this on the reading half the thread but I gotta put my 2 cents in..hope it makes any sense.

Boo I am NOT creative because I'm not a Pisces Scorpio Gemini Libra and Aquarius or leo.

My best friend is a Pisces with Jupiter conjunction Neptune in Capricorn 4th. She had no easy life... her father died while her mother was pregnant.

really she's not that sensitive, kind of cut thoat. Her moon is also in Gemini. Those she is extremely spiritual and just knows things. I've seen her do some rituals and it doing exactly what she asked. She's far from elitist personality though she's kind of a snob about expecting others to treat her like a princess lol

She has Sun conjunct mercury in Pisces trine Saturn conjunct Mars in Scorpio.

Her her mother and grandmother all have Saturn in Scorpio. I would type more but im on a stupid cell phone.