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  #26  
Unread 05-22-2017, 11:31 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

What do you guys think about libertarianism?

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  #27  
Unread 05-22-2017, 11:43 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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What do you guys think about libertarianism?

I believe its a deviation from the fundamental universal principle of Love as many of the other paradigms are.



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  #28  
Unread 08-21-2017, 02:33 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

Feminism itself is often connected with other liberation movements. Recently deceased feminist Simone Veil has dedicated her life to struggle against antisemitism and racism. This is not surprising as we are often subjected to many types of oppression, not just one of them.

When it comes to racism, we can find similar patterns, but in the opposite way, defending oppression - racism is often intertwined with sexism, homofobia or some other forms of hatred.

I'v been thinking how the recent tragedy in Charlottesville have discloused this very pattern. The victim of the murder has been stigmatised in a very ugly manner that implies her private life, sexual life and physical appearance. Rebellious men are never stigmatised this way. In the similar way are stigmatised women (not men), who are helping refugees or defending their rights.So women who decide to fight racism or some other manifestations of hatred and injustice, will be very likely exposed to sexist attacks.

I think today's feminism has a lot of work to do with this special kind of degradation of women.

Last edited by demetraceres; 08-21-2017 at 02:37 PM.
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  #29  
Unread 08-21-2017, 02:59 PM
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Smile Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

Bullies very often need to find excuses for their predatory behavior.
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  #30  
Unread 08-21-2017, 06:58 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Originally Posted by demetraceres View Post
Feminism itself is often connected with other liberation movements. Recently deceased feminist Simone Veil has dedicated her life to struggle against antisemitism and racism. This is not surprising as we are often subjected to many types of oppression, not just one of them.

When it comes to racism, we can find similar patterns, but in the opposite way, defending oppression - racism is often intertwined with sexism, homofobia or some other forms of hatred.

I'v been thinking how the recent tragedy in Charlottesville have discloused this very pattern. The victim of the murder has been stigmatised in a very ugly manner that implies her private life, sexual life and physical appearance. Rebellious men are never stigmatised this way. In the similar way are stigmatised women (not men), who are helping refugees or defending their rights.So women who decide to fight racism or some other manifestations of hatred and injustice, will be very likely exposed to sexist attacks.

I think today's feminism has a lot of work to do with this special kind of degradation of women.

I think your thoughts are interesting in the sense that all of these hateful paradigms and those who represents them consciously or unconsciously have from what I have seen always this sexist and women degrading component within them. It runs through them like a virus and it is often these unconscious ones who are claiming that unequality and oppression against women do not exist which of course is a ridiculous false belief.

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  #31  
Unread 08-21-2017, 07:50 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Originally Posted by ynnest View Post
I think your thoughts are interesting in the sense that all of these hateful paradigms and those who represents them consciously or unconsciously have from what I have seen always this sexist and women degrading component within them. It runs through them like a virus and it is often these unconscious ones who are claiming that unequality and oppression against women do not exist which of course is a ridiculous false belief.

Y
Where in the western world does inequlity for women exist?

Sure if you go to undevelop countries with religious influence such as the middle east. But by far equality exists for both sexes.

The U.S./European feminist movement is certainly miss-directed now days.
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  #32  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:02 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Where in the western world does inequlity for women exist?

Sure if you go to undevelop countries with religious influence such as the middle east. But by far equality exists for both sexes.

The U.S./European feminist movement is certainly miss-directed now days.

Are you serious, Dirius?

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  #33  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:04 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Are you serious, Dirius?

Y
I am.

I get that inequality for women exists in many parts of the world, specially in the 3rd world, particularly in deep`religious countries.

But where in the western world does inequality (both genders not having equal rights)exist?
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  #34  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:13 PM
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Smile Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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I am.

I get that inequality for women exists in many parts of the world, specially in the 3rd world, particularly in deep`religious countries.

But where in the western world does inequality (both genders not having equal rights)exist?
Would you consider that the vast majority of victims of rape, domestic violence, and human trafficking are women (and yes, human trafficking is going on in the western world) to be a form of inequality?
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  #35  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:20 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

To be a feminist is to be a victim.
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  #36  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:23 PM
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Smile Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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To be a feminist is to be a victim.
No question that women are being victimized. Feminism is against that, first and foremost.
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  #37  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:29 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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No question that women are being victimized. Feminism is against that, first and foremost.
Feminism used to be against that. These days they're playing the oppressed, offended, and utterly traumatised card. Are they trying to make us believe that women are that hysterical and feeble?

They also seem to think that the serious abuses against women in places like Saudi, where there is real oppression, are ok because it's part of their culture.

Ugh.
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  #38  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:35 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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I am.

I get that inequality for women exists in many parts of the world, specially in the 3rd world, particularly in deep`religious countries.

But where in the western world does inequality (both genders not having equal rights)exist?

In terms of laws and "official standards" outwardly portrayed the western society is better yes but in reality it is not as progressive as it claims to be which creates this false perception in peoples mind of an equal society which blocks them and our society as a whole from understanding/accessing the truth as it is so that it can be transformed. Without grounding ourselves in the truth as it is without false labels/identities we cant transcend these negative patterns.

Y
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  #39  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:38 PM
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Smile Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
Feminism used to be against that. These days they're playing the oppressed, offended, and utterly traumatised card. Are they trying to make us believe that women are that hysterical and feeble?

They also seem to think that the serious abuses against women in places like Saudi, where there is real oppression, are ok because it's part of their culture.

Ugh.
Are you feeling victimized by feminists?
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  #40  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:38 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Would you consider that the vast majority of victims of rape, domestic violence, and human trafficking are women (and yes, human trafficking is going on in the western world) to be a form of inequality?
Neither of those are subjects of inequality among genders, they are related to criminal violence (which specifically targets women). Society does not condone any of the 3 examples you presented, neither does the law.

(again we are talking about the western world).

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Originally Posted by ynnest View Post
In terms of laws and "official standards" outwardly portrayed the western society is better yes but in reality it is not as progressive as it claims to be which creates this false perception in peoples mind of an equal society which blocks them and our society as a whole from understanding/accessing the truth as it is so that it can be transformed. Without grounding ourselves in the truth as it is without false labels/identities we cant transcend these negative patterns.

Y
I'm gonna have to ask for a bit more consistent argument with examples, because you didn't really answer my question, you just stated that what I said is a "false perception of reality".
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Last edited by Dirius; 08-21-2017 at 08:41 PM.
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  #41  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:46 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Neither of those are subjects of inequality among genders, they are related to criminal violence (which specifically targets women). Society does not condone any of the 3 examples you presented, neither does the law.

(again we are talking about the western world).



I'm gonna have for a bit more consistent argument with examples, because you didn't really answer my question, you just stated that what I said is a "false perception of reality".
Society "not condoning" it, doesn't mean there's enough being done about it. Women are the vast majority of victims in these three categories, which is a form of inequality regarding vital personal security.
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  #42  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:48 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

Feminists are sexist.

They judge people based on gender and not on individual ability.
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  #43  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:50 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Society "not condoning" it, doesn't mean there's enough being done about it. Women are the vast majority of victims in these three categories, which is a form of inequality regarding vital personal security.
And men are more likely to be victims of violent crime. Which is also not okay. Nobody should be assaulted, full stop.

But as Dirius said, this is about crime and criminals, not about society condoning it.
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  #44  
Unread 08-21-2017, 08:55 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Society "not condoning" it, doesn't mean there's enough being done about it. Women are the vast majority of victims in these three categories, which is a form of inequality regarding vital personal security.
A lot of problems in society could recieve better solutions or more resource investment. This doesn't mean that the problems you exemplified are being ignored, or that nothing is being done.

Also, bare mind that the very nature of some crimes are harder to adjust to the criminal justice system, and finding a solution isn't always easy.

I'm not against the fight to end these 3 examples. They just don't constitute inequality.
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Last edited by Dirius; 08-21-2017 at 08:58 PM.
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  #45  
Unread 08-21-2017, 09:01 PM
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A lot of problems in society don't recieve the resources they should. This doesn't mean that the problems you exemplified are being ignored, or that nothing is being done.

Also, bare mind that the very nature of some crimes are harder to adjust to the criminal justice system.

I'm not against the fight to end these 3 examples. They just don't constitute inequality.
They do constitute gender inequality, because women are far more likely to be victimized than men. Men can be feminists, and concentrate on stopping these crimes against women.
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  #46  
Unread 08-21-2017, 09:09 PM
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Smile Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Originally Posted by Svencanz View Post
This is a recent story from a Swedish newspaper and news website. It tells of a 46-year-old man who was killed by a 50-year-old relative because he refused to murder his daughters. The relative demanded the girls should be killed because they had "shaken hands with boys".
The 50-year-old man killed the father by sticking a pair of scissors into his throat. In the interest of fairness and non-prejudice, Swedish media and police never report races and nationality, or origin, of perpetrators.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/...dade-sina-barn
That father was brave, and died a hero.
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  #47  
Unread 08-21-2017, 09:24 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Neither of those are subjects of inequality among genders, they are related to criminal violence (which specifically targets women). Society does not condone any of the 3 examples you presented, neither does the law.

(again we are talking about the western world).



I'm gonna have to ask for a bit more consistent argument with examples, because you didn't really answer my question, you just stated that what I said is a "false perception of reality".

The belief that the western society is equal is from "my" perspective indeed a false perception of reality that many people embodies. What needs to be understood is that questions in regards to the equal rights and equal worth of women must include and be transformed into new terms that instead addresses women's HUMAN VALUE at all levels in its broadest sense to avoid the major error that many of those who opposes womens freedom and development often does when they are separating women's human value into different subcategories like violence as one separate issue and equality as one separate issue to make them seem like separate issues/entities when they in truth are highly connected. This then separates women into narrow categories and devoids them of their power and human dignity.


Y

Last edited by ynnest; 08-21-2017 at 09:29 PM.
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  #48  
Unread 08-21-2017, 09:26 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
They do constitute gender inequality, because women are far more likely to be victimized than men. Men can be feminists, and concentrate on stopping these crimes against women.
The fact that women are victims of more crimes does not mean that "less" is being done about it. It just means that women are more likely victims of crimes because they are percieved as biologically weaker.

Women are, for example, also more likely to be robbed at gun point than men.

Children are more succeptible to crimes than adults. Doesn't mean society and law is unequal towards children, and neither does it mean that less is done to protect them (quite the contrary we do more).
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  #49  
Unread 08-21-2017, 09:29 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Originally Posted by ynnest View Post
The belief that the western society is equal is from "my" perspective indeed a false perception of reality that many people embodies. What needs to be understood is that questions in regards to the equal rights and equal worth of women must include and be transformed into new terms that instead addresses women's human value at all levels in its broadest sense to avoid the major error that many of those who opposes womens freedom and development often does when they are separating women's human value into different subcategories like violence as one separate issue and equality as one separate issue to make them seem like separate issues/entities when they in truth are highly connected. This then separates women into narrow categories and devoids them of their power and human dignity.


Y
Again, you are not really saying much about the subject, just intermixing poetic metaphors to make a confusing point about how you percieve women are treated on a surreal subjective level.

Its best if you go for actual arguments or examples.
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Last edited by Dirius; 08-21-2017 at 09:34 PM.
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  #50  
Unread 08-21-2017, 09:32 PM
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Re: To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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Originally Posted by Svencanz View Post
This is a recent story from a Swedish newspaper and news website. It tells of a 46-year-old man who was killed by a 50-year-old relative because he refused to murder his daughters. The relative demanded the girls should be killed because they had "shaken hands with boys".
The 50-year-old man killed the father by sticking a pair of scissors into his throat. In the interest of fairness and non-prejudice, Swedish media and police never report races and nationality, or origin, of perpetrators.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/...dade-sina-barn
It is certainly easy to identify that crime was committed by inmigrants of a different culture. The people involved are relatives of another similar case, which leads to the knowledge that they were Turkish inmigrants: https://www.defendevropa.org/2017/mi...der-daughters/

On Thursday it emerged that the victim as well as the defendant were relatives of Fadime Sahindal, who was murdered by her father in 2002 – also in an honour killing – and became a nationwide symbol for this whole phenomenon.

Western society does not practice honor killing.
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