Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Natal Astrology > Astrology and Psychology

Astrology and Psychology For interesting discussions on psychological meanings and deeper implications in natal charts between members passionated by both psychology and astrology.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 02-19-2014, 10:58 PM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Hi---
It was just this week that I recalled times when I was sexually abused as a teen by strangers and a co-worker...I wonder if I was also abused as a child and don't recall it. I have many traits of survivors. I feel sad and tense over this and am seeking help for this. I feel relieved in a way to have this awareness.....I wonder if anyone here can help with---
----What in my natal chart might indicate this? I wonder if Moon oppose Mars (emotional issues re: sex), Neptune oppose Mars (poor boundaries, difficulty saying no to people grabbing me as a teen, non-assertiveness), and Mercury square Neptune (more trouble with non-assertiveness, guilt, taking on responsibility for what an abuser did to me, feeling fearful speaking up about it) might be sources. And I see Chiron in my 7th (psychological wounds from interactions with others). I would imagine Pluto plays a role in sex abuse? It is rising in my chart.
-----WHat in my natal chart or current transits can help me as I heal? In my natal, I see Moon conjunct Neptune opposes Mars----maybe this can be a good thing, and I can use my emotions and inner healing powers to heal re: mars sexuality? Mars is in the 9th and I am feeling relieved (yet uncomfortably aware and sad) reading about sex abuse survivors---traits and healing.
----Re: current transits and healing-----I see transiting Sun and Neptune oppose my natal Pluto (stimulating psychological healing and transformation), Saturn is oppose my natal Sun and Venus (learning lessons re: self and love), Jupiter is exactly sextile my Mars (freeing me in the area of sexuality), Chiron is exac trining my Sun and Moon (emotional and self healing by Chiron), and Mercury is conjunct my 7th (intellectual awareness in the area of relations)
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thank you
Melisa
Attached Images
File Type: gif chart--transits Feb 19 2014.gif (54.6 KB, 83 views)

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to melisa For This Useful Post:
demetraceres (03-05-2014)
  #2  
Unread 02-20-2014, 12:59 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Jupiter, lord of the 8th, semicuadrate and sesquicuadrate Moon and Mars...Mars in detriment and Moon in fall, angular.

You have done well in finding the indications...Saturn opp Sun-Venus (in Cancer...family ties), etc. South Node in 8th, conj. cusp.

I'm not a woman. Best to talk with a woman who has been through the experience, including healing.

Suggestion for understanding: Put aside the "Moon conjunct Neptune and both opposing Mars" terminology, and for that substitute detailed interpretation of each planet. In other words, give significance in terms of living to the planets and you will see the picture.

Strong lack of self-esteem, self-worth....Jupiter in domicile but afflicted by aspect (the aspects will tell you about what is hampering the otherwise strong, hopeful, optimistic Jupiter) on cusp and lord of 5th...Saturn, also in domicile but afflicted by and afflicting Sun-Venus (Venus combust, Cancer involved -- see Moon-Neptune).

Pluto directs to the Asc at about age 10. Tendency to solitude, self-isolation likely. Feelings of abandonment, rejection possible. Sexual issues may come to the surface.

Study the 12th House (Repressed contents), which Moon rules....Moon keeps popping up in everything we look at; mother's role? The parental axis activated (brought to prominence) by Moon-Mars,

And Mars is preeminent in the chart (his influence permeates every aspect of the life) due to position within whole-chart pattern, elevation, square to Uranus at the Asc in 12th. Combust Venus disposes Mars. You are no quitter. Control the smoldering anger that tends to erupt violently (or...in 12th...repressed and can cause things like migraines).

You seem to have a good handle on your chart...It is up to you to develop it further, deeper.

Examine your solar returns for 2013 and 2014.

Note the T-square (fixed signs) focused on Uranus. I suggest you allow the wide orbs and work with the significance of the T-square. Mars is only 9 degrees off Uranus, applying (the directed square is roughly concurrent with the Pluto-Asc direction).

Last edited by greybeard; 02-20-2014 at 01:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to greybeard For This Useful Post:
Flapjacks (04-01-2014)
  #3  
Unread 02-20-2014, 01:04 AM
Krewster Krewster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 808
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

As a.m., Jup triangulates the Mars-Moon oppo with octile family aspects from the western hemisphere while Pluto does similar from the eastern hemisphere with semi-octile family aspects (though the Pluto-Moon aspect is loose) and, therefore, Jup and Pluto are automatically "red" aspected, creating an asymetrical "red" Kite among Mars-Moon-Jup-Pluto (if such helps with visualization/focus). likely detracting from the strength lent to your Moon by the Sun's trine.

Since "red" aspects among such planets alone could result in less severe consequences than your post indicates, Ven's aspects might be relevant (i.e., a triangle with Mars and Uran composed of undecile family aspects). So far, I know even less about the undecile's influence than you can find on the internet ("need for adjustment," etc.), but you'll understand that a triangle composed of these planets may pose unexpected challenges to your Ven and Mars. If you are inclined to teach me more about undeciles, feel free to share other details about your Venutian life (via PM if it suits) and sorry, in the meantime, for not helping specifically as requested.

Last edited by Krewster; 02-20-2014 at 01:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 02-20-2014, 02:27 AM
melleoscorp melleoscorp is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 169
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by melisa View Post
Hi---
It was just this week that I recalled times when I was sexually abused as a teen by strangers and a co-worker...I wonder if I was also abused as a child and don't recall it. I have many traits of survivors. I feel sad and tense over this and am seeking help for this. I feel relieved in a way to have this awareness.....I wonder if anyone here can help with---
----What in my natal chart might indicate this? I wonder if Moon oppose Mars (emotional issues re: sex), Neptune oppose Mars (poor boundaries, difficulty saying no to people grabbing me as a teen, non-assertiveness), and Mercury square Neptune (more trouble with non-assertiveness, guilt, taking on responsibility for what an abuser did to me, feeling fearful speaking up about it) might be sources. And I see Chiron in my 7th (psychological wounds from interactions with others). I would imagine Pluto plays a role in sex abuse? It is rising in my chart.
-----WHat in my natal chart or current transits can help me as I heal? In my natal, I see Moon conjunct Neptune opposes Mars----maybe this can be a good thing, and I can use my emotions and inner healing powers to heal re: mars sexuality? Mars is in the 9th and I am feeling relieved (yet uncomfortably aware and sad) reading about sex abuse survivors---traits and healing.
----Re: current transits and healing-----I see transiting Sun and Neptune oppose my natal Pluto (stimulating psychological healing and transformation), Saturn is oppose my natal Sun and Venus (learning lessons re: self and love), Jupiter is exactly sextile my Mars (freeing me in the area of sexuality), Chiron is exac trining my Sun and Moon (emotional and self healing by Chiron), and Mercury is conjunct my 7th (intellectual awareness in the area of relations)
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thank you
Melisa
one noticeable aspect : Pluto opposite Chiron
Pluto rules the lowest point in your chart (IC)
aggression to the point of deadly encounters? more than lust, sexual abuse is about power/control. Pluto all over it.
Chiron is a centaur but unlike the rapist drunken centaurs, he is more about transcending pain/wound
and Chiron Rx, not that you can't heal, but it sure takes more efforts to connect to your healer-self
if you believe in past life, try uncover past life memories , it will help in many ways including healing
let me know if you need a book recommendation about Chiron and Pluto

Last edited by melleoscorp; 02-20-2014 at 02:30 AM. Reason: add
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 02-20-2014, 04:54 PM
mdinaz's Avatar
mdinaz mdinaz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,379
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

I would need to see more points. Add Juno, Vesta, Pallas, Ceres, and the Vertex to your chart, and aspect lines to all. You can do this the same place you generated this chart under "extended chart selection".
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 02-20-2014, 08:45 PM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Hi---
Thanks Mdinaz---I posted the updated chart here. I see that my Eros is conjunct my Mars, my Ceres is conjunct my 7th, and Vesta is conjunct my Saturn and trine my Mars?

Melisa
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 02-20-2014, 08:55 PM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Here is the chart Mindaz requested....
Attached Images
File Type: gif chart transitis Feb 20 2014.gif (55.8 KB, 13 views)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 02-20-2014, 09:31 PM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Hi---
Melleoscorp wrote in part---
You have Pluto oppose Chiron---Pluto rules lowest point in your chart---IC---aggression to the point of deadly encounters? more than lust, sexual abuse is about power/control. Pluto all over it.

======Thanks for the reply. Yes, and with Pluto ruling my 4th, that would fit with abuse by early childhood family. Also Chiron is in the 7th, the wounding (and future healing) being in the area of interpersonal relations.

--Krewster wrote in part:

---Jup triangulates the Mars-Moon oppo with octile family aspects from the western hemisphere while Pluto does similar from the eastern hemisphere with semi-octile family aspects and, therefore, Jup and Pluto are automatically "red" aspected, creating an asymetrical "red" Kite among Mars-Moon-Jup-Pluto

Ven's aspects might be relevant (i.e., a triangle with Mars and Uran composed of undecile family aspects).

---Thank you. I read that an octile (semi-square) means Agitation and stress. Your efforts are stifled by outer events. These problems can show the weaknesses in how the planets are working together. So Jupiter being in octile to the Moon, which is opposing Mars----my reading would be that overdoing and expansion is agitating and harming my emotions and sexuality ( with the latter 2 being at odds, with the opposition). I am at a loss at what the red Kite indicates?
Re: you asked about the undecile (in my case Venus, Mars, Uranus) ----The basic principle of the Undecile Series of aspects is the need for a capacity for reconciling opposites or dualities; and, when handled well, the development of such a capacity. Yet the undeciles cause a tendency to react strongly, even excessively, to ambiguous or double-bind situations, either with excessive enthusiasm or excessive opposition. Strong undeciles present in your chart bring the possibility that, when confronted by such situations, you plunge ahead on one side or the other, rather than seek to avoid or resolve the conflict. ---------------this describes the Ven in Cancer undecile the Uran in Leo, with the Venus in Cancer sextile Mars, and the Mars loosely (9 degrees) square the Uranus.......the latter could partially highlight being sexually abused---tension from an erratic or mentally unstable person, and Uranus undecile my Venus, a sudden, erratic set of events which up until now I had been trying to avoid.......currently Uranus transit is exactly undecile my Mars---maybe in Uranus fashion suddenly bringing all this to awareness in the area of sexuality---combined with transiting Mercury conjunct my 7th---mental awareness of relationship issues.
Thank you
Melisa
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 02-20-2014, 10:18 PM
mdinaz's Avatar
mdinaz mdinaz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,379
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by melisa View Post
Here is the chart Mindaz requested....
Not to be a pain but there is no Vertex in the chart as requested. I find it to be a very important point when looking into questions such as these. I have an idea of the problem but I need as much info as possible ...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 02-21-2014, 12:02 AM
Krewster Krewster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 808
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Hi Melisa,
With the Pluto "red" triangulation of the Moon oppo Mars being a little loose orbed, it may be more rewarding to focus first on Jup's triangulation from the western hemisphere and second on Pluto's "red" aspect to Jup as adding unstable intensity (the label "Kite" having graspable significance primarily for hightening awareness that all its four points are affected by transits or synastry when any single point is by a 2, 4, 8 or 16-denominatored transiting or synastric aspect).
Whether the Jup octile effect is conclusively wrapped up by your mentioned synthesis depends other factors (e.g, the counter/positive effects of the Sun's much tighter triangulation of the oppo and Jup's quadra-novile to Ven). For example, does the Jup 45 Moon indicate a boisterous style or overweight physique or is the Sun mitigating?
Re the undeciles, your self-labelling via that tight-orbed triangle may become muddied by trying to blend in a 5 degree loose sextile and a 9 degree loose square (e.g., you don't have both a square and an 11-denominatored aspect between Mars and Uran). I'll be able to help more when I can fill in the following blanks (trines flow and so you may be lucky/lazy; undeciles _______ so you may become ___________). Until then, your own reading and self-study may be the best source.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 02-21-2014, 05:35 AM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Hello Mdinaz----
U are right, I left out Vertex----Vertex is 14 Capricorn

----almost exactly conjunct Saturn

-----oppose Sun and Venus

-----trine Mars

-----sextile Moon

-----exac. semi-sextile Juno


Melisa
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 02-24-2014, 06:58 PM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Hi
Mdinaz I attached the more inclusive chart you asked for, plus Vertex is 14 Capricorn.

Greybeard wrote in part---
Study the 12th House (Repressed contents), which Moon rules....Moon keeps popping up in everything we look at; mother's role? The parental axis activated (brought to prominence) by Moon-Mars

----thank you for your thorough analysis. Yes the Moon is influential---I had an abusive mother. You wrote about the parental axis (4th and 10th houses?) activated by Moon-Mars......I also see that my Moon in Scorpio is near the 4th house cusp----early family and mother had a strong influence on me. I hope my Neptune conjuncting the Moon can be a healing influence.
----Re: the 12th house, I see that it is ruled by Cancer (mother and family influences on psychological issues and repressed contents?) and Uranus (eccentric influences) is there.....that fits. Also the ruler of the 12th is in the 3rd (siblings), in Scorpio (psychological transformation) and opposes Mars, square Uranus (the T square you wrote about). It also is conjunct Neptune...this sounds like a connection with mother---moon, erratic inconsistency---Uranus--- and psychological influences (Neptune).

Melisa
Attached Images
File Type: gif chart transitis Feb 20 2014.gif (55.8 KB, 6 views)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 02-25-2014, 09:09 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Translate the symbols into terms of real life.

If you will do that (it takes time, work) you will see the picture.

Do not ignore rulerships. They are always of first importance.

You are inexperienced. Try removing all those asteroids from your chart, reduce it to ten planets. Keep things simple at first, add other things in as you develop understanding and skill.

Mars is Cutting Planet of a Locomotive Pattern. He affects every aspect of your life. Mars shows how you "meet life." So study Mars. (Study the locomotive pattern...it has meaning and describes your fundamental psychological structure, the pattern of temperament, how you approach life).

First, what does Mars as a "stand alone" symbol represent? You must study each planet as a symbol -- learn the significance of each planet -- before you attempt to read a chart. Same goes for signs, houses, aspects.

Mars (and all other planets) "rules" things. "Rules" means that the thing or quality is "of the nature of Mars." Here are some of the rulerships of Mars: Thorns on a rosebush, a backyard barbecue grill, a jet plane breaking the sound barrier, diaper rash, a trumpet solo by Wynton Marsallis, a prospector with his donkey exploring uncharted territory, an angry mother bear.

Mars is Initiative...getting things started (it's the starter on a car), Emergence (the plant sprouting from the seed and breaking forth into the sunlight), Raw Energy (it can be latent or active), Competitiveness and Combativeness (includes resistance to external pressures), Anger and Passions in all forms, the Spirit of Independence (ability to stand on your own, self-reliance), etc.

Any planet manifests ALL of its potentials at one time or another, exhibits all of its qualities (often simultaneously) when they are stimulated to action.

Now Mars is very powerful in your chart. You meet things energetically, adventurously, aggressively.....BUT

Mars is in his Debility --- the sign of Taurus. Taurus modifies the way Mars expresses his inherent nature, his essential qualities. And Taurus restrains the Martial energy. Taurus is concentrative....if we are talking about Mars as anger, then we see repressed anger that builds up and is held in until it reaches a critical point, then explodes violently. Grudges are held and ruminated. Initiative is impeded, because Taurus is slow to get moving. And so on.

While studying "Mars in Taurus", we must look at Venus, who is lord of Taurus. She "disposes" the sign and what is in it, and the affairs of any house with Taurus on its cusp. And in your chart Venus is in Cancer, is combust, and is in partile opposition to Saturn (Here you have to make a detour and study Venus, who disposes Mars.) Mars in Taurus is not the same in every chart -- How Mars in Taurus will act depends on what Venus is doing.

Every experienced astrologer on this forum says....over and over again....You must read the chart as a whole. Everything affects everything else. Always.

Looking at your chart in particular....I take Mars as preeminent. So I will focus on Mars as a point of beginning. But looking at Mars will take me to Venus and Sun, to Moon, to Uranus...to the whole chart.

Mars opposes Moon. Moon is in her fall, and is disposed by Mars. Anger (Mars) stands against Mother (Moon). There is direct conflict (the opposition aspect). Moon rules 12th (repressed contents, self-defeating actions and tendencies)...emotions (Moon, Cancer) are held in, unrecogniized, which causes unconsciously (12th, Cancer, Moon) directed behaviors leading to frustration (self-defeating). The two planets are angular, therefore prominent, visible, highly active and potent in the life. And so on. Being angular, the conflict with the mother tends to dominate consciousness and life choices. Besides which, the aspect involves Mars, who is preeminent. And the Moon, as we noted, pops up everywhere....she is highly influential, underscored by her rulership of Sun.

Now the challenge is to translate all of this into terms of real life, to give it life. And this takes us back to learning -- understanding deeply -- the meaning of the symbols. Not so easy. Spock just posted to a thread, and he says he's been studying astrology since 1972 (same year I began) and has changed his point of view many times...part of learning, of developing understanding. So have I. And so will you. Astrology is not going to answer all your questions....there are too many questions, too many answers.

Sun and Venus are both in Cancer, sign of "family". Venus there tends to produce very close and strong ties to the family, which may be helpful ties or may hinder. She rules Mars, who in one view is independence and self-reliance. But Venus is combust (bound and consumed by Sun) and is also in opposition to Saturn (a combination that tends to equate love with duty). Sun and Saturn are both father symbols. So it isn't just mother, it's parents and family. So the drive symbolized by Mars toward independence and self-reliance is hobbled by this powerful attachment to family issues...largely rooted in a sense of duty or obligation. And then Moon, who besides symbolizing Mother also represents our feelings, rules the 12th House where things get swept under the rug. And the independence thing is reiterated by Uranus -- self-willed, autocratic -- at the Ascendant and the focal point of a powerful T-square.

So there is a thumbnail of a very fundamental situation in your life. The urge to become an independent individual is thwarted by family issues. Does that ring a bell?

Last edited by greybeard; 02-25-2014 at 09:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Useful Post:
demetraceres (02-26-2014), kbell (04-11-2014)
  #14  
Unread 03-01-2014, 10:49 PM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Hi
Krewster wrote "With the Pluto "red" triangulation of the Moon oppo Mars being a little loose orbed, it may be more rewarding to focus first on Jup's triangulation from the western hemisphere and second on Pluto's "red" aspect to Jup as adding unstable intensity (the label "Kite" having graspable significance primarily for hightening awareness that all its four points are affected by transits or synastry when any single point is by a 2, 4, 8 or 16-denominatored transiting or synastric aspect).
Whether the Jup octile effect is conclusively wrapped up by your mentioned synthesis depends other factors (e.g, the counter/positive effects of the Sun's much tighter triangulation of the oppo and Jup's quadra-novile to Ven). For example, does the Jup 45 Moon indicate a boisterous style or overweight physique or is the Sun mitigating?"
-----Not sure when you mention Kite if it refers to my chart-----Kite meaning a grand trine with a fourth planet sextiling/trining each of the 3 planets....as I look at my chart I only see one grand trine and it's loose -Mars, Saturn, Pluto.
I see the Jupiter octile Moon you pointed out----no, in my case I'm not overweight or boisterous....perhaps the Saturn sextile Moon in Scorpio limits any boisterous tendency? I would love to utilize the octile to boost my Moon emotions with Jupiter freedom and happiness!
Thanks
Melisa
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 03-01-2014, 11:22 PM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Greybeard wrote----(I responded throughout)
Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

Mars is Cutting Planet of a Locomotive Pattern. He affects every aspect of your life. Mars shows how you "meet life." So study Mars.
While studying "Mars in Taurus", we must look at Venus, who is lord of Taurus. She "disposes" the sign and what is in it, and the affairs of any house with Taurus on its cusp. And in your chart Venus is in Cancer

=====Yes, and I also see that Venus is connected to Mars directly via a sextile. And both have aspects to the Sun and to Saturn (male/father influences on sexuality/love life).

------Re: Mars as cutting planet, I see that it is opposing the 4th house of family ( I had anger towards family), opposing the Moon and Neptune (mother and psychological influences affected sexuality). It's also the highest planet in the chart. I hope I can harness the Pluto and Saturn trines to Mars to heal psychologically.

"Mars opposes Moon. Moon is in her fall, and is disposed by Mars. Anger (Mars) stands against Mother (Moon). There is direct conflict (the opposition aspect). Moon rules 12th (repressed contents, self-defeating actions and tendencies)...emotions (Moon, Cancer) are held in, unrecogniized, which causes unconsciously (12th, Cancer, Moon) directed behaviors leading to frustration (self-defeating). The two planets are angular, Being angular, the conflict with the mother tends to dominate consciousness and life choices. "

-----Yes very true. And though she isn't one of those who sexually abused me (as far as I know), her constant emotional/verbal abuse reinforced and aggravated the sexual abuse.



Sun and Venus are both in Cancer, sign of "family". Venus there tends to produce very close and strong ties to the family, which may be helpful ties or may hinder. She rules Mars, who in one view is independence and self-reliance. But Venus is combust (bound and consumed by Sun) and is also in opposition to Saturn (a combination that tends to equate love with duty). Sun and Saturn are both father symbols. So it isn't just mother, it's parents and family. So the drive symbolized by Mars toward independence and self-reliance is hobbled by this powerful attachment to family issues...largely rooted in a sense of duty or obligation. And then Moon, who besides symbolizing Mother also represents our feelings, rules the 12th House where things get swept under the rug. And the independence thing is reiterated by Uranus -- self-willed, autocratic -- at the Ascendant and the focal point of a powerful T-square.So there is a thumbnail of a very fundamental situation in your life. The urge to become an independent individual is thwarted by family issues. Does that ring a bell?
------Yes it does. Memories of family issues (abuse, rivalry, attacks, substance abuse, lack of support, lies, etc.) are painful. Again, all that compounded the painful feelings re: sex abuse. I'm glad you pointed out the fact that the family ties might not be helpful ties! I was always amazed when people describe a Cancerian with Sun oppose Saturn, and Moon near the 4th as so family-oriented. In reality, the ties are painful and I avoided my family! But they are ties nonetheless, as you pointed out.
----Also related to the chart and sexual abuse, I see that the 8th house related to sex (empty) has its ruler (Neptune) square Mercury (affecting the mind) and opposing Mars (sexuality).
Thank you
Melisa
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 03-04-2014, 03:36 PM
SunW SunW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 123
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by melisa View Post
Hi

Yes the Moon is influential---I had an abusive mother.
What I think about your chart is that probably your mother was in a competition with you, concerning beauty and femininity. Is that so?

Was there a history of some sort of violence in your father's family? This might include his parents or grandparents.

You ask this question at the time whan your transiting Saturn is in the 4th house, the house of father and your transiting Pluto is in the 5th house, the house of father.

So, I guess there is something related to your father's family that might go back to your grandparents or great grandparents.

Last edited by SunW; 03-04-2014 at 03:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 03-04-2014, 07:26 PM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Hi
Thank u Sun, yes my mother and I were in competition, you are correct....no violence on father's side as far as I know, yet his parents and grandparents were in a "Mars" oriented physically aggressive profession!
I am analysing my Mars more deeply----the opposition from Neptune can lead to victimization and the opposition from Moon is re: mother abuse and emotional issues...I hope to harness the 45 degree aspect moon to Jupiter (semi-square) to bring about some lightness, joy and learning re: my emotions in the area of sex abuse
Melisa
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 03-04-2014, 11:32 PM
SunW SunW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 123
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by melisa View Post

Hi
Thank u Sun, yes my mother and I were in competition, you are correct....no violence on father's side as far as I know, yet his parents and grandparents were in a "Mars" oriented physically aggressive profession!
The Moon in Scorpio gives problems with a person's mother. The Moon as a ruler of the 12th house also gives problems. The Moon in conjunction with Neptune, on the other hand, gives (it might be unconscious) a desire for union with the mother and difficulty to leave your mother and to be emotionally separate from her.

Tracy Marks writes about the twelth house Moon or the Moon as a ruler of the twelfth house in her book Your Secret Self - Illuminating the Mysteries of the Twelfth House:

"Perhaps because of traumatic experiences as a child, in which you experienced unbearable helplessness, need, and dependency in relationship to a parent who could not sensitively respond, you learned to turn to yourself early in life and to establish your self-suffficiency.
...you never felt allowed to be a child. Perhaps your mother was emotionally a child herself...
Often a twelfth house Moon signifies a failure in the early attachment bond with the mother..."


Were there cases of abuse of femininity in your mother's family that might inculde also great grandparents? Were there nuns in her family? Because of the Uranus I wonder if something unexpected had happened to a woman from her family, that might be connected to home, relationships or just anything related to femininity? Was anyone forbidden to marry the person he or she wanted?

Last edited by SunW; 03-04-2014 at 11:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 03-05-2014, 06:12 PM
mdinaz's Avatar
mdinaz mdinaz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,379
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Pluto is in the 12th close to the ASC, but opposite Chiron on the DSC. Chiron is childhood hurts and deep soul wounds, which is opposing Pluto in the 12th - the house of shame and secrets. Pluto is very close to the ASC so control over the outside world is very important to you, but with the Chiron opposition, the loss of control is devastating. With Chiron on the DSC, this affects every relationship you have with anyone - intimate, close friendships, employers-employees, etc. Chiron is also square the MC close so your entire world view and your position in life is negatively impacted. Pluto is in sextile to dark moon Lilith again highlighting the "taboo" and "secret" nature of this facet of your life.
Vesta is conjunct your Saturn - Vesta is where we input our thoughts and beliefs into the world for manifestation as our reality - and with Saturn, everything that is put in is dark - struggles, obstacles, problems. Saturn is trine the node so this is part of your life path - learning to overcome these major struggles and understand that "you" are not "what happens to you", in the sense that they define you. They ARE "you" in the fact that YOU create them, with your thoughts and beliefs, and that this was a destined life path for yourself that you chose to have as human experiences. But you can choose to not identify these experiences as being the sum core of you, but rather something that simply occurred for you to experience spiritual and emotional growth. In other words, nothing "happens to you", no one is a random victim.
Your vertex is directly opposite your Mercury, so you are really going to have to adjust your thinking to get out of this, and stop over-thinking about the incidents themselves. The only moment that really matters is the present moment; the past and future do not exist except in our minds. Since the Vertex is where our manifestations that we create come into the physical world, they directly impact what you think about and perceive. If you think more and more negative things, then this is what you put back into the Universe for manifestation. This is true for everyone but for you it is doubly important, as it is a mirror that has been laser aligned to perfection right back at your forehead.
Pallas is trine your Node in the 5th house, so this is a good place to start. Pallas is where we can strategize, come up with solutions, and find ways around obstacles. It is in Capricorn so you can use this Saturn energy to prioritize, organize, and discipline yourself to a plan to change your thinking and world view. It is also loose sesquiquadrate your Pluto so while all this change will be uncomfortable, it will be spiritually beneficial in the long run.
As I have with others, I think you should read Louise Hay's book "you can heal your life" at this time, as well as Eckhart Tolle's book "A new earth". This is precisely the message you need to be getting at this time.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mdinaz For This Useful Post:
demetraceres (03-06-2014)
  #20  
Unread 03-06-2014, 02:06 PM
demetraceres demetraceres is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 295
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

I find this theme very inspiring since I can draw many parallels to my traumatic life events and to some positions in my own natal chart. I would like to add something to this insightful writing, hoping it does not interfere too much.

I am writing from my own experiences. When traumatical events occur very early in life and are overhelming, they start to live their own life as some kind of parasite inside the psyche.

And when you experience the pain and terror over and over again and try to stop it with simple act of decision, you can only repress it again, you don't overcome it. Over-thinking about the incidents can't simply stop because of native's decision.

You have to go through very painful emotional and energetic process in which every detail has to be remembered and emotionally experienced again. This is incredibly hard, but can release much of the stollen power.

I just wanted to say - the problem of abuse is the question of energy flow, not of rational understanding.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 03-14-2014, 12:25 AM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Hi
Yes, Demetraceres, it will be an emotional recovery, feeling the feelings of the traumas. Thanks for the insight.
SunW wrote

Were there cases of abuse of femininity in your mother's family that might inculde also great grandparents? Were there nuns in her family? Because of the Uranus I wonder if something unexpected had happened to a woman from her family, that might be connected to home, relationships or just anything related to femininity? Was anyone forbidden to marry the person he or she wanted?

----Good analysis! Mother and her mother had a conflictual relationship. There was alcoholism and personality disorders. Her mother in law didn't want her to marry my father at first. She threw her traumas onto me, and with my Moon conjunct Neptune, I absorbed them....hopefully this same placement can help me heal!

Thank you
Melisa
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 03-14-2014, 12:55 AM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Hi
Mdinaz wrote---- I responded throughout======

Pluto is very close to the ASC so control over the outside world is very important to you, but with the Chiron opposition, the loss of control is devastating. With Chiron on the DSC, this affects every relationship you have with anyone - intimate, close friendships, employers-employees, etc.Pluto is in sextile to dark moon Lilith again highlighting the "taboo" and "secret" nature of this facet of your life.
------True, plus the fact that it's Pluto that is opposing Chiron connects these problems with sexuality and psychology (i.e. sex abuse history)

Vesta is conjunct your Saturn - Vesta is where we input our thoughts and beliefs into the world for manifestation as our reality - and with Saturn, everything that is put in is dark - struggles, obstacles, problems. Saturn is trine the node so this is part of your life path - learning to overcome these major struggles and understand that "you" are not "what happens to you", in the sense that they define you. They ARE "you" in the fact that YOU create them, with your thoughts and beliefs, and that this was a destined life path for yourself that you chose to have as human experiences. But you can choose to not identify these experiences as being the sum core of you, but rather something that simply occurred for you to experience spiritual and emotional growth. In other words, nothing "happens to you", no one is a random victim.
-----True, I put out the energy of having been non-assertive, vulnerable, and too trusting stemming from mother's emotional and verbal abuse-----predators may have sensed that in me.

Your vertex is directly opposite your Mercury, so you are really going to have to adjust your thinking to get out of this, and stop over-thinking about the incidents themselves.
-----Vertex is 14 Capricorn, Mercury is 0 Leo....I do have a tendency to obsess. I thought Vertex is like another 7th house, in that it describes relationships----mine is conjunct Saturn, sextile Moon and oppose Sun/Venus......relations are affected by Mother and Father, certainly emotional for me, yet unhappy and restricted, limited and distant which I feel unhappy about

Pallas is trine your Node in the 5th house, so this is a good place to start. Pallas is where we can strategize, come up with solutions, and find ways around obstacles. It is in Capricorn so you can use this Saturn energy to prioritize, organize, and discipline yourself to a plan to change your thinking and world view. It is also loose sesquiquadrate your Pluto so while all this change will be uncomfortable, it will be spiritually beneficial in the long run.
------I like that! It takes a lot of discipline to change my thoughts, and also to use that Saturn energy to focus on reality and honesty. With all the Saturn and Pluto aspects, I am used to uncomfortable change. I will use your insights in my journey to recovery!
Thank you
Melisa
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Unread 03-14-2014, 04:49 AM
mdinaz's Avatar
mdinaz mdinaz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,379
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by melisa View Post
Your vertex is directly opposite your Mercury, so you are really going to have to adjust your thinking to get out of this, and stop over-thinking about the incidents themselves.
-----Vertex is 14 Capricorn, Mercury is 0 Leo....I do have a tendency to obsess. I thought Vertex is like another 7th house, in that it describes relationships----mine is conjunct Saturn, sextile Moon and oppose Sun/Venus......relations are affected by Mother and Father, certainly emotional for me, yet unhappy and restricted, limited and distant which I feel unhappy about
I said "mercury opposing Vertex" - should have been "venus opposing your Vertex". With Venus in Cancer, self-worth and self-esteem are closely tied to your need to be needed, to be of value to others, while at the same time having this same closeness and security with others and yourself. Because Venus is opposing Saturn (which is conjunct the Vertex), your life experiences continually reflect the opposite - you always attract people who do NOT make you feel good about yourself, who wreck your self-esteem and make you feel worth less. Because Vesta is right there also, this creates a very negative feed back loop where every bad experience is fed right back in, resulting in identical situations happening over and over. The key to breaking the cycle is realizing that YOU create it. Because they are all in Capricorn (where Saturn rules), it will take study, planning and discipline to break the cycle. The books I recommended will teach you to do this. My bad on getting Merc/Venus mixed up on the chart since the Vertex wasn't displayed.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 03-14-2014, 09:25 PM
melisa melisa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 365
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

Hi
Thank you Mdinaz---my mistake-- Vertex was missing from the chart. That is a very accurate analysis---thank you for the time and the insight. Eckard Tolle is a very compassionate an helpful writer as is Louise Hay.
I would tend to gravitate towards ill people or substance abusers, try to have them "depend on me" to feel needed as you wrote about my Venus in Cancer oppose Sat and Vertex...it backfires because they are unavailable and nasty like my late mother...then I resent them and displace the anger re: mother towards them instead--- the "new" abusive mother.....
I hadn't realized that I am in fact creating and participating in their abusive dance----I will channel Saturn's energy and use discipline and study to overcome this, instead of blaming them and expecting them to change.

Thank you

Melisa
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Unread 04-04-2014, 08:28 PM
Cascada Cascada is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 475
Re: History of sexual abuse in my chart?

I don't know if this helps but I've had some sexual abuse in my past (childhood and teenage years). I also have Scorpio on the 4th house cusp like you, with Mars conjunct the IC and placed in the 4th, along with Pluto and Mercury. My Dejanira is conjunct my Pluto and my North Node. My Nessus is conjunct my Mars and IC. Child asteroid is conjunct my Nessus/Mars/IC, too. My Chiron is in the 1st, semisquare Sun, sesquiquadrate Neptune/Uranus, square Dejanira and NN.
__________________

Last edited by Cascada; 04-04-2014 at 08:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
abuse, chart, history, sexual

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.