Human existence: the gender of God

Opal, thanks. I am finding that friends and neighbours in our area are checking up on one another by phone every few days.

I am concerned about my son and daughter-in-law in Colorado. They came down with sore throats and fevers a few days ago. Their doctor prescribed penicillin in the *hope* that this is *just* strep throat. If they don't develop tightness of chest and a cough by tomorrow then it's not covid-19. They've been sequestering for 3 weeks. They also have an active 3-year old, and I don't know what contingency plans they would have for him.

We've been texting, but I don't like to call in case they're able to sleep, &c.

I am not a huge believer in petitionary prayer, although I don't dismiss it. I just think of all of the millions people over the centuries who prayed for relief from a disaster and got hit anyway. Prayer didn't stop the bubonic plague or the devastation of two world wars, for example. (Lots of examples of the innocent suffering with the guilty in the Bible.) I do believe in praying for one's personal strength in difficult times, and, as Jesus put it: "Not my will, but Thine be done."

Please stay well, everyone.

david starling said:

What if OM is the secret name of God, hiding in plain sight?

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Close enough! Cayce says its "Ohmmm" drawn out. We use to use it in Meditations at Study Groups. Perhaps they still do, I would think so.

Waybread:

I am concerned about my son and daughter-in-law in Colorado. They came down with sore throats and fevers a few days ago. Their doctor prescribed penicillin in the *hope* that this is *just* strep throat. If they don't develop tightness of chest and a cough by tomorrow then it's not covid-19. They've been sequestering for 3 weeks. They also have an active 3-year old, and I don't know what contingency plans they would have for him.

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My family is very broken as you know since the loss of our youngest daughter in Aug. 2008, so we don't stay in touch a whole lot with the eldest girl now (in a good marriage with grown children) but the middle child (single at 45, just broke up with her live in human being ) ...is here locally, and since we didn't hear from her (especially with the Corona Virus going on) for weeks now; my husband called her. Apparently shes been super busy with this new job she took supervising both prisons & ? for those being now furloughed or let out of prison early. It DOES worry me too, that she's going to give a home a place to stay to a jailbird (as we use to say in the old days), a friend of a friend, she had in childhood. He's the age of our children, or if she had children, he'd be her child's age. Anyway, he's on the agenda last time we talked in person. She does have her Venus in Aquarius, and is extreme imo, in her lack of boundaries in some regard (ie. Venus) but each is their own soul and choices is how I think of it and get through life. My 5th house of children btw, predicted that I'd lose my children, at the 21st°Scorpio for Jupiter in this house, otherwise, Jupiter plays a greater role in my soul's evolution too. Loss is paramount in my 6th house of loss & sacrifice life (across from the 12th)





I didn't speak, only my husband did on the phone this time, so 2nd hand info but it sounds like the various States including ours (Arizona) is letting prisoners out early because of the virus and her job is to relocate their health insurance. (Most were on the ACA Obamacare and the local govt's own system here for those with needs because of income)



I heard yesterday that Trump will NOT allow those on Obamacare aka ACA to be re-enlisted this year, so I imagine her job now is overwhelming, just as she intimated working day & night at home now.


I think the Virus overwhelms these systems and especially the lack of a decent Universal Health care in our country. This is one example, those in prisons. I don't know what else her authority in this new job entails however, might be more as she traveled quite a bit, I'm just GLAD to hear, she's working from home now. As you know when you have children, even if they don't keep in touch parents will worry about them until the day they die. They'll always love them and would do anything for them.

leomoon said:

Close enough! Cayce says its "Ohmmm" drawn out. We use to use it in Meditations at Study Groups. Perhaps they still do, I would think so.

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What does it mean? What happens when you are repeating it?

petosiris said:

What does it mean? What happens when you are repeating it?

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Presumably, one is in direct contact with God.

As explained earlier, everything, even this computer screen, mouse & us, are conglomeration of atoms, molecules which vibrate....the Ultimate vibration is OHMMMMM ....which supposedly, our evolutionary state eventually will get to.
Here is how the Vedic might explain it:
http://themodernvedic.com/logical-atheist/om-aum/

The potency of Ohmm comes when you speak it in the mind silently and feel it vibrating in the entire body .
AAAA……UUUUUUUUU…MMMMMMMMMMMMMM
“Aum” is the correct pronounciation
‎’om includes all sounds’ because, om’s primary components are a, u, m. ‘a’ and is pronounced with the open mouth . ‘m’ is pronounced with your lips closed. ‘u’ is the connector. om hence engulfs all sounds that are generated. a-u-m is used in Pranayama

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I just simply googled the word and came up with this first - Ignore the site name

I still do not understand.

For the open minded, this might help:
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...the-sayings-of-jesus-in-the-gospel-of-thomas/




These are the hidden words that the living Jesus spoke. And Didymos Judas Thomas wrote them down.
(1) And he said: “Whoever finds the meaning of these words will not taste death.”
(2) Jesus says:
(1) “The one who seeks should not cease seeking until he finds.
(2) And when he finds, he will be dismayed.
(3) And when he is dismayed, he will be astonished.
(4) And he will be king over the All.”



https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...ns/the-gospel-of-thomas-114-sayings-of-jesus/


****not to be taken literally, as "finding death" might convey to a literalist

literalism

NOUN

1. the interpretation of words in their usual or most basic sense.
   "biblical literalism"
   synonyms:
   dogmatism · purism · formalism · overscrupulousness · scrupulousness ·
   
   
   
   

For those interested I share this: (anyone of course is welcomed to ignore it)



I prefer this one, much cleaner without interruption ads:


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/maps/primary/gthomas.html


and this is my go-to link because it gives other scholars various interps (just very slight nuanced differences, not changing the gist at all of the sayings, but interesting to me anyway) ...


http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html




note: I can't believe sometimes, I actually could have gone the small Nile River town of Nag Hammadi had I wanted to once. We were on the Nile on a cruise ship then, and I looked at the map hanging in the stairwell walking down, and saw just how close we were. But I know better then to wander completely uninvited too into a rural place like this is. E
Extremists are in every country! Sadly, in very rural parts of Egypt too.
And the irony? The Nag Hammadi ancient scrolls found are housed in Coptic Cairo, in the Coptic Museum. Easy to go to, once in Cairo and everyone is invited to see. No photos however (no camera allowed) Here, it reminds me of KKK in this country sad to say.



Nag Hammadi is a city in Upper Egypt. It is located on the west bank of the Nile in the Qena Governorate, about 80 kilometres north-west of Luxor. It had a population of close to 43,000 as of 2007.






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_Hammadi

The "Nag Hammadi library", an important collection of 2nd-century Gnostic texts, was found at Jabal al-Ṭārif near Nag Hammadi in 1945.[1] The city was the site of the Nag Hammadi massacre in January 2010, wherein eight Coptic Christians were shot dead by three men

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Egypt has the oldest and largest Christian community in the Middle East
About 10% of Egypt's 80 million people are Christians
Egyptian Christians are known as Copts, a word derived from the Greek word Aigyptos, meaning Egypt
The Christian community is divided into: Coptic Orthodox, Coptic Catholics, Coptic Evangelicans (Protestants) and other minorities
They have their own pope, Pope Shenouda III (died in 2012) and
a new Pope was elected The Popes are treated in Egypt like celebrity or like the one in Rome, the dignitaries and afforded great care and coverage, usually loved by their people much like Italians and Roman Catholics love Pope Francis. I believe the two Popes visited in Egypt once not too long ago. Can't recall if it was Benedict or Francis?





The Copts have a very interesting "recent" history too! When that awful killing took place in 2010 Jan., as did others in various places similarly held by these types of extremists; The Coptics felt that the President (Mubarak) did not protect them enough. They were very happy and still are - when Mubarak was overturned and eventually General Sisi took over - (they like him because they say he protects them) and so far seems to. I"m not crazy about Sisi, however, as he sent the legitimately recognized and voted for President, (a Pisces stellium) man,(I did their charts at the time, and they were amazingly close) - and put him in prison where he eventually died ....I don't think Sisi has been good enough for the Egyptian people either, en masse other then the small minority of Coptics who are pleased. This Revolution (change) took place in January 2011 and I went there in the Spring to see it myself and congratulate the young people who were VERY happy then. They aren't today....Happiness can be a very fleeting thing.

You still haven't given an explanation. ''And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.'' - Matthew 6:7

Just for others who may be interested in the history: * other cultures who also believe in G O D .





Here is the new (since 2012) Elected, Coptic Pope, the counterpart of Rome's Pope Francis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Tawadros_II_of_Alexandria


President Morsi (Egyptian democratically elected President in 2011) before he was overturned & imprisoned:
Tawadros II said, from the monastery at Wadi Natrun, "[We] will start by organizing the house from within. It is a responsibility. Most important is ... that the church, as an institution, serves the community". Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi congratulated Tawadros and called for Egyptian "unity" and "brotherly love" between Copts and Muslims.
Bishop Raphael, who came first in the election stage of papal selection, was appointed general secretary of the Holy Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Church


There are MANY Christian ancient monastaries in Egypt and the Sinai, including one of the oldest, (well they are ALL very old), but the famous St. Catherine's accessible by camel. (I don't like camels, so didn't go there) ...and would have if they were going via another carriage ...
Supposedly, its where Moses went for the 10 Commandments on that small mountain.





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Catherine%27s_Monastery

The oldest record of monastic life at Sinai comes from the travel journal written in Latin by a woman named Egeria about 381–384. She visited many places around the Holy Land and Mount Sinai, where, according to the Old Testament, Moses received the Ten Commandments from God.[7]
The monastery was built by order of Emperor Justinian I (reigned 527–565), enclosing the Chapel of the Burning Bush (also known as "Saint Helen's Chapel") ordered to be built by Empress Consort Helena, mother of Constantine the Great, at the site where Moses is supposed to have seen the burning bush.[8] The living bush on the grounds is purportedly the one seen by Moses

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The monastery is Eastern Orthodox/Chalcedonian rather than Non-Chalcedonian (miaphysite), although most Egyptians rejected Chalcedon along the Tome in the 5th century.

david starling said:

Presumably, one is in direct contact with God.

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Why would you presume such a thing?

I think St. Augustine (3-4th century CE) is credited with steering the Catholic church towards literal interpretations of the Bible; unlike the Gnostic Christians who emphasized the scriptures' metaphorical meanings and personal religious experience.

Here is an interesting article, suggesting that true insistence on literal meanings of the Bible probably post-dated the invention of the printing press. https://www.history.com/news/discovery-shows-early-christians-didnt-always-take-the-bible-literally

There is reference to Ethiopian Christians in the NT. Today their church numbers about 40 million people, more than some mainstream Protestant denominations, like the Unitarians (800,000.) The Armenian church claims its origin from the apostles and claims 9 million members.

Leomoon is quite right about very early Christian denominations that were not offshoots of Catholicism.

When are you going to answer my questions, Petosiris? You cannot insist on others answering your questions if you are not responsive yourself.

waybread said:

I think St. Augustine (3-4th century CE) is credited with steering the Catholic church towards literal interpretations of the Bible; unlike the Gnostic Christians who emphasized the scriptures' metaphorical meanings and personal religious experience.

Here is an interesting article, suggesting that true insistence on literal meanings of the Bible probably post-dated the invention of the printing press. https://www.history.com/news/discovery-shows-early-christians-didnt-always-take-the-bible-literally

There is reference to Ethiopian Christians in the NT. Today their church numbers about 40 million people, more than some mainstream Protestant denominations, like the Unitarians (800,000.) The Armenian church claims its origin from the apostles and claims 9 million members.

Leomoon is quite right about very early Christian denominations that were not offshoots of Catholicism.

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To write off entire or even parts of Christendom in Antiquity as ''Catholicism'' rather than catholicism is monstrously ignorant of history. I don't think you've read any of the church fathers to claim such a thing about literalism starting with Augustine. He used many more allegories than some of his contemporaries, for example in rejecting the millenium, whereas we can read that Apollinarius of Laodicea ''has written about the resurrection, from a mythical, or rather Jewish, point of view; urging that we shall return again to the worship of the Law, be circumcised, keep the Sabbath, abstain from meats, offer sacrifices to God, worship in the Temple at Jerusalem, and be altogether turned from Christians into Jews. What could be more ridiculous? Or, rather, what could be more contrary to the doctrines of the Gospel?'' - http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3202263.htm But this is plainly said by the prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

Furthermore Papias, Justin and Irenaeus all wrote about the kingdom literally.

petosiris said:

To write off entire or even parts of Christendom in Antiquity as ''Catholicism'' rather than catholicism is monstrously ignorant of history. I don't think you've read any of the church fathers to claim such a thing about literalism (Augustine used much more allegories than some of his contemporaries in many ways - for example he rejected the millenium).

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Funny, but I actually didn't do this, Petosiris, unless your argument hinges on a single capital letter. The point being, how Catholics today (and Protestants) trace their lineage.

And yes, at one point I read a bunch of the church fathers.

Which ones are your favourites?

Petoriris,

1. in my post #522, I asked if your unwillingness "to debate the Trinity with a Jew" was anti-semitic.

2. In my post #523 I asked how you presume to speak for God.

3. In my #524, I asked you questions about your John Adams quote.

4. In my #525, "What are the laws of identity and non-contradiction?"

5. In #553 I asked which of the church fathers were your favourites. But maybe you haven't had time to get to that one yet.

waybread said:

Funny, but I actually didn't do this, Petosiris, unless your argument hinges on a single capital letter. The point being, how Catholics today (and Protestants) trace their lineage.

And yes, at one point I read a bunch of the church fathers.

Which ones are your favourites?

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Exactly, thanks for understanding this. All Christians trace their lineage to the early Christians.

I like the church fathers before the 4th century like Clement, Justin and Irenaeus, as their theology is demonstrably Unitarian. The church fathers after the 4th century are not much worth reading. I wanted to quote something interesting I read the other day from pseudo-Clement (which is in my opinion an 4th century Arian work):

''When Simon heard this, he said: Since you say that we ought not to believe even the prophet that gives signs and wonders if he say that there is another god, and that you know that he even incurs the penalty of death, therefore your teacher also was with reason cut off for having given signs and wonders. And Peter answered: Our Lord neither asserted that there were gods except the Creator of all, nor did He proclaim Himself to be God, but He with reason pronounced blessed him who called Him the Son of that God who has arranged the universe. And Simon answered: Does it not seem to you, then, that he who comes from God is God? And Peter said: Tell us how this is possible; for we cannot affirm this, because we did not hear it from Him.'' - http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/080816.htm

waybread said:

Petoriris,

1. in my post #522, I asked if your unwillingness "to debate the Trinity with a Jew" was anti-semitic.

2. In my post #523 I asked how you presume to speak for God.

3. In my #524, I asked you questions about your John Adams quote.

4. In my #525, "What are the laws of identity and non-contradiction?"

5. In #553 I asked which of the church fathers were your favourites. But maybe you haven't had time to get to that one yet.

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1. Why would you think so?
2. On the basis of the Bible. We are encouraged to speak for God at all times, as Jesus Christ did.
3. He seem to have known the good things of Christendom that you omitted. He was a Unitarian, so he probably knew that Servetus was murdered by Calvin and that the Polish Brethren were persecuted and exiled from Poland by the Catholics. Yet, he didn't reject Christianity because of impostors or emotional arguments, having Jesus Christ and his true followers as light to him.
4. Read the wikipedia, I see that you are familiar with it.
5. I answered that one in my previous post.