Will I get my full pension?

When I applied for Social security an international agreement was applied to my total and I now receive less than half what I expected, and what I believe I should receive. I've protested but have received negative replies. Last night this chart came into my head, will I be able to work this out and get my full benefits? I don't know how to interpret the chart. Can someone help me?
Thanks

Thanks Tootsie. After posting the chart I was able to find a reference to pensions, and it would be the 8th house, ruled by Saturn exalted in libra in the 5th. It isn't very active but will achieve a trine with neptune before changing signs (is this helpful to me, though?). Mars in 2nd is closing in on a square to sature. I, being the ascendent, am represented by mercury in the 4th separating from the sun's beams in Leo, approaching a sextile to saturn but refraining before concluding and turning direct. (Could relate to this perhaps, having no strength in the matter and coming close without achieving my end, changing course). My money is represented by 2nd ruler moon coming to a conjunction with jupiter in the 12th. Jupiter rules "the other side", would this be the government? Interesting that the 2nd/8th cusps are just in a 0 degree, could this mean a recent changing of the situation? Also, pluto precisely on the 8th cusp, could this mean a change in the law (there have been proposals to eliminate this law every year, backed by just about everyone who wants to look good but it is always presented on a VOC moon and never gets anywhere)? The moon is coming to a trine with this pluto. Moon intercepted in the 12th, what could that mean? Also, the moon approaches a sextile to mars in the 2nd of my money. So, what is the final countdown? Does it look like I will be able to get it or not?
Thanks

ElenaJ said:

Thanks Tootsie. After posting the chart I was able to find a reference to pensions, and it would be the 8th house, ruled by Saturn exalted in libra in the 5th. It isn't very active but will achieve a trine with neptune before changing signs (is this helpful to me, though?). Mars in 2nd is closing in on a square to sature. I, being the ascendent, am represented by mercury in the 4th separating from the sun's beams in Leo, approaching a sextile to saturn but refraining before concluding and turning direct. (Could relate to this perhaps, having no strength in the matter and coming close without achieving my end, changing course). My money is represented by 2nd ruler moon coming to a conjunction with jupiter in the 12th. Jupiter rules "the other side", would this be the government? Interesting that the 2nd/8th cusps are just in a 0 degree, could this mean a recent changing of the situation? Also, pluto precisely on the 8th cusp, could this mean a change in the law (there have been proposals to eliminate this law every year, backed by just about everyone who wants to look good but it is always presented on a VOC moon and never gets anywhere)? The moon is coming to a trine with this pluto. Moon intercepted in the 12th, what could that mean? Also, the moon approaches a sextile to mars in the 2nd of my money. So, what is the final countdown? Does it look like I will be able to get it or not?
Thanks

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Hi - A bit late - I missed this one - but to answer your query about what planets to use to judge this question, can I say I always use the govt ruler as 10 ruler, yes, and the govt's money is 11 ruler (ie 2nd from the 10th).

8 ruler is 'any other' person's money but the govt is given the 10th House so it stands to reason that the 11th House ruler signifies their wealth/$. If you were looking at your child's wealth, you would take 5 ruler for your child and 6 ruler for his/her wealth. And yes, 2 ruler is your 'pocket' here signified by the Moon.

You would look to see if there was an aspect between Moon or 1 ruler or 2 ruler with 10 and 11 rulers.

Here you've got Moon (you and your pocket) applying to conjunct 11 ruler Jupiter so that is one positive for you in the future. Moon is Exalted, too, being in Taurus so, if you'd thought of giving up, I'd recommend you don't - you have the strength to get somewhere here. How many times have you appealed? Can you appeal their decision again? Can you get your own govt to put some pressure on them?

The Moon and Jupiter being in the 12th of institutions describes your situation here. Also 1 ruler Mercury being combust also describes the way the international agreement has been 'combusted' leaving you 'burnt.' I admit, that's a big negative and it doesn't look good but the aspect is there and you're in good condition which would be enough for me to recommend you keep going because something will come of it.

Just noticed, too, that 11 ruler (govt $) is at 10Taurus and so is in YOUR Terms, ie Mercury's Terms. This is also helpful. __________

Thank you. This gives me courage to try again. I can still appeal.
Wonder if my chances are better with the US or the country I live in?
How to read that in the chart? Is it possible?

Hi, Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you. I would wait and maybe ask again after the full moon in Taurus on the 10th.....maybe we can get a different perspective on everything.
Tootsie

Another disappointing chart WITH THE SN IN THE ASCENDING SIGN!! Which is my only real stricture against judging a horary, because the SN in the ascending sign always gives confusion, misapprehension of the chart, or surprises and disappointments (Ankara horary-Ottoman astrology-believed that the SN in the ascending sign of a horary always = a no answer regardless of all other testimonies in the chart)

ElenaJ said:

Thank you. This gives me courage to try again. I can still appeal.
Wonder if my chances are better with the US or the country I live in?
How to read that in the chart? Is it possible?

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Hi Elena - Good for you! If it's not over yet, you might just have enough in that chart to do something about it - especially since you're entitled to it.

The chart shows your 'life' ie the 1st House afflicted at the moment - so this is Italy where you are at the moment. However, with the Nodes, the positive or beneficial one is ALWAYS opposite the negative - and coincidentally the 7th House also rules 'the other place' from where you are at the moment .... so I would say this means 'the other place' would be a better place to start (based on this chart) - 7th House with the North Node in it. (And I would never base a whole judgment entirely on the basis of where the South Node was.)

More importantly, though, 7 ruler is Jupiter, the same as 11 ruler so this indicates that the 'other place' is another indicator of where the pension will come from since the Moon is applying to Jupiter and, as I said before, Jupiter is in 1 ruler Mercury's Term and the Moon is Exalted in Taurus.

When I first looked at the chart, I wondered if you were thinking of finding someone to do some pro bono legal work for you and approach the country of origin.

Also, from a common sense point of view, and quite apart from the chart, I would say your country of origin would be the best place to start this appeal too. After all, they made the agreement with the country you're living in ... they might have more 'official' sway in the matter because of the legal and binding agreement they have with your country of origin to provide this benefit for you.

Go for it, and good luck! Let us know if you have success eventually. _______

Thank you Auarius358 for your reply. The fight for ssi seems to always be long and drawn out...no matter what country a person lives in. The reason I suggested asking again after the full moon is because the moon is happier in taurus and gemini....not so good now. I didn't check the different aspects with the planets....and I've never read anything about the south-node having to do with the outcome in a horary chart. I've read about how it has to do with a natal chart. South node where your coming from north node where you need to improve and work on. Dr farr please explain further the south node in horary....for learning purposes. I've never heard of anyone using it in a horary. It has no light or anything......it is just a point.
Tootsie

Dr. farr, So...what are you saying that everyone that asks a question after the 10th it is going to be a no.....because sn is by the ac. I just don't see this....sorry. Horary is more than the darn south node. In fact, Lily didn't even mention it....what in the hell system are you using????? It isn't horary. However, one never knows what time and day or the date the querent will ask the question...which of course changes the ac and everything else. So, is it that no matter who asks a question @ what time or day their question is doomed for a no??? I don't buy this, and I need an explanation. How could you know when she would ask about her pension?
Tootsie

Gerard of Cremona, and later H.C. Agrippa, claimed that the Dragon's Tail in the ascending sign gives chaos to the interpretation of the chart, and therefore any horary chart with the SN in the ascending sign is untrustworthy for reliable delineation and = a "stricture" against judgement.
I have found this to be true. In standard horary, the SN in the querent's signifying house (the 1st) is looked upon as an ill omen; the oldtime Ottoman astrology (which I call the Ankara horary tradition) took the SN in the 1st house to always mean a no answer to the question; however, I cannot go along with this-because I've seen yes results when the indications in the chart were decidedly for a no, just as I have seen no (negative) results when the indications in the chart seemed decidedly yes, IF the SN were in the ascending sign in those charts. That is why I do not attempt to delineate horaries IF the Dragon's Tail posits the ascending sign (which in whole sign = the first house) in that chart.

What in the hell system do I use in horary? Primarily the Ottoman astrology approach (Ankara), much of which can be found in early Islamic horary authors such as Al-kindi, Abu Mashar, Al-Biruni, Ibn Ezra, Thabit ibn Qurra; but modified by Gerard of Cremona, Bonatti (somewhat), and my own insights. That is why at the head of all my horary delineations here on AW I post a specific disclaimer about what I am presenting, so that newbies and students do NOT get confused and misunderstand that what they are about to read is standard (lillyesque) horary. My approach to horary delineation has offended some of our friends here on AW, but I am not advocating my approach, nor trying to convince anyone about anything! Its just the way I do it, which seems to work well for me!

What in the hell system!!! That is what you should call it!
I love your approach Dr. Farr.
I have taken to not reading charts with south node in the first house also. You are not the only one who doesn't read south node in 1st charts on here either. Bob Zemco listed that south node in the 1st is a no go also for him(also ascendant via combusta) in the Why does horary have strictures thread. I have that thread bookmarked.

ElenaJ, sorry about your pension. I hope it works out for you. Keep appealing!

Thanks to all for the encouraging words.
Next week I'll be leaving for the states, and will be in a better position to consult someone legally, being on the spot. And you've given me the courage and hope to do it!
About the SN discussion, I understood that the 7th would be the astrologer and reading so that having SN there (in 7th) would make the reading dubious, having the north node there does the contrary.
In theory, the SN in 1st would indicate the difficult situation of the person asking (me in this case, which is true).
Having North Node in the 7th here could also indicate the strength of the other party (SSI), but also luck from a legal cause.
Anyone agree with this?
PS. Poor dr. Farr doesn't really deserve a dressing down, does he? Each of us is using whatever system seems right, and they are not necessarily all the same system. A great way to gain further insight by hearing solutions from different systems and comparing them.

ElenaJ said:

T... Next week I'll be leaving for the states, and will be in a better position to consult someone legally, being on the spot. And you've given me the courage and hope to do it! ...

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That's great news! Good luck! I look forward to hearing the outcome in due course to see if my prediction that you'll get somewhere is right or not. It's all very useful data and without people like you putting up questions, we'd not have that data! Cheers____

Hey, I guess I shouldn't have gotten on Dr. Farrs case so bad, did feel bad about it after. It just ruffled my feathers given you such a severe "no" without much explanation when I know you need this money to come through. We all have different methods of delination & I suppose the sn should be considered in some respects.
Wishing you the best of luck!!
Tootsie

Remember that I was only commenting on the chart after updates came in; notice that I did not attempt to delineate the original chart at all (even by such things as the Magic 8 Ball!), because the SN in the ascending sign is THE stricture vs judgement-for me-and I never even attempt to delineate a horary if I find that THING (the SN) in the ascending sign.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I do NOT believe that the SN in the ascending sign necessarily means a "no" (although in this case, after the update, it appeared to have that meaning) I believe, rather, that the SN in the ascending sign lends a chaotic element to chart interpretation, and that is why I simply avoid trying to delineate such charts.

Tootsie, I was in no way offended by your post! Many of my concepts and practices-especially in the horary field- can be shocking when first read, and of course many of our friends disagree with some of them-that is never a problem to me! That quote, "what the hell system", tempts me to start referring to my alternative horary approach as the "what the hell?" horary system-might be a better term!

Dr. Farr, I owe you an apology...sorry. There is a lag time from post and when I get my email of replies...thus...I'm editing my post...good to hear that you weren't offended the other night. I'm still learning and studying astrology...it's amazing you learn something new everyday!! Looking forward to reading some more of your replies to the different questions that are posted on the form...smile. Maybe, next time I won't say "what in the hell system are you using?"....chuckle.
T

Thank you, but you don't owe me an apology! I am glad to have discussions with you!

Thanks!!
T

Thanks to all.
I will let you know how things turn out so you can all verify the charts.
Also, we are going because we are getting married on my birthday (November 17), the chart was under another thread which I had help with, so I'm doubly in debt here! I will take longer to know how that one works out though!