Mercury Cazimi question

Libres

Member
Just how tight do the orb and minutes have to be to be considered a Mercury cazimi? Is it one or the other or do both have to factor in? These are my placements, do I have it or am I close to it?

Sun 2 Cap 58'18"

Mercury 1 Cap 13'41"r

Sun Conjunction Mercury 1°45'

How close does it have to be? Does a cusp exist for cazimi placements?
 

petosiris

Banned
Just how tight do the orb and minutes have to be to be considered a Mercury cazimi? Is it one or the other or do both have to factor in? These are my placements, do I have it or am I close to it?

Sun 2 Cap 58'18"

Mercury 1 Cap 13'41"r

Sun Conjunction Mercury 1°45'

How close does it have to be? Does a cusp exist for cazimi placements?

Most people consider cazimi as solar conjunction within 16 minutes by longitude, though some ancient authorities used a wider 1 degree range. 1.75 is too large for either of those definitions - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131259

I have Mercury within 8 minutes, and I am a genius, so yeah it does empower. :smile:
 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
That makes sense, but, would a 1 degree orb still be considered to be badly combusting Mercury?

Hi Libres,

That's a good question. Since Mercury is never more than 28 deg from Sun and since Mercury has to be elongated to 13 degrees to escape Sun, it would seem Mercury is under rays or combust about half the time.

For that reason ibn Ezra and others do not consider Mercury to be harmed by combustion.

However, Moon and Venus are really harmed by combustion.
 

Libres

Member
Hi Libres,

That's a good question. Since Mercury is never more than 28 deg from Sun and since Mercury has to be elongated to 13 degrees to escape Sun, it would seem Mercury is under rays or combust about half the time.

For that reason ibn Ezra and others do not consider Mercury to be harmed by combustion.

However, Moon and Venus are really harmed by combustion.

That's interesting, thanks for your perspective.
 

petosiris

Banned
Hi Libres,

That's a good question. Since Mercury is never more than 28 deg from Sun and since Mercury has to be elongated to 13 degrees to escape Sun, it would seem Mercury is under rays or combust about half the time.

For that reason ibn Ezra and others do not consider Mercury to be harmed by combustion.

However, Moon and Venus are really harmed by combustion.

Isn't visibility/arcus visionis entirely based on planetary magnitude and oblique ascension (for morning rising/setting) and oblique descension (for evening rising/setting)?

Ptolemy's tables of arcus visionis for his latitude and time.

gxSyQBU.png


nrqUQ6d.png


https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125913

There is twice a difference between risings at the spring equinox and the autumnal equinox with the planets which do not change magnitude as much.
 

petosiris

Banned
That makes sense, but, would a 1 degree orb still be considered to be badly combusting Mercury?

Morin criticized both the concept of combustion and cazimi, and one of the arguments he used is the contradiction between the two - the planet gets weaker near the Sun, but stronger within some arbitrary heart range?
 

petosiris

Banned
Hi Libres,

That's a good question. Since Mercury is never more than 28 deg from Sun and since Mercury has to be elongated to 13 degrees to escape Sun, it would seem Mercury is under rays or combust about half the time.

For that reason ibn Ezra and others do not consider Mercury to be harmed by combustion.

However, Moon and Venus are really harmed by combustion.

What is the logic behind Mercury being less harmed by combustion other than it spending more time as such? As far as I recall no Hellenistic astrologer mentioned that combustion does not apply to Mercury, but Manetho and Firmicus say it does not harm Mars:

". . . To sum up, however, it should be stated, that nearness to the Sun is harmful to all planets. Certain astrologers, however, claim that Mars is favourable when setting, when he is overwhelmed by the rays of the Sun, for in being subservient to the Sun he loses his natural malefic qualities." Firmicus Maternus, Mathesos , Liber Secundus VIII, Matutine and Vespertine Positions, 2.

Mars is drying and burning (excessive heat). From evening station to setting (and presumably under the rays), it is more cooling, which should make it just heating (which is a beneficent quality) according to Tetrabiblos 1.8... Setting is also sometimes used to refer for every evening position in some authors, if I remember correctly. I wonder if the Arabic preference of occidental Mars is based on this. - http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5787&start=15
 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
That's interesting, thanks for your perspective.

Hi Libres,

It's not my perspective. It's what ancient astrologers say.

Ptolemy's tables of arcus visionis for his latitude and time.

Hi Petosiris,

That's all very fascinating, but I don't do anything Ptolemy.

What is the logic behind Mercury being less harmed by combustion other than it spending more time as such? As far as I recall no Hellenistic astrologer mentioned that combustion does not apply to Mercury, but Manetho and Firmicus say it does not harm Mars:

Then perhaps you should expand your study to include non-Hellenistic astrologers.

Yes, there are many who say Mars is not harmed, but Mars is not the issue, it's Mercury.

One reason Mercury is not harmed is because Mercury is Sun's messenger.

It was only later in time that Mercury came to be viewed as the messenger to all the gods and not just Sun.

That was likely the Greek who couldn't comprehend Mesopotamian cosmogony.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Hi Libres,
It's not my perspective. It's what ancient astrologers say.
Hi Petosiris,
That's all very fascinating, but I don't do anything Ptolemy.
Then perhaps you should expand your study to include non-Hellenistic astrologers.
Yes, there are many who say Mars is not harmed, but Mars is not the issue, it's Mercury.
One reason Mercury is not harmed is because Mercury is Sun's messenger.
It was only later in time that Mercury came to be viewed as the messenger to all the gods and not just Sun.
That was likely the Greek who couldn't comprehend Mesopotamian cosmogony.
You do realize

that only Ptolemy's observance of the actual solar phases is faithful to Babylonian astrology?
Combust Planets in Rulership :smile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV5c1U0780Q
 

Bunraku

Well-known member

He talks about a Gemini and Virgo Mercury with the Sun
Well hold on tight for some JupiterASCisms

Chariots

Stars are said to be in their own chariots whenever they are posited in their own domicile or triplicity or exaltations and are also in their own terms. And a star will also be more powerful, thus even if it has come under the Sunbeams, for then it is even more powerful. And if it also has an oriental position, or if it chances to be angular and it aspects the Moon, it will make nativities possessing power and ruling

-JupiterASC (Astrologyweekly, 2017)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
He talks about a Gemini and Virgo Mercury with the Sun
Well hold on tight for some JupiterASCisms

Chariots​

Stars are said to be in their own chariots

whenever they are posited in their own domicile

or triplicity
or exaltations
and are also in their own terms.

And a star will also be more powerful, thus
even if it has come under the Sunbeams,

for then it is even more powerful.

And if it also has an oriental position, or
if it chances to be angular and it aspects the Moon,
it will make nativities possessing power and ruling

-JupiterASC (Astrologyweekly, 2017)
chariot-bhagavad-gita-2.jpg



Oh my, plenty of opportunities for planets to be in chariots. :love:
keep in mind

different opinions
have a simple explanation
i.e.
as in this case

the long time period (many centuries) covered by Traditional aka Ancient astrology :smile:
that is
from early Hellenistic astrology
to William Lilly’s time.

clearly
Hellenistic astrology differs from Arabic/medieval astrology methodology
 

Bunraku

Well-known member
It seems like many of the astrological techniques that were preserved and transmitted came from the Greeks anyways
 

Bunraku

Well-known member
The 15 degrees before the Sun are said to be pious because then they are release from the Sun beams; the 15 degrees after the Sun impious because the stars found there are less efficacious having fallen under the sunbeams
JupiterASC, 2015

The stars are bad when they are opposing their own domiciles
JupiterASC, 2011
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
It seems like

many of the astrological techniques
that were preserved and transmitted
came from the Greeks anyways
keep in mind that
NON SEMPER EA SUNT QUAE VIDENTUR :smile:

Robert Powell History of the Zodiac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dsbTXRG8iE&feature=youtu.be


The 15 degrees before the Sun are said to be pious
because then they are release from the Sun beams;

the 15 degrees after the Sun impious
because the stars found there are less efficacious having fallen under the sunbeams
JupiterASC, 2015

The stars are bad when they are opposing their own domiciles
JupiterASC, 2011
 
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