Houses of joy and sorrow ?
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waybread
Well-known member
I don't know exactly what this means. More generally:
A minor accidental dignity by house is the planetary "joys." Supposedly planets feel at home in them, and may get a minor boost in power. These go way back to ancient Hellenistic astrology, and I think there's an ancient Egyptian influence
sun: 9th house (The sun's meaning here was probably Apollo, god of prophecy.)
moon: third house (Called "the goddess moon," opposite the sun god.)
Mercury: first house (Egyptian scribe god Thoth supposedly headed the boat of Ra.)
Venus: 5th house (Equated to the Egyptian Hathor, goddess of pleasure and childbirth)
Mars: 6th house (lesser malefic in the 2nd-worst house)
Jupiter: 11th house (anciently, the house of the "good spirit")
Saturn: 12th house (anciently, house of the "bad spirit," the worst house.)
There is a kind of symmetry in the two malefics in opposite houses, and the two benefics in opposite houses. I haven't come across this, but possibly a planet in its opposite house to its joy was weakened.
Then the angular houses are extra-strong, the cadent 6th and 12th houses have a weakening effect along with the 8th house. Of the non-angular houses, the 9th is actually interpreted as beneficial, so I can't think of anything that would make it intrinsically harmful. It is cadent, but somehow that didn't seem to affect its reputation.
moon: 3rd house
A minor accidental dignity by house is the planetary "joys." Supposedly planets feel at home in them, and may get a minor boost in power. These go way back to ancient Hellenistic astrology, and I think there's an ancient Egyptian influence
sun: 9th house (The sun's meaning here was probably Apollo, god of prophecy.)
moon: third house (Called "the goddess moon," opposite the sun god.)
Mercury: first house (Egyptian scribe god Thoth supposedly headed the boat of Ra.)
Venus: 5th house (Equated to the Egyptian Hathor, goddess of pleasure and childbirth)
Mars: 6th house (lesser malefic in the 2nd-worst house)
Jupiter: 11th house (anciently, the house of the "good spirit")
Saturn: 12th house (anciently, house of the "bad spirit," the worst house.)
There is a kind of symmetry in the two malefics in opposite houses, and the two benefics in opposite houses. I haven't come across this, but possibly a planet in its opposite house to its joy was weakened.
Then the angular houses are extra-strong, the cadent 6th and 12th houses have a weakening effect along with the 8th house. Of the non-angular houses, the 9th is actually interpreted as beneficial, so I can't think of anything that would make it intrinsically harmful. It is cadent, but somehow that didn't seem to affect its reputation.
moon: 3rd house
Thanks Waybread, so these all look like the houses of joy here.
So if say moon was In scorpio in her fall, then as she was also posited in the 3rd house this would make her slightly happier ? Yes i think i've got it.
You've actually given me a fair bit of information here i wasn't aware of so id like to thank you again, i wasn't aware that the 9th house was interpreted as beneficial, but going on everything you've said it makes sense.
So it seems like the house of sorrows are the opposites, so the suns house of sorrow would be the 3rd, saturn 6th, jupiter 5th, venus 11th etc....?
Looking at the moons recent placement in Taurus, she is exalted, but if she is making aspects from the 6th house, would this house alone not be able to bring a desired result ? Or would the exaltation help with this ?
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waybread
Well-known member
There are so many issues to consider if you do traditional western astrology that some authors actually use a point system, assigning numbers to essential and accidental dignities and debilities with pluses and minuses. Perhaps that's not a bad way to start. But a really good horary astrologer once told me that really, the chart should tell a story or be a picture of the matter being inquired about.
You can get a situation of conflicting testimonies. Possibly there's an explanation that makes sense of them together; but sometimes I would just not give an answer, because I don't have a clear picture of what is happening.
Do you have a particular chart to post, that we can analyze?
You can get a situation of conflicting testimonies. Possibly there's an explanation that makes sense of them together; but sometimes I would just not give an answer, because I don't have a clear picture of what is happening.
Do you have a particular chart to post, that we can analyze?
So the moon in the 6th is applying to the msg from him(3rd from 7th) antiscion point at 8 degrees 54' Taurus, and also to mercury rx (himself).
So this is why i wasn't too sure about the 6th house application from the moon.
Saturn is in the 1st rx yes, but there seems to be too much going on in the chart for this to be a concern...so ive basically took into account of saturn ruling my 3rd house, which is a delay in communication.
Sun also trines my asc at the point of asking, but not sure what this could mean.
Mercury and jupiter are adjacent as we've not spoken or seen each other for a few weeks now.
waybread
Well-known member
I think that a good rule of thumb in horary is not to get distracted by planets or points that are not really the key players in the drama. So with your whole signs chart, You're Jupiter and he's Mercury. Mercury does not apply to a major aspect with Jupiter, nor are they sharing reception. However, the moon (applies) applies to a trine with Mercury. That's promising, but because the moon is the faster-moving planet, it appears that you are likely to contact him.
With relationship or "will he call me?" sorts of questions, you can see whether significators apply, separate, or make no contact.
We could knock a few points off of the moon for being in the 6th house; but she's exalted in Taurus, so she's got her strengths, and Jupiter picks up a little strength by being in its own terms and in-sect.
Saturn in the first house-- and here right on the ascendant-- can indicate that a matter will not go well for the querent. Also, while Jupiter's ruler Venus and Mercury look like they might form a nice sextile, Mercury is retrograde, and actually moving away from Venus. Quite possibly, you want a relationship to work out more than he does.
This relationship might have been "just one of those things."
With relationship or "will he call me?" sorts of questions, you can see whether significators apply, separate, or make no contact.
We could knock a few points off of the moon for being in the 6th house; but she's exalted in Taurus, so she's got her strengths, and Jupiter picks up a little strength by being in its own terms and in-sect.
Saturn in the first house-- and here right on the ascendant-- can indicate that a matter will not go well for the querent. Also, while Jupiter's ruler Venus and Mercury look like they might form a nice sextile, Mercury is retrograde, and actually moving away from Venus. Quite possibly, you want a relationship to work out more than he does.
This relationship might have been "just one of those things."
But i thought his contact to me was 3rd from 7th, making it the sun, and mercury was just him in general ?
I thought this about moon being me contacting him first being the faster planet, but there's no way this will happen, it has to come from him, ive already reached out to him once a couple of weeks back which didn't bring nothing.
And your right, now mercury is rx it flows away from jupiter, but i thought a retrograde planet could bring a change of mind ?
Also while where looking at this chart, whats venus my dispositor doing, whats she representing ? I get confused with dispositor planets.
Does the moon have to always represent the querent, as being the co-significator. Can't the moon be seen as the engine of the chart so to speak, showing whats going to be going on as this would make more sense in this chart....as there's no way i can contact him again, from getting no response last time. And if not then im not sure what would this trine be showing.
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Ive just noticed something else in this chart too, the sun (his 3rd), uranus and saturn (my 3rd) /asc form a grand trine.
Ive not really looked into grand trines before in horary charts, but i've just noticed this one.
Sorry im totally derailing the thread now from the original topic.
Ive not really looked into grand trines before in horary charts, but i've just noticed this one.
Sorry im totally derailing the thread now from the original topic.
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Oddity
Well-known member
This seems to be the same question you asked a couple of days ago and posted this chart for: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69535&d=1502380950
You only get to ask about something once, unless the situation has changed drastically. More charts will just make things more unclear.
You only get to ask about something once, unless the situation has changed drastically. More charts will just make things more unclear.
I didn't purposely ask in a different way to try and get a better answer, the other chart looked promising too, there was a sextile between his contact and mine forming...but as i asked for that week in particular and nothing had happened, so then i did another one to see if anything had changed.
Now i'm thinking that i shouldn't be using whole signs, as with regio i would have gotten mercury as his contact significator. Its just ive read that whole signs is more accurate.
I only reached out to him that time to tell him i was sorry for pushing him away, and to tell him i realized i made a wrong choice, as i basically got paranoid that he was already in a r'ship from listening to stupid people who want to get themselves involved, so then i told him that was it and told him to block me...and then he still didn't block me so then two hours later i STUPIDLY reminded him too. So he's not going to come around so easily....if he ever does, but these charts are giving me hope, i just hope im not reading them wrong.
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waybread
Well-known member
It's not a question of trying to jig the chart to give the answer you want. Even in traditional astrology, Regiomontanus is kind of standard for horary.
There is a revival of whole signs houses, but probably your best best is to run both charts, and see which one gives you the accurate results-- even if it's not the result you want.
There is a revival of whole signs houses, but probably your best best is to run both charts, and see which one gives you the accurate results-- even if it's not the result you want.