Puer aeternus "Eternal Child"

I've been doing some further reading through Carl Jung's work; and i noticed he wrote quite a bit about 'Puer aeternus' which is what he referred to as an archetype, the 'eternal child/peter pan'.

"The puer typically leads a provisional life, due to the fear of being caught in a situation from which it might not be possible to escape. He covets independence and freedom, chafes at boundaries and limits, and tends to find any restriction intolerable."

The shadow/opposite of the puer is the senex, which is Latin for 'old man'; discipline, orderly, rational, responsible. The shadow of the senex is the puer; unbounded instinct, imagination, disorder.

Upon reading through some of this, i couldn't help but notice the extreme similarities between myself and the puer archetype, and also noticing how this may tie in with astrology, senex symbolizing Saturn and the puer Mercury. I mention Mercury in relation to the mythology surrounding it involving Hermes, Son of Zeus acting as a messenger of the gods moving between the divine and human realms.

Looking back at my life thus far, these opposites seem to be the crutch upon which all my actions and intentions have arisen from. I've been in a constant battle between living as the puer and occasionally ventuing into the senex only to reject the responsibility and moving back into unbounded territory. I cannot find a balance.

Any thoughts on this? I love Carl Jung's work, and i find the archetypal examples to symbolize well with astrology. Perhaps it's my Jupiter/Mercury/Moon conjunction.. but i am constantly seeking out and connecting information from ancient to modern and realizing the integral web that binds them all.

Although ive posted it enough times, i wish to leave my chart

I think your need to remain a 'child' comes from the Mercury in Gemini. They are the 'forever young' kinds. I can't seem to exactly remember the aspect that marks this Puer aeteruns but Sue Thompkins in her book actually quotes Jung.
Maybe Mercury Moon could also make you act like that.

With a dominant Mercury in the 1st house, you would like to always remain young. You also need to look into the fact that Cancer is a sign of dependency. It wants to nurture & wants to BE NURTURED!
Not only that you have Sun Opp Saturn that wants you to GROW up & take responsibility.
Sun Opp Uranus is going to give fluctuations with the Self you wish to project.

I kinda envy your grand trine. That's in the emotional zone since it's a water trine which can help you with the route you take.

The philosophical portion you mentioned from Modern to ancient information, is all about the Mercury-Jupiter conj! They are full of knowledge. To top it off it's in Gemini which gives you the versatility to learn any subject at all. These will provide you strong grounds to be an inspiring speaker regardless of whichever profession you choose.

my first thought: lots of gemini. and there it is

Blackempress said:

I think your need to remain a 'child' comes from the Mercury in Gemini. They are the 'forever young' kinds. I can't seem to exactly remember the aspect that marks this Puer aeteruns but Sue Thompkins in her book actually quotes Jung.
Maybe Mercury Moon could also make you act like that.

With a dominant Mercury in the 1st house, you would like to always remain young. You also need to look into the fact that Cancer is a sign of dependency. It wants to nurture & wants to BE NURTURED!
Not only that you have Sun Opp Saturn that wants you to GROW up & take responsibility.
Sun Opp Uranus is going to give fluctuations with the Self you wish to project.

I kinda envy your grand trine. That's in the emotional zone since it's a water trine which can help you with the route you take.

The philosophical portion you mentioned from Modern to ancient information, is all about the Mercury-Jupiter conj! They are full of knowledge. To top it off it's in Gemini which gives you the versatility to learn any subject at all. These will provide you strong grounds to be an inspiring speaker regardless of whichever profession you choose.

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Wow, that was an awesome interpretation Blackempress, thankyou for responding with such detail! Slowly but surely i'm gaining a better understanding of my chart and how i reflect those qualities in my life.

bittermoon said:

my first thought: lots of gemini. and there it is

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Haha yes, i thought so too. It's an aspect of myself that i've tried to reject over time because of pressure from others on me to grow up and be responsible, but i've found im happiest when im just been myself.. the optimistic prankster type, with a touch of sensitivity from my Cancer sun and water trine.

I think that you won't grow up until you're old enough. Right now you are living your Pre-Saturn return years and my advice is to enjoy it.
You WILL "do" your Saturn ultimately, but you will always wonder if you're "doing" it right, because of Neptune conjunct.
Therefore you may OVERDO it... as remote a possibility that seems at the moment.

Gemini is a lucky sign to have as ascendant and first house. At least I feel it is. It gives you "open doors" all over the place, and you can always find an entry.
You can easily learn to fit in anywhere and will almost always be liked.

You will begin to have problems when you attempt to "control" a relationship. You will believe you are "handling" it, but you will really be attempting to feel as though you are in control and you will also feel justified to use some heavy handed tactics.

DON'T.

The more laid back you remain, the more your Gemini and Leo will work for you.

When you try to force things through trying to be in control of it, you will find you will lose your sense of humor and your popularity at the same time.
LIN

do they ever learn to get off the boob?

what a silly question.
if you are really interested psychology you know that no man ever learns to get off the boob.
This isn't about that and I'm pretty sure you know that. Having a bad day?
LIN

no. not having bad day.
lots of boys get off boob and find satisfying relationships with grown up women because they have overall need satisfied.
we're talking about peter pan, not mature, self actualized men, right?
i had a peter pan once ~ self centered, craving attention for little boy antics, always saving the day but never accepting responsibility for causing the problems of it.
So, EXCUSE me?
Some boys never get off the boob. they hide their smiling face in your lap waiting for milk.
A grown up realizes his actions are his word and bond. Doesn't talk about what he's gonna do, talks about what he's done and is doing.

I think....seriously...that even self actualized men, even mature, intellectually diverse men, [overly sexual comment - Moderator]
sorry.
that's both my opinion and my experience in life and the study & practice of astrology.
Of course, there are degrees...lol
LIN

lazarusx said:

Any thoughts on this? I love Carl Jung's work, and i find the archetypal examples to symbolize well with astrology. Perhaps it's my Jupiter/Mercury/Moon conjunction.. but i am constantly seeking out and connecting information from ancient to modern and realizing the integral web that binds them all.

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Just bringing this thread back to the OP's question/point.............

Your question has largely been answered, lazarusx, but I just wanted to add one more thing........

When I read the above paragraph, and in particular, the bit I have emboldened, I thought: "That's Jupiter - I'll bet he has a prominent Jupiter." One with a prominent/strong Jupiter - and yours is in that 1st house stellium, and in the same sign as your ASC, as well as being conjunct your chart ruler - is one who searches for patterns in the life around them, with a view towards gaining understanding of their place and their role in this whole cosmic experience.

As for the eternal child - that's Gemini - and not only is this your chart ruler, but the ruling planet is also in its own sign. The advantage of this is that you will always look young.

getting off the boob meant, getting out of mom's lap (literally & metaphorically) ~ "growing up" in other words. not meant it sexually. i guess that age-old expression got lost somewhere.

MaeMae said:

getting off the boob meant, getting out of mom's lap (literally & metaphorically) ~ "growing up" in other words. not meant it sexually. i guess that age-old expression got lost somewhere.

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I didn't mean it all sexually either. There's plenty of women who can't see past a flashy car and a wallet flush with cash. Daddy will pay for it, they're thinkin'

Zonark said:

I didn't mean it all sexually either. There's plenty of women who can't see past a flashy car and a wallet flush with cash. Daddy will pay for it, they're thinkin'

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sure, if your modern thinking, that's true.
but in my world, women are naturalized, culturized and socialized into roles of dependency which is not the same and which is why most will choose a "bad boy" over a "good man" because they feel a need to be "in performance" to prove their need. Hence, the "damsal in distress" which makes peter feel most vital. the idea (mercury) is sadly better than the reality (saTurn) for most.
the reality guys finish top in the end, though.

additionally, a pubescent, youthful female is USUALLY more desirable to an adult man, no matter how much a gold digger she is, than a pubescent male is to an adult female.
this has always been my perception and hence, understanding.
and for what it's worth ~ the peter pan types i've known over years all have mars/neptune or merc/neptune prominent in charts.

MaeMae said:

sure, if your modern thinking, that's true.
but in my world, women are naturalized, culturized and socialized into roles of dependency which is not the same.
additionally, a pubescent, youthful female is USUALLY more desirable to an adult man, no matter how much a gold digger she is, than a pubescent male is to an adult female.
this has always been my perception and hence, understanding.
and for what it's worth ~ the peter pan types i've known over years all have mars/neptune or merc/neptune prominent in charts.

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Aye patriarchal dominance is still largely prevalent. Takes two to tango though.

Where is it usually prominent? I have a domicile (Virgo) and very well aspected Mercury as well as Neptune conjunct the ascendant. Certainly can be a petulant manchild at times

On a more thread worthy note, the tightest aspect in my chart quite prominently represents an internal struggle between the puer aeternus and the senex.

Saturn is domicile in Capricorn and Moon domicile in Cancer, they oppose with only an orb of 1. If you read about this aspect, it is explained as usually very unfortunate due to the extreme polar opposites representing a sort of Eldest/Child dichotomy, this opposition being particularly difficult to balance.

Zonark said:

On a more thread worthy note, the tightest aspect in my chart quite prominently represents an internal struggle between the puer aeternus and the senex.

Saturn is domicile in Capricorn and Moon domicile in Cancer, they oppose with only an orb of 1. If you read about this aspect, it is explained as usually very unfortunate due to the extreme polar opposites representing a sort of Eldest/Child dichotomy, this opposition being particularly difficult to balance.

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zonark ~
my son has moon cancer opp. saturn cap within 1' degree, too. were you born during the 88-91 cap stellium?

MaeMae said:

zonark ~
my son has moon cancer opp. saturn cap within 1' degree, too. were you born during the 88-91 cap stellium?

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I have my Ascendant nestled in between Saturn and Neptune too. All the planets in the Cap stellium for people born during that time are retrograde I believe. Interesting to see what we'll all be up to 10 years from now.

Zonark said:

Mhm, August 17th 1990. I have my Ascendant nestled in between Saturn and Neptune too. All the planets in the Cap stellium for people born during that time are retrograde I believe. Interesting to see what we'll all be up to 10 years from now.

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cool. i love the cap stellium generation, though in my opinion, they are not too "eternally childlike", inthat, i think they are afraid to realize themselves vs not wanting to grow up. the ones i know are hard on themselves, extremely high expectations of themselves (though, sadly, some cave-in to self~doubt and lack of confidence in achieving) and were wise beyond their years as little ones and now, many are on their way to professions, careers, business. many are also drug and video/computer~addled nihilists who don't bother to try.
laz x is of the gen, so it does appear there are some who might not fit my notions.
different thing ~ young adults who don't want to grow up ~ aren't ready, likely.
it's different in the 40+ male age group that i was addressing earlier.
sorry for taking this off topic....
anyway, zonark ~ if you're inclined, check out cap stellium thread in Chat/Show off forum.

Mmmm I don't think the cap gen can party like mine did (sag jupiter/uranus/neptune). Awesome times, missing it. ***** to have to grow up

I guess we've heard enough about Gemini, which was the first thing I thought! lazarusx, I don't think you can fight your ultra-Gemini nature. Hopefully you are in an environment where people have a sense of humour, delight in interesting conversations, and you are surrounded by information; and you will become one of those old people who are young at heart.

I note, also, your Cancer sun. My ex-husband was a Gemini/Cancer kind of guy, and I think this combo accentuates the Peter Pan persona. Cancer can be the sign of the nurturing parent, but it can also be the child in need of that nurturing parent.

Also, people who have planets opposite their sun oftentimes interpret these planets as "not me." If the sun is "you" then the energies of planets in opposition can get denied, suppressed, or split off. Yet we still have to experience them somehow, so unsurprisingly the opposing planets tend to show up as actual people who seemingly represent the unwanted qualities. With three planets opposite your sun, you may have a lot of psychological projection with regard to senior authority figures (Saturn, possibly beginning with Dad) and people who seem to you to be disruptive (Uranus) and deceptive or perhaps even addictive (Neptune) in some way.

The the Big Ouch is amplified by Chiron conjuncting your sun.

I have some oppositions to my sun, as well. One day I realized that I am all those placements in my chart, whether I like them or not.

Your Capricorn in Saturn is actually very strong in its own sign. Mostly what it asks for is a sense of patience, hard work, resourcefulness, and deferred gratification. It doesn't ask you to be Mr. Businessman or whatever you dislike about authority figures in your life.

Your Saturn return will hit you around the age of 29.5. This is often a time of real maturation for people.