Is this dangerous?

Ok, here is the situation. My lover has asked me to enter into the BDSM lifestyle with him. I would be the slave, and he would be my master. Other astrologers have told me that this is very likely to be dangerous towards me and could possibly even end in my death. So the question that I asked was "Would it be physically dangerous for me to enter into a slave/master relationship with my lover?"

Ok, I am guessing the 8th house would be the house that would hold the answer to this question. The 8th house is in Libra, which is ruled by Venus

The ascendant is in Aquarius, so Saturn would represent me. Saturn happens to be sitting in the 8th house.

So I need to look for aspects between Saturn and Venus.

We have Saturn Sextile Venus. This aspect is separating...
Then we have Moon Trine Venus. This aspect is also separating...

Would I be wrong in thinking that it is a negative answer, especially being that Saturn is the signifactor, and Saturn is all about control and domination. Both aspects are separating.
 

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dr. farr

Well-known member
First question would be: are you talking about role playing here, as acting out sexual fantasy OR are you talking about an actual, real world enslavement of you to him, in your full relationship with him, in day to day life?
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
OK-now to be clear (for me to be clear), are you asking:
-if you should do this
...or simply
-if doing so would be physically dangerous to you
 

tikana

Well-known member
i dont like this chart 1 bit
first we have a problem with Saturn
it is about to enter via combusta
2nd itis in 8th house '
also mars is in 5th house ill placed - NO WAY!
yeah it is in somewhat of a dangerous situation


i;d say there is physical harm
 
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Anachiel

Well-known member
Interesting question.

Here is my take on this.

Saturn LIKES rules and BOUNDARIES and is generally known for LIMITATIONS. Describes your ideas about this relationship perfectly.

Your partner is the Sun and the Sun is at home in Leo. Matches someone who might like control. And, he is even over there in his own house, the 7th. Not really thinking of you here, just himself. Perfect.

Now, you are not so bad off yourself, only exalted though. This means by the grace of another, you thrive or are graced with something more than you would have on your own merits. Guess that fits the Slave/Master role.

There is, however, no danger in this horary. Nothing afflicts the ASC, or your significator Saturn, nor the Moon. There is also nothing that indicates that it would be a scene of perpetual servitude or that this role play will last much.

The Moon makes one more aspect and that is to Mercury, ruler of the 5th of pleasure. Mercury is conjunct Regulus and that is a rough but regal star. Seems to describe a king(master)/servant sexual situation.

Also, the Moon is mutual receipt Jupiter ruler of the 10th and 11th. This could indicate assistance from others more advanced, trained, skilled or adept in this field (BDSM) that you may want to consult and learn from before commiting to anything. Also, with your Saturn significator you may want to define "safe words", boundaries and such things with your partner so that they can learn your limits and respect them just as you rule by serving.

In essence though I see this as a sexual outlet moreso than some lifestyle of indentured servitude. And the chart indicates that this partner may wane of this with you as the Sun is currently leaving Saturn. Venus is in the picture though and may also know this Jupiter person I described above. Neither one of them live too far it appears.

Stay safe.

Blessings,

Anachiel
 
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BobZemco

Well-known member
Ok, I am guessing the 8th house would be the house that would hold the answer to this question.

Not necessarily.

i dont like this chart 1 bit
first we have a problem with Saturn
it is about to enter via combusta
2nd itis in 8th house '
also mars is in 5th house ill placed - NO WAY!
yeah it is in somewhat of a dangerous situation


i;d say there is physical harm

It's a fair cop.

You are Saturn, the Moon, and Venus
Your partner is the Sun and Jupiter

Saturn, is Exalted, Correct Sect, Cadent in the 9th house, Trines the Ascendant (You have control of these matters because you can see the 1st house), and Squares Mars; Mars is the Fall of Libra, which is bad. Mars in this chart rules the 3rd house and 10th. The 10th represents your status, dignity, career; With negative Reception, you'll lose rank and become a "slave".

The Sun, in it's own Rulership, Angular in the 7th, Trines the Moon, Jupiter, and forces Venus into Combustion. It receives the Moon by Triplicity... dear god forget it

The Sun is in the Correct Sect, so he's not a malicious person; he has no intentions to harm you.

Venus, which is you, is Combust and Squares the Part of Death at 19 degree Scorpio. Venus hates Scorpio, and the Combustion tells me you're going to die before him. Now that's 2 testimonies of death, which is not enough.

The Moon's next aspect is a Trine to Mercury. Mercury, is Peregrine, Retrograde, in the 7th house. Mercury rules the 5th house(sex, plays, restaurants) and 8th(death, anxiety, partners money). So the Querent, is scared, having second thoughts on these matters.

Now the interesting thing for this chart is the Translation of Light between the Moon, Jupiter, and Mercury. The Reception between those 3 fit perfectly. This tells me that you're going to go through with this for him and not yourself er.. like a sacrifice, but at a later time.

The only danger I see is not physical, but more of a humiliation for the Native

That's a nice analysis, but not applicable here.

Let's go back to the Question: "Would it be physically dangerous for me to enter into a slave/master relationship with my lover?"

That is a 1st House Question.

Our significators would be Saturn/Moon for Querent, and the 6th, 8th and 12th Houses and Rulers.

Sun is Hour Ruler and comports with the Nature of Aquarius.

The first thing that should jump out and smack us oops upside the head is that a single Planet rules both the 12th and 1st Houses here, namely Saturn.

That is self-undoing, and it should be crystal clear that the Querent should run away from this situation as fast as possible to prevent destroying herself.

Saturn is exalted in Libra, Cadent and in Hayz. Unfortunately, Saturn is also afflicted by the square without Reception from Mars. I will address that later.

Moon is terribly afflicted here being conjunct its own Head and being Out-of-Sect. A significator Out-of-Sect is something contrary to its own Nature, or doing something inappropriate or incompetent to act.

All three of those apply. You aren't into S&M because it's contrary to your Nature; it is inappropriate for you to engage in S&M, and you are incompetent to act, although I'm not exactly certain why that is because there's a question of secondary significators.

The Moon rules the 6th House and is also the Dispositor of the Lot of Death at 9° Cancer. Note that Malefic Impeded Out-of-Bounds Cancer Mars ruling the Scorpio 10th and Aries 3rd is applying to the Lot of Death.

For that reason, I'm inclined to choose a secondary significator in lieu of Moon. This Question does have a bearing on relationships, specifically a sexual relationship, so Venus may the usual suspect.

If we look at Venus, Venus is Combust and thus Querent is powerless, plus Venus is Out-of-Sect which leads us back to something contrary to its own Nature, or doing something inappropriate or incompetent to act.

Moon ruling the 6th cannot aspect Venus because Venus is joined by body to Sun, but unfortunately, Venus will separate from Sun and Moon will join Venus by opposition without Reception. Not good. That implies injury to you, possibly even death since that opposition would occur with Venus in your 7th and Moon in his 7th House which is your 1st House (he is still 7th House and Ruler here).

Worse than that, Venus is moving to join Peregrine Retrograde Out-of-Sect Mercury by body in the 7th House, an house of death.

That conjunction is by Mutual Application and any aspect by Mutual Application shows something that is swift, sudden, forceful and often violent, especially where Violent Signs or Violent Human Signs are involved. Aquarius is a Violent Human Sign, while Leo is a Feral/Wild Sign or Bestial Sign.

That is the possibility of serious injury, serious injury leading to death or death, with Mercury ruling the 8th Sign.

The 4th, 7th and 8th House are actually the Houses of Death. The 1st Triplicity Ruler of the 4th Sign, Taurus, Venus is a significator of Death.

So you effectively have Death meets Death by Mutual Application in a House of Death.

If we take another tact, we could use the Ascendant Triplicity Rulers as a secondary significator for Querent. Since Saturn is the 1st Triplicity Ruler and already represents the Querent, we would look to the 2nd Triplicity Ruler who is Peregrine Retrograde Out-of-Sect Mercury.

Once again, we have something contrary to its own Nature, or doing something inappropriate or incompetent to act. Mercury is Under Beams and applying to Combustion, showing Querent to be powerless.

Moon will trine Mercury without Reception by Mutual Application. That also indicates a possibility of serious injury or death.

In looking at the 12th House, that is chronic illnesses or an injury that lasts more than 1 year, ruled by Saturn, who is applying to the Lot of Chronic Illness at 27° Libra. Venus is the Dispositor of the Lot of Chronic Illness, and we already went over Venus who is the 1st Triplicity Ruler 4th House Death and will again be conjoining Mercury the 8th House Ruler of Death. And again we have the potential for serious injury, serious injury leading to death or death.

There's also a potential for chronic illness, meaning a venereal disease or injuries to the breasts or genitalia, or to the internal reproductive organs that could render you childless, even more so since Mercury rules your 5th House and Saturn is the 1st Triplicity Ruler of the 5th House.

Now, I'll put on my police, detective sergeant and private investigator hats (since I used to do be those things) and I will state with certainty that he is not alone.

I'm not saying that he has someone else or that he's cheating on you, I'm simply saying that he is not alone. These people run in groups.

I can guarantee that one night you'll be in a bedroom, living room or basement at someone's house and there will be 4-10 or more of his S&M friends there.

If you don't like group sex or multiple partners, and the though of getting banged by a German Shepard or Belgian Bouvier turns you off, then this not for you. Note that Mercury rules his 11th House (your 5th House) so his friends would be involved. Yes, Sun is in Leo and Leo is a Fixed Sign and Fixed Signs mean "1" but Sun is also Hour Ruler and that means more than "1."

Usually Sun is the secondary significator for men, but if Sun is the primary, then we look at Mars. We see Malefic Impeded Out-of-Bounds Cancer Mars in his 12th House (your 6th House). He is not the nice guy Sun makes him appear to be.

Note that Malefic Impeded Out-of-Bounds Cancer Mars is moving to square Saturn. What kind of square? A Dexter Square without Reception, meaning a "10th Sign Square." Mars is "over-coming" Saturn and will crush and destroy Saturn.

Moon in her own Decan, are you even from Minot? Are you military, military brat, contractor, contractor brat? Who is he? He's not just anyone in the community.

You're in over your head here, and it would be best to end this relationship, since it appears it will anyway whether you want it or not and probably not on your terms. There is a high potential of bodily harm to you. That harm could range from disease to injury, to permanent/chronic injury to death.
 
I thank you all for the answers. Now the problem I have is that I got both positive and negative answers which I wasn't expecting!

I think the other person that both Bob and Anachiel are seeing is my other lover who is not currrently aware of the lover in this question.

I am actually into S&M. I've experimented with it in the past for several years before this relationship, just never in this capacity. So it isn't something that I have never tried before.

He isn't into multiple sexual partners so venereal disease is not an issue. We are both clean as far as that is concerned.

No, he isn't alone. Like I said, I believe the other person that is being seen is my other lover who is not aware of the situation.

He doesn't really have a whole bunch of friends, and none that are into S&M. He himself is a beginner in S&M. Right now, none of his friends or family are even aware of our relationship.

Yes, I was both born and raised in Minot. He isn't anyone special in the community, he was just a neighbor of mine, and that's how we met.
 

Ruka_5

Banned
Interesting question.

Here is my take on this.

Saturn LIKES rules and BOUNDARIES and is generally known for LIMITATIONS. Describes your ideas about this relationship perfectly.

Your partner is the Sun and the Sun is at home in Leo. Matches someone who might like control. And, he is even over there in his own house, the 7th. Not really thinking of you here, just himself. Perfect.

Now, you are not so bad off yourself, only exalted though. This means by the grace of another, you thrive or are graced with something more than you would have on your own merits. Guess that fits the Slave/Master role.

There is, however, no danger in this horary. Nothing afflicts the ASC, or your significator Saturn, nor the Moon. There is also nothing that indicates that it would be a scene of perpetual servitude or that this role play will last much.

The Moon makes one more aspect and that is to Mercury, ruler of the 5th of pleasure. Mercury is conjunct Regulus and that is a rough but regal star. Seems to describe a king(master)/servant sexual situation.

Also, the Moon is mutual receipt Jupiter ruler of the 10th and 11th. This could indicate assistance from others more advanced, trained, skilled or adept in this field (BDSM) that you may want to consult and learn from before commiting to anything. Also, with your Saturn significator you may want to define "safe words", boundaries and such things with your partner so that they can learn your limits and respect them just as you rule by serving.

In essence though I see this as a sexual outlet moreso than some lifestyle of indentured servitude. And the chart indicates that this partner may wane of this with you as the Sun is currently leaving Saturn. Venus is in the picture though and may also know this Jupiter person I described above. Neither one of them live too far it appears.

Stay safe.

Blessings,

Anachiel



Control and power are Pluto/Scorpio themes.

Not Leo/sun.

The seventh house is also the house of 'the other' has to do with relationships, as well as open enemies. Not the self.
 

Anachiel

Well-known member
Control and power are Pluto/Scorpio themes.

Not Leo/sun.

The seventh house is also the house of 'the other' has to do with relationships, as well as open enemies. Not the self.

I'm sorry, I'm a traditional astrologer and we don't use the [once a planet but not anymore] Pluto. These sorts of debates are also available on other threads.

Thank you
 

Anachiel

Well-known member
Saturn is exalted in Libra, Cadent and in Hayz. Unfortunately, Saturn is also afflicted by the square without Reception from Mars. I will address that later.
---snip---
Note that Malefic Impeded Out-of-Bounds Cancer Mars is moving to square Saturn. What kind of square? A Dexter Square without Reception, meaning a "10th Sign Square." Mars is "over-coming" Saturn and will crush and destroy Saturn.

Not to be nit-picky or thread on anyone's toes here but....Mars cannot square Saturn. Jupiter prevents this and therefore is an assist (as it is also in MR with Moon).
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
Not to be nit-picky or thread on anyone's toes here but....Mars cannot square Saturn. Jupiter prevents this and therefore is an assist (as it is also in MR with Moon).

Mars sextiles Jupiter, then separates from Jupiter, then perfects the square with Saturn.
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
Right, in traditional horary that's called Prohibition; Jupiter prohibits the aspect of Mars with Saturn.

Lily calls it "Prohibition" but no one else does. Everyone else calls it blocking/barring.

And it is temporary, not permanent.

Abu Ma'shar says: [Blocking] comes to be two ways. One, from the conjunction. This is if there are three planets in one sign, in different degrees, and the weightier one is in more degrees. Then, the middle one prohibits the one who was less in degrees from the conjunction of the weighty one, until it crosses over it. Like if Saturn were in Aries in the 20th degree, and Mercury were in the same sign in the 15th degree, and Venus in the same sign in the 10th degree. Therefore, Mercury prohibits Venus lest she be joined to Saturn, until Mercury crosses over Saturn. After this, there will be a conjunction of Venus with Saturn.

The last part is key.

Mercury is in "Prohibition" to use Lily's term, but only until Mercury separates from the aspect.

After Mercury separates from the aspect, then Venus can make her aspect with Saturn in the example that Abu Ma'shar gives.

Right now, Jupiter is blocking Mars from making the aspect with Saturn, but once Mars separates from the sextile, he is free to make the square with Saturn.

That's one reason many Horary Questions go astray. You have use an ephemeris or have software that steps through so that you can see that the aspect is Perfected.

You'll often find that the aspect is pefected, but in the next Sign. That's usually the case when one Planet is chasing another. The Planet escapes into the next Sign barring the aspect, but then the chasing Planet also changes Signs. That of course will change the reading since the Signs can change the Planets.

As best I can tell, so long as the two Planets are within 1° they are in aspect and nothing can interfere. Until that time, another Planet can block the aspect or interfere either permanently or temporarily.

Permanent blocking is usually the case with two slow Planets applying to aspect and a fast Planet trying to aspect one of them, Like Mars applying to Jupiter and Mercury coming up fast, except Mars gets locked into the aspect before Mercury can get there, and then Mercury moves right over them and out of orb long before Mars separates from Jupiter.
 

Ruka_5

Banned
I'm sorry, I'm a traditional astrologer and we don't use the [once a planet but not anymore] Pluto. These sorts of debates are also available on other threads.

Thank you

Even in traditional, the sun isn't typically associated with power and control issues, sorry. All things having to do with control, power, and the lack thereof...limitation...responsibility...all Saturn.

[deleted attacking comment - Moderator]
 
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tikana

Well-known member
Interesting question.

Here is my take on this.

Saturn LIKES rules and BOUNDARIES and is generally known for LIMITATIONS. Describes your ideas about this relationship perfectly.

Your partner is the Sun and the Sun is at home in Leo. Matches someone who might like control. And, he is even over there in his own house, the 7th. Not really thinking of you here, just himself. Perfect.

Now, you are not so bad off yourself, only exalted though. This means by the grace of another, you thrive or are graced with something more than you would have on your own merits. Guess that fits the Slave/Master role.

There is, however, no danger in this horary. Nothing afflicts the ASC, or your significator Saturn, nor the Moon. There is also nothing that indicates that it would be a scene of perpetual servitude or that this role play will last much.

The Moon makes one more aspect and that is to Mercury, ruler of the 5th of pleasure. Mercury is conjunct Regulus and that is a rough but regal star. Seems to describe a king(master)/servant sexual situation.

Also, the Moon is mutual receipt Jupiter ruler of the 10th and 11th. This could indicate assistance from others more advanced, trained, skilled or adept in this field (BDSM) that you may want to consult and learn from before commiting to anything. Also, with your Saturn significator you may want to define "safe words", boundaries and such things with your partner so that they can learn your limits and respect them just as you rule by serving.

In essence though I see this as a sexual outlet moreso than some lifestyle of indentured servitude. And the chart indicates that this partner may wane of this with you as the Sun is currently leaving Saturn. Venus is in the picture though and may also know this Jupiter person I described above. Neither one of them live too far it appears.

Stay safe.

Blessings,

Anachiel


I have to say you are right. Sun is stronger than Saturn in this chart.
Sun is in domocile while Saturn is exalted - Sun is stronger
Sun is angular while saturn is succeedent - sun is stronger
Sun overpowers Saturn which is pretty much what is this chart is saying

Robert Deluce writes
"the highest essential dignity of a planet is its location in the sign of its rulership. (Thus, mars in the sign of Aries is essentially dignified). In Horary astrology it signifies a person well situated in regard to his property, social position and general affairs."
Lilly says when a planet is its own rulership it has little no regard for the other person esp when it is in its own 1st house.

This bf of the querent's does not really care about the welfare of the querent therefore I am not giving a thumbs up on this query.

the fact that saturn is in 8th house - loss/death.. where as venus is conj sun - it will benefit him but harm the querent. for slavery you gotta have 12th house involved not 8!

there is a whole subchapter in Lilly, if one should return from the war.
Lilly writes "The lord of the ascendant in the 8th or with its lord or the lord of the 8th in the ascendant denotes the querent's death And the lord of the 7th in the second or with its lord shews the death of the adversary. If the lord of the 7th be strong and have good aspects from the 10th or its lord the querent will gain honour " That is exactly what Bob was saying
"In the same manner as the 8th house and its lord shew death the 12th and its lord denote imprisonment "

There are tons of red flags in this chart!!!!!!!!!



T
 
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nemesis

Well-known member
not anything horary related but...

in such a relationship you have to trust that person -100%- you cannot have any "ifs" about it.

whether you listen to everyone or not think to yourself if you basically trust this person with your life and well-being.
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
Even in traditional, the sun isn't typically associated with power and control issues, sorry.

You might want to check that again. The Sun represents Authority. It also represents government, heads-of-State, leaders, employers, supervisors, men in general, your father, your brother, your son, male friends, male co-woers.

I see absolutely nothing but issues of power and control with respect to the Sun.

The Sun cannot represent authority without power and control, and authority itself can do nothing without power and control.

I have to say you are right. Sun is stronger than Saturn in this chart.
Sun is in domocile while Saturn is exalted - Sun is stronger
Sun is angular while saturn is succeedent - sun is stronger
Sun overpowers Saturn which is pretty much what is this chart is saying

I would add to that further by pointing out that Saturn is Occidental, setting after the Sun sets, and that weakens Saturn.

Saturn is also a Masculine Planet in a Feminine Sign in a Day Chart Above Earth and that weakens Saturn. Saturn is also in a Feminine Degree, but a Bright Degree, so that would off-set.

Sun is Slow, Saturn is Fast, but still, over all Sun is stronger than Saturn in this Chart.

This bf of the querent's does not really care about the welfare of the querent therefore I am not giving a thumbs up on this query.

I see nothing good here. Having Capricorn 12th and Aquarius 1st is a sure sign of self-undoing. We've seen that before and it always turns out badly. Best case scenario would be she loses her husband/boyfriend after he finds she's cheating and who she really is.
 

Raquel

Well-known member
I am talking about real world enslavement both in and out of the bedroomm

I just don't get it... what are the advantages for you??? Are you selfless??

Playing a harmless role in bed is ok. But real world enslavement it's kinf of freak.

you are an individual, you have your own thoughts, your own wishes, How can be interesting be dominated for real??

Is this love? Someone propose you to be his slave? and he's the master for REAL??? WTF...
Tell me what the point is because I really can't get it.

And this is not a question for astrology to answer... this is a question of state of mind. If you die in one of these real games you're thinking to put yourself into, that's your problem... if you stop to think, maybe you'll know the answer.
 
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