Analyzing Charisma

dioskouris

dioskouris

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Charisma is a difficult thing to quantify and define, but everyone knows charisma when they see it and can identify it. There is also the fact that there are many different types of charisma (the Sage, the Showman, the Healer, the Cult Leader, etc.). Also, one can be charismatic in one area of life, or even one location, but in another their charisma does not bring them success.

So far the only thing I know is that a strong Leo or Scorpio (especially rising) gives charisma, especially when conjunct Pluto. But are there other astrological 'ingredients' that determines personal magnetism, what sort of magnetism/charisma the native will have/have to deal with in their lives, and whether it universal or specific to location/area of life?

What would be some examples?
 
dioskouris

dioskouris

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IWDWSWLM said:
They say Mars-Conjunct-Neptune (aka The Bill Clinton Aspect) provides a lot of charisma!
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Interesting. I also noticed he has a libra stellium in the first house, ascendant in Libra, and stellium in Leo. I suppose that makes him hugely charismatic in the public sphere, rather than being a charismatic sage at the top of a mountain.

I'm not sure I see the Mars-Conjunct-Neptune though. Where did you read that? Are there other examples? How does it impact the native?
 
Vista

Vista

Well-known member
Any aspect from Mars to Neptune usually points to charisma from what I have seen with people who have this aspect. I think the ASC ruler or Sun or Sun ruler in aspect to Pluto can also point to charisma. I agree with Scorpio ASC to an extent but usually from my point of view they have more of a magnetic and intense quality verses charisma.
 
dioskouris

dioskouris

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Vista said:
Any aspect from Mars to Neptune usually points to charisma from what I have seen with people who have this aspect. I think the ASC ruler or Sun or Sun ruler in aspect to Pluto can also point to charisma. I agree with Scorpio ASC to an extent but usually from my point of view they have more of a magnetic and intense quality verses charisma.
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What about ASC aspect to Pluto?
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
you said, "Charisma is a difficult thing to quantify and define,"

It sure is. However, if I see a chart that makes me think "charisma" I sort of know it.

The thing is, that planetary positions and aspects (more than signs, I think) that might indicate charisma might also indicate the exact opposite...or at least to some people.

I think charisma goes both ways. There are people who "love" certain artists, musicians, actors, political personalities, etc....and think they have great charisma; and other people 'can't stand' that same individual. So it's like listening to music....or looking at art....
the observer must be on the same 'wavelength'...i.e. be vulnerable to the energy of the charismatic person.

I will agree with this, though....Neptune pretty much has to be involved to acquire "followers". And a powerful moon (which rules the public) wouldn't hurt either.

I also think that there would be (tho I have never studied charts of charismatic people) a strong eastern (left side of chart) influence.

LIN
 
dioskouris

dioskouris

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Lin said:
The thing is, that planetary positions and aspects (more than signs, I think) that might indicate charisma might also indicate the exact opposite...or at least to some people.

I think charisma goes both ways. There are people who "love" certain artists, musicians, actors, political personalities, etc....and think they have great charisma; and other people 'can't stand' that same individual.
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Perhaps that explains why Pluto/Scorpio influence seems essential, it tends to create love/hate feelings in others.

I read that Venus to Pluto contacts might cause some personal magnetism, though it may be on a sexual level.
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
"I read that Venus to Pluto contacts might cause some personal magnetism, though it may be on a sexual level."

No doubt. And that would go for any charismatic person....they know they have this sexual projection and often use it to gain followers....even if they have no intention of being intimate with those followers.

I think ANY charismatic chemistry is partially sexual. But then again I've got Scorpio rising, and that might influence my opinion on this particular point. But...LOL...as far as I know I haven't got any charisma...or at least not in the past couple of decades. I always shied away from "followers" ....as I believe that you may POSSESS followers but in turn THEY can possess YOU.

But again, some people are repelled by the same things that others see as irresistible.
LIN
 
dioskouris

dioskouris

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Lin said:
"I read that Venus to Pluto contacts might cause some personal magnetism, though it may be on a sexual level."

No doubt. And that would go for any charismatic person....they know they have this sexual projection and often use it to gain followers....even if they have no intention of being intimate with those followers.

I think ANY charismatic chemistry is partially sexual. But then again I've got Scorpio rising, and that might influence my opinion on this particular point. But...LOL...as far as I know I haven't got any charisma...or at least not in the past couple of decades. I always shied away from "followers" ....as I believe that you may POSSESS followers but in turn THEY can possess YOU.

But again, some people are repelled by the same things that others see as irresistible.
LIN
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Hmm. I have Scorpio rising too, Pluto conjunct my ASC, and Mars opposite Neptune. Also, Mars (the ASC ruler) trine Pluto. I suppose that should mean I am charismatic? Ha. I don't really "feel" charismatic, but then again people have said that to me, and I do get "followers" sometimes but I can't stand them. My experience is that I get a lot "rise" out of people, whether good or bad. Oh also I have Venus opposite Pluto.
 
E

*emma*

Banned
i thought charisma was more a gentle watery romantic devotional magical fairytale neptunian thing, asexual,unselfish and impersonal,and with venus or moon and mc related, not plutonian which can be more hypnotic and intense, obsession and fascination, one is inspirational thou can be deluded, the other potentially dangerous and destructive..... Not sure I can think of a strong plutonian who inspired much, they must exist, we only get to hear of the ugly side of this

magnetism is not part of charisma IMO, but some can have both, so the sexual attraction can come in, eg princess diana had charisma but not magnetism

Elvis had both maybe, the doors definitely

Magician impossible has both though higher on the charisma scale

neptune - devoted and mesmerised, adoration, falsity but mostly harmless, escapes unharmed from escapism
pluto - fixated, devouring, raw and real, very personal, negative, the abyss, control and abuse


What of poor Uranus strong people? What epithet to put for them? Inspiring?

Sorry if I went off the scale on what was being asked

Im talking famous people and not you and me






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charisma
 
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dioskouris

dioskouris

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Lol, that's fine. Famous people are famous for a reason (charisma). Though of course there are not so famous people who can be charismatic but they're not... "out there".

I understand the Neptune influence now, example Marilyn Monroe has a lot of Neptune aspects, as well as Neptune in the 1st house. Uranus? I don't know, perhaps revolutionary in some way *checks first person that comes to mind* Fidel Castro has Uranus in the 10th house. Not sure if that causes charisma, but we all know his reputation (10th house) "My vocation is the revolution. I am a revolutionary, and revolutionaries do not retire."

The Scorpio/Pluto thing perhaps creates more intrigue, hence magnetism. Like if I were to consider a piece of music to represent Scorpionic energy it would be Ver la Flamme (Toward the Flame). People get drawn by it but that same energy might repel people in the end from fear of being destroyed in it's intense heat, or it may cause the native to experience this internally themselves. I think of Kurt Cobain and all that Scorpionic energy.

Bob Marley seems to have a strong Uranus as well. He popularised "rebel music". It's in mutual reception to Mercury, trining each other. Also Jupiter, chart ruler, conjuncts Neptune.

So it seems the pattern so far is: Uranus, the rebel, the "friend of the people"; Neptune, the "pied piper"; Pluto, the... magnet?

I do make a concession, with my Scorpionic energy I do tend to draw attention I'd rather not have, especially from the opposite sex, and from gays. It's an obsession I've never been comfortable with (though I think I deal with it well). I'm not sure if that means "charisma" though. I read charisma is more a masculine energy while, magnetism is feminine.
 
E

*emma*

Banned
dioskouris said:
Lol, that's fine. Famous people are famous for a reason (charisma). Though of course there are not so famous people who can be charismatic but they're not... "out there".

I understand the Neptune influence now, example Marilyn Monroe has a lot of Neptune aspects, as well as Neptune in the 1st house. Uranus? I don't know, perhaps revolutionary in some way *checks first person that comes to mind* Fidel Castro has Uranus in the 10th house. Not sure if that causes charisma, but we all know his reputation (10th house) "My vocation is the revolution. I am a revolutionary, and revolutionaries do not retire."

The Scorpio/Pluto thing perhaps creates more intrigue, hence magnetism. Like if I were to consider a piece of music to represent Scorpionic energy it would be Ver la Flamme (Toward the Flame). People get drawn by it but that same energy might repel people in the end from fear of being destroyed in it's intense heat, or it may cause the native to experience this internally themselves. I think of Kurt Cobain and all that Scorpionic energy.

Bob Marley seems to have a strong Uranus as well. He popularised "rebel music". It's in mutual reception to Mercury, trining each other. Also Jupiter, chart ruler, conjuncts Neptune.

So it seems the pattern so far is: Uranus, the rebel, the "friend of the people"; Neptune, the "pied piper"; Pluto, the... magnet?

I do make a concession, with my Scorpionic energy I do tend to draw attention I'd rather not have, especially from the opposite sex, and from gays. It's an obsession I've never been comfortable with (though I think I deal with it well). I'm not sure if that means "charisma" though. I read charisma is more a masculine energy while, magnetism is feminine.
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that piece of music??? Didnt fill me with anything at all related to plutonian/ scorpio energy, maybe because it was the old fogey playing the piano??? Like a constipated capricorn LOL


Thank you for the uranian examples, spot on! Bob marley, castro, guevara, dylan and eminem maybe, and others sending out a general proletariat normal US people message to the powers that be

just reminding the old saturn establishment to keep their eyes peeled and on their toes LOL because in reality they do not rule, they are servants and if they fk up they will bebrought to book

Going back to scorpio/pluto yes they can have both charisma and magnestism, like anyone else, though theyhave a few tricks up their sleeve....venus and mars can be incredibly magnetic and charismatic

Its all six and half and dozen in astrology sometimes

re scorpio, i think its a much underrated sign and maligned too much, after all its a water sign, one of compassion, understanding, empathy and vision, its so positive side is never sung about much, dont know why id rather have a good scorpio on my side or as a friend rather than a phoney piscean

As for unsolicited gay flirts, just walk away when you see them coming LOL
 
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dioskouris

dioskouris

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*emma* said:
that piece of music??? Didnt fill me with anything at all related to plutonian/ scorpio energy, maybe because it was the old fogey playing the piano??? Like a constipated capricorn LOL


Thank you for the uranian examples, spot on! Bob marley, castro, guevara, dylan and eminem maybe, and others sending out a general proletariat normal US people message to the powers that be

just reminding the old saturn establishment to keep their eyes peeled and on their toes LOL because in reality they do not rule, they are servants and if they fk up they will bebrought to book

Going back to scorpio/pluto yes they can have both charisma and magnestism, like anyone else, though theyhave a few tricks up their sleeve....venus and mars can be incredibly magnetic and charismatic

Its all six and half and dozen in astrology sometimes

re scorpio, i think its a much underrated sign and maligned too much, after all its a water sign, one of compassion, understanding, empathy and vision, its so positive side is never sung about much, dont know why id rather have a good scorpio on my side or as a friend rather than a phoney piscean

As for unsolicited gay flirts, just walk away when you see them coming LOL
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Right, I perhaps I should have chosen a different performer for the piece, but to me he's my favourite. But it was the first thing that came to my mind. Sorry, classical music nerd here :p

LOOOOL. I don't know if it's something in my chart that causes this, but as a male I think I draw them (unsolicited gay flirts). I don't look effeminate at all, though at the same time I don't look like a burly man's man. However, there was a time when I was curious about homosexuality, and in a sense I still am. Thing about me also is that when I'm curious about something it tends to show. But also, I am curious about A LOT of things, I am a Gemini after all. However, I find myself so interested in sexuality (in general, as a topic of exploration in an intellectual sense) that I think it comes off as me being open to it from either gender. And it drives people crazy when they realise I'm not particularly interested in them, just curious about *studying* them.
 
Claire19

Claire19

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Although I dont use Pluto charisma seems to belong to the fixed signs in my experience. It is hard to define and perhaps Neptune is in the mix therefore????. I know that Mars Neptune contacts are supposed to have the IT factor. :love:
 
L

Lin

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Emma, the definitions for "charisma" might be as numerous as those for "love."
But remember: everything has opposites. That is the nature of "nature". Polarities.
LIN
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
Dio, you said, " My experience is that I get a lot "rise" out of people, whether good or bad. Oh also I have Venus opposite Pluto. "
LOL....of course!!
You'd rather have an argument than the lack of "truth."

True charismatics .....whomever they are....find a way to get their way, make others discard their own thoughts and philosophies and values, and get it without argument.
THIS is the most dangerous sort of person.
LIN
 
dioskouris

dioskouris

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Lin said:
Dio, you said, " My experience is that I get a lot "rise" out of people, whether good or bad. Oh also I have Venus opposite Pluto. "
LOL....of course!!
You'd rather have an argument than the lack of "truth."

True charismatics .....whomever they are....find a way to get their way, make others discard their own thoughts and philosophies and values, and get it without argument.
THIS is the most dangerous sort of person.
LIN
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At the risk of appearing to lack comprehension skills (maybe it's because I just woke up), I didn't get what you said. I actually don't like arguing (well, I do it for fun sometimes - Sun in Gemini - but otherwise, no), and I do tend to get my own way, at least that's what people tend to complain to me about after they realised what just happened.

When I say I get a "rise" out of people, I mean they tend to have strong emotions when they are in contact with me. They are usually either good or bad. Otherwise ostensibly rational people suddenly have irrational reactions to me, which always either bothered me or intrigued me. This has forced me to become somewhat manipulative, since this is the only effective way for me to deal with people most of the time.
 
astro11

astro11

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Since charisma has so much to do with eloquent speaking, the quality of Mercury in the chart is important. In Barack Obama's chart, his Mercury is in Leo and makes 5 aspects with the other planets, it is very well integrated in his psyche. It also makes a trine with the MC, showing its importance for his career with public speaking.

In Bill Clinton's chart Mercury is also in Leo and it makes 6 aspects with other planets, very well integrated in his psyche. Mercury is also semisextile the MC showing its importance for his career with public speaking.

Leo loves the spotlight, admiration and is a charismatic sign. Leo commands respect from the audience. Both presidents had a significant Leo influence: Obama had 3 planets and the North Node in Leo. Clinton had 4 planets in Leo.

The moon is important for popularity and understanding/ reacting to the public's changing moods and preferences. Bill Clinton had a chart shape bowl with lead planet moon, in Taurus. Obama had locomotive with lead planet moon in Gemini- sign of Mercury. The moon is very well integrated in both charts: Clinton had the moon making 7 aspects to other planets and a close semisquare to the MC. Obama had the moon making 6 aspects to the other planets and an opposition to the MC.
 
Z

Zarathu

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It shouldn't be too hard to determine some factors in Charisma. But.... to do that we would first need to compile a list of at least 15 people who clearly have charisma.


The Envelopes please....
 
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