After reading your response I only could see that you have failed to understand my point in relation to what you were saying, which has led you to make severe assumptions about my reasoning, taking them out of context, since they were including implicit information about the philosophical view you have on astrology and the way it works.
I am going to have to explain myself once again using what you said using explicit information, as you have demonstrated that you cannot understand implicit information and since you asked me to elaborate. We are discussing about Jupiter and Saturn. According to what you're defending:
"[...] There is no white without black, no yin without yang. The purpose of Saturn is absolutely natural and understandable, it is to balance Jupiter, the planet of optimism, philanthropy and wellness, with pessimism, misanthropy and misery. But it doesn't mean that I will love Saturn more just because I understand the necessity of this dichotomy. I don't think Saturn would care about my opinion anyway.
I assumed you stated this because Astrology is a pseudoscience that follows the criteria of creating harmony and balance of the planets in relation to the Sun, life and existence in the universe, as evidenced by countless sources that establish order, structure, balance and harmony between the planets, dividing the energies of the constellations and planets through the sky in 360 degrees, or in other words, a circle, which has a lot of meaning in ancient cultures as it represents whollyness and completion.
"Saturn doesn't give a d_amn is the trouble it causes will teach you anything, it will keep bothering you and everybody else because that is its purpose. [...] you can resolve the problem caused by Saturn and learn to never repeat it, but there wouldn't be any trouble to begin with if there were no Saturn."
What I drew from your statement was this:
1. Saturn does bad because its purpose is to be bad, there is no larger philosophy in the works here that justifies its actions on its own, as it relies merely on the existence of Jupiter, and even though you're really mad at me for putting words in your mouth which you didn't say, I'll assume the other planets also play a part in balancing the nature of Saturn.
2. Things would be better if Saturn weren't there, as, considering what you previously stated, his only purpose is to do bad.
and from this:
"[...] you can resolve the problem caused by Saturn and learn to never repeat it, but there wouldn't be any trouble to begin with if there were no Saturn."
Therefore:
3. Saturn is a planet or energy that has the capacity to do bad to humans and life, and his actions have no larger meaning than that, they cannot be taken as other than pure bad.
4. However, he does pose as a balanced energy when it is in contact with other planets.
But, why then
"[...] The purpose of Saturn is absolutely natural and understandable, it is to balance Jupiter, the planet of optimism, philanthropy and wellness, with pessimism, misanthropy and misery."
If you stated
"[...] there wouldn't be any trouble to begin with if there were no Saturn."
This implies Saturn, as an operative factor and on the consequences of its actions is valueless and bad, yet you admit that it creates a balance. And even so, fail to understand why this balance exists at all. I would suggest you to tell me exactly why you believe it creates balance if there's no good to it on its own. Wouldn't life be better if there were only Jupiter? Ultimately, if it creates balance and is needed to create such harmony with other forces, then you must get to the following conclusion:
5. Saturn is needed in order to create balance.
Now, before delving into specific descriptions of Saturn in order to understand better this evil or obscure energy, and before adding tints to its meaning, we'll explain what it means to create balance. I'm using concepts related to various philosophies such as ying yang, which you used yourself as a point of reference here
"There is no white without black, no yin without yang. [...] But it doesn't mean that I will love Saturn more just because I understand the necessity of this dichotomy."
And you are correct to use them, as they're very much the ancient concepts that are used in the creation and design of astrology.
Balance and harmony are concepts that originate from the realization of the nature of the events that occur in reality. Bad things (Saturn) and good things (Jupiter) are there so neither of them wins over the other. Good completes the meaning of bad and bad does that to good. It is this very neutral nature and characterization of reality that makes it meaningful.
So if Saturn can only be pure, trascendingly speaking, bad, then why would he play into a larger picture? Wasn't astrology based on balance and harmony?
The main conflict in what you are defending is that you fail to take bad as something deeper, and purely taken on its face-value
"[...] you can resolve the problem caused by Saturn and learn to never repeat it, but there wouldn't be any trouble to begin with if there were no Saturn."
Which is also the mistake made by the traditional astrology ideology on its entirety. If you yourself used the yin-yang philosophy as a reference point, then why would you take Saturn for its face value, considering the yin-yang reference is based on a deeper meaning?
6. The philosophy of bad and good is based on the idea that the existence of polar opposites is good
Therefore only what we view as "bad" and "good" together would create perfection. This would mean that bad is good in reality, because it actually plays into a larger purpose.
Which, in turn, means Saturn is good because it plays into a larger scheme. This also means Jupiter is good because it does the same and because Saturn exists in the first place.
Taking from what you said yourself:
"[...] you can resolve the problem caused by Saturn and learn to never repeat it, but there wouldn't be any trouble to begin with if there were no Saturn."
And finally, the statement above is proven false as without Saturn/evil people would still have problems as Jupiter on its own would be bad. So, I'm assuming you don't even understand the very concepts which you used as a reference point.
After establishing the basic points and concepts of the whole balance between the two energies, we'll see what the basic meanings of Saturn are, so that we are to truly understand what it represents in human life, and how the whole yin-yang philosophy is modified by analyzing the role the planet of Time plays. Starting by its glyph, Saturn is represented by the crescent below the cross, which represents reality over the soul, a pointer which tells us the basic material nature of man and existence. Taken from skyscript:
"Saturn is known as Father Time, and is concerned with old age, boundaries, limitations, and death."
"[...] Saturn is a response to Jupiter's galloping boundlessness, as illustrated by the fact that Saturn is weak in Jupiter's strongest sign of Cancer and Jupiter is weak in Saturn's own sign of dignity, Capricorn. Without Saturn we would have no boundaries. If Jupiter is "yes," Saturn is "no," telling us when to stop and how to mature through learning the purpose of self-denial and delaying of gratification. Through Saturn we learn our limitations, the greatest of which is our mortality, and that we have a finite length of time in which to fulfill our life's purpose. Thus Saturn is the planet of ambition, goals, and achievement, as embodied in his feminine rulership of Capricorn. It signifies the qualities needed to reach our goals- not just fight (Mars) or luck (Jupiter), but hard work, discipline, and perseverance. "
By this reference we can conclude that Saturn represents time as a concept that creates limitations and consequences, just as the second quote asserts.
However, I am once again obligated to assume you failed to understand this as you said:
"It wasn't a question, but still, thanks for taking your time to answer it. Yes, Saturn rules time because it also rules old age."
So it is once again proven false, considering you're taking old age as a plain concept which is not related to limitations and restriction. You're claiming that Saturn rules time as a consequence of ruling over old age, when in reality it's the other way around.
Once again, by what you said here:
"Saturn doesn't give a d_amn is the trouble it causes will teach you anything, it will keep bothering you and everybody else because that is its purpose."
You take Saturn face-value as a bad thing, but then say:
"But the non-existence of Saturn is impossible from a philosophical perspective imo. "
So you are indeed contradicting yourself, you cannot say first that Saturn is just plain bad but then assert that its part of a bigger theme. Your mistake is to take Saturn for granted.
You say Saturn is bad for the sake of it, yet you don't even think for a second that he has another side to it even though it was established a long time ago that it was part of a bigger picture. This becomes an even bigger problem in your reasoning and arguments when you state:
"I prefer to base my opinions on logic and reason, not on hearsay. If you favor the latter option, then so be it. I'm not saying I'm the only logical guy here, but that's not a valid argument on your part."
So I think I agree with the fact that you imply you're not the logical guy here. You keep replying, trying to create valid arguments using points of reference and concepts which you don't fully understand (such as Saturn, evil, time, balance with other planets, the philosophy of their meaning, etc.), yet, in your own words:
"I prefer to base my opinions on logic and reason, not on hearsay."
I'll briefly clarify that he is called the "Great Teacher" for all the reasoning I've said before, starting from the basic yin-yang philosophy. I figure you can understand the rest for yourself.
Now, onto what you said later:
"I never said that Jupiter is "the only good thing in the world" and I disagree with this opinion. Don't put words in my mouth."
In the very same set of words you're declaring you don't take Jupiter for its face-value and understand that it is not a perfect energy, however good it may seem to be at first, and yet, you then take Saturn's and Mars's meaning for face value in:
"Any planet can bring something good, even Mars and Saturn, however, it works against their original purpose so if they give something good, it's occasional and short-termed."
So by saying "if works against their original purpose" you're completely rejecting the idea that they have deeper meaning. I won't say for the millionth time why this is wrong, I'll just go on to the next point after saying that by declaring that Jupiter is perfect according to you, I was paraphrasing what you were using as the basic concept of Jupiter, which is taking it for face-value.
"if they give something good, it's occasional and short-termed"
You're accepting the fact that they may do good, and you also said there's a philosophy behind it all, so this statement goes as far as to prove your lack of understanding of the subject, because if astrology is meant to create a perfect balance and it also accepts the possibility of the seemingly malefics Mars and Saturn creating fortune and success, why would then they be able to do that if it weren't for the fact that doing good is part of its purpose? You don't even understand why they may do good, even though you accept it happens. By the way, I'm surprised you've read this post up to this point, whoever you are.
~Domo arigatou Mr. Roboto~
"Lol, that's ridiculous. Anything for a gotcha. When did I contradict myself? Just because I have my opinion which may even partially differ from the traditionalists'? Saturn can be good only if it is tamed. If it is dominated by Jupiter, for example, and is in its own sign, its abilities to inflict harm are diminished. This way it's not a destructive force. Saturn is at home in Capricorn and Aquarius because those are the signs of winter, so the soil where Saturn can grow is infertile. Cancer and Leo, however, determine the hottest time of the year during which Saturn has access to fertile soil and can do most harm."
You say your opinion differs from traditional astrologers but you are clearly saying exactly what a traditional astrologer would think, as evidenced by what William Lilly says in the "Aphorisms and Considerations for Better Judging any Horary Question"
"If Saturn or Mars are significators and they are in their own house, exaltation, triplicity and in angular houses, they perform the thing desired."
And then by Guido Bonatti's 146 considerations:
"The 39th is, To consider if the Significator be in Reception; for id it be a Fortune, its signification will thereby be much bettered, and its impediment and mischief much lessened if it be an Infortune. "
And now let's go to the next thing you said:
"Saturn can be good only if it is tamed."
Your mistake here is to not know what 'good' means. Saturn is good on its own because bad is there to be learned from. I time and time again told you that without misery and misfortune people wouldn't learn, and that's the way Saturn is tied to the yin-yang philosophy or the astrological philosophy, because bad and good coexist so there can be harmony.
Mainly, Saturn is good in a deeper meaning because it can be a source of knowledge. In a larger perspective, bad becomes good and good becomes bad as there needs to be balance.
[...] "But it's not the result of Saturn in itself, it's the result of other planets helping to solve the problems Saturn leaves behind. Saturn never brings easy success and it's never helpful on its own."
Here I won't find quotes from traditionals saying that he does good on his own, even if he does, as they also make the mistake of taking it for face-value. I could provide you with many examples of people with malefics that afflict their charts and yet have become successful and made many goods, as William Lilly would have said, but it would serve no purpose as you would only insist on it being on the good influence of the benefics. So, in order to recognize what the cause for success has been in many people nowadays, I'll leave you with a speech by J.K Rowling where she speaks about very Saturnian things, such as depression and povery and consequently, the things she's learned from those things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UibfDUPJAEU
Since you asked me to elaborate, I invite you to do the same. Please do go on and reply to everything I said.
mercury
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and 
