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Degree Symbols Discuss your experiences with all symbol systems based on astrological degrees in the chart (i.e., Sabian Symbols, Kozminsky Symbols, etc.): the symbols for the transiting Sun and Moon and the events of your life, the symbols of your natal chart...


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Unread 12-11-2008, 02:10 PM
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Birth chart of Jesus?

Please note: I apologize for having deleted most of this thread as it was in original form. At the time I did so I was determined to leave this forum and to never return and there were, at the time, too many trolls and as I no longer wanted to post at this forum and felt my energies would be better served elsewhere I wasn't going to return here solely to deal with them, thanks...piercethevale, aka Dave Mastry, aka Devananda

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__________________________________________________ ___________

Greetings.
Below is an image of a copy of the natal chart that I contend is that of Yeshu'a ben David aka Jesus of Nazareth.
It is by the date that Edgar Cayce gave as the date of birth and is the only date that Edgar Cayce ever gave as the date of birth. I've argued with at least 4 dozen of more challenges to that fact in the last ten years and if you wish to contest that He gave some other date I suggest that you reread the source material, i.e the specific reading that Edgar gave in which you believe he gave a different date, or another date in addition to the one I have used, because Edgar didn't. Reread it a third time a fourth time, whatever.... it doesn't change a thing. You are misunderstanding what Edgar stated and most likely are having a hard time understanding the stilted manner of speaking he had used when in trance.

Edgar was once asked, while He was in a trance if He could speak in a more colloquial manner so as to be better understood. Edgar's reply was "Better ye thy understanding."
Now, do you understand what I'm getting at here?


I will be in the process of revising this thread and restoring an original introduction here in this first post... as it once had but I stupidly deleted without thinking the whole thing through.

The chart below is the original chart. It is dated September 22, 2010, but it is true to the original first chart ever produced on November 7, 2004.

Sometime not long after I made this chart below, at astrodienst, they started changing the computer program on a continuous basis. It was only noticeable for dates very distant in the past. ... particularly the date I produced the chart for, i.e. April 2 in the year 3 A.D. Gregorian calendar. Edgar's actual words were "He was born on the nineteenth day of March. By the Julian Calendar, it was in the year Four. From the Hebrew (or Mosaic) Calendar, it was in the year eighteen hundred and ninety-nine." reading # 587

So why am I using the year 3? Because there were two ways of reckoning what the first year was. Some said (and still do) it to be the week after his birth when New Years Day began, which to them was January 1st (as most everyone took the Church's word for it that December 25th was the correct date at that time) others claim that the first year is the year He was born in regardless of how late in the year it was.
But the real trick here is knowing that in those days most all of the Roman citizenry, and the Roman officials, considered April 1st as the first day of a New Year. The gov't calendar used a fiscal year and that held that New Years Day was January 1st, I believe..or it may have been a different date in Jan., the point is that the one day all the people, in general, observed and held their New Years festivities by ...and so did all the politicians of Rome, as no one wants to be left out of a good party... was April 1st.

So because the Gregorian Calendar must add a day every new century that is divisible by 4, When Pope Gregory started his Calendar it was 1582 and at the time of the Popes' action March 19th, in the year 3 A.D., was then progressed to March 31, 3 A.D.
In the year 1600 another day was added making it April 1st and by the common Roman Julian Calendar that observed April 1st as the first day of a New Year, His birth could, from that day forward, be said to have actually occurred in the 4th year by the Julian Calendar as it was commonly observed among the peoples of Rome.

When I first began this project, in 2001, I was unaware of these facts and also ignorant of the fact that another day had to be added as of the year 2000, and that March 19th by the Julian Calendar was from then on April 2nd. It wasn't until 2003 that I became aware of these facts. In the Year 2400 the date will change to April 3rd.


Astrodienst has "adjusted'' something numerous times now since 2004. I have printed charts from as far back as 2004 and 2005 and the oldest that remains in my computer files is from November 2009. Sometime in 2012 astrodienst had tweaked the figures a little bit as to where the Sun, Merc. and Venus had added 02", the Moon 21", Mars 11" and Jupiter 01" and Uranus, Neptune and Pluto remained the same. I have a chart from July 2012 that shows all that... but it never effected anything that which had given me cause to claim it to be the natal birth chart of Yeshu'a. They had been using a program they got from JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena California) which is so highly accurate that one can calculate exactly where a satellite must be in ten years and so many months, days and right down to the moment it needs to be withing "X" amount of miles from the surface of one of Neptune's Moons. Although the creator of the program did allow a certain amount of "fudge factor " for the adjustment of some of the planets and the luminaries and as for Pluto it was given the biggest allowance and I figure that was for the reason it still hadn't been observed long enough by 1992, when the program was created (I believe that is the correct year...it could be give or take a year or two. That specific info is available on the internet if you are that interested in precise facts regarding that issue. I'm trying to expedite this process of restoring a workable and informative intro to the thread and it isn't that important to spend the half hour or so it would take to retrieve it.) The allowance Pluto was given as to adding as much as up to, or as much as less than, but no more or less than, was given as 00* 01' 59".

In the chart below you will notice that Pluto was given to be at 00* Libra 58' 52". Astrodienst claims it started using an entirely new computer ephemeris sometime in either late 2012 or in 2013, I forget exactly when, and that this new program is based on a more recent JPL computer program and, also, that Pluto is still allowed the exact same amount of adjustment.
Well, astrodienst did adjust Pluto, they added the maximum allowance of 00* 01' 59" to it's position and now list it at 01* Libra 00' 51" which messes with my explanation as it is essential that Pluto was in the 1st degree of Libra and not the 2nd as they presently have it. One might think that a planet moved a mere 00* 01 59" isn't really very much but considering how far Pluto is from the Sun and the full length of one complete orbit of Pluto around the Sun it amounts to (and I had the exact figures ...or as close as I could calculate that distance, but can't find them right at this moment... let me just say that it was in the tens of millions of miles and may have in fact been in the hundreds of millions of miles... I'll get that exact, or as close as I can possibly be to exact, figure here at a later date.) an enormous amount of miles... so much in a distance that if the Earth were moved as much toward the Sun this planet would be a ball of charcoal.

I made the world aware of this chart on Dec 22, 2005 on a nationally broadcast radio program. "The Rick Barber" program which used to air on KOA A.M. out of Denver, Colorado. I was the invited guest that night and spoke for an hour about the chart. The very next convention of the I.A.U. Pluto was demoted to less than planetary status in what has to be one of the most obvious desperate, clandestine, and underhanded moves ever pulled by any group so as to ensure just enough votes to achieve their purpose. If you read an accounting of the proceedings of Pluto's demotion by the I.A.U. you can learn of the details and easily see that something was far amiss.

Why? Well there are a number of astronomers that have been making some serious coin with their explanations for the Star of Bethlehem, the astronomer Dr. Molnar comes immediately to mind. Most everyone of them attributes it to that Stellium in, when was it? 6 or 7 B.C.? I wrote Dr. Molnar and told him that the chart made no astrological sense as to a person such as Yeshu'a/Jesus was said to have been. His reply to me was that I didn't understand "Historiography".
I wrote that I understood something far more reliable than questionable 'Historiography" in that I understood the universal symbolism of Astrology.
...and least not forget that the Swiss have been providing free personal bodyguards to the Pope for centuries.
The chart demonstrates that He was born a man, a condition of the universe, but it also demonstrates how and why He became whom he did become, that is a totally spiritually evolved human being that became the next higher order of entity... as Pluto conjunct the Ascendant and the Ascendant being the 1st degree of Libra which has the Sabian Symbol representing a perfect archetype. He became One with the Christ as the Gnostic Christians will say... We are all Sons and Daughters of God and just like Yeshu'a ben David our birth chart is our Divine Blueprint...You are a Divine creation of the Universe, just as was the 'Man from Nazareth', as was Ram of India before him, as was the Buddha et al.

The Birth Chart of Yeshu'a ben David aka Jesus of Nazareth



In Dane Rudhyar's book "An Astrological Mandala". Rudhyar goes on to explain the following. The "Cross", that is the axis, formed by the horizon and the meridian of one's birth chart, create four points, and these four points, he interprets, are the "WHAT", "WHERE-TO", "HOW" and "WHY" of one's being. I would like to add here that as for, "WHERE-TO" To', I sometimes re-interpret as either "WHAT-TO" or "WHOM-TO". Rudhyar also wrote, inferring, that an axis of perfect symmetry, i.e., 90 between all four axis points that include the four points of the Zodiac, Aries Libra, Cancer and Capricorn, all in the first degree, would have been involved in the birth chart of Yeshua of Nazareth.

Those four degrees of the Zodiac are associated with the following Sabian Symbols as described by Dane in his book thus...

Aries 1, "A Woman Just Risen From The Sea, A Seal Is Embracing Her. Keynote: Emergence of new forms and of the potentiality of consciousness." (Keywords) "IMPULSE TO BE."

Rudhyar infered that Aries 01* would be the Ascendant found on the birth chart of Jesus/Yeshu'a. So, thus naturally, the infered Descendant is Libra 01*
[ibid.]

Libra 1 "In A Collection Of Perfect Specimens Of Many Biological Forms, A Butterfly Displays The Beauty Of Its Wings, Its Body Impaled By A Fine Dart. Keynote: The immortal archetypal reality that a perfect and dedicated life reveals."

Dane wrote the following as part of the interpretation: [ibid.]
"...the original notation of what the clairvoyant had seen indicated 'a butterfly made perfect by a dart through it', suggesting a process of perfection through sacrifice."

Dane concluded his interpretation with the following words: [ibid.]
"This is the symbolical Transfiguration at the Mount of Transfiguration, Jesus the Son of Man was impaled by the ray of the divine light, making him a son of God. It was at this very moment that he learned of the crucifixion awaiting him.Thus the merely human individual is [Rudhyars keywords] MADE SACRED becoming the pure embodiment of an archetype."

The other half of the birth chart axis, the line created by the nadir and the mid-haven, the "HOW" and "WHY" of the birth chart was proposed, by Rudhyar, to consist of the first degree of Capricorn and the first degree of Cancer. Rudhyar, in his book "An Astrological Mandala" infers that first degree of Cancer is the degree of the zodiac that is the Nadir of the birth chart of Jesus. The description for the first degree of Cancer is as follows [ibid.]:
"On A Ship, The Sailors Lower An Old Flag And Raise A New One. Keynote: A radical change of allegiance exteriorized in a symbolical act: a point of no return." [Rudhyar's keyword] "REORIENTATION"

Rudhyar was thus proposing that the HOW of Jesus' life mission would be accomplished by becoming the new symbol of allegiance.

For the mid-haven Rudhyar proposed the first degree of Capricorn [ibid.]. "An Indian Chief Claims Power From The Assembled Tribe. Keynote: The power and responsibility implied in any claim for leadership." ...and Dane finished his summary on this symbol by writing: ". It refers to the capacity latent in every individual to claim and assume AUTHORITY in a vital group-situation."

Thus Rudhyar proposed, even though he may have thought differently privately, that the axis of Jesus's birth chart would show his "WHO" to be just another life form emerging into this world [i.e. Aries 1*], His "WHERE-TO", i.e. what he was to become, the perfect form of man [i.e. Libra 1*]. The true birth chart that has been produced however shows, as Cayce and many other spiritual teachers have taught, that Jesus was born the perfect form of man, and through his life by example, he demonstrated the path to the next step in spiritual/physical evolution, a higher, more spiritually evolved life form. I also believe that when Pluto [the planet of 'Transformation"] is found exactly conjunct the ascendant, transformation [i.e. the transition from "WHO" to "WHOM-TO"] is assured somehow or, at the very least, the catalyst is brought to bear on the individual in question. As for the other half of the axis. It's apparent that Rudhyar proposed that how Jesus was to accomplish his mission, his dharma, was by becoming the new symbol or icon of allegiance represented by, the flag the sailors are raising symbolically, the first degree of Cancer. And as for the "WHY" of Rudhyar's proposed chart for Jesus it was to establish leadership over various groups of belief. [Or the various sects of Judaism, monotheism and or remnant religions that had the Sun prayers at their most ancient core.] Whereas in the true birth chart, I propose, that is Yeshu'a's, this cause and purpose is the same only the position of the two degrees, at the nadir and the mid-haven, are switched.

This is due to an understanding, that came some time after my book was published, that the first degree in the process of transformation is actually Virgo 30* and it culminates with Libra 01*
That is to say, that the Theosophists, and their Esoteric Astrology, has it partially correct. The Zodiac should be followed in the opposite direction from that as is practiced by "Traditional" Astrologers and thus the Sabian Symbols represent a process of spiritual transformation when read in that clockwise direction around a chart that begins at Virgo 30*. What the Theosophists failed to realize is that the process begins at Virgo 30* and not Aries 01* but then, in their defense,. they never adopted the Sabian Symbols as presented and interpreted by Dane Rudhyar or even those as given by Marc Edmond Jones...at least not to my knowledge. [Those of Jones and Rudhyar are essentially the same. I do know that Rudhyar noticed a few that didn't seem to fit and contacted the clairvoyant, Elsie Wheeler, to find out if his suspicions were correct in that He believed Marc to have substituted a few to fit his own preconceived idea of what they would represent and ascertain the genuine symbolism if that was true and if they were still available. He was correct, Marc had altered a few and to his joy Dane learned that Miss Wheeler had the original notations of her descriptions of the symbols in her exact words that Marc had written down. I won't go into the details of what is written about what followed between Marc and Dane or what I deduced from "reading between the lines" of that account, just let it suffice to say that Dane was eventually given permission, by Mr Jones, to alter any that Dane saw fit to so as to make them more understandable by the general public. One can obtain a set of both those as originally given by Marc and a copy of Dane's work and compare them for your self if you are that interested or have any concerns. I believe that Marc disposed of the set He altered and issued them as Elsie actually gave description of them but I'm not certain of that. However, I do know Dane's background of studies in Jungian psychology, Vedic philosophy, Zen Buddhism and music {and that is but a partial list of what all, and whom, He had studied} prior to his studies of astrology I believe Dane to have been the most preeminently qualified person alive at the time to be the person that was to truly understand, interpret, and write about the Sabian Symbols as
re-ascertained by Elsie Wheeler and present them to the world. I have compared the two and have found Rudhyar's work to be vastly superior, as to those issued by Marc Edmond Jones, for the understanding and utilization when applied to astrology.
]

It has been traditionally accepted by astrologers that this evolutionary process, represented by the 360 Sabian symbols begins with the first degree of Aries, the emerging life form, and completes the cycle of 360 stages of transformation with the 30th degree of Pisces. The 30th degree of Pisces symbol is: [ibid.] "A Majestic Rock Formation Resembling A Face Is Idealized By A Boy Who Takes It As His Ideal Of Greatness, And As He Grows Up, Begins To Look Like It." Rudhyar's Keynote on this symbol: "The power of clearly visualized ideals to mold the life of the visualizer." Rudhyar's summation on this symbol: "This is the last stage of the last scene of the great ritual play of cyclic transformations. It brings to us a realization of the power of archetypes as factors conditioning life processes. Thus we could use as a final Keyword: Archetypalization."

In Rudhyar's book on the Sabian symbols, he inferred that the first degree of Aries will be found to be the ascendant on the birth chart of Jesus. Dane was thus stating that the "WHO" of the birth chart would be an emerging life form, and the "WHERE-TO" [the first degree of Libra] would be the perfect form of man.

If one were to meditate on this process for a moment and picture an emerging biological life form [as represented by the Sabian Symbol for the first degree of Aries] becoming, through the cyclic process of completing the following 359 degrees of the Zodiac, as symbolically represented by the 30th degree of Pisces. One understands that, what is represented by, this process is one of becoming more immersed in materiality, represented by the rock face in the symbol for the last degree of Pisces.

But what actually occurred, and the actual template of being, that Jesus was given, is the opposite. His "WHO" is the perfect form of man and his "WHERE-TO" the next emerging life form. A higher life form. The next step in spiritual evolution. I believe that there is another process through the Sabian symbols that begins with the thirtieth degree of Virgo and culminates with the first degree of Libra. The symbol for, which is: [ibid.] "Totally Intent Upon Completing An Immediate Task, A Man Is Deaf To Any Allurement." Rudhyar's Keynote: "The total concentration required for reaching any spiritual goal." Rudhyar's summation: "This is the culminating step. The decision that results from a myriad of small choices. Still, a shadow of hesitation can remain. Attention may be distracted from the Now by a voice from the past glamorizing some old memory. The outer doors of perception and thought must be closed, so the soul can complete its (Dane's very significant Keywords for this degree) CONQUEST OF ILLUSION."

Thus there are two ways of proceeding through the Sabian Symbols, the zodiac, [and maybe more] one beginning with the first degree of Aries and ending with the last degree of Pisces, becoming more immersed in the material, in Maya. The other process begins with the last degree of Virgo and thus, freeing oneself from the illusion, from materiality, from Maya, 'THE ILLUSION'. As Dane hinted in numerous books and articles. "The True Path of Discipleship begins in Virgo" It is the last degree of Virgo that is the first step...the beginning of "THE CONQUEST OF ILLUSION" this chart I propose as the correct birth chart for Yeshu'a has the Ascendant conjunct the first degree of Libra, and his Moon conjunct the last degree of Virgo, Yeshu'a demonstrates that he was here as the perfect form of man, becoming the next higher evolved life form, and conquering the illusion of Maya. This is possibly also another way of understanding and putting into context his statement. " I am the first and the last." The first degree of the process, i.e. Virgo 30*, [The Conquest of Illusion {Maya}], and the last degree of the process, i.e. Libra 01* [the Perfect Form {or Archetype} Of Man].

Using what is known as the 'day formula' for the Part of Fortune, as my tried and true and trusted Clairvoyant friend, Clarisse Conner, says is the only correct formula for the Part of Fortune regardless of the time of day. Thus the Part of Fortune derived from this chart is at 18 Pisces 17'. The symbol for which is [ibid.] "A Master Instructs His Disciple". What could be more appropriate of the 360 symbols that are to be found in the Zodiac, for the one to represent additionally 'HOW' The Master was to best achieve his mission or dharma?

The 12th House cusp, as my friend Suryakant's chart had shown me, represents the answer to the Worlds' problems as that person, whose chart it is, will see it and communicate it to the world. The 12th House cusp for this chart is 3 Virgo, 14 minutes, the fourth degree of Virgo, the symbol for which is [ibid.] "Black and White Children Play Together Happily". Rudhyar's Keyword for this symbol is "Brotherhood". Again, of the entire 360 symbols, none could be more appropriate for what Yeshu'a's consistent answer was in reference to the Worlds' problems.

The Part of Fortune derived from this chart (always use the diurnal formula...night births make no difference.) is at
18* Pisces 16' 07"... i.e. the 19th degree of Pisces. By Sabian Symbol we find what symbolically must be "put into play" in order to assure the most fortuitous circumstances in order to achieve the journey from "WHO" (the Asc.) to "WHERE-TO" (the Desc.)...to achieve that which is given symbolically as the Part of Destiny.

From Dane Rudhyar we get the answer (ibid.)

"PISCES 19: A MASTER INSTRUCTING HIS DISCIPLE.
KEYNOTE:
The transfer of power and knowledge which keeps the original spiritual and creative Impulse of the cycle active and undeviated.

The Hindu ideal of the sacred relationship between guru and chela (disciple) has of late become familiar to a vast number of young and not-so-young people. The doctrine of 'the Apostolic succession' in the Roman Catholic Church has a similar significance. The Power and archetypal knowledge released 'in the beginning' of any cycle (or at 'Creation') must be perpetuated until the very Last Day — the Omega state of which Teilhard de Chardin glowingly speaks. This Power is the 'self' of the cyclic manifestation, the unchanging Tone (AUM) of all existences within this cycle. It can be transmitted from master to disciple at the latter's 'Initiation'. It must be so transmitted for when the line of transmission (in Sanskrit, guruampara) is discontinued, the cyclic process begins to collapse in futility and spiritual darkness.

This fourth stage symbol gives us a clue to the supreme technique necessary for the continuation of all manifestations of power and spiritual understanding. The transmission is from person to person; it follows a general, unchanging pattern, yet it operates in terms of particular and individual circumstances. Keyword:
INVESTITURE."


Perfect...wouldn't you say?

The cusp of ones natal 12th House symbolically represents what your answer is to the greatest problem that world society faces as a whole... this natal chart has the 4th deg. of Virgo at that cusp.
(ibid.)

"VIRGO 4: BLACK AND WHITE CHILDREN PLAY TOGETHER HAPPILY.
KEYNOTE:
The overcoming of socio-cultural prejudices.

Freedom from all the forms, biases and idiosyncrasies of the particular culture and class in which one has been born and educated is a sine qua non of the consciousness truly 'on the Path', The ideal of universal brotherhood underlies all great spiritual teachings, for they all are like branches of the One Tree, Man, in his divine state. This does not mean there are no racial differences, but rather that these differences have a functional value in terms of the whole organism of Man — and of the planet Earth.

At this fourth stage the basic technique which applies to all truly spiritual progress is clearly stated. Every human being should be seen, approached and warmly met as a 'child of God', or in less religious terms as an exemplar of Man. Such a status gives to every social and interpersonal group the character of a
BROTHERHOOD."


Just absolutely awesome...in my humble opinion...

I wish to include another one of the Astrological Parts derived from this chart in this first post and hopefully it'll fit the limit on text per post.

The Part of Catastrophe is derived from the Formula Asc. + Uranus - Sun. In this chart we find that to be at 27* Virgo 03' 13". What has been discovered (or revealed as actually it was never lost... now was it?) that the "Catastrophe" revealed by the Sabian Symbol found for the degree of the Zodiac it is in is a necessary thing in ones life that will occur at some point. The advantage here in knowing what it is early enough in ones life is that "forewarned is forearmed". By knowing about it ahead of time one is given the opportunity to mitigate the damage... possibly avoid any real damage all together.

By Dane's wonderful tome we find that to be (ibid.)

"VIRGO 28: A BALDHEADED MAN WHO HAS SEIZED POWER.
KEYNOTE:
The sheer power of personality in times that call for decision.

Whether at the religious or at the socio-political and cultural level there comes a time when obsolescent patterns of order and cultural refinement have to be radically and relentlessly challenged. Catabolic personages emerge to seize power and dictate decisions that alter the structures of society; or within an individual life, an intense urge for cathartic changes mobilizes the will, and traumatic decisions are made. At such times, the issue has to be met and, ruthless as the power may appear, it must be accepted.

At this third stage of the thirty-sixth sequence we face the un-postponable necessity for decision and transformation. Existence is motion. No static formation, however beautiful and inspiring, can remain long unchallenged. Everything bows to
THE POWER OF THE WILL — divine, executively human, or Satanic."


As Dane so brilliantly interpreted (or was divinely guided...?) and wrote..."the un-postponable necessity for decision and transformation." it seems that there wasn't much opportunity to mitigate much for Yeshu'a's sake. He may have known just how very much it was a necessity and un-postponable and, possibly, Judas knew of this too.
It has been said by some that Judas was the most knowledgeable of all the disciples and that He understood why He had to "betray" Yeshu'a to the authorities.

One very likely reason, I believe given their past history of the religious and political "authorities" in that area from the time of Moses to the days of Yeshu'a, is likely that the Romans threatened to kill every male Jew between certain ages in a hundred, or so, mile radius in order to ensure that they put a stop to his growing ministry. If you'll recall the story of Spartacus...when it came time for Spartacus to give himself up...everyone was suddenly Spartacus.

I have a theory that Judas was not an outsider, as most will have us believe, but in fact was an Essene and was Mary's younger brother... it is said that Jesus/Yeshu'a and Judas looked so much alike that at times even the disciples couldn't tell them apart.
That Judas had been an Essene would give great cause to the legend that He understood the teachings of Yeshu'a far better than any of the other disciples. I think He was part of the entourage in order to "keep an eye on him" for Mary's sake.

At this point I would like to discuss matrices.

The six pointed star, or Magen David is made up of two interlaced equilateral triangles. According to Rudhyar, "the trine always presents a challenge to have a vision of what is possible.' He also said, it allows one to be "imbued with a sense of purpose." The six pointed matrix allows one to take that vision, and sense of purpose, and use it with "adequate management and organizational genius."

Dane Rudhyar has, to my knowledge, at least implied that the Magen David was prophesied or expected to appear in the birth chart of the Messiah. This is what I was looking for when I first started using astrological web sites and their computer ephemerices. A Rabbi, the late Dr. Joel Dobin, also infers it in his book "Kabbalistic Astrology" and I have come across other such inferrences, from other Rabbis, over the years

I found no possible six-point matrix for the date Edgar Cayce gave as the true birth time. I did find however, an incomplete Grand Septile matrix on this chart that I propose is the correct one for Jesus. And this matrix, in fact, involves every other point of a Grand Septile matrix. Starting with the Ascendant and traveling in either direction, [i.e. clockwise or counter-clockwise], around the chart the septile points would be every 51.428571. An irrational number, which interestingly enough, is the exact angle of the side of the Great Pyramid. Very little is known about the septile and much less the Grand Septile matrix. To my knowledge, the only thing Rudhyar ever really commented about on this aspect is that, according to ancient lore, it is an aspect of fatality. Now I propose using the ascendant as the basis or the starting point of this matrix. Because Pluto is a little past the ascendant and the moon is just before the ascendant. There is a much larger allowable orb than the 2 that is normally allowed to either side for this aspect. An allowance of an extra 45 minutes of a degree to either side is what I estimate. Thus, these points, from [1]; Pluto clockwise around the chart would be at [2] nine + degrees Leo; [3] just about exactly 18 Gemini; [4] 26 + degrees Aries; [5] between 5 and 6 Pisces; [6] approximately 14 Capricorn and [7] just a little more than 22 Scorpio.

As to the construct of the incomplete Grand Septile matrix on this chart, you'll find that after the conjunction of Pluto and the Moon on the Ascendant that there is to be found Mars at 18 56 minutes Gemini on one of the other seven points. Two of the other points are occupied by Venus at 6 47 minutes Pisces and Neptune at 24 26 minutes Scorpio. The missing points on the septile matrix in the birth chart of Jesus, those at Leo, Aries and Capricorn are found to have been completed by progression on the Monday after, what was the first Easter Sunday. If my proposed birth time for Jesus is correct, then by all given history. The first Easter Sunday would have been April 15 in the year 35 AD by the Gregorian calendar. From the Astrodienst computer we find these missing points completed at approximately 2:00 P.M. the next day, Monday, following. At that time and date the Sun was in the 26th degree of Aries, the Moon in the 14th degree of Capricorn, and Saturn and Jupiter, conjunct, at a little more than 12 Leo.

Below is the chart for...
The Day after the Sunday of the Crucifixion... the completion of the Septile matrix




The time of day given in the above chart is my arbitrary choice.... the exact time was decisive according to Gods' Will



Lots more to continue with in the posts ahead (although some of the originals were deleted some years ago...as I was in the late planning stage of leaving this forum forever and felt it best to take certain threads with me rather than leave them behind to be trashed by trolls.) ptv

_______________
You are a Divine creation of the Universe!


Last edited by piercethevale; 06-16-2019 at 08:23 PM. Reason: Continuously being revised (March 7, 2017 clarified and corrected grammar up to "The Rick Barber Program"
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Unread 12-11-2008, 06:08 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

okay

i dont know if anyone read the latest news but
aussie astronomer figured out that Jesus was born June 15th 2nd year AD

this is last weekend's news

T
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Unread 12-11-2008, 08:25 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Dave, I deleted the double post for you and PM'd you on how to do it yourself next time, should you want to do that.

Cheers, Starlink
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

My goodness, Pierce, you are quite something! For me this is really unknown territory with matrixes and Julian Calendars etc. so I hope you forgive me if I dont comment on your post. But I must say, you do come up with very special posts always.

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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Hi Star

believe it or not julian calendar is still being used in northern africa... it was used in europe until 1582 ... then it was switched to Gregorian

T
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Tika, thanks. I once had to change timefrom Gregorian to our calendar (my Russian Grandmother in law) but Julian calendar I never dealt with.
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Unread 02-05-2009, 09:55 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Starlink

it is relatively easy one

January, april, June, August, November and December had 29 days ... that is prior to 45 BC
ohh yeah and they had a month called Intercalaris.. it is between Febuary and March
Feburary in leap year had 23 or 24 days

after 46 bc, Intercalaris was abolished

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar

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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Congratulations on your book! It is so amazing to see all of these talented and wonderful people on this website!

While I am pretty new at astrology myself, I know the basics (I think), do you think this book would go above the knowledge that I have?
I am interested in reading it, but with my Gemini self I love to read fast, and if things get too complicated I go nuts!
Edit again,
Would I need another resource book to help me to understand it? I am very interested!
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Unread 10-02-2009, 09:11 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

My strong feeling is that Jesus was born around 7 BC our time. It is possible he was born in March, I would agree. I have researched this subject quite extensively and my belief that in 33AD when he was crucified that he was around 39 or 40. There are strong arguments for this which I wont go into on this forum.
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Unread 10-06-2009, 04:00 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Quote:
...and May 7th at 18:43 hr?...I was born May 6 at 18:41...???...!!!
Really??!! I was born on May 5th at 18:46! So what is his Asc? Scorpio or maybe just Sagittarius?
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Unread 10-07-2009, 07:23 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Piercetheveil,
I always remember that that Jesus was described as being a King,and the fact that his birth was recognized by those who had studied the stars and they followed this star because a great King was to be born.Can that be found in this natal chart also?
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Unread 10-07-2009, 11:23 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

I always found it amazing how the church always condemns astrology yet it was with the use of astrology that prompted the magi as well as others to even try to find the coming King .And to this day the Magi or as they are called the wise men are always shown in a nativity woshipping the Christ child with thier gifts.In my own personal life this was one of the reasons I began to study astrology,for years as a christian being taught it was evil,I have since realized that we can't just go by what we are taught.We must find out for ourselves the truths behind what we have been taught and then and only then can we hopefully find the truth.I consider my self lucky because I know so many people in the church will never come to this realization,they think they are questioning God and the church but I believe God wants us to question the church and thier beliefs.I mean after all didn't he.
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Unread 05-02-2010, 04:20 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

I use 6 Jan 6 BC midnight for jesus's chart in bethlehem.
Moon is in cancer at home 16 deg conjunct eris(superman)
Jupiter conjunct saturn + 2007 OR10 in pisces
asc=10 deg libra 45 minutes (a teacher looking over glasses)
sun = 13 deg capricorn 48 minutes(an ancient bass relief in granite)
It is like one of those buddha statues in the east.
I'll get into the sabian symbols an other day

Jim
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Unread 05-21-2010, 06:41 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Progressed charts are a lie.

CHeck out the resurection of jesus the christ
4 apr 28 AD julian at sunrise in Jerusalem(Garden tomb=35 deg 13' 47.92" E, 31 deg 47' 1.87" N) Source for place = wikipedia

It is the birth of christianity
The ascendant + sun = an unexploded bomb?
The moon conjuncts sedna.
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Unread 11-18-2010, 11:57 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

I just came across this article and wanted to add it into the mix of choices. Perhaps this could also be analyzed with sabian's to see how it stands?

http://zyntara.com/VisualAstrologyNe...05/dec2005.htm
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Unread 11-18-2010, 11:59 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Pierce - I always appreciate your imput on this and of course I've greatly noted the 19th degree of Pisces since that is my rising. = - )

I found that article interesting because it seemed to be promoting the idea that it was the sky and not a physical manifestation of Jesus here on earth as much as noted in the stars.

I knew I could count on your imput and I was looking forward to it in fact.

Thank you as always!
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Unread 12-12-2010, 05:30 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

I wonder if Jesus's birth chart is a mystery for a reason.
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Unread 12-16-2010, 12:59 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
[I apologize for breaking my vow...but I do have to say this ...]

Juicey J...if you've read all the previous posts in this thread and it is still a mystery to you then, yes, there must be a reason for that.
Who said the birth you gave is right? Can you know for absolute certain? Your going by the theory of the star being the moon obsuring a star in aries where as many say it was saturn/jupiter conjunction in pisces and I heard from one source uranus was involved in said aligment.
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Unread 12-18-2010, 10:17 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

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Unread 12-19-2010, 12:50 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

piercethevale

i have glanced through this thread but i may have missed some statements that would pertain to my thoughts,if so please be patient.

the first point that aroused my critical nature was your use of easter as being a point of reference. i realize it is the first sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox, but it seems thatyou should consider pasover as the easter was not instuited until centuries after the birth.

i also assign great signifigance to edgar cayce.he mentions that jesus was an essene but also that mary was a priestess, i beleive he said mary was the12th out of twelve,she was not the high priestess.there was a problem because the holy spirit was to enter the body of the high priestess but instead enter mary's body.this created the problems that lead to mary having to leave the qumran settlement.

i also wonder why no mentioned is made of the likelyhood that the essenes were the house of zadok.aaron had given the control of the temple cultus to the house of zadok in the time of moses.they held this right until the maccabean revolution in 150bc when the maccabees gave the control of the temple cultus to the hasmoneans who were a secular family.herod's legitmacy was based on the fact that he married a hasmonean princess.

so the fact that the essenes folowed the temple cultus and referred to the priest in jerusalem as usurpers implies they were descended from the house of zadok.
the second book of maccabees states that after the refusal of the maccabees to return the house of zadok to their hereditary right,"they dissappeared in to the desert".also it is mentioned that the house of zadok contained both high priests and high priestess.

the settlement at qumran,and it was a settlement and not soley a monastic retreat is made apparent by the grave yard which contained graves of men and women.
by their own writtings the essenes purpose was to have the teacher of righteousness/messiah born from them/every man fulfilled his domestic duties and then a point in his life ,he dedicated hi life to bringing in the messiah.this was their conscious purpose.and as the qumran settlement began circa 150bc in the desert and the house of zadok dissappeared into the desert circa 150 bc........ why is no attention brought to this.

the qumran settlement was occupied til 5bc,i believe, when it a was damaged by a severe earthquake.it was not reoccupied until approximaetly 30 ad and continue until it was utterly leveled by the romans along with all jerusalem in 140 ad.my dates may be off a few years as i have not thought about this for some time.

so the 30 years of jesus life could be represented. and as jesus the christ/messiah/annointed one,when after his death god did not destroy the roman/oppressors,the essences returned to qumran to develope the theology that has evolved into christianity.

so these archeological facts about qumran leads me to place jesus birth in 5 bc,again the actual archeological date may be 6 bc as i am not current in my thoughts as previously mentioned.

rahu
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Unread 12-20-2010, 12:06 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

piercethevale
instead of sending you obtuse pms as you have me.
i will continue this train of thought.
which leads me to place jesus's birth in gemini.

rahu
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Unread 12-22-2010, 03:19 PM
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Red face Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

He was born in summer, so I'm guessing he's a Leo, since he's a teacher. And he was way confident of his status as messiah and all that.

I also think he had Uranus in Sagittarius or in the 9th house since he was a radical in the area of spirituality. Or lots of Aquarius and Sagittarius placements.

Since he had lots of friends of both sexes, I think he had 11th house planets too.

Then since he didn't put his teachings in print, he probably didn't have a strong Virgo placement. But he might have had a strong Gemini or Mercury because he was a master storyteller and was able to maintain the attention of crowds in his many speeches.

Maybe he had difficult aspects to the 10th house or to Saturn...issues with authority. But soft aspects to the 4th house or Moon since he was close to his mother until his afterlife.

I don't know what placement it is, probably Saturn or MC, but the progressed form made him emerge in his life's calling at age 30.

Lastly, he might have had a Pisces ascendant and many 12th house planets, being so involved with unreal/surreal and out of this world things, frequent time-out escapes to pray, and using water for a number of his miracles (water to wine, healing the blind, calming the storm, wine to blood).
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Unread 12-24-2010, 03:51 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

I enjoyed getting my regular dose of online aggression by following this thread in my email notification.

Merry Christmas!
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Unread 12-29-2010, 06:56 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Hi. I have other endeavors to do that are a great deal of demand on my time. Thus my having to bounce back to this thread every time some 'widjet head' throws a spanner at me was getting very annoying. [such as the last two posts above...not one comment on anything to do with Sabian Symbols or technique ...just a 'spanner' thrown and rather poorly,]
Thus I deleted all the previous posts so I won't have to worry about vultures picking at my remains while I'm gone.
To those of you that aren't 'up to date' with this work of mine and the chart produced...get hip...read the book and then join in.
[Or you can find a concise synopsis at actastrology.com in the Sabian Forum]
The rest of you will like this new revelation/development
[Note I will delete this post in 2 weeks...!]
Note: May 9, 2016... Well... It's easily discerned that I decided to stick around after all... and, as I noted above... asctastrology.com is no longer in existence ...ptv
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Observation on...

The Septile Matrix.
["According to Marc [Edmond] Jones, the key meaning of the septile is 'fatality'..." {Dane Rudhyar and Leyla Rael; "Astrological Aspects. A Process Oriented Approach."]

The Septile Matrix that has 4 of the 7 points complete at birth are:
#1. Pluto/Asc/Moon @ 29* Virgo 25'- 0* Libra 59' [allowing a wide orb of influence around the Zodiac.]
#3. Mars @ 18* Gemini 56"
#5. Venus @ 06* Pisces 47"
#7. Neptune @ 24* Scorpio 26'

The missing points that were filled the day after, what would have to have been, the first Easter Sunday. [ i.e. The first Sunday after the first Full Moon of Spring]

#2. Saturn @ 12* Leo 39' & Jupiter @ 12* Leo 57'
#4. Sun @ 25 Aries 29'
#6. Moon @ 14* Capricorn 00"

Interestingly, these following Arabic Parts of the natal chart...please note:

Part of Death [Medval] [C8 + Saturn -Moon] @ 07* Aquarius 19* directly opposite point #2
Part of Bereavement [C12 + R12 - Neptune] @ 09* Aquarius 53'... almost directly opposite point # 2.
Part of Insincerity [Asc + Moon - Neptune] @ 16* Gemini 57' conj. point # 3.
Part of Disputes Asc + Venus - Mars] 18* Gemini 34' conj. point # 3.
Part of False Love [Asc. + Neptune - Venus] @ 18* Gemini 22' conj. point # 3.
Part of Disappointment [[Asc. - + Mars - Neptune] @ 25* Aries 13' conj. point # 4.
Part of Life/Re-incarnation [Asc + Saturn - Jupiter] @ 25* Aries 57' conj. point # 4.
Part of Death/Disaster {Asc + C8 - Moon} @ 29* Aries 36' [about 2-* off the conj....allowable, conj. point #4.]
Part of Suicide [Asc. + C8 - Neptune] 04* Pisces 35' conj. point # 5
Part of Deceit [Asc + Venus - Neptune] 13* Capricorn 05' conj. point # 6.
Part of Destiny [M.C. + Sun - Moon] 13* Capricorn 14' conj. point # 6.
Part of Unusual Events [Asc + Uranus - Moon] 25* Scopio 43' conj. point #7.
Part of Discord [Asc + Jupiter -Mars] 24* Taurus 59' directly opp. point #7.

For what this may be of worth to some of you , Ruldolph Steiner said the day of death was 14 days after Jesus/Yeshuas' 32nd birthday and this is 14 days after the day I say is the birth i.e. April 2nd.
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Last edited by piercethevale; 05-09-2016 at 09:05 AM. Reason: Update with note on May 9, 2016
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Unread 12-30-2010, 04:30 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

I'll post the Birth Chart and the 'Death Chart again for any one that wants to check the results for themselves.











Birth
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