Does my natal chart imply a tragic end?

According to my Mid Heaven in 22° Taurus, when I reach the top of my career, there will be a reversal of fortunes. I'm prone to paranoia and depression, and have Pisces positioned in the 8th house. Does it mean that after I lose everything, I will die from some form of suicide?

Sorry, I'm quite new to this and found the explanations on my chart pretty accurate. Is there a way to prevent these from happening?

Fate vs free will

Libra,

You said:

Libra Aries Leo said:

According to my Mid Heaven in 22° Taurus, when I reach the top of my career, there will be a reversal of fortunes. I'm prone to paranoia and depression, and have Pisces positioned in the 8th house. Does it mean that after I lose everything, I will die from some form of suicide?...Is there a way to prevent these from happening?

Click to expand...

First of all, if you are "prone to paranoia and depression" you need to get psychological help and TALK to someone IRL off this forum.

However, if you are already taking care of those issues and this is strictly an astrological question, then there are different schools of thought about learning about death in astrology. The traditional school will tend to be about "fate" and believe that everything, including death, can be seen in the horoscope because we are to a smaller or greater extent "fated" in our life, and that "fate" can be seen in the horoscope. While the modern school will say that we have "free will" so no absolutes can be seen in the horoscope at all. As to "remedies" the Vedic school of astrology believes that things are "fated" but that we can use a "remedy" to help deflect the worst part of a "fated" effect (e.g., you have to experience the bad but if you do a certain thing(s) then you can get through it much more easily).

Personally, I'm of the Modern school that emphasizes "free will" over "fate" and I don't look for death indicators in the horoscope. My philosophy is: if death is fated and you can't do anything about it, why bother looking for it? Just pretend you have "free will" over things and, if you're wrong, at least you can FEEL like you have an effect on the things around you.

In addition, I have never heard of Pisces on the 8th house cusp being a suicide indicator.

Giving astrological thoughts about a most difficult subject,

Tim

Note: No subject of astrological discussion is automatically forbidden on the forum, although some of them (like death, homosexuality, etc.) require a more "balanced" approach to answering.

Thank you for the insight. I'm relieved to know there are still ways to somehow reduce their effects. The Vedic school sounds interesting, though, I kinda like the modern one's emphasis on free will.

I've been interested in astrology for years but only started thoroughly studying it just recently. I used to only care about the Sun, Moon and Ascendant signs until my curiosity was aroused by how the other signs and planets in the chart make up my life and personality.

It started when reading about the subject of critical degrees that lead me to ask this question and found out about what my 22° Taurus symbolizes. And that's when I sort of connected the dots and made this speculation.

Also, I'm guilty of being fascinated about the darker aspects of astrology and the potential to predict things including misfortune and death, and hopefully arming myself with that knowledge to prevent them or at the very least be ready when they happen. Might sound silly to most people...

Saw the types of death associated with each sign from here:

http://chirotic.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/the-8th-house-a-good-death/

"Pisces (Neptune): Confused; cause of death obscure or uncertain, alcohol, poison, drugs, mistake, suicide."

I just assumed it would be related to suicide based on my personal history.

Oh, and thanks for the concern. I do take some pills for when my anxiety acts up and talk things out with a few close friends when I need to vent out my feelings.

Hi. It could be that your anxiety is partly reflected in the chart by Moon in Aries in the 8th sesquiquadrate Pluto. Your venting your feelings is perhaps something that you need to do in more conscious and ongoing manner for a while, so that they do not manifest unconsciously as a threat. Your Moon is also exactly quintile the 10th house Mars. Your anxiety could have something to do with either the way your mother behaved, the way she felt inside, or a mixture of both. If this is so, try to see that her way of seeing the world isn't the only way - and that whatever she was stressed about isn't something that you need to concern yourself with.

Another reason why you may be prone to worry is that each of your Libra planets is square an outer planet. Libra needs to keep things in harmony, and the outer planets threaten to disrupt this harmony in the name of growthful change. Getting in touch with the Aries energy will help you to lessen your dependence on harmony.

Don't know if this will help. I agree with Wilson that there is nothing in this chart to suggest that you will meet misfortune in career, because I don't see astrology as having any predictive power on that crude level, and because those traditional rules were thrown together in more of a hurry than the ancient history of astrology would suggest.

One in twelve people have Pisces on the 8th cusp, so it can't be a reliable indicator of those kinds of events.

Its good that you have friends to talk to when you need to vent emotional energy - Mars in Gemini!

My anxiety is triggered by many things. I tend to think about everything(including but not limited to what's happening, what's going to happen, what could have happened) and I do believe it does partly concern my mom. She's probably the closest person to me and I worry about her an awful lot. Her Moon is also in Aries.

You're right about my love of harmony. I feel as though the Aries in me has to do with my tendency to be very restless, too. I try to balance both and complement each other but usually one or the other dominates. It's like I'm at war with myself.

Thanks for the assurance and these useful pieces of information. I really appreciate them!

Even though most people don't like to talk about predicting death, I think it's fascinating. The only person I have known personally enough to have his chart information when he died had Pisces ruling his 8th house. His body was healthy, and we still don't know for sure what actually happened. I think Pisces ruling the 8th house puts more of a "fog" over your death, like there's something confusing or uncertain about it. Your Moon is also in your 8th house, which could indicate that it will be at home and/ or with family. The only way that you could die of suicide is if you let yourself get to that point. Maybe you should tell someone close to you that if they ever notice that you might need help, they should try to help you even if you don't want the help.

Hi in the light of your last post I had some further thoughts about your chart. The Mercury in Virgo will tend to think about how neat and synchronised your life is, and it is also in opposition to the Aries Moon, along with Venus in Libra, with Sun also in the opposite sign to the Aries Moon. With Mars in Mercury's other sign, and ruling and quintiling the Moon, there is a sense of a lot of nervous energy (air) and emotional energy (fire, and also the Moon Pluto aspect) and perhaps a need to try to get grounded. The squares from the outer planets to the personal planets in Libra will add to the nervous energy.

Saturn in Capricorn is weakly aspected in this chart, so you may need to consciously try to cultivate its grounding potential.

There is perhaps a sense in this chart that you are challenged to not mind where life takes you. You are so tuned in to potential outcomes that you might need to cultivate a detachment to which ones manifest and which ones don't. At the moment, the Moon is perhaps restricted because it wants to just act, but the nervous energy is too indecisive. Moon in Aries sesquiquadrate Pluto potentially has a lot of courage with which to respond to whatever comes along, but if it is wounded, then there may be a lot of anticipation of might might come along, but without the sense of potency with which to deal with it - this can incline to paranoia and therefore anxiety.

Aries and Libra are the cardinal yang signs - they need to pursue (cardinal) some ideal new potential (yang). Libra is about defining one's values. Uranus and Neptune will exaggerate the 'grass is always greener' part of Libra-consciousness, but you can still make choices and see how things pan out. Libra has to learn from making decisions, and inhibited Aries energy needs chances to be decisive. All sorts of things could happen - but if you make some decisions, at least you'll have more chance of things going your way, and you'll learn more from making a decision and regretting it than you will from either accidental success or accidental failure.

Don't know if this will ring true for you, but seemed worth a try...

@eliwhite

Very intriguing. Thanks for sharing that. Hopefully, his death was gentle and swift. I'd like to learn more about how natal charts influence deaths but it seems like I can't find a very thorough guide about it.

@miquar


Incredible! That was surprisingly spot on. I think of my current life as very messy although I am guilty of being a perfectionist more often than I would like to admit.

That's a lot to ponder about and really great advice at the end. I often find myself at a crossroads because of the fear of failure. I guess I should try living life more instead of always being in my head.

Yes I guess we should all try and do that more - but perhaps this is one of your particular challenges in life. You might find that your life doesn't actually change much - but that you feel more of a participant and less of a spectator. In terms of all the thoughts - you wouldn't be able to act on anywhere near all of them anyway, so only a few of them constitute actual decisions. Maybe you could write down the actual real decisions so that you can see them clearly, and this will perhaps distinguish them from the less relevant thoughts?

As transiting Uranus and Pluto hover between 9 and 13 degrees of their respective signs they'll put the spotlight on the natal Sun Neptune square. This could be a time of coming to a better understanding of what really means something to you, but don't be surprised if this process involves some painful disillusionment about what you thought was meaningful in your life. It may be that your values and aspirations don't actually change, but that you become more realistic about what can be achieved and how much you can reasonably expect of yourself. Sun Neptune is especially prone to guilt about not measuring up when the Sun is in certain signs - and Libra is one such sign. Allow yourself to grieve for the perfection you've been thirsting for. Its a truly beautiful chart, but if you expect life or yourself to always reflect that beauty, you'll experience a great deal of unnecessary disappointment. Beauty is a state of receptivity to all the goodness and truth that is already in the world. Struggling to manifest beauty out of our blood sweat and tears just doesn't make sense.

Just a note: both in Vedic astrology and in older approaches to Western astrology, the subject of potential death (and possible nature of the death) involves many other considerations than just the sign (lord and/or planets) in the 8th house: these further considerations (in the investigation of this particular subject), in Western astrology include:
-the nature of any star in conjunction with the 8th house cusp
-the placement and condition (and progressions/directions) of the 1st triplicity lord of the sign of the 8th house
-the placement and condition (and progressions/directions) of the 3rd triplicity lord of the sign of the 4th house
-the Pars mortis
-the Lot of Danger and Violence
-the Lot of Chronic Disease (also, to a certain extent, the Lot of Debilitated Bodies)
-the Lot of the Killing PLanet (aka the "Anareta")
-the Lot of Murder (and also of sickness)
-the Lot of "the Year to be Feared"
...and, to varying degrees of relevance, such Lots as those of Catastrophe, Suicide,
Self Undoing, Tragedy, etc.

The sign (and house) placements of these Lots, the condition of their dispositors (rulers of the signs they are in), natal aspects to these Lots, PLUS progressions (or directions) to these Lots, AND any significant transits to these Lots, are ALL required to be evaluated, in trying to obtain prognostics regarding this matter (of death, nature of the end of the life)

@miquar

True, filtering what matters most out of my myriad contemplations would definitely do me good. Focusing on them would be a challenge indeed considering how I am always bombarded with new and more interesting thoughts as I go along, which almost always lead me off track.

Thanks for the heads up. I hope it doesn't trigger my emotions to go haywire and I pray I'd be able to accept whatever change might come before destructive feelings sink in.

Again, that was surprisingly insightful and the last part was profound and most thought provoking. You have helped me understand myself better.

@dr.farr

Thank you. That was very detailed and helpful. It seems it would be difficult to accurately predict when and how it will happen unless one were to regularly monitor their chart progressions. I am psyched nonetheless.

You know, it makes a good horary question. We already have the time and date. Where did you ask the question from when you wrote it into your computer?

PM sent. I must say, I'm really nervous and excited!

I pulled the time off of my birth certificate. I just hope the doctor or whoever was in charge of writing it down didn't misread the time.

nope. it does indicate a near death experience in more traditional/hellenistic terms because of moon in 8th in detriment.

this apex of saturn/uranus/neptune is both a mental challenge as well as a spiritual challenge to a certain situation that would happen.

your nice jupiter in leo in the 12th will protect you. jupiter in the 12th makes you receive teachings in dreams as well as subtly protects the isolation stages where something bad occurs.

you would have enough energy to overcome this put together challenge.

the other corner mercury/venus both domicile makes it a lot better since its not malefic but fortifying of the experience, and its only a bit rough with a saturn ruled stellium.

in this chart the vulnerable point is the moon where you can run in to relationship problems 7th, 8th problems as well as ego problems in the 5th or expression. its better for you to not take extreme drugs with this senstitive energy.

in terms of your career you are going to do excellent with the moon being ruled by mars at an apex of this configuation in the 10th. the ruin would actually spiritually lead you towards the full excellence of mars.as well as mc ruler being venus in 2nd house in a grand trine which signifies personal wealth. you would make less in terms of 8th wealth and this can also cause problems, but your chart is definetly able to handle making your own money with a weaker 11th/8th.

Could we verify what exactly you mean by a "tragic end"?

@gen6k

Wow, that was brilliant! I guess Jupiter being in the 12th house isn't so bad after all even though its presence is not very palpable to me.

I hope a major event like that wouldn't occur more than once. I've had something similar happen before which made me lose 8 years of my life that I'm now still recovering from.

@Zarathu

An end where I've not only lost everything in terms of material wealth but also including my honor, dignity and reputation, and ultimately, what I presumed to be suicide.