A Child's Chart -- alcohol/drug-use potential??

Ixaee

Well-known member
Hi everyone,

Im working on this child's chart, and would like a second opinion please....

The Moon/Neptune/Chiron conjunction in 10th, opposite Mars in 4th is concerning me quite a bit. Especially with their 12th house ruler being Mars.. so its tying all together more..

Am I looking at this the wrong way, as far as possible drug/alcohol issues for them in coming years?

Please would someone share your perspective on these aspects.. and/or the chart as a whole in regard to drugs/alcohol!

Thank you, thank you :)
Ixaee
 
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miquar

Well-known member
Hi Ixaee. Good to see you posting on the forum again.

So it looks like this child was born in June, 2008 from the positions of Pluto and the Sun, so not three years old yet. I can see why you are concerned about the Moon asepcts, especially since the Moon ruler the 'self-esteem planets' Sun and Venus. It would be useful to know the gender of the child, but I'll try to say something gender-neutral for now.

With the Moon stellium in the 10th, it seems that if these chart factors are prone to lead to addiction problems when mixed with the karmic/environmental background and level of consciousness of this child, then there is pressure on the mother to try to creatively influence the way in which the child adds flesh to the bare bones of this archetypal pattern.

With Moon in the 10th there tends to be a particularly close emotional identification with the mother, but this could involve un-lived parts of the mother's psyche as much as those which she is conscious of. With Moon Neptune Chiron, the mother may feel a victim of life in some way, and may continue to sacrifice herself for the child partly as a way to protect herself from painful feelings of isolation. Moon in Aquarius adds a different tone because it suggest that the mother needs breathing space in relationships of all kinds. So there is a kind of ambivalence suggested on the part of the mother.

But I think that in some ways Aquarius and Neptune reinforce one another in that they are both very idealistic and ungrounded. There's a sense here that the Mother is on some level psychologically absent some of the time because she tends to drift off into 'what-might-be'.

This could leave the child feeling a little uncertain about its emotional and physical needs being met. So the mother might benefit herself and the child by trying to ground herself regularly in the presence of the child, so that the otherworldly energies which the child probably perceives in the mother don't seem to threaten the meeting of the needs of the child.

The oppositions to Mars suggest that part of the mother's sense of being a victim could involve her projecting her aggressive energies onto others because she feels unable to incorporate them into her sense of who she is.

So perhaps there is a sense from these aspects of a mother who doesn't have a very strong ego and who may have to focus on mirroring the child's uniqueness back to her/him so that the child does not inherit the lack of ego strength.

You probably know that Mars Neptune is prone to addiction due to the tendency of the aggressive energy to turn inwards. This Mars in Leo just in the 5th could possibly also seek to control others and feel special through being an addict, if the potentials in the chart go to that extreme.

It seems likely to me that the mother has some buried rage that she could do with getting in touch with. She may even be an addict herself.

Sun Venus in Cancer opposite Pluto could indicate an affectionate but moody father who has felt somehow dangerous during these early years while transiting Pluto tightened these natal aspects by transit. This could also have consequences in that if there is no positive solar role model, then there is nothing to entice the child away from the sense of fusion with the mother suggested by Moon Neptune in the 10th.

But its difficult to say anything without knowing more about the circumstances of this child's environment. Also, I've tended to err on the bleak side in looking at the chart in response to your post, but of course there is nothing in the chart to say that any of my speculations will necessarily, or are even likely to, occur.

I'll try and say more tomorrow if you think it would help.
 
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Claire19

Well-known member
Hi everyone,

Im working on this child's chart, and would like a second opinion please....

The Moon/Neptune/Chiron conjunction in 10th, opposite Mars in 4th is concerning me quite a bit. Especially with their 12th house ruler being Mars.. so its tying all together more..

Am I looking at this the wrong way, as far as possible drug/alcohol issues for them in coming years?

Please would someone share your perspective on these aspects.. and/or the chart as a whole in regard to drugs/alcohol!

Thank you, thank you :)
Ixaee
If the child has an addictive genes there is not much you can do about that and it would come from the parents with the 4th 10th axis involved. It is a genetic predisposition but we cannot say for certain whether the child will embrace it or reject drugs or alcohol. The example set in the home is crucial in this child's case.
 

Ixaee

Well-known member
Hi Miquar! Wow! Your post was so indepth and enlightening, thank you! :happy:

This chart is actually my son's -- but I wanted to keep a bit detached about his chart and not totally involve myself in it........ since I know that our personal involvement can sometimes makes things muddled when reading someone close to us!

His father abandoned him at birth, and the Sun/Venus opp Pluto in 8th really speaks of that... there is zero contact, no one has any idea if he's even alive right now....

So there is definitely some mystery regarding the father....

As the Moon in Aquarius, I am a bit off-beat of course... (those of us involved in astrology always are, arent we!) :biggrin:

** The thing that worries me the most is his Mars opposite Moon/Neptune..

I am not an explosive mother, like this may indicate. I am strict, but very responsible and loving.... a bit unusual, I agree; I am head of house-hold, independent in the sense that I handle all business and take care of everything alone -- willingly!

I also dont drink, use drugs or allow him around any of that either.

So.... I am confused on what this really is, how it could evolve.... or what I could do to neutralize any tendency he may have to turn to drugs/alcohol/escapism down the line...

I am perfectly alright with everything myself.. as the moment you become a parent, and hold your child in your arms, something powerful awakens within you and changes your entire view of the world. Self-sacrifice, then, become an automatic, effortless thing that you never once regret.
( and only a fellow parent could understand such a bond :wink: )

But...... will he be alright with this as he grows into a man?

That's the question that so deeply bothers me, and I cant seem to convince myself that these aspects dont spell a big, haunting **trouble**.................. :unsure:
 
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Ixaee

Well-known member
If the child has an addictive genes there is not much you can do about that and it would come from the parents with the 4th 10th axis involved. It is a genetic predisposition but we cannot say for certain whether the child will embrace it or reject drugs or alcohol. The example set in the home is crucial in this child's case.

Thank you Claire!! So it seems that this Moon conj Neptune may be a saving grace, since I may be able to influence him into a positive direction instead of the left-hand path...

Perhaps that is one gleam of hope afterall! :joyful:

But do you feel that Mars opposition changes this somehow? Could it in anyway be positive, even though it is an opposition? I feel so uneasy about that Mars...
 
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DreamingTheSeas

Well-known member
That lovely Sun Trine Moon and Sun Sextile Saturn are not supportive factors for a well grown up person? Even he has to fight with tendencies he could overcome. And that Moon oppo Mars involving Neptune could mean that he has to deal with a major scandal in his life, a scandal that has to do with woman.
 

Ixaee

Well-known member
That lovely Sun Trine Moon and Sun Sextile Saturn are not supportive factors for a well grown up person? Even he has to fight with tendencies he could overcome. And that Moon oppo Mars involving Neptune could mean that he has to deal with a major scandal in his life, a scandal that has to do with woman.


Hi Dreaming, thank you for your reply and encouragement :)

Ive seen some charts with Mars opp Neptune, and the person was involved in illegal things........ not only drugs/alcohol, but prostitution and negative spheres of sexuality too. Then the scandals that comes with that.. so you just hit my soft spot!

This is where my fear originates..... :pinched:

Hopefully this could only indicate something as simple and innocent as he being submissive to women in general... not as confident perusing women... or maybe even impotence somehow? (especially with his Saturn also in 5th)

Im considering all options, but in the end, it seems the only thing I may be able to do is just wait it out and hope for the best!
 
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miquar

Well-known member
Hi Ixaee.

I just looked at the chart again in the light of what you shared. Some things came to me after I logged off the other day too. I'll put it all in the post in as coherent a way as I can.

I didn't pay due attention to the Capricorn MC yesterday, which seems to reflect the 'strict' component of your parenting. The MC ruling Saturn is in Virgo in the 5th, suggesting a very organised and considered approach to nurturing your son's unique individuality. Your laying down of healthy boundaries while you are his world will help him to meet the wider world with integrity and realism in the future. Saturn being in the 5th house means that he will find a stronger sense of integrity through experiences of self-realisation, and so his sense of who he uniquely is will filter naturally into his public life. Of course where Saturn is in the chart there is a danger of fear getting in the way to some extent, and he is probably predisposed to be self-critical - to fear not being special enough. I'm certainly not trying to lecture on parenting here, but in setting boundaries you might want to avoid saying anything critical about him. For example, 'You are....' He needs Saturn to be strong yet on his side - to contain the strong Pluto, Neptune and Cancer energies without suppressing them. I might normally suggest that a parent of a child with this chart check in with themselves about the various motivations for the boundaries being set. With Saturn in Virgo, there is sometimes an environmental factor which involves organisation motivated to some extent by fear. As you say, you have lots of responsibility on your own, which you are clearly taking very seriously. I'm not knocking this at all. But it's possible that lack of self-confidence could influence your reliance on boundaries - that's just one possible way that his Saturn could manifest in his external environment.

But the main reason I wanted to put another post on this thread was to share some thoughts about the Sun Pluto opposition and the Moon Neptune conjunction. Neptune and Pluto are of course quite nihilistic energies from the viewpoint of individual consciousness. If it is our fate to act as channels for these energies then obviously we must, but its very important to develop a strong individual ego so that we don't become taken over by them.

Taking the Moon first, although the Sun is seen as the light of consciousness, I like a description of the Moon which I once came across as being 'an alternative centre of awareness.' With Moon Neptune the instinctive ability to fulfil the individual's emotional and bodily needs can become lost in a mist of Neptunian universality. Your saying something like, 'Self-sacrifice becomes automatic and effortless,' in your post suggests that you are a good hook for that Moon Neptune conjunction, but if you don't look after your own emotional and bodily needs, you might be modelling the self-immolating tendencies of the aspect. By looking after your own lunar needs, you teach him that he doesn't have to sacrifice the physical and emotional satisfaction of being in a body. There are lots of healthy ways to bring in Neptune - dance might be good at some stage, especially with Mars involved. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't already showing some nifty moves!

Because Chiron can symbolise rage at unfairness, and Mars can react angrily to the emancipating effects of Neptune, I'd encourage any parent of the child with this chart to look for any such feelings. The healthy pursuit of an ideal of motherhood doesn't necessarily have to exclude feeling angry about certain features of the parenting situation. That Moon is also in Aquarius after all - if the father was around and being a supportive co-parent and even partner, what else might you be doing along side being a mother? Does the unfairness mirror any situations that you witnessed or bore as a child?

And Venus is of course often a significator for the mother, and in your case the Sun too to some extent, although some of his Sun will always be projected on the father as he will imagine him to be. The Pluto opposition in his chart could reflect lots of things, including any feelings being carried by you (consciously or unconsciously) about being penned in by the necessity of your situation - powerless to carve the destiny you wish to. With Sun in Venus in Cancer, he probably would have projected lots of solar stuff onto you as the mother anyway. But nonetheless he will still probably imagine his father to be warm and loving (Cancer Venus). And possibly the Pluto opposition will crystallise as a sense that life took his father away. This could influence the way his own solar light emerges into the world - he may be predisposed to feel that there are forces out there which threaten his capacity to pursue his destiny. These forces could be out in the world, or unresolved issues within. By becoming more conscious of any Pluto issues you have, like resentment, feeling powerless, depression, etc you can lessen the amount of Pluto energy in the home environment for him to pick up on. This is just speculative of course - I'm throwing things out in case they're relevant.

I haven't really touched on Mars, which you especially asked about. With Neptune in Aquarius he is part of a generation which idealises the life of the group and of human potential. Chiron also in Aquarius makes him sensitive to any display of brutality or unfairness which flies in the face of the humanitarian ideals. The Moon being part of the stellium suggests that his instinctive responses and manner of feeling safe are in tune with these values. But Mars opposes from Leo - the aggressive urge is coloured by the need to express his unique character and purpose, so there is of course tension here. It obviously falls to you to show how these opposing energies can be reconciled. I think he needs to see you be a bit Leo sometimes, especially with Sun opposite Pluto and Saturn in the 5th. And when he has tantrums, is probably important that he doesn't end up feeling too guilty about them, as this might cause him to bury his Mars to some extent. Mars is in the 5th too.

In fact the opposition could be seen as falling across the 5th/11th house axis with Moon and Neptune so close to the 11th cusp. This brings it into line with the signs involved too, and suggests that issues around his sense of identity and how he takes that identity into group participation could be important as he gets older. Again, it obviously falls to you to model this. Finding a group activity that you could do together that involves free self-expression could be a good thing maybe.

He'll probably be quite stubborn at times, with Sun and chart-ruling Venus opposite Pluto, and Mars in Leo, plus Moon and Ascendant also in fixed signs. I'd say he'll benefit from learning the virtue of yielding by experiencing it in safe circumstances in which he doesn't feel humiliated, but I'm sure you would instinctively know how to handle that kind of thing.

I haven't covered the whole chart, and of course can only guess and speculate about the factors I have mentioned. But feel free to ask anything else if you like.

Best wishes,
 

miquar

Well-known member
I forgot to say - sometimes with Chiron in the 10th/11th the individual has a sense of being an outsider due to circumstances which are no-ones fault but which involve some kind of clash with collective values. He could be sensitive to this if there is anything he could latch onto about himself in this regard.
 

Ixaee

Well-known member

** Thank you, Miquar!!

You've helped me to see things from a completely different standpoint! :surprised:

Because Chiron can symbolise rage at unfairness, and Mars can react angrily to the emancipating effects of Neptune, I'd encourage any parent of the child with this chart to look for any such feelings. The healthy pursuit of an ideal of motherhood doesn't necessarily have to exclude feeling angry about certain features of the parenting situation. That Moon is also in Aquarius after all - if the father was around and being a supportive co-parent and even partner, what else might you be doing along side being a mother? Does the unfairness mirror any situations that you witnessed or bore as a child?


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miquar

Well-known member
Hi. You're very welcome. If transiting Pluto was on your Neptune when your Son was born that partly explain the intense needs to sacrifice yourself for your progeny (5th).

I'm sure that you'll find the right balance, and of course the transits and progressions will nudge the various parts of you when they're ripe for more expression, so the figuring out can be a gradual feeling your way through rather than something that needs to necessarily be mapped out in advance.

Its probably a good time to think about the maternal line in your family and what energies it has tended to carry over the generations.

Please feel free to ask if you want a second opinion on anything else in yours or your boy's chart. I know what its like to be concerned about these things. My boy has Moon in Taurus in the 8th closely squaring a Chiron Saturn opposition, and also sesquiquadrate Pluto, which is on the IC. He's very happy and bright fortunately, but his security needs have needed careful handling.
 

gen6k

Well-known member
Stellium in the 10th could lead to conventionality. If not it would probably take an exploration route, and end up in duty.

I dont know how I feel about progressed charts, but maybe it is about letting go of reciprocal philosophies.
 
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