Sun in Essential Detriment in Tropical Aquarius

[david starling]

Not seeing it, myself. But, with my Moon and Venus in Aquarius, maybe I'm inclined to overlook the expected affliction. Any Aquarian Suns have some insight on the matter?

[greybeard]

The native does not see his astrological affliction as an affliction. I suppose he/she is too close.

I have Sun, Mars,Jupiter and Neptune all in exile, and they all seem normal to me. It's all I've ever known.

[david starling]

Originally Posted by greybeard

The native does not see his astrological affliction as an affliction. I suppose he/she is too close.

I have Sun, Mars,Jupiter and Neptune all in exile, and they all seem normal to me. It's all I've ever known.

The first three are all assertive in their own right, regardless of placement. Maybe viewing from an "outsider's" vantage point provides objectivity.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by david starling

Not seeing it, myself.
But, with my Moon and Venus in Aquarius, maybe
I'm inclined to overlook the expected affliction.
Any Aquarian Suns have some insight on the matter?

Originally Posted by greybeard

The native does not see his astrological affliction as an affliction.

I suppose he/she is too close.

I have Sun, Mars,Jupiter and Neptune all in exile, and
they all seem normal to me.
It's all I've ever known.

Originally Posted by david starling

The first three are all assertive in their own right, regardless of placement.
Maybe viewing from an "outsider's" vantage point provides objectivity.

generously FREE from Charlie Obert
at http://theastrologypodcast.com/2018/...YNlDgSz2m19brA
In episode 156 of THE ASTROLOGY PODCAST astrologer Charles Obert
explains the concept of essential dignities and debilities
and how they are used
to determine the condition of a planet in an astrological chart.

[greybeard]

The astrologer sees them as in debility and understands the use and significance of the condition. The native knows only what he has been given, and has nothing to compare it with.

[passiflora]

Originally Posted by greybeard

The astrologer sees them as in debility and understands the use and significance of the condition. The native knows only what he has been given, and has nothing to compare it with.

So who connects the two perspectives, if the mapmaker has never been to the country?

[waybread]

I have sun in Aquarius. I don't view it as a big debility. Aquarians can come across as somewhat aloof or not fully present to the other person, but on planet Aquarius we are the normal ones.

[david starling]

Originally Posted by greybeard

The astrologer sees them as in debility and understands the use and significance of the condition. The native knows only what he has been given, and has nothing to compare it with.

Sounds like you're saying an astrologer can't grok his or her own Chart, because of being too immersed in it.

[greybeard]

Originally Posted by passiflora

So who connects the two perspectives, if the mapmaker has never been to the country?

What is, is. That's what is communicated to the native. I need not tell the client his Sun is "debilitated in Aquarius". That is meaningless to him. I need to tell him how wonderful he is.

[david starling]

I would say Sun in Aqua is highly functional, and good at overcoming adversity. It's a good example for exploring the concept of "debilities", which may not be as bad as it sounds.

[david starling]

The modern-day definition of "debility" is "health-related physical weakness".

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by david starling

...the concept of "debilities",
....may not be as bad as it sounds.

re: SUN IN ESSENTIAL DETRIMENT IN TROPICAL AQUARIUS

DETRIMENT aka something that can cause damage, injury or harm.
An example of a detriment to your health is not eating healthy foods
Detriment is the hurt or harm as a result of damage, loss, or a bad decision.
The meaning of detriment has not changed much from its LATIN ROOTS
LATIN = detrimentum, which is "a rubbing off, loss, damage, defeat."
A DETRIMENT IS A LOSS THAT WEARS YOU DOWN
Smoking for example is a detriment to good health.

Originally Posted by david starling

The modern-day definition of "debility"
is "health-related physical weakness".

DEBILITY = a weakened or enfeebled state; weakness
also a particular mental or physical handicap; disability.
LATIN ORIGIN = dēbilitās, equivalent to dēbil(is) WEAK

[david starling]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

re: SUN IN ESSENTIAL DETRIMENT IN TROPICAL AQUARIUS

DETRIMENT aka something that can cause damage, injury or harm.
An example of a detriment to your health is not eating healthy foods
Detriment is the hurt or harm as a result of damage, loss, or a bad decision.
The meaning of detriment has not changed much from its LATIN ROOTS
LATIN = detrimentum, which is "a rubbing off, loss, damage, defeat."
A DETRIMENT IS A LOSS THAT WEARS YOU DOWN
Smoking for example is a detriment to good health.


DEBILITY = a weakened or enfeebled state; weakness
also a particular mental or physical handicap; disability.
LATIN ORIGIN = dēbilitās, equivalent to dēbil(is) WEAK

Problem is, I don't see Sun in Aquarius as a weak placement, in regards to Chart-influence. It's more "Foreign-ruler" than greybeard's description of an "exiled" ruler. So, while the Sun is comfortable in Leo, but uncomfortable in Aquarius, it's still has power and authority. [IMO]

[david starling]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

That's not a problem

you are entitled to your opinion
just as all astrologers are entitled to their opinion

Sure it's a problem, if a supposedly "weak" placement has strong Chart-influence.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by david starling

Sure it's a problem, if a supposedly "weak" placement has strong Chart-influence.

Exactly

guage that by viewing chart in question
and so

a chart to view would be useful

otherwise it's all generalisation
which is fun
yet notoriously unreliable

[GabeTheNaabe]

I have an interesting situation - I'm an Aquarius sun, Mercury, Uranus, and Neptune with Aquarius ruling the 8th house. Pretty safe to say that my life has been... Different.

I notice the detriment sometimes, but more often I'm aware that 8th house aspects are more prevalent in my life. For example, sometimes I'll see a Leo who is obviously very Leo and I'll be reminded that my sense of self isn't fully developed yet. But, as soon as I leave their presence, I'm reminded that I have Mercurian, Uranian, and Neptuniun things to do like research the Nag Hammadi library, enlighten into the sign of Pisces, simply or be an eccentric Uranian Aquarius.

It's interesting because I feel my consciousness moving forward into the next sign (Pisces) but I also feel like I have Aquarian parts of me that will never go away, and so that's a kind of tug-of-war I experience inside of myself, one that I argue is more prevalent than the Sun detriment in Aquarius. At least for me ;p.

[david starling]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

Exactly

guage that by viewing chart in question
and so

a chart to view would be useful

otherwise it's all generalisation
which is fun
yet notoriously unreliable

So, all Debilities are conditional. Would that also apply to all Dignities?

[greybeard]

They are called "Essential" dignities. Things essential are not conditional. The debilities are also essential.

Essential dignities are those related to the signs: domicile, exaltation, triplicity, term and face.

They represent inherent, immutable qualities.

A planet in its domicile has power. Usually it works for the good. But there is never a guarantee.

For example, Mars in Scorpio is in domicile and empowered. But we shouldn't forget that the intrinsic nature of Mars has left him branded as "the Lesser Malefic". He will act according to his nature, and Mars stirs things up.

The other type of dignity, based on things other than sign, is called "accidental" dignity. They represent things adventitious that deeply affect our development. Angularity is a common form of accidental dignity.

[david starling]

Originally Posted by greybeard

They are called "Essential" dignities. Things essential are not conditional. The debilities are also essential.

Essential dignities are those related to the signs: domicile, exaltation, triplicity, term and face.

They represent inherent, immutable qualities.

A planet in its domicile has power. Usually it works for the good. But there is never a guarantee.

For example, Mars in Scorpio is in domicile and empowered. But we shouldn't forget that the intrinsic nature of Mars has left him branded as "the Lesser Malefic". He will act according to his nature, and Mars stirs things up.

The other type of dignity, based on things other than sign, is called "accidental" dignity. They represent things adventitious that deeply affect our development. Angularity is a common form of accidental dignity.

So, you're saying Sun in Aquarius is inherently weak in some way or other, as a generalization? I haven't noticed that in practice. What evidence supports the theory in your experience (not necessarily in your own case).

[greybeard]

Let's try to see how dignity works out. Mohammad Ali was a fighter, a warrior.
But his Mars is in Detriment in Taurus. And his Sun is "weak" by house, standing in the 6th. All three planets in the 10th of fame and glory (ditto Sun) are retrograde.

So how did this guy get to be champion of the world, The Greatest?

Here we see Sun, the Tenth House, and warrior Mars all debilitated...producing a king.

So maybe I don't quite understand the effects of the dignities as well as I should.

[david starling]

Originally Posted by greybeard

Let's try to see how dignity works out. Mohammad Ali was a fighter, a warrior.
But his Mars is in Detriment in Taurus. And his Sun is "weak" by house, standing in the 6th. All three planets in the 10th of fame and glory (ditto Sun) are retrograde.

So how did this guy get to be champion of the world, The Greatest?

Here we see Sun, the Tenth House, and warrior Mars all debilitated...producing a king.

So maybe I don't quite understand the effects of the dignities as well as I should.

Understanding the concept of Dignities and Debilities is my latest project. I find it much easier to correlate the Dignities. "Strength" and "weakness" appear to be inadequate descriptions.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by david starling

Understanding the concept of Dignities and Debilities is my latest project.

Then you're in luck - there's a detailed explanation
on

UNDERSTANDING PLANETARY DIGNITY AND DEBILITY
at
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/dignities.html

The 'benefics' are not constant sources of good fortune
the 'malefics' are not always damaging
nor is it fair to assume that all planets express an equal importance at all times

[david starling]

There's a misconception about Aquarius as an Age-sign that seems somewhat widespread: That it will be a dictatorship ruled by elite, shadowy types, and will require conformity to what they dictate. Not sure where this perception is from, but from what I've seen, Sun Aquarians are individualistic, and allow others to be the same. They also don't like forcing others to follow their agenda. "If it works for you, fine", when it comes to astrology, appears to be an Aquarian attitude. Not seeing that as a "debility".

[waybread]

Oh, great, David: just what we need. Astrological conspiracy theories.

[david starling]

Originally Posted by waybread

Oh, great, David: just what we need. Astrological conspiracy theories.

I watch what's posted concerning "what will the Age of Aquarius be like".
At first, in the late 60's, it was supposed to be something amazingly good. And, that it would come on suddenly, and change everything for the better. Now, with those who favor Saturn, "the Greater Malefic" as the only ruler of Aquarius, a more pessimistic attitude prevails.