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Unread 11-03-2015, 07:00 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Is Astrology a Religion?

I'm basically an agnostic, or so I thought. My relationship with Astrology is intrinsically spiritual, so maybe I am religious after all! Believing in invisible forces, "communing" with them through the ritual of drawing charts, and being linked to the past through this ancient practice...and seeking its guidance; councilling others on their life paths. Gods and goddesses aside! If Astrology is a Religion, it's noncoercive, egalitarian and very loosely organized!


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Unread 11-03-2015, 08:20 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

ancient cultures did not distinguish between gods and planets. planets were gods and gods were correlated to planets , so the basis of religion has always been planets.
the word neflim in the torah is usually translated as those you fell from heaven, were cast from heaven etc. but this name can also be translated as those who fell/came from the planet. immanuel velikovsky noted in 1940 that this could be a reference to aliens but refrained from publishing this as the world was not ready for such as concept to be offered
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Unread 11-04-2015, 05:37 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

Interesting. So for today's big religions, maybe underneath it all: Christianity/Sun, Islam/Mars, Hinduism/Moon?
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Unread 11-04-2015, 05:52 AM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

Responses will hinge on what you mean by "religion."

(I like Rahu's post.)
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Unread 11-04-2015, 04:39 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
I'm basically an agnostic, or so I thought. My relationship with Astrology is intrinsically spiritual, so maybe I am religious after all! Believing in invisible forces, "communing" with them through the ritual of drawing charts, and being linked to the past through this ancient practice...and seeking its guidance; councilling others on their life paths. Gods and goddesses aside! If Astrology is a Religion, it's noncoercive, egalitarian and very loosely organized!

I started believing in a God or a Divine energy after I began studying Astrology. IMO, It seems like an impossible task to remain an atheist once you begin studying your chart, and the charts of others and see just how deep the rabbit hole goes and how much people manifest their charts to a T along with their life experiences.

It does sometimes feel like a religion. I know it's made me a much more spiritual person, more open and understanding to others as well. I'm definitely not as quick to judge as I once was.

I'm a devout Astrologer We should have a symbol to wear, lol.
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Unread 11-04-2015, 09:54 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

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Interesting. So for today's big religions, maybe underneath it all: Christianity/Sun, Islam/Mars, Hinduism/Moon?
well yes one could see it that way Christianity did infect incorporate element of the sol invictus religion such as the halo around divine figures. the halo was a symbol of sol invictus of th eromans and sol invictus was a linear off shoot of mazda ahura . . islam symbol is more directly the moon. as medina, the city of islams birth was a city founded by nabunaid a Babylonian king who was dedicated it to nannar/sin the the moon god. the symbol of islam,the crecent moon is exactly that of nannar/sin ..the crecent moon. mt Sinai and the Sinai desert are named for nannar/sin and the crossroads of the Sinai werenamed after his consort nikkal. to this day there is a city in the Sinai called in Arabic nikhl. nannar/sin ruled the city of harran which was considered in ancient times the hereditary home of the jews through Abraham. when the jew were exiled to Babylon ,only the royalty ,soldiers and artisans were taken , the rest of the jewish population was sent to haran. it was ouside of harran that ezekiel had his vision of god and was taken up to the firery chariot

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Unread 11-04-2015, 10:55 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

I am taking this thread a bit off of what the OP intended but has anyone ever wondered why the ancients held the planets in such awe and terror. these are today little dots in the sky, why did the ancients see in these spots awesome and potentially terribly destructive forces?
the ancients saw history as sequence of ages or epochs and each age was rule by a planet. each age was initiated by a planet . all a great ancient civilizations have been destroyed by catastrophic changes in the earth. oringinally ,darwins theory of evolution stated that all forces acting now on the earth such as erosion etc have always acted in the same way in the past. but this has been proven false as now scientist acknowledge there have been 5 or 6 great extinctions, the geological conditions that exist today have not be steady and constant through the eons.
the ancients experienced that the transition of the great ages were catastrophic with the planets causing the destruction of the old age and ushering in a new era.
this means that planets actually left their orbits and careened and collided with the earth. the last time was march 23 687bc when
the chinese records show the sun set and then rose back up.
this date is archeologically the date given when king sennscherib's army was utterly destroyed by hail and brimestone,according to the hebrew commentaries and the torah.
this episode is well known from the bible and archeology .

the planet mars was responsible during this catastrophic encounter.
Babylonian texts baffle archeologist because these cuniform documents tell of all cities on fire, of great earth quakes and of the great river reversing there flow.
archeologist call these "troublesome" because they do not believe or know that the axis of the earth was repeatedly twisted in the 7th century bc.one should read the books of velikovsky ( http://varchive.org/ ) to see why the ancients held the planets in awe in terror. the planet periodically caused catastrophic changes on the earth.the Iliad written by homer about the Trojan war tells of Venus and mars fighting and coming down to earth. this is no myth,in the 16thcentury bc, venus did catastrophically interact with the earth. modern science denies such occurrences but the archeological facts do support this truth as in the 16th century bc, all the great megalithic civilization were laid waste by catastrophic earth quakes. this was the age of troy. the walls of troy were 20 ft.high and 40 ft. wide. these walls were found thrown on their sides when excavated. not only troy but Mycenae and the entire agean area were subject to totally destruction.
when we read in mythology that Jupiter overthrew Saturn, when Saturn overthrew Uranus, these are remembrances of ancient catastrophes caused by the planets. this is why the ancients feared the planets, the knew that periodically the planets left their stable orbits and reign terror and death upon the earth.
generally the ancients believed the ages were around 2600 years. which means that we are living near a period when a planet should again reign down fire and brimstone on us

A Western Book of the Dead — A Soul Traveler's Guide to Death, Dying, and the Other Side Something is Affecting the Entire Solar System – Sun’s Magnetic Field 230% Stronger


Strange things are happening in both outer and inner space. Scientists are discovering that the Solar System, the sun, and life itself are mutating in totally unprecedented ways.

They are reporting changes that are being recorded in space that have never been seen before. Studies show that the Sun and the planets themselves are physically changing at an accelerated pace. Most notably, they are undergoing major changes in their atmospheres.

rahu

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Unread 11-05-2015, 12:16 AM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

Astrology isn't technically a religion; it's one of the hermetic arts along with magic and alchemy.

Astrological magic will get you pretty close to there, though, even books like Picatrix written by those good Muslims will tell you about the angels and plantetary intelligences and how to contact them, just like the Harranians and the Greeks tell you about. And later the Christians, though the Muslims and Christians are technically monotheist.

You might want to look into hermetic philosophy if it intrigues you. There's a lot there.
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Unread 11-05-2015, 02:22 AM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

religion? no
but it is definitely a science!
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Unread 11-05-2015, 03:18 AM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahu View Post
I am taking this thread a bit off of what the OP intended but has anyone ever wondered why the ancients held the planets in such awe and terror. these are today little dots in the sky, why did the ancients see in these spots awesome and potentially terribly destructive forces?

Yes, I've wondered about that a lot. I think that if one were to live in a primitive time without much science, I could see how people might think that the activity in the skies, with the weather, and so on, were some kind of independent/intelligent forces at work.

Making peace with it only makes sense if someone thought that the stars, planets, Sun and Moon had demands, "or else."

A lot of people seem to think we have it kind of bad today but we are pretty lucky to know so much about so many different things.

Last edited by Dubyadude1986; 11-05-2015 at 03:22 AM.
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Unread 11-05-2015, 05:14 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

Read "Worlds in Collision" by Velikovski--very impressive.
"Science" means "knowledge" as does "Gnosis". There are Christian Scientists and Gnostics who are very religious. Modern-science isn't a religion because it's entirely materialistic. So, if you believe Astrology can be explained in an entirely materialistic way (I, myself, am not certain it can) then it's not a religion. But there is an Art to it either way!
Alchemists who believe in Hermes as an actual god might be considered religious.
What about Vedic? Isn't it part of or at least connected to the Hindu Religion?

Last edited by david starling; 11-05-2015 at 09:01 AM.
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Unread 11-05-2015, 02:57 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

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Originally Posted by Dubyadude1986 View Post

Yes, I've wondered about that a lot.

I think that if one were to live in a primitive time without much science,


I could see how people might think that the activity in the skies,
with the weather, and so on, were some kind of independent/intelligent forces at work.

Making peace with it only makes sense if someone thought that the stars, planets, Sun and Moon had demands, "or else."

A lot of people seem to think we have it kind of bad today but we are pretty lucky to know so much about so many different things.
Asumptions of "a primitive time without much science" is a misnomer

'…..The Sumerians
and even the Egyptians
inherited all their knowledge
from an earlier advanced civilisation that lived at the southern tip of Africa more than 200,000 years ago
in a land called Sumer some 6000 years ago.
South Africans Michael Tellinger, Johan Heine
and a team of leading scientists, have researched this important subject over a seven-year period.....' http://www.messagetoeagle.com/tellingertemplesofthegods.php#.Vjts4ytUL-U
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Unread 11-05-2015, 09:30 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

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Originally Posted by rahu View Post
well yes one could see it that way Christianity did infect incorporate element of the sol invictus religion such as the halo around divine figures. the halo was a symbol of sol invictus of th eromans and sol invictus was a linear off shoot of mazda ahura . . islam symbol is more directly the moon. as medina, the city of islams birth was a city founded by nabunaid a Babylonian king who was dedicated it to nannar/sin the the moon god. the symbol of islam,the crecent moon is exactly that of nannar/sin ..the crecent moon. mt Sinai and the Sinai desert are named for nannar/sin and the crossroads of the Sinai werenamed after his consort nikkal. to this day there is a city in the Sinai called in Arabic nikhl. nannar/sin ruled the city of harran which was considered in ancient times the hereditary home of the jews through Abraham. when the jew were exiled to Babylon ,only the royalty ,soldiers and artisans were taken , the rest of the jewish population was sent to haran. it was ouside of harran that ezekiel had his vision of god and was taken up to the firery chariot

rahu
Interesting. Reminds me of a book by Zecharia Sitchin, the 12th planet.
I wonder if the Cross symbol often found in the cover of Bible and Star of David are actually originated from the same symbol of Anu, god of Annunaki. I was told that early Christianity (prior to Council of Nicea) did not use the Cross as a symbol. The Star of David, no one knows whose star it really is.

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Unread 11-05-2015, 09:39 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

Astrology today is neither a religion or a science. It was both at various times in the past. Astrology does not meet the basic definition criteria of either religion or science today. Some astrologers define astrology as a system of divination, which seems about as good as anything.

The legitimacy of Velikovsky's and Stichin's theories are not accepted by expert scholars in the field of archaeoastronomy and its cognate disciplines.

Members of different faiths and of no faiths have practiced astrology and found it compatible with their beliefs.
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Unread 11-05-2015, 10:54 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

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Originally Posted by melleoscorp View Post

Interesting. Reminds me of a book by Zecharia Sitchin, the 12th planet.
I wonder if the Cross symbol often found in the cover of Bible and Star of David
are actually originated from the same symbol of Anu, god of Annunaki.
I was told that early Christianity (prior to Council of Nicea) did not use the Cross as a symbol.
The Star of David, no one knows whose star it really is
.
Interesting links between Astrology and Religion also include

Sirius, brightest star next to the sun = Star of Bethlehem.
The stars of Orion the hunter = the Son of Man.
Orions three stars that form its narrow waistline = Wise Men from the East
because they align with Sirius, the star of Bethlehem on December 25.
Virgo = Virgin Mary
and
Bootes = Joseph.
John the Baptist = Aquarius the Water Bearer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a36_CwzA0bk
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Unread 11-05-2015, 11:05 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

Most religions are syncretic (drawn from various sources, primarily other religions).

I'm familiar with astrotheology as well as prophets and priests being astrologers, but I'm not sure that astrology itself has ever qualified as a religion. It's only a skip and a hop, granted, but I don't think it's been a religion proper.
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Unread 11-05-2015, 11:54 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by melleoscorp View Post
Interesting. Reminds me of a book by Zecharia Sitchin, the 12th planet.
I wonder if the Cross symbol often found in the cover of Bible and Star of David are actually originated from the same symbol of Anu, god of Annunaki. I was told that early Christianity (prior to Council of Nicea) did not use the Cross as a symbol. The Star of David, no one knows whose star it really is.
velokovsky's work predate sitchin but stichin had a better knpowedge of Sumerian cuniform, while velokovsky had a much broader field of knowledge . he was a mutiple PhD.

establishment science is a fraud. velikovskys theories are validated my the new information from space probes etc. I will not get into a discussion with detractor of velikovsy as they are just like the detractors of astrology, the skeptics have never studied the subject.
just one example out of hundreds of velikovskys validity.
one basic premise is that venus is a captured comet . well quess what it turns out that venus has an inonized tail following it around in its orbit. secondly the concentration hydroxyl ions in venus's atmosphere are the same as in comet and no other planet has such ghogh concentratinhydroxyl concentration in their atmospheres if any at all. this goes on and on but the scientific establishment just uses the same blinders that they use to discredit tesla for a 100 years.

the ancients considered planets gods, what more do you need to say about astrology and religion.

rahu

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Unread 11-06-2015, 12:19 AM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

I guess I see a difference between the study of the stars and the worship of the stars.
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Unread 11-06-2015, 12:22 AM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

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I guess I see a difference between the study of the stars and the worship of the stars.
Good point, well made
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Unread 11-06-2015, 03:34 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
I'm basically an agnostic, or so I thought. My relationship with Astrology is intrinsically spiritual, so maybe I am religious after all! Believing in invisible forces, "communing" with them through the ritual of drawing charts, and being linked to the past through this ancient practice...and seeking its guidance; councilling others on their life paths. Gods and goddesses aside! If Astrology is a Religion, it's noncoercive, egalitarian and very loosely organized!
It's actually more like a science. But since we only know how astrology works and not why, there's a faith factor involved, too.
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Unread 11-06-2015, 05:54 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

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Astrology isn't technically a religion; it's one of the hermetic arts along with magic and alchemy.

Astrological magic will get you pretty close to there, though, even books like Picatrix written by those good Muslims will tell you about the angels and plantetary intelligences and how to contact them.
Contacting a planetary intelligence... Do they assign "energetic beings" to planets then? And then ..since it's magic, try use this intelligence, as it were, to shape their destiny?

Doesn't bare bones astrology do the same thing? I don't see why they would need magic. If it's not promised to them in this life, via their chart, well end of story, no?
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Unread 11-06-2015, 06:54 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

No, it doesn't except that electional astrology comes pretty close, picking the best time to embark upon a project. That might be considered a form of magic.

A common example would be if you wanted love in your life, but Venus is a mess in your chart. You probably don't want to create a talisman for Venus. because you and Venus don't have the best relationship. But there are other things you can do, like creating and consecrating a talisman for a fixed star or lunar mansion that would help you to attract love. This does require some work, and you'd need to do it at an astrologically auspicious time. So that's a matter of astrological election as well.

For a bad planet, it might be somewhat repaired by doing planetary charity. Your moon *****. So you work at a women's shelter on Mondays, or during moon hours, or give money to women or to organisations that help women at those times.

Or say that a planet is in good shape in your chart, and you need some of its power to be more focussed because you're working on a specific goal. You could create a talisman for that (again, at an auspicious time) to help you.

Making and consecrating talismans, as well as keeping that connection open can be a fairly involved process, is, if you're doing it right. It won't take up your whole life, but it does involve offerings of incense, candles, meditation, and perhaps other things during the appropriate planetary periods. The idea being to bring you into a good contact with the spirit (energy if you prefer) that the planet represents.

This bears no resemblance to the mail-order, mass-produced, back-of-the-magazine adverts announcing 'hey you're under a curse buy this to break it' type of charm!

If you're not good at electional, you'd go to an astrologer who is, and who is versed in astrological magic so they can show you how to proceed. But you'd still need to do the consecrations, offerings, and meditations to get and keep that channel open between you and the spirit/energy of the planet.

In my experience, it's a pretty powerful form of magic. It doesn't always act in extraordinary ways, but it certainly can do - I've experienced that myself.

If it reminds you of Jyotish remedies, well, you're not too far off.

Even though astrological hermetica was carefully kept in different books, astrologers of the past knew about this stuff. I have often wondered if it is the missing key to the astrology we practise today. I do think there's a place for astrologers to prescribe astrological remedies in today's world. It may be a bit out there for some folks, but for a lot of people, it can be quite helpful.

ETA: Talismans need not be expensive objects. Hey, if you're a goldsmith and you can afford gold and gemstones - go for it! If not, sigils scratched into a wax talisman that's then annointed with the proper oil/incense and wrapped in a bit of silk in the corresponding planetary colour work, too! For that matter, you could do talismans on paper if pressed.

Last edited by Oddity; 11-06-2015 at 07:06 PM.
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  #23  
Unread 11-06-2015, 08:47 PM
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

Star-worship, roundly condemned in the Old Testament, was practiced back in the days when people thought the planets literally were gods, or were under the special direction of gods.

Few astrologers think this way today.

I think it's a good idea not to turn astrology into some kind of fetish. Yes, there are planets out there, but the astrological planets are inside of each of us, not somehow "out there." So many people externalize astrology when the place to look is deeply within.

Sometimes the conscious act of making and consecrating an object is simply an aid to that kind of introspection. But there is a danger in assuming that the object somehow has power apart from the beliefs that its maker invests in it.

The reason why the OT scoffs at star- and idol-worshippers is that investing power in stars and idols is simply misplaced. Rather, place one's faith in the creative divine consciousness variously known as God, All-That-Is, Brahman, and other names.

Oddity wrote:

Quote:
For a bad planet, it might be somewhat repaired by doing planetary charity. Your moon *****. So you work at a women's shelter on Mondays, or during moon hours, or give money to women or to organisations that help women at those times.
This makes a tremendous amount of sense. In modern astrology, this would be the variant known as choice-centered astrology. We can all find empowering interpretations of troublesome planetary placements, and then seek to incorporate the more constructive meanings into our everyday lives. Ideally, this will be a way that benefits other people.
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Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

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Originally Posted by rahu View Post
establishment science is a fraud. ...

rahu
Rahu, if this is what you believe, then isn't it hypocritical to use so much "establishment science" in your daily life? If you take medication, eat food produced by farmers, wear synthetic fibers, drive a car or take mass transit.... and use a computer to type your messages on this forum, you rely on "establishment science."

But conspiracy theorists love to think that Big Science suppresses their favourite conspiracy theory, generally ignoring that establishment science is fragmented across a wide range of nations, none of whom has any particular allegiance to NASA, American academics, and other favourite demonic powers. It's one thing to believe that ancient texts have something to say about celestial mechanics or ancient astronomical concerns. It's another to re-write the laws of physics and to mis-translate or spin ancient texts to get one's pet theory to fit.

Don't get me wrong, Rahu. I think it's great that Velikovsky provides you with a lot of mental stimulation. But at the very least, it is fair and honest for us to acknowledge that his views are not supported either by physics or by his interpretations of mythology. We can't just write off the laws of physics as the fraud of establishment science. We can't claim that scholars of ancient languages are scientists.
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 11-08-2015, 05:52 AM
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Smile Re: Is Astrology a Religion?

--Nice term, "Establishment Science"! Since it took form against the backdrop religious institutions, it has some religious undertones, so: "Orthodox Science" fits it as well. And, it's about half and half--both real and fraudulent. Both honest research based on the Scientific Method and con artistry as well. And an honest Scientist's attitude is, "this is what is known so far; we'll learn more later". The frauds claim infallibility they don't have, to gain money, prestige, and power over our lives. There are charlatans in every field of knowledge, and Establishment Science is no exception. The question in this case is, which type of Scientist is in control of the Scientific agenda; is it about more knowledge, or more power at any price?

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