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  #1  
Unread 09-26-2018, 06:29 AM
GemwDepth GemwDepth is offline
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Which is worse? A planet exalted with poor aspect vs. in rulership with poor aspect?

Modern astrology says “When a planet is in its rulership, it is strong— all of its significations, both positive and negative, are strengthened. When a planet is exalted, the planet has less brute strength but provides more refined results.” I take this to mean a planet in rulership empowers the good and worsens bad, while a planet in exaltation minimize the bad due to better control.

We know everything is a case-by-case basis, but we need demonstration to outline nuance.

So here is a Saturn example in exalation, rulership, fall and peregrine. Of the below, how would you rank it from the least harmful, to most harmful?
  1. Saturn in Libra square Venus in Cancer (changed from Gemini)
  2. Saturn in Capricorn square Venus in Libra
  3. Saturn in Cancer square Venus in Aries
  4. Saturn in Sagittarius square Venus in Pisces

Why? If you have time, explain how you would envision each manifesting in a person's life?


Last edited by GemwDepth; 09-26-2018 at 09:58 PM.
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Unread 09-26-2018, 07:04 AM
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Re: What is worse? Planet Exalted with bad aspect, or in Rulership with bad aspect?

I think the first case.
Mine have Exalted Saturn Conjunct Mars.
Even Exalted Saturn failed to get me out from Restrictions. I already past half of life time. Still Saturn failed take over Mars yet.
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Unread 09-26-2018, 07:16 AM
GemwDepth GemwDepth is offline
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Re: What is worse? Planet Exalted with bad aspect, or in Rulership with bad aspect?

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Originally Posted by Somna7H View Post
I think the first case.
Mine have Exalted Saturn Conjunct Mars.
Even Exalted Saturn failed to get me out from Restrictions. I already past half of life time. Still Saturn failed take over Mars yet.
But this would be Saturn in Libra conjunct Mars in Libra no? So Saturn is stronger where mars is weaker. That's like a captain teamed up with a handicapped guy (no offense ), so the captain is slowed down. If Saturn is in Capricorn conjunct Mars in Capricorn, Mars has tons of strength, actually they both do, so its like two captains on one team marching on.
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Unread 09-26-2018, 07:47 AM
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Re: What is worse? Planet Exalted with bad aspect, or in Rulership with bad aspect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GemwDepth View Post
Modern astrology says “When a planet is in its rulership, it is strong— all of its significations, both positive and negative, are strengthened. When a planet is exalted, the planet has less brute strength but provides more refined results.” I take this to mean rulership empowers any good or bad aspects, while exaltation can minimizes the bad.
I feel like your question is flawed.

A bad aspect doesn't really make things worse. It's just an opportunity for growth.

But I had to pick one, I think the a exalted planet with a bad aspect is "worse" because it's not as good as its rulership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GemwDepth View Post
We know everything is a case-by-case basis, but we need demonstration to outline nuance.

So here is a Saturn example in exalation, rulership, fall and peregrine. Of the below, how would you rank it from the least harmful, to most harmful?
  1. Saturn in Libra square Venus in Gemini
  2. Saturn in Capricorn square Venus in Libra
  3. Saturn in Cancer square Venus in Aries
  4. Saturn in Sagittarius square Venus in Pisces

Why? If you have time, explain how you would envision each manifesting in a person's life?
Least to most harmful:
Saturn in Libra square Venus in Gemini
Saturn in Capricorn square Venus in Libra
Saturn in Sagittarius square Venus in Pisces
Saturn in Cancer square Venus in Aries

For the first one the square is kind of weird because gemini and libra are naturally trine with each other so... the square won't be much of an issue because they are both air signs. Air signs can easily resolve. Libra is about balance and relationships, gemini is curious and focuses on communication, so any problems that arise will be easily corrected when the native converses better.

The second one manifests as perhaps a struggle between being too authoritative and controlling. Saturn's desire to do what is right makes it difficult for one to maintain balance and peaceful environment in their relationships. Both these planets are domicile though, so the energies will be expressed well, I think. When the square is overcome the native will be quite diplomatic and will alway do what is right.

The third one will create an issue from being too lofty. The idealistic Venus will make love easy to find, but the Saturn in sagittarius will make the person way focused on philosophy and travel, giving the person quite a wistful, wanderlust, and loony quality despite venus-saturn aspects to be pretty down-to-earth in their relationships.

The last one is the worst because Saturn in Cancer takes emotions quite seriously. Maybe this person is heavily guarded, abused emotionally, very sensitive, and have a need to work really hard to get their feelings under control. These people are needy but yet hate being dependent. And then venus in aries makes people quite selfish in their relationships. This makes the person difficult to connect with and establish a sense of harmony. Combine these and you just get someone who doesn't do great in their relationships, money, aesthetics.. because their strong and angry emotions will always get the best of them.. however, they are probably quite artistic/passionate/creative.
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Last edited by AppLeo; 09-26-2018 at 07:53 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 09-26-2018, 07:59 AM
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Re: What is worse? Planet Exalted with bad aspect, or in Rulership with bad aspect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
I feel like your question is flawed.
A bad aspect doesn't really make things worse. It's just an opportunity for growth.
Depends on which school of astrology one subscribes to. Modern psychological or something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
But I had to pick one, I think the a exalted planet with a bad aspect is "worse" because it's not as good as its rulership.
But as I understand it, the following premise below means: rulership makes the negative aspects worse, and accentuates the positives. Yet exaltation placements means the main planet has more self control, so any negative aspects related to it isn't further dragged down.

“When a planet is in its rulership, it is strong— all of its significations, both positive and negative, are strengthened. When a planet is exalted, the planet has less brute strength but provides more refined results.”


Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Least to most harmful:
Saturn in Libra square Venus in Gemini
Saturn in Capricorn square Venus in Libra
Saturn in Sagittarius square Venus in Pisces
Saturn in Cancer square Venus in Aries

For the first one the square is kind of weird because gemini and libra are naturally trine with each other so... the square won't be much of an issue because they are both air signs. Air signs can easily resolve. Libra is about balance and relationships, gemini is curious and focuses on communication, so any problems that arise will be easily corrected when the native converses better.
Ok I took the same element out, what about:

Saturn in Libra square Venus in Cancer

vs

Saturn in Capricorn square Venus in Libra

One can argue the second one although in square, has rulership in both. Saturn is strong in Cap and Venus rules Libra. It just means the native is superb in both areas, but they tend to conflict with each other in his/her life. Versus the first one, the Saturn in Libra sector would be strengthened, but Venus in Cancer would suffer, due to the conflict between the two. So 'Saturn in Libra square Venus in Cancer' is worse.

These two examples was always going to be the tossup.

Last edited by GemwDepth; 09-26-2018 at 08:06 AM.
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Unread 09-26-2018, 08:11 AM
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Re: What is worse? Planet Exalted with bad aspect, or in Rulership with bad aspect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GemwDepth View Post
But I understand the following premise as: rulership makes the negative aspects worse, and accentuates the positives. Yet exaltation placements means the main planet has more self control, so it doesn't further drag any negative aspects down further.

“When a planet is in its rulership, it is strong— all of its significations, both positive and negative, are strengthened. When a planet is exalted, the planet has less brute strength but provides more refined results.”
Mehh... it depends on if it's a generational planet, I think.

Saturn in Cancer aspecting Venus in Libra is way worse than Saturn in Sag aspecting a Venus in Pisces because the Saturn is influencing the Venus. Not because Venus in Pisces is more refined. Saturn's quality in Cancer is a much worse quality than Saturn in Sag, which means that the entire aspect will suck.

If you flipped it and put Saturn in Capricorn square Venus in Libra, that would be better than Saturn in Cancer with Venus in Libra.

Ugh, hopefully I make sense.
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  #7  
Unread 09-26-2018, 08:16 AM
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Re: What is worse? Planet Exalted with bad aspect, or in Rulership with bad aspect?

Saturn in Capricorn conjunct Venus in Capricorn
is better than
Saturn in Capricorn square Venus in Libra
which is better than
Saturn in Libra conjunct Venus in Libra
which is better than
Saturn in Libra square Venus in Capricorn
which is better than
Saturn in Aries square Venus in Libra
which is better than
Saturn in Aries square Venus in Cancer
which is better than
Saturn in Aries conjunct Venus in Aries
which is better than
Saturn in Cancer square Venus in Libra
which is better than
Saturn in Cancer conjunct Venus in Cancer
which is better than
Saturn in Cancer opposite Venus in Capricorn
which is better than
Saturn in Cancer square Venus in Aries
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Last edited by AppLeo; 09-26-2018 at 08:19 AM.
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Unread 09-26-2018, 08:25 AM
GemwDepth GemwDepth is offline
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Re: What is worse? Planet Exalted with bad aspect, or in Rulership with bad aspect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Saturn in Capricorn conjunct Venus in Capricorn
is better than
Saturn in Capricorn square Venus in Libra
which is better than
Saturn in Libra conjunct Venus in Libra
which is better than
Saturn in Libra square Venus in Capricorn
which is better than
Saturn in Aries square Venus in Libra
which is better than
Saturn in Aries square Venus in Cancer
which is better than
Saturn in Aries conjunct Venus in Aries
which is better than
Saturn in Cancer square Venus in Libra
which is better than
Saturn in Cancer conjunct Venus in Cancer
which is better than
Saturn in Cancer opposite Venus in Capricorn
which is better than
Saturn in Cancer square Venus in Aries
Now you are adding more aspects to the mix and then argument is now expanded to: which aspect is now better? It complicates the picture.

We are looking at the same aspect, and just primarily differentiating between exaltation and rulership nuances.
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Unread 09-26-2018, 08:28 AM
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Re: What is worse? Planet Exalted with bad aspect, or in Rulership with bad aspect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GemwDepth View Post
Now you are adding more aspects to the mix and then argument is now expanded to: which aspect is now better? It complicates the picture.

We are looking at the same aspect, and just primarily differentiating between exaltation and rulership nuances.
Honestly, does it even matter?

I think the whole rulership/exalted thing is a bunch of nonsense anyway.
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Unread 09-26-2018, 08:49 AM
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Re: What is worse? Planet Exalted with bad aspect, or in Rulership with bad aspect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Honestly, does it even matter?

I think the whole rulership/exalted thing is a bunch of nonsense anyway.
Then why are you answering? I think it matters a great deal in how a native expend energy, especially the why behind it all. There's just tons of nuance and its fascinating.

Case in point is Cher's chart.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cher

Notice she has Saturn in Cancer (detriment) oppose Moon in Capricorn (detriment). Yet both planets are in mutual reception, so they are working together for one goal. Both planets are insecure, so I interpret it as a reigning need to feel secure. I think she achieved a lot in her life due to her deep need for security. Wheres if she had Saturn in Capricorn oppose Moon in Cancer, it would be an energy conflict, swaying back and forth between accomplishment and emotional security. I don't think she would have accomplished as much in the material world in the latter case.

I think its fascinating...
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Unread 09-26-2018, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GemwDepth View Post
But this would be Saturn in Libra conjunct Mars in Libra no? So Saturn is stronger where mars is weaker. That's like a captain teamed up with a handicapped guy (no offense )
Yep, both in Libra 5th.
Check the Degree of Saturn if you don't trust me. Putting my Chart's link.

http://i.imgur.com/mnrnvIh.jpg
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Unread 09-26-2018, 09:12 AM
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Re: What is worse? Planet Exalted with bad aspect, or in Rulership with bad aspect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Mehh... it depends on if it's a generational planet, I think.

Saturn in Cancer aspecting Venus in Libra is way worse than Saturn in Sag aspecting a Venus in Pisces because the Saturn is influencing the Venus. Not because Venus in Pisces is more refined. Saturn's quality in Cancer is a much worse quality than Saturn in Sag, which means that the entire aspect will suck.

If you flipped it and put Saturn in Capricorn square Venus in Libra, that would be better than Saturn in Cancer with Venus in Libra.

Ugh, hopefully I make sense.
Oh yes it makes sense.
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Unread 10-04-2018, 10:07 PM
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Re: What is worse? Planet Exalted with bad aspect, or in Rulership with bad aspect?


discussion continues at

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...112#post919112
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


It depends on placement and superiority, and the topic you are investigating (some signs and places indicate one thing, others indicate another). You need to factor dexter or sinister aspects (https://books.google.bg/books?id=GjI...page&q&f=false), as well as those signs which are commanding and obeying.

Saturn in Capricorn square Venus in Libra is harmonious, because Venus is overcoming Saturn while both are in their domiciles. The person having this configuration in succedent or angular houses will succeed in business, and will gain livelihood (for example in the 38th year), except that his affairs will suffer due to Venus being in changeable sign (especially in the profection years where Venus transmits to Saturn - 16th, 28th, 40th etc. years). If the stars are cadent, then only the negative indication will apply, and more strongly.

Saturn in Libra square Venus in Cancer is similar to the previous, although slightly worse. Saturn in Cancer square Venus in Aries is much worse, such person will suffer base affairs, abuse, separations, harm from relationships or lawsuits, unless Jupiter is closely configured with Venus by day, in which case the results are milder.

Saturn in Sagittarius square Venus in Pisces is inharmonious, although not the worst, due to the square being like-engirding (sharing the same ruler) and Venus being exalted. Saturn in Aries square Venus in Cancer would be worst, unless Jupiter is angular from the configuration by day. If Mars is angular from Saturn and Venus, the indications are worse.

Example - Libra Rising, Saturn at 3 Capricorn, Venus at 2 Aries, Mars in Gemini. The native had a divorce and a second marriage, due Aries being changeable and passionate, and due to the superior ray of Saturn by night, and due to the ruler of VII and Venus being in a double-bodied sign.
Another example - Sagittarius Rising, Jupiter at 1 Sagittarius, Saturn at 17 Sagittarius, Mars at 3 Gemini, Mercury at 13 Virgo, Venus at 23 Virgo. The native had a divorce, due to Mars in Gemini, a double-bodied sign, and due to the ruler being enclosed by malefic rays in a double-bodied sign, while Venus was in a double-bodied sign and in depression.

I have not treat of commanding and obeying (counter-antiscia) on the forum before. The following Hellenistic technique works in a sidereal zodiac. The commanding are beholding, the obeying are listening, which the astrologers set as:
https://i.imgur.com/4GndZI3.jpg

The commanding images are diurnal, while the obeying images are nocturnal. Every image decreasing light obeys the image increasing light. It is better for good stars to be commanding, especially on the right and with the summer solstice. Because of the precession of the equinoxes and the discovery of antipodes, we shall set forward the following theorems:
Libra obeys Leo in the north and commands it in the south.
Scorpio obeys Cancer in the north and commands it in the south.
Sagittarius obeys Gemini in the north and commands it in the south.
Capricorn obeys Taurus in the north and commands it in the south.
Aquarius obeys Aries in the north and commands it in the south.

Therefore in addition to superiority by preceding in diurnal motion, we shall also examine superiority according to the seasons, especially in those places where the change of weather is more pronounced, those above and below the equatorial zone. Taking the aforementioned nativity from Europe, it is clear that the malefic contrary to the sect - the Fiery One, is strongly afflicting Jupiter and Saturn, especially due to the stars being in the contrary solstices according to sect. Indeed, hemming with burning heat, it caused grief from marriage and from siblings later in life (due to setting in the west).


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