Why Pluto is a Planet and One of Great Astrological Effect

Greetings.

It's basically rather simple as to why, although it did take me some time to realize it but in my defense I hadn't really gotten around to reading all the more recently compiled data regarding the Planet, until this past day, that is.

Pluto isn't a Planet in the sense the other known Planets of our Solar System are. Pluto/Charon is a "Dual Planet".
Yes it is, despite what arguments you will hear to the contrary. ...and you are all much better off not listening to astronomers on this matter but rather an astrologer, in particular, me.

Why? For the main, and most obvious reason that astronomers won't admit there is such a thing as astrological influences...not publicly, anyways.

Pluto and Charon mutually orbit one another. The barycenter of this orbit is apprx 960 km from the surface of Pluto, thus Charon is not a slave to, not subdued, by the influence of Pluto. Rather it adds to, or more politically correct to say that, the two, together, add up their influences for a combined, singular, effect of influence.

As the gravitational field generated by the two is all inclusive of the space circumscribed by the boundary of their mutual orbit is certainly a reality and one to be reckoned with by any object entering that field that is lesser in size and, or, mass, That the gravitational field is only the known to be verified field, or area, of acknowledged acceptance by scientists [I am assuming that Pluto Charon has no magnetic field as like Venus and Mercury haven't either] that doesn't mean that it doesn't have any other type, or kind, of influence within that same orbital region...just as science won''t admit to any of the attributes of the other Planets that we astrologers all know all too well to actually exist and do have noticable effects of influence and at times seemingly compulsory at that.


Here I am just going to copy and paste what I wrote to a fellow forum member a couple of hours ago...rather than try to write some original copy...it's now very late. or very earlier, regardless of what it is, I'm rather tired and need sleep.

...copied and pasted as follows....

The gravitational field generated by their orbiting one another [note that Charon isn't slave to Pluto's core center, but that they are both of effect on one another as for the reason as to where the barycenter is, i.e. some 960 km outside of the surface of Pluto.]
Thus the entire field within the orbital parameter of the two is, and must, be considered to be of Planetary influence.
The radius of our own planet Earth is but 6,738 km at the equator [22 km less at the poles] and the orbital circumference of Pluto and Charon is 19,571 [+ or - 4] km
...and that argument that Jupiter Saturn, Uranus and Neptune immensely dwarf Pluto is much more propaganda than truth in that all four are Gas Giants... the solid core of Jupiter is but 20 times the size of Earth and not the 100's most will try to have you believe. Gas is just that, GAS... Gas has no gravitational pull or effect of any measure other than nearly negligible at best.
It must be understood and kept in fore thought that it isn't the planet itself that exerts astrological influence. It is the Constellations that do and that particular force that is unique to each Constellation, is only felt by way of the Planets [or Asc. House cusp, Node of the Moon, Lilith] and in particular by way of that Planet of aspect which acts as the filter, or lens, however you wish to describe it, as without which that particular Constellation isn't of any affect at all.
Thereby one has to assume that Pluto is of far greater effect than those of our nearest three planets.... POSSIBLY.... as they are nearer one might also assume they then have some greater influence derived from that...but, I already know enough as I have seen enough of just how powerful Pluto's influence is when a person who is born under the influence of Pluto has a particularly powerful aspect in perfect or near to perfect conjunction.
Such as Yeshu'a/Jesus and "Miss X", aka Khris Toyra, [Her maiden name and she, only very recently, informed me that anonymity is no longer of any concern to her] not to mention myself, but I have Pluto conj. my mid haven by more than a 3* orb, yet even so I am aware of the proclivities given to such a conjunction as described by the authors Sakoian and Acker.
...though they be a bit diluted, or muted, for want of a better description.

...end of copied and pasted message...

In my conclusion regarding all the foregoing evidence.... Pluto is indubitably a Planet and anyone that believes otherwise just isn't an astrologer, or certainly not worthy of the title... imho, OF COURSE

Let the wailing and the gnashing of teeth begin...

Here is a gif, video image that depicts the mutual orbiting of the two, Pluto and Charon, the "Double Planet"

"A simulated view of the Pluto–Charon system showing that Pluto orbits a point outside itself. Also visible is the mutual tidal locking between the two bodies."



Page URL:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pluto-Charon_system-new.gif

File URL:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Pluto-Charon_system-new.gif

Attribution:
cc Tomruen [CC BY-SA 4.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0)], from Wikimedia Commons

Just a reminder to designate your thread meme-free, or off-topic meme-free, so discourse does not get hijacked by a flow of semi-related and off topic memes.

GemwDepth said:

Just a reminder to designate your thread meme-free, so discourse does not get hijacked by a flow of semi-related and off topic memes.

Click to expand...

As to this particular thread, i don't beieve it to be necessary because the truth in the reality of the situation is so easy to see...at least once it has been pointed out and explained, that is.

While I'm certainly not a great writer by any means or even memes [all intended, puns and otherwise] I think I have done an adequate job in explaning my deliberations and reasoning that lead to a irrefutable answer as to whether, from an astrologers standpoint, Pluto is a planet or not.

Let 'em post a million memes...the Truth will still stand out for all to see and understand in the initial post...so why would anyone continue reading from this point on?

Like I stated in post #1, they certainly ain't much of, or should even consider trying to become...

...why don' I let you have the honor of posting a meme in ref to what I said?
Be my quest, I would be honored if you did so.


Oh and P.S. As far as I'm concerned, this thread is closed. the truth always has the final say, no matter what just as haters will be...you know.
I won't be back to even peek at this thread...unless you do post that meme I invited you to. I do appreciate creative efforts that are for the good and I was an "Art Major" for many years in school and out of courtesy, one artist to another. in artistic critique for the purpose of encouraging creative endeavors and possibly improving their prospects of achieving intended purpose.

If gas exerts little gravitational pull, then why is Jupiter such a power?

There are many facts about Pluto that I use in understanding the nature of Pluto.

Pluto, as PV mentions, is a binary planet. Therefore it, along with Mercury -- with whom Pluto shares some attributes -- rules all things binary in nature, such as bipolar disorder, bisexuality, strongly polarized affairs. Pluto is in all senses dualistic, but frequently tilts toward one pole (extreme) or the other.

Pluto's orbit is unique in several ways:
A) it is by far the most eccentric of orbits. Far out! B) Pluto's orbit has a much higher inclination to the ecliptic (17 deg.) than any other. Out of the plane of the conventional.
C) Pluto's orbit is in synch with Neptune's in the ratio of 2:3. In the year 2021 the US experiences its first Pluto Return while Neptune opposes its natal position...and Uranus is very prominent. I think it will be an "interesting" year in the Chinese sense.

Pluto is the only one of the 10 astrological bodies to pass over every single degree of the zodiac 3 times in the course of its orbit. Implacable. Obsessive.

Etc.

GemwDepth said:

Just a reminder to designate your thread meme-free, or off-topic meme-free, so discourse does not get hijacked by a flow of semi-related and off topic memes.

Click to expand...

Let me put it this way [and just a reminder to anyone whom is basically confused, for example, as per regarding the difference between physics and metaphysics. In the same way gravity and the lack ,or over abundance, of it has nothing to do with astrological matters of influence or the intensity of the influence any particular body has, or might not have. For example, an Astrological Part, the Moons' Nodes, Lilith, are just a few I can think of at the moment...anyways... "NUFF SAID]

Planets and such do not "influence" us. They merely reflect the condition of the cosmos at any given moment, and because the universe is One...well, as Jung said, "Anything born of a given moment is of the nature of that moment." I will go Jung one better: we are not just "of the nature" of our birth moment -- we ARE that moment made flesh.

In reading natal charts I use Pluto for the simple reason that it adds a lot of explanatory power, whether in the natal chart or by transit.

I look at both traditional and modern sign rulers in nativities and their derivatives.

Pluto square sun in a nativity or by transit is really powerful-- and difficult.

In horary I use Pluto as a supplementary data point, if and where it adds interpretive value. I don't use it as a house ruler.

piercethevale said:

...why don' I let you have the honor of posting a meme in ref to what I said?
Be my quest, I would be honored if you did so.

Oh and P.S. As far as I'm concerned, this thread is closed. the truth always has the final say, no matter what just as haters will be...you know.
I won't be back to even peek at this thread...unless you do post that meme I invited you to. I do appreciate creative efforts that are for the good and I was an "Art Major" for many years in school and out of courtesy, one artist to another. in artistic critique for the purpose of encouraging creative endeavors and possibly improving their prospects of achieving intended purpose.

Click to expand...

Thanks PTV!

Here’s my very first, homemade meme to celebrate the beginning, and now closing of your thread.

GemwDepth said:

Thanks PTV!

Here’s my very first, homemade meme to celebrate the beginning, and now closing of your thread.

Click to expand...

Why thank you GemwDepth.
I'll have you know that Pluto is in my 9th House and nearly conjunct my M.C..

So I went back on my word...but I just wanted to see what you had posted as per my "invitation". Nice work although it's not really what I consider to be a meme.

I wish to thank Waybread too. We have both been members of this forum now for many years, although Waybread has been here longer, and I seem to remember was a mod when I first started posting here at AW forum. While we haven't always agreed on every issue Waybread has always displayed the utmost courtesy and decorum.

I wish to add that while Jupiter is a lot smaller than people realize when one strips away the gases that surround it...as I stated it's core is only about 20 times the size of Earth...the density of it's core is enormous. I don't have the exact figures, as I didn't bother to copy them down, but such density does exert a very strong gravitational effect... such as a Black Hole, which can be very small in size and yet have more gravitational effect than our own Sun.

It's the overall size of the area of effect a planet has that this thread is addressing. I, perhaps, shouldn't have mentioned the gravitational pull between Pluto and Charon as to emphasize their combined area of mutual effect?

Take for an example my own natal chart. To begin with I am affected by all the known Planets. As Trevor Ravenscroft stated in his book, "The Cup of Destiny"...which He obviously got from the archives of Rudolf Steiner....that there are those of us that "are particularly affected by astrology".

My natal Mercury is at 27* Aries 57' 02" and my natal Venus is located at 15* Aries 05; 53". Given that the range of each these two planets in conjunction aspect is known to be at a mark of eight degrees, by that rule the Natal Mercury of mine has influence to 19* Aries 57' 02", while natal Venus has influence to 23* 05' 53". Although they are by no measure conjunct to one another they do share a combined area of effect that is of a width of 02* 08' 51' and which is centered at 21* Aries 01' 27-8"... as it is somewhere within that last second of a degree.

That is what gives me a seventh point of effect in a twelve point matrix that I was born with and which was completed by transit back in 2008. It's that combined area of influence that allows that to happen.

I pointed out in the thread of mine titled "Birth Chart of Jesus?", and in my book, that the natal chart has Moon at 29* Virgo 29' 24", the Asc. at 00* Libra 43' 17", Pluto at 00" Libra 58' 02', and that the Septile matrix found on that chart which has four of the seven points complete at birth is focused on the Asc..
Marc Edmond Jones wrote that the Septile is an aspect of fatality... well, that is one of the things it can be a concern of when it involves the Asc..
Because of Pluto and the Moon being conjunct to that Asc., Pluto by less than one quarter of a degree and the Moon in the adjoining degree and thus conjunct by adjoining degree, and thus by which given that the area between Pluto and the Moon was 01* 32' 38", which is 00* 32' 38" wider than a degree, gave his septile matrix that much more of an allowable orb all around the chart... as to any object to have contributed to the completion of that matrix at birth and, or, by transit and very likely by progression as well.

As I have demonstrated in a few threads that the septile matrix was completed, i.e. the empty three points which so happened to be every other points beginning in Capricorn, on the very day that Rudolf Steiner said the death of the physical body occurred, i.e. on the 14th day after his birthday. [and it may interest some to note that with the creation of the gregorian calendar that "Good Friday'' is now the 13th of April in that year 35 A.D. {or C.E. for those that prefer.}]

The question here is not whether Pluto is a planet of effect... at least it isn't to those of us that know it is of effect... but how large the planet is overall.
That and anything else a binary planet may be particularly influential over.
...and, at this present time, I don't think that necessarily gives it rulership over all things binary in nature. If it is so do we then usurp Gemini from that role assigned to it? Does Pluto in some way compliment it? All of that has yet to be determined.

We are essentially binary creatures ourselves as we have both a physical and a spiritual body and perhaps even more than binary when one gives consideration to the soul.

My point here, as to the initial purpose of this thread, is to address the cries that Pluto is some sort of dwarf and thus doesn't qualify to be considered an astrological influence.

It matters not as to the distance as it does orbit about our Sun. What amount of power of effect a binary planet does have is an altogether new issue to be resolved. I personally think it is way more than most people might yet be able to imagine.

Thank you for your support and may God bless.
Eternal Light and Love be yours [E L & L] ptv

Pluto is again farther in orbit from the sun than Neptune, since the 2 celestial bodies (Pluto a dwarf planet and Neptune one of the 4 largest planets) switch places in 1999, this happens every 2 decades or 20 years. I hafta say there's a huge astrological effect on us when Neptune and Pluto trade (8th or 9th) places in their orbits around the sun...whether positive or negative for some of us.

In ancient terms, Osirus/Hades/Pluto wasn't about the death of the physical body. It was about the Afterlife of the Soul, and the Egyptian version was about reincarnation. Materialists don't believe in an immortal Soul, which makes Pluto superfluous to them.

piercethevale said:

In my conclusion regarding all the foregoing evidence.... Pluto is indubitably a Planet and anyone that believes otherwise just isn't an astrologer, or certainly not worthy of the title... imho, OF COURSE

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That's a rather radical statement and I am assuming you are just trying to stimulate conversation. The way I see it, the question "Is Pluto an astrological planet" misses the point a bit. I think a much betterer question would be "Why do astrologers need Pluto?" and depending on what kind of astrology you are practicing, you'll come up with different answers.

Personally, do I think Pluto is an astrological planet? Yes. There has been done some extensive work on the harmonics of the spheres and despite the weirdness of Pluto's orbit and size and such things, from a mathematical perspective, Pluto has its rightful place among all the other 'official' planets. Can Pluto add additional valuable information? Yes. But do I absolutely need Pluto for my astrological work. No.

Just my latest 2 cents on this perpetual debate.

greybeard said:

Planets and such do not "influence" us. They merely reflect the condition of the cosmos at any given moment, and because the universe is One...well, as Jung said, "Anything born of a given moment is of the nature of that moment." I will go Jung one better: we are not just "of the nature" of our birth moment -- we ARE that moment made flesh.

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Very nice! This basically shows that arguing from a position of modern physics for or against Pluto as an astrological planet is essentially a context mix.

muchacho said:

That's a rather radical statement and I am assuming you are just trying to stimulate conversation. The way I see it, the question "Is Pluto an astrological planet" misses the point a bit. I think a much betterer question would be "Why do astrologers need Pluto?" and depending on what kind of astrology you are practicing, you'll come up with different answers.

Personally, do I think Pluto is an astrological planet? Yes. There has been done some extensive work on the harmonics of the spheres and despite the weirdness of Pluto's orbit and size and such things, from a mathematical perspective, Pluto has its rightful place among all the other 'official' planets. Can Pluto add additional valuable information? Yes. But do I absolutely need Pluto for my astrological work. No.

Just my latest 2 cents on this perpetual debate.

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Thanks, very thoughtful. As a "maverick" astrologer, I'm using what I'm calling the 12/12 pattern. Pluto's rate of motion, and the fact that it approaches closer to the Sun than Neptune, makes it the perfect Domicle-ruler for the Fixed-Water sign in 12/12. In case you're wondering, I'm including the 2 "contextual" points, the Ascendant and the Age-indicator, as Domicle-rulers of Mutable-Fire (most changeable sign) and Fixed-Earth (least changeable), respectively. That provides a clear pattern of one-on-one Domicled rulership, and information on sign/ruler relationships using the Elements and Modalities. Good results so far, but not without standard practices as well, such as Aspects. It's a different angle of view from the Traditional 7/12 Domicled pattern, and the standard, Modern, 10/12 pattern (which I feel lacks consistency). So, in conclusion, I find Pluto indispensable for my readings, although I don't give it as much power and authority as many Modern astrologers are according it--Saturn's still the one I view as cautionary.
Amazing how many versions of astrology can be made to work by so many individual astrologers!

waybread said:

In reading natal charts I use Pluto for the simple reason that it adds a lot of explanatory power, whether in the natal chart or by transit.

I look at both traditional and modern sign rulers in nativities and their derivatives.

Pluto square sun in a nativity or by transit is really powerful-- and difficult.

In horary I use Pluto as a supplementary data point, if and where it adds interpretive value. I don't use it as a house ruler.

Click to expand...

I have pluto in first house trine midheaven am i magnetic or attractive?

muchacho said:

That's a rather radical statement and I am assuming you are just trying to stimulate conversation. The way I see it, the question "Is Pluto an astrological planet" misses the point a bit. I think a much betterer question would be "Why do astrologers need Pluto?" and depending on what kind of astrology you are practicing, you'll come up with different answers.

Personally, do I think Pluto is an astrological planet? Yes. There has been done some extensive work on the harmonics of the spheres and despite the weirdness of Pluto's orbit and size and such things, from a mathematical perspective, Pluto has its rightful place among all the other 'official' planets. Can Pluto add additional valuable information? Yes. But do I absolutely need Pluto for my astrological work. No.

Just my latest 2 cents on this perpetual debate.

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Actually, I consider very, very, few people worthy of being called an "Astrologer" at this present time.

Why? It's because I agree with the late, 20th century American, clairvoyant Edgar Cayce who spoke of how astrology as it is presently practiced does one far more harm than good. Studies of the readings made available to the public [which I seem to recall is about 66% to 75% of the total of readings He gave in his lifetime] have shown to demonstrate that most people are only affected by, from. 3 to 6 of the 9 known of planets... and, yes, there are more yet to be "discovered" and Cayce made mention of that also.

He said that Astrology is one of the greatest studies a person may pursue but in the way it was known in a time of great antiquity. It has been greatly corrupted over many, many, centuries. He did give indications that some were still practicing true astrology as late as the time the, so called, "Prince of Peace" was born...and those "Magi" that came to call bearing gifts certainly had possession of it ...or enough of it so as to have known what was happening. The Essene's, of which Yeshu'a of Nazareth was born among, were studying the "real deal"... unfortunately that knowledge disappeared with them.
It can be re-ascertained and I believe that it will and it is in that cause as to which I serve. I only utilize that which proves to me, without any doubts, does "work" as to astrological technique and by proper interpretation and if and when I do use any technique that I'm still not 100% convinced of I always make mention of it. My present interest in Astrological Parts is one that has many uncertainties about it but has demonstrated to me to be of such an underrated influence as to be one to give such concerned effort. The Astrological Parts have proven to me to be of profound revelatory insight as to any person, or nation, as to what they correspond by their Sign and degree as to what that has in association with the assigned Sabian Symbol for that Tropical Zodiacal reference point. For example the natal chart I am most convinced of is the true natal chart of that "Prince of Peace" has as its Part of Fortune the 19th degree of Pisces... and the Sabian Symbol for the 19th deg. of Pisces is "A MASTER INSTRUCTS HIS DISCIPLE" ...the 19th deg. of Pisces just so happens to also be my natal Part of Inheritance and Legacy.

When Pluto conjuncted both the Part of Repression and the Part of Termination of the USA's natal chart [Repression at 08* Cap. 42' 41", Termination at 07* 58' 12"] was an astrological event I warned of here in this forum and I predicted that the day that Pluto was conjunct the Part of Repression, December 14, 2012 was a date to watch for any major news event that had the markings of a "False Flag" event... specifically one of a mass shooting nature...as I wrote that "Termination" was usually followed by "Repression" ...especially if that termination was one that terminated any of the amendments to our Constitution... 'The Right to Bear Arms" I also pointed to April 15th and 18th of the following year to be aware of for as to when Uranus would conjunct the USA's natal part of Transformation on the 15th and the Part of Personal Liberty on the 18th of April, 2013.
...I can find and provide the link to the thread in which I did make these predictions but a number of the forums members know of these and I shouldn't need to ...as I have pointed them out a few times since... but I made these predictions in early October of 2012.

The tragedy at Sandy Hook, occurred on Dec. 14th, 2012 and 20 minutes before Pluto was "perfectly" conjunct the USA's natal charts' Part of Repression.... it was only one or two seconds of a degree from being perfect.

On April 15th the following year the bombing at the Boston Marathon occurred and on the 18th Martial Law was all but declared in Boston in the pursuit of the alleged suspects of that bombing... Uranus conjunct the Part of Personal Liberty... need I say more?
Thus, I have demonstrated that Astrological Parts are also predictive... much to the irritation of a number of "Traditional" astrologers as I was challenged by a few at the ACTAstrology web site that I was a member of ...that has since ceased to exist... to prove that I had any reason to make predictions as such utilizing Astrological Parts. As there are in fact two threads in which I made those predictions for 2012 and 2013 here at this forum I provided them with links to both threads...and, oddly, the website vanished from the internet soon after...go figure?

I invite you to read what I have posted in the degree symbolism sub-forum. It is a thread I titled, "The Birth Chart of Jesus?' and you will find why I am most assured of Pluto's status as a planet and one not to be overlooked or easily dismissed as not being necessary for astrological natal interpretation and prediction...and btw, that Part of Repression is found by the formula Asc. + Saturn - Pluto... the Part of Termination by Asc. + Uranus - Neptune, the Part of Transformation by Asc. + Uranus - Mars, and the Part of Personal Liberty by the formula Asc. + Sun - Mercury.
Three Astrological Parts that between the three of them utilize all three of the trans-Saturnian planets.... and that were affected, and most demonstrably, by conjunctions with the planet Pluto and Uranus.... and a fourth, the Part of Personal Liberty, a Sun/Merc. production, quite effectively triggered by Uranus.

I would easily wager that you are not personally affected by the planet Pluto... in any forecast made for your own self you are doing yourself a good favor by not including any considerations as to Pluto's transits...however, I have found some evidence that a planet that is not of influence to a person does possibly still have effect when said planet is conjunct, or in any aspect, to a planet that is an influence... in that the planet that is not personally of an influence is making an influence upon the planet that is of effect... if I ever get enough conclusive evidence to come out and make such a statement this forum will be the first to hear of it.

Did Casey say not to use tropical Signs?

jewellovescatz said:

I have pluto in first house trine midheaven am i magnetic or attractive?

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You might be utterly gorgeous, but it wouldn't be because of this aspect. I think this aspect would make you ambitious.