My daughter: I don’t know the way forward

Thank you Nymzie. I think you are pretty much spot on. I had a fitful couple nights thinking about this, and any which way I spin her taking the Zoloft she loses. She has to come to that conclusion herself. We have told her to do her research and make her decision, I’m hoping that with the offer of a psychologist she will give up the drug idea. We are supposed to talk this weekend.

I am doing my best to keep my mouth shut. She has problems with authority, same as I did/do. We’re both strong Sags and we both think we know everything.

Any esoteric stuff is a taboo subject and I don’t discuss those things with her, however, I suggested maybe she get a reading when I go, and she was interested - didn’t say no. Since then, I had a mini reading from one of the psychics on facebook, you know, where they say ask a question etc, so I asked do you have anything for my daughter? Guidance? And his response was that she had cut herself off from her source, and I think he is completely on point.

She has to figure it out.

I agree with you she doesn’t seem to know what she wants or needs, and she has admitted as much. What I don’t understand is why she can’t think about the future! It’s like it doesn’t exist. Everything is here and now, and there are no perceived ramifications - that is the completely bizarre part.

For example, she just had a colposcopy and the results were favorable, but she has to go back for a follow up in January. I asked her if she was going to phone in December to book an appointment for Jan and she said they’ll phone her. If it were me, I would be marking my calendar to follow up. She doesn’t see the need ... same with her finances. She thought they would just sort themselves out. ???

I’m working on letting go, I really am. It is good to know/be reinforced that my instinct on this drug stuff is bad for her. For the 2020 January dates, I’m going to conveniently have some sort of thing planned to take care of that. She is no stranger to risky behavior, but maybe by then she’ll have woken up a little.

stormborn said:

She is very very smart, but does not give herself the credit or confidence. I tell her that and she goes into victim mode. Every time she is doing well with money or diet or such, and I tell her so, she sabotages her success. I am not allowed to tell her when she is doing well.

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Here is the thing, you have some Scorpio energy and also Sun-Pluto and Mercury-Pluto aspects. You, mother dear, can be a bit bossy or come across as quite controlling to her, a Sag Sun, Gemini Asc. with Mars on the Asc. She cannot take any 'commands' or 'I know it better' people. The problem is that, whilst you both have excellent aspects to get along with each other, like all that common Sag energy, etc., Sag is also a sign that can be rather prudish and a know-it-all sign. One that cannot take advice from others easily because they think they know it all. So, advice is that when you talk to her (and she is an adult), you need to make it sound like you are having a discussion with her, not a mother that knows better and the daughter better listen. Be her friend. Invite her to advise you on things, too, so you establish a friendship with her.

She went to college & to university, but did not finish. She cites her inability to budget because she can’t add and subtract. (Yes she can, because when she isn’t thinking about what she can’t do, she does it.) Career wise, she is working at a salad bar in a grocery store. Pays super well, union, plus medical & vision benefits. It is the only thing that is stable in her life and she fights it constantly. Doesn’t like working there. She’s been there for 9? Years? Maybe coming to 10? the only reason she stayed is because we forced her with logic. Thank god she listened to that - sorta. She’s interested in business, but doesn’t want to do the education.

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I have to say that, after seeing her chart, I am a bit disappointed that she did not obtain/complete higher education. What a shame because her 9th (higher education) and her 10th house (career) ruler, Saturn, is dignified and strong. Also, a Gem, with a Mercury-Uranus conj., Mars on the Asc. --> all give an above average grasping power. Inside, she knows that "working at a salad bar in a grocery store" is too unfulfilling for her. It is absolutely not challenging enough for her mental abilities. The only good thing about it perhaps is that she deals with people directly, and she is a people's person with the Sun in the 7th house, Gem on the Asc. and Mars right there. She should really consider resuming her education again. Her main problem with Ura-Mer, a Gem Asc. with Mars there is that she has poor concentration power and lacks the ability to pull through. These are aspects that need continual excitement, so the native with such aspects is great at starting new things (because of the curiosity factor and the excitement involved in the beginning), but often lacks the perseverance to pull through and see the project through to the end.

She was natural, all my kids were.

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Thank you for the feedback. Does she have any birth marks? Or, did she fall often as a child (most children do, but you know some will bump against everything almost), or was she a bit hyper as a child? I am trying to understand the Gem Asc. and Mars right there.

Yes, we love her very much. She rebels against me tremendously.

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She has a powerful Moon, in Cancer, so she loves you a lot too. However, read the beginning of this post. She will rebel if she gets the feel that you are lording over her, or giving her a list of 'do's and don't's'. She cannot take that, and that makes her Moon-Ura and the Mars on the Asc. act up and she can fight you off and be very defiant. She is a very freedom-loving person, so you have to give her the feeling that you are discussing things with her, having a conversation with her, but not commanding her.

The only advantage we have here is that we are controlling her funds so she can’t spend anything.

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This quote is the perfect example I can use to explain the paragraph I wrote just before this one. If you were to give her the feeling that you are "controlling" her thru controlling her funds, it will not go well for long, and she will do something behind your back as an act of rebellion. If you, however, conveyed the message to her that you are acting like a bank, where her money is safe (like a depoait) and are actually just helping out, and perhaps sort of give her an example of a situation where she helped you out in some way, then again it puts both parties on equal pedestals. Not a mummy & daddy telling the daughter when she can use her funds and when not.

My husband and I did wonder if she was actually buying stuff for other people which is why she went through all those funds - that is what our gut is telling us but she said no when we asked.

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So, here is the thing with her financial situation per Astrology. Her second house ruler, Mercury, is in the 8th house, so she has a knack of putting herself in debt. Also, she can splurge sporadically given the Uranus-Merc. conjunction. Also, it is generally not good to have a house ruler in the 8th house. See, for native's that have the 8th house ruler in the 2nd house, that usually means that they benefit from others' money. Often the partner will bring them money (8th house is the partner's finances). Also, she has the Moon in the 2nd house, so the finances are not stable (just like the Moon waxes and wanes). However, luckily, the Moon is well placed in Cancer, so she will not be hand-to-mouth, as there will always be someone saving her. Mostly, the Mother (Moon) will always help her out with finances. Or, often some woman will help her out.

When she gets sick, she gets really sick. Now, with the diabetes, if she gets sick, her numbers go super high, and she is down for the count for a week or more. Has she taken responsibility for her diet?

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Asc. or the first house is the house of health and physical constitution, and her Asc. ruler, Merc. is in the 8th house. Like I just said, it is not good to have a house ruler in the 8th. The health is her weak point. She also has Mars on the Asc. Another factor that makes her prone to accidents (often to do with movement - Gem is the sign for that) and with driving she should also be careful. The diabetes comes from Venus in Sag in an aspect to Jupiter in Leo. Both Leo and Sag are signs that overdo things, and Jupiter is a planets that loves overdoing things, too.
She likes to have a good time with people. That could also include alcohol or partying, etc. Can I ask if the diabetes problem was inherited from either of the parents'?

Aquarius7000, you are very accurate and there is much truth in what you say. I know I can come off as bossy, and she has said that. I am trying to be more moderate in what I say, but I get so scared because in an instant I can see the ‘future’ or ‘future possibilities’ and they can be terrifying.

She and I had a talk not long ago, and she told me that I move too fast for her, that I don’t give enough time for her to respond. I joked and said, what, you want more than 5 seconds to reply? That is a lifetime for me. She did laugh. I think we both learned a bit about each other.

I have decided I am going to see a counselor as well in order to be more effective in our communication. I think she was surprised when I told her this. I’ve never been very good at faking anything - especially calmness - so I need to figure out how it to be genuine.

We have talked about her going back to school but she has no funds. We are working on her paying off her current obligations - both us, and the bank. That is where her money is going, she has to do that before she can do anything else. She gets an allowance that she can do with whatever she wants. We promised her one year free rent until she gets her money under control, and she is at a point now where she should be able to pay for her own groceries. That’s a huge step forward. The problem as you noted is her health. She is still living pay Cheque to pay cheque, because she doesn’t feel good sometimes which affects how many hours she works. Re: diabetes, comes from my dad, and I am a bit nervous with the upcoming Jup to my Sun Asc that I may become afflicted too. Is that possible?

Re: her birthmark - she has an area of no pigment on her tummy which goes from just under her rib cage to below her belly button, almost like she has carried over a wound - an operation, or punishment - from a previous life where her tummy was cut open and maybe she didn’t survive. It is about 2 inches wide. I do not remember any other skin birthmarks. She was not really hyper as a child, but she always placed other people above her family. I never understood that. She never really fell all that much, and she’s had one accident where she totaled her car last year, 2 June where she rear ended a woman who’s husband was a lawyer. She got a new (used) car but instead of paying for the car with the insurance money, she got a loan and spent the insurance money. A few months later, she defaulted on her car insurance, which we bailed her out of in December as she was going to those instant credit people. Then she defaulted on them. Finally in April when her car was repossessed and we had a bailiff knocking on our door, we had enough, and got more involved and took over her finances which led to a lot of the sanctions we imposed on her to get her back on track. It’s been a long road.

We will talk again about education. Since her car was repossessed, and her credit cards were not paid, her credit rating has tanked. But maybe we could get something started in a student loan for the new year. I know she is interested, but she has difficulty maintaining that interest as you noted, and as I have seen, where she doesn’t finish. I was like that too, until I learned (from the military) how to access stamina. She has it too, she just doesn’t know how to get to it. She would be a brilliant psychologist or social worker. She is meant to help people I know that, and I have told her that. I think she knows down deep too. You have provided another way in for that discussion, thank you.

I am not sure I understand what you mean about rulers in the 8th house. I do understand that she has a knack of putting herself in debt but I think this mom has finally learned how to provide boundaries for what I will allow and not enable. Thanks Saturn. I have my moon in 2 as well, so I get how difficult it is to monitor funds, but at least I am trying. She needs to try too. I can forgive almost anything if someone is at least trying.

Ps, one of the things she told us a few days ago is that she has anxiety because she replays conversations over and over in her mind, and then (I think she said) that she loses grip on what really happened. She’s lost confidence in speaking with people, and she said she doesn’t want to be around people. I am not sure of the extent of that, it just reminded me when you spoke earlier of gem & people.

stormborn said:

...I have decided I am going to see a counselor as well in order to be more effective in our communication. I think she was surprised when I told her this. I’ve never been very good at faking anything - especially calmness - so I need to figure out how it to be genuine.

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Excellent decision to talk to a counsellor. Be honest with the counsellor. Also, faking is never good because it doesn't last long. A bit of a tricky situation and there comes out the real you. Yes, your chart clearly shows a person that can be very overbearing and overwhelming for the other party. Your intentions are good, but the style needs some fine tuning, and there the counselling should help.
This is a good point to show off to your daughter and perhaps let her know that we all need to be self aware of what we need to improve in ourselves and take action. Give her your example. That will convey the message to her.

We have talked about her going back to school but she has no funds. We are working on her paying off her current obligations - both us, and the bank. That is where her money is going, she has to do that before she can do anything else. She gets an allowance that she can do with whatever she wants. We promised her one year free rent until she gets her money under control, and she is at a point now where she should be able to pay for her own groceries. That’s a huge step forward.

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Here is the thing, just keep in mind that as her age increases, her interest in wanting to resume education might decline. Also, she might get involved in other things and lose interest in higher education. So, whatever your requisites or issues might be, as of now, with her resuming education, I would suggest (obviously you know best) that if she is really serious about taking up education again right now, let her do so. Of course, counsel her and let her know that she needs to complete whatever she starts. Let her study what she feels like. She can teach counselling even. She has Aquarius on her tenth house, so, if not computers, she will do social work. The Aquarius energy is great at that.

The problem as you noted is her health. She is still living pay Cheque to pay cheque, because she doesn’t feel good sometimes which affects how many hours she works. Re: diabetes, comes from my dad, and I am a bit nervous with the upcoming Jup to my Sun Asc that I may become afflicted too. Is that possible?

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Try to cut white sugar out of your diet as much as you can. Stick to fruit for that sweet taste. Don't even touch aerated drinks and coke, mountain dew, etc. Also, anything with white flour is extremely bad. Like cakes, cookies, white bread and rolls, pretzels, etc. You sure have the tendency for the ailment also.

Re: her birthmark - she has an area of no pigment on her tummy which goes from just under her rib cage to below her belly button

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Can I ask how your daughter is to look at? I mean is she thin and sort of wiry. Does she have red hair or sort of redness in her complexion/ skin? Does she have a rugged look about her self (style of dressing might be boisterous)? Did she have a problem with acne or ulcers? Does she have marks or flecks on her face/ head area?

She was not really hyper as a child, but she always placed other people above her family.

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I think I touched upon this in one of my earlier posts that she has the Sun and Jupiter in mutual dignity. Her Sun rules her 4th house (parental home), but is in the 7th (Others), whilst her Jupiter rules her 7th house and is in her 4th. She feels that 'others' are her family.

She never really fell all that much, and she’s had one accident where she totaled her car last year, 2 June where she rear ended a woman who’s husband was a lawyer. She got a new (used) car but instead of paying for the car with the insurance money, she got a loan and spent the insurance money. A few months later, she defaulted on her car insurance, which we bailed her out of

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This too I touched upon earlier, she has a problem with movement and locomotion incl. commute. Gemini rules car driving of short distances and she has Mars in Gem on her Asc. Her car wrecks is something you might need to get used to, and she MUST exercise great caution there, so she doesn't have physical injuries. Cars can be replaced, but not physical organs that easily. I am SO relieved that, with that position of Mars, she does not have a Uranus-Mars aspect. That would not have been good.

I am not sure I understand what you mean about rulers in the 8th house. I do understand that she has a knack of putting herself in debt

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The second half of your sentence is the answer to the first half of your sentence.

All in all, one thing for you to remember is that whilst you might have learnt to deal with certain issues that she faces (like money matters and the Moon in the second house), she is not the same age as you and does not yet have all the life experience that you do. So comparisons should certainly not be put across to her as comparisons, but as suggestions.

Her anxiety in dealing with others will stop in about 4-5 months from now.

stormborn said:

She did a lot on her own. My protection was from drugs. The friends she got herself involved in in her teenage years - like many others - were involved in the drug scene, to the point where she was suspended from school...

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Just read this part, so much after the mile long posts I wrote. And, in one of those posts I mentioned that there is a danger with her getting involved with drugs.

This remains life long and not only with drugs like crack, etc., but also with regular prescribed medicines, where she might do an overdose, or get addicted to opiod, which is quite a racket right now. One more thing, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE try to keep her AWAY from anti-depression or anti-anxiety drugs. In America, doctors are VERY quick at prescribing such drugs and people are even quicker at taking them. Those could ruin her.

Sports and Yoga are her safest and most effective bet.

Thank you Aquarius7000, I appreciate the time and energy you are putting in to this situation.

We had a talk tonight and it was a good one I think, but we will see. She has decided not to go on the Zoloft - basing this on things she has thought about, but she has done no research. She said if the therapy doesn’t work, then she will reconsider. When I told her I was going to see a counselor as well, she wants me to go to the same one as her, which I thought was surprising, but I agreed.

We listened to an audio tonight: https://feelinggood.com/2015/02/09/fast-effective-therapy-for-social-anxiety/ Just the last 45 minutes. I didn’t pre-listen entirely, but there was someone on there who asked about anxiety & meds & patients. The dr said that he won’t treat anyone who is on drugs because of the addiction, and that anxiety can be successfully treated without drugs!! I could feel her ears were open.

I hear you about the prescriptions being overdone. The dr she went to here (new dr, as we moved) prescribed her Zoloft after having talked to her for 30 minutes! And then her next appt was not for another 2 weeks! How is that counselling? Very irresponsible.

Re: others as family. I understand what you are saying - that she feels closer to her friends rather than us, but when push comes to shove, those friends don’t help her out, we do. I am looking forward to the day where she doesn’t just take, but she also gives to us. And those friends of hers are the ones who are most willing to lead her astray - because misery loves company, and their successful addition of another person to their lost cause is enabling.

We did talk about education again tonight, and she said she won’t be ready until next Sep. I’ve got a good feeling about that time frame. When she went before, she chose her own subjects & study area, my only request was that they be transferable between universities and colleges. She understood that, and could see the wisdom in that as well.

Thank you for the guidance re: food. I tend to internalize anxiety and am a food addict - not the good kind.

Re: appearance, To look at Kim is my height, so 5’4, she has large bones, blond hair blue eyes. The front part of her hair, so from her face back to just after her ears can be white white blond. Very fair skin, burns very easy. She was 9 when menses activated. Afterwards, she had difficulty being female when that happened, and I almost thought she wanted to be a boy for the longest time. She dressed very Tom boy, plaid shirts. She was big busted but since the diabetes and she lost a ton of weight which she is now slowly regaining (thank god), that has not reconstituted fully. She has grace and style, and I think she is quite beautiful. She does have oily skin, did have trouble with acne until late teens I think.

She doesn’t like sports, and I am not sure about yoga. I think she tried it, but I don’t know how convicted she feels about continuing.

I don’t feel we are out of the woods yet in terms of this drug stuff, can you tell me that there will actually come a day when I won’t have to worry all the time?

Today, despite what could be positive moves forward, I had an emotional breakdown. All I could think about was how my daughter was never going to be safe and that she will die before me.

I did a solar return chart for both of us, we will be in Kona, HI for our birthdays. Her Mars will be in her first house once again, and I will have Uranus in mine.
Her Asc is 2 Libra, exactly trine her natal asc.

Is there anything positive that can be said for the future? Maybe the way out for her is to find a strong partner who can help her. Thoughts on when that could be?

Whilst it is normal for parents to be worried about their children, no matter how old they are, but you might be overreacting. You might want to stop doing charts and then pessimistically interpreting them. Get your counselling. Your daughter's chart is like any other natal chart I have seen. Actually, even easier than some that I have seen. So, no need to overthink. She is living with you, which in itself gives you control over her in a good way.

Happy Solstice everyone.

Thank you for all your help with this. I am happy to say that my daughter has gone/is going to counselling, and things seem to be progressing in a positive manner. She went a couple times a week but is down to once every few weeks.

At the beginning, I went a few times and we discussed possibilities. I did mention that K needed to be around other people and that we just moved to our new city. We agreed that the counselor would bring up the idea of volunteering, and K is now volunteering out of a theatre here. She said she is so much happier just having that interaction.

I am so glad she did not go on pills/medication. We aren’t out of the woods just yet, but I am hoping all continues upward. I appreciate your words of wisdom and your perspectives. I may come off as being negative and pessimistic, but I only ask the questions when I am at the end of my rope, and I have no where to turn.

Thanks for updating us, Stormborn. And, you can always come back and ask questions.