Why your ascendant is probably wrong!

capuranusnep

Well-known member
Ok so random though I was born 7:23 am7 degrees saggitarius rising in my preferred chart. I act like a saggitarius rising mixed with a Scorpio rising. Would you attribute this to an earlier spiritual birthtime or my stellium in the previous sign of Scorpio. (The stellium already accounts for why I act like a Scorpio sun). I look like a Capricorn Scorpio Aries mix. My Jupiter is in Aries. Mars in Capricorn. Pluto in Scorpio.

I would tell you but I am not sure. What is your "preferred chart" I have seen your posts, and I cannot tell what your actual tropical geocentric chart is. To tell you what the possibilities are I would need to see your regular geocentric tropical chart.
 

Whoam1

Well-known member
I can make a new post when I get home. Personality wise I don't agree with my tropical chart. I'm not here to bastardise astrology, I still use tropical on everyone else I know. I'm just that unlucky guy whoes sidereal chart is more accurate (people see my sidereal signs and placements over my tropical signs and placements).
 

david starling

Well-known member
I can make a new post when I get home. Personality wise I don't agree with my tropical chart. I'm not here to bastardise astrology, I still use tropical on everyone else I know. I'm just that unlucky guy whoes sidereal chart is more accurate (people see my sidereal signs and placements over my tropical signs and placements).

In India, it would be the other way around. :biggrin:
 

waybread

Well-known member
I consider the whole chart and how it can change the physical looks, personality, and demeanor. Including the luminaries, and rulerships, and aspects.



I understand being skeptical, but I place importance on the "proper" birth time so then we have all the correct angle and house cusps positions(to the exact degree). Also so that we have the correct aspects to the angles. I don't generalize, especially since I think generalizing has tarnished the pratice of astrology.

I think there are a lot of cases where chart rectification, even given a hospital record or birth certificate, makes sense. But it isn't necessary to paste a spiritual overlay on rectification, or to question a registered birth time--timed to the minute, in order to make a rising sign meet expectations.

I vividly recall when my son was born in a hospital delivery room, there was a nurse standing by with a stop-watch.

As I noted above, a close hard aspect from another planet to the ascendant, or planets in the first house can have a big impact on how the first house plays out. We need to look at the planetary ruler of the ascendant, and its situation. If there are first house planets, what else in the chart is pinging on them? Once you've analyzed these influences, a lot of theoretically mismatched rising signs based upon cookbook delineations, simply go away.

Just for example, Libra rising is supposed to make for the gracious, if somewhat indecisive, diplomat. But we have an entire Pluto in Libra generation. Roughly 1/12 of them will have Pluto in the first house. Then some of them will be born with Mars square Pluto. And with Venus in Aries. What happens to Libra rising then? We're going to get someone who comes across as intense, and possibly combative. We don't need to "rectify" the ascendant into Scorpio just because we're not seeing the cookbook nicey-nice image of Libra in this person.
 
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Osamenor

Staff member
All, we received a few complaints about this thread when it was in its early stages. I apologize for taking so long to address it. Because of the nuances, I wanted to discuss it with other moderators, but none have responded. Since it's now been several days, I'll address it myself.

I see that the discussion has become civil, thanks to all of you. Keep up the good work! Reminder to all to keep it civil, always.

Early on, it was said that the OP is advertising. The blog article itself is not a for pay service, but if you're linking to a service you do for pay, or hoping to drive traffic to where you offer a paid service, you may not do so on Astrology Weekly except in these ways: a link in your signature, and/or one post, only once, in the Advertising subforum. And it must be an astrology service. Advertising for anything else, in any way, shape, or form, is spam and will earn an instant ban.

Because this topic has become a discussion in its own right, I see no need to delete or move it. However, if anyone does want to offer a paid astrology service, whether overtly or by a subtle means such as driving traffic to their own blog, which happens to be part of a website where they offer their services, they may not do so in a general post.
 
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Whoam1

Well-known member
All, we received a few complaints about this thread when it was in its early stages. I apologize for taking so long to address it. Because of the nuances, I wanted to discuss it with other moderators, but none have responded. Since it's now been several days, I'll address it myself.

I see that the discussion has become civil, thanks to all of you. Keep up the good work!

Early on, it was said that the OP is advertising. The blog article itself is not a for pay service, but if you're linking to a service you do for pay, or hoping to drive traffic to where you offer a paid service, you may not do so on Astrology Weekly except in these ways: a link in your signature, and/or one post, only once, in the Advertising subforum.

Because this topic has become a discussion in its own right, I see no need to delete or move it. However, if anyone does want to offer a paid service, whether overtly or by a subtle means such as driving traffic to their own blog, which happens to link to a website where they offer their services, they may not do so in a general post.

I'll attest to this post helping me! I was using my sidereal chart but bc of this I found out how my tropical chart actually works and i love it.
 

waybread

Well-known member
This is another good point. Sometimes people who feel that their charts do not fit, are using the tropical zodiac and then find that sidereal is a better match. Or they are using sidereal, and a simple move to the tropical zodiac suddenly makes the chart pop into place.
 

Whoam1

Well-known member
My mom spent 12 hours in labor I had to find my spiritual birt time which is about 1hr n 40 min before I popped out. This is a sag Asc. Conjunct Pluto. It puts my sun and moon in recessive houses which is y I don't relate to them, and the mid point of the two is in Scorpio which is the sign I resonate with the most. The mid point followed then Pluto tied with Jupiter run my chart not Saturn like my old rising. I'm a Scorpio Saggitarius dominant, followed by Aires then Aquarius and then the earth signs that I couldn't relate too in my older tropical chart.
 

muchacho

Well-known member
The only thing that counts is the moment of first breath. Up to that moment, the child is an extension of the mother. After that moment, the child has its own being, separate from the mother.
 

capuranusnep

Well-known member
I think there are a lot of cases where chart rectification, even given a hospital record or birth certificate, makes sense. But it isn't necessary to paste a spiritual overlay on rectification, or to question a registered birth time--timed to the minute, in order to make a rising sign meet expectations.

I vividly recall when my son was born in a hospital delivery room, there was a nurse standing by with a stop-watch.

As I noted above, a close hard aspect from another planet to the ascendant, or planets in the first house can have a big impact on how the first house plays out. We need to look at the planetary ruler of the ascendant, and its situation. If there are first house planets, what else in the chart is pinging on them? Once you've analyzed these influences, a lot of theoretically mismatched rising signs based upon cookbook delineations, simply go away.

Just for example, Libra rising is supposed to make for the gracious, if somewhat indecisive, diplomat. But we have an entire Pluto in Libra generation. Roughly 1/12 of them will have Pluto in the first house. Then some of them will be born with Mars square Pluto. And with Venus in Aries. What happens to Libra rising then? We're going to get someone who comes across as intense, and possibly combative. We don't need to "rectify" the ascendant into Scorpio just because we're not seeing the cookbook nicey-nice image of Libra in this person.

Yes, I understand. I include aspects to the ascendant, seeing as that they can have a strong influence, If you read the example part of the post you will see. I hate "cookbook" astrology as well. I look not only at appearance and demeanor, but also see how life events hold up against the angles and house cusps, and the rulers. I do recommend John Willner's books, very informative, even if you don't and never plan to believe in this concept.

Also, thanks a lot for not getting rude about this, just because we disagree.
 

Whoam1

Well-known member
Hey Cap., Did i send you a message explaining my redrawn chart, id like you to see it and tell me what you think.
 

capuranusnep

Well-known member
No it's right, I can actually relate to my tropical signs now. Attached image picture for @ cap.

This picture doesn't clearly show your face shape. I need a pic that shows your face clearly, preferably with color. I don't want to turn this thread into a pic thread so if you are unable to send it through the pm, contact me through my blog.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
My mom spent 12 hours in labor
I had to find my spiritual birt time
which is
about 1hr n 40 min
before I popped out.


This is a sag Asc. Conjunct Pluto. It puts my sun and moon in recessive houses which is y I don't relate to them, and the mid point of the two is in Scorpio which is the sign I resonate with the most. The mid point followed then Pluto tied with Jupiter run my chart not Saturn like my old rising. I'm a Scorpio Saggitarius dominant, followed by Aires then Aquarius and then the earth signs that I couldn't relate too in my older tropical chart.
keep in mind the moment of first breath :smile:
The only thing that counts
is the moment of first breath.
Up to that moment, the child is an extension of the mother.
After that moment, the child has its own being,
separate from the mother.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
This picture doesn't clearly show your face shape. I need a pic that shows your face clearly, preferably with color. I don't want to turn this thread into a pic thread so if you are unable to send it through the pm, contact me through my blog.
presumably according to your theory then
everyone has a spiritual birthchart
as well as
a time of the first breath natal chart
:smile:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

Who says the soul enters the body at the first breath.
Last time I checked none of us were god(s).
Time of birth is time when child had own being
separate from the mother
i.e.
first breath :smile:

The only thing that counts
is the moment of first breath.
Up to that moment, the child is an extension of the mother.
After that moment, the child has its own being,
separate from the mother.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Who says the soul enters the body at the first breath. Last time I checked none of us were god(s).

I think it's from the Latin word "Spiritus", which means both "breath" and "Spirit". Like in the Bible, where God creates Adam and brings him to life with his first breath.
The most prevalent alternative view is that the Soul enters the Zygote at the moment of conception (which is the religious reason for being against birth control pills). In Asia, they once used conception time for Astrology, instead of first breath. Very impractical, because who times THAT? :w00t:
 
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