Discussion on Nexus's Article on Nodes.

If you would like to discuss any aspects from Nexus's Article on The Education Board:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=103140#post103140

Then feel free to do so here.
Thanks Nexus. that's very informative, with useful references for us all.
Cheers, Lillyjgc

Good article Nexus and research on others writings.

I have found that most descriptions of the nodes although varied, tend end up at the same point anyway. In my recent blog about Mars South Node, I have my own opinion of the nodal points and describe them as the cosmic gestalt points. Living in the here and now can be distorted by being focussed on the past. I do come from a philosophical-psychotherapy perspective.

The idea of playing out our psychological Life Script (patterns and beliefs about our-self in relation to the world) which are established in developmental years is also highly indicative of the south nodal point.

When the ruling planet of the north Node is conjunct the South Node, then a persons tends to be inexplicably tied to their past and will struggle in some creative way to break free from that "karma". Ones life tied up in the south node issues can be like complete denial of ones patterns or having to overcompensate to live in the here and now.

kingsley

Kinglsey

I knew someone who had Mercury conjunct SNode once, and what was noticeable about him was he way he compulsively talked without really listening to anyone (maybe it was in his 1st House too). I think most people did not want to risk confronting him about this quirk though, as nobody wanted to hurt his feelings.

As said - I can imagine that the SNode can represent a bit if a 'blind spot' in our make-up, as I suggested in the article, therefore, genuinely and literally a bit of a sensitive point.

That would almost certainly make sense with what you are talking about with Mars, South Node and the school bully for example, from the brief look I have taken of your article.

Anyway, I was looking for consensual interpretations on both nodal points and what possibly cultural understanding of them can do to bear on the slant of intepretation we give them.

I would be particularly curious to hear any more Vedic points of view on them here, though of course, any first-hand understanding of how they operate in our charts might be intereating.

Nexus,
After I read your Article (a few times), I got to thinking about my own nodes.I'm aware from Horary how important they can be, and I understand that one is meant to interpret them very specifically in horary. Its a bit different to Natal.

I have my N node in Cap. in H1. So I decided to do some research.
Firstly, I looked at *the big Events* in my life. (Fortunately, I have been into astrology for a long time and my virgo moon has resulted in good record keeping with accurate times for most of the big events in my life -so far), so have plenty of *material*.

When I looked at Events: such as the death of my firstborn,death of my father, step-father, grandmother,some crucial days involving health, accidents etc...you get the idea..I could not see any action around my nodes.I expected to,as some of these events certainly had a karmic flavour to them.I'd be very interested to hear about others' experiences of nodal transits at crucial times.

I then looked at the relationships between my nodes (both of them) and planets/points in charts of significant others in my life. I see there, my daughter's dad has his natal sun in my h7 exactly conjunct my *south node*, so opposite my north node. Our *relationship* certainly seems to have been *fated/destined* in some way.
My son's father, has his natal north node conjunct mine.
My *best friend* has her north node trine to my venus-exact.
My daughter's jupiter is exactly conjunct my south node.My son's ascendant conjuncts my north node...My teacher/mentor in life has his jupiter conjunct my south node.
So I am tending to agree with you that in natal, it is not a case of one node being *good* and the other *bad*, but that certain contacts we make which seem *fated/destined* connect to one end of the nodal axis or the other.Maybe this will tell us something about the *nature* of the karmic event we are experiencing, for example whether it relates to our past or to our future, what we will take with us, what we will leave behind us...in this life (and/or the next.depending on what one believes).
I also have a friend whose north node is connected by squares and oppositions involving 5 planets as well. His life seems *thwarted*, but he did once remark that he felt like *the odds were stacked against him*. Chart-wise that appeared to be the case.I was struck by the amount of nodal involvement there.

What are your experiences, folks, with nodes in your charts and significant others'? I'd be interested to hear.
Cheers, Lillyjgc

Wow Nexus, that's a comprehensive and absorbing article.

You asked for experiences re. North Node = grow up socially. Mine is in Taurus, suggesting a need to appreciate the physical pleasures of life - with South Node in Scorpio providing a talent for passion, power, self-control and spiritual development. Both my older sister and my first girlfriend are Taurus Sun and these two worked hard to make me understand that "refusing to let your hair down/enjoy life" equates to social immaturity. And, later a female colleague with Moon in Taurus worked covertly towards the same end. So, I'd agree that growing up socially may be a function of the North Node.

In addition, your comments left me wondering if the SN = talent / NN = social maturity isn't reflected by the biblical Parable of the Talents. We come into life with a specific talent which we ignore/bury or hone/increase twofold - but, for a tenfold increase, we have to encourage others to develop the talent/emulate us. And that encouragement comes from being a "Mozart with social skills" rather than a self-obssessed musical genius.

Lilly

My second paragraph also applies to your question.

EJ

born to node, to Nexus

Nexus,

I think that we are born into the South node and our challenge is to develop our North node possibilities. This doesn't mean that we "reject" our "bad" South node, but rather that we USE our South node skills as we work towards developing the "opposite pole", the North node. I have noticed that people who have planets conjunct (energy is combined with) the South node (the past) can become "stuck in the past" and have a sense that they can't "move on" in their life. On the other hand, I have also noticed people with planets conjunct the North node (future goals) can easily move forward at developing their goals in their life.

Nodalling around,

Tim

Hi Lily

In my family, mother and brother both have their Moon on my SNode, my BF has his Mars there.

Transits to NNode can be 'lucky' in the reported Jupiterian way - one a new moon to it last year, I was stopped in the street and asked to participate in a 'fashion parade' of their city. Just a nice sort of a fillip.

I think there can be a tendency to really look up to people where there is a strong NNode conection - certainly that is the case with two people I have known with Jupiter links to it for me now. After all, that is where you may be seeking to ingest and to find the 'missing link' in order to become more complete.

I know for the Vedics Rahu, or NNode has something to do with the 'shock of the new' and 'rules' culture shock and foreigners - any thoughts there from anyone?

Wilsontc

Could be, Kevin Burk articulated better than I have what it is about most nodal interpretations that did not quite answer certain questions for me. It does seem as though the Nnode is where we 'need' to ingest using the experience we have accumulated at the SNode to help us on our way there, but I still wanted to get away from any 'good/bad' paradigms

...and that's the other thing. In Placidus anyway, my NNode is in the 10th, in Libra...now my Midheaven may have just about gone into Libra, but otherwise is still at the last degree of Virgo (and the nodes aren't conjunct for me). Either way, this is what I teach, this is how I make my bread-and-butter at the moment: honing negotiation skills, making small talk, building relationships: though vivid Aries South Node metaphors taken from sport, war, gambling, all come up and for all the talk about 'win-win' even the textbooks actually cite, in plain English, all the dirty tricks that could tip 'win-win' into win-lose' in 'Negotiating for Idiots.' Their books that is. I touched on that a little on another article in which I looked at Eris, incidentally.

But I could not have any career at all in the Big Bad World without the 4th-House South Node skills in the first place. In fact, the whole aim is to get my students to be a little more South Node in that to be fluent in a language means having it so pat you need not even think about it, but they never will, not having been born into my culture and my native-proficiency.

It means nothing to me, skills like that, automatic in the way driving becomes automatic, difficult to value because it is not something that requires much effort except in explaining it - but maybe, a lot more to them, if it can be transmitted. And through this I did get to see a bit more of that Big Bad World, so there you are.

Nexus, thank you very much for that indepth article. I also have trouble using the Nodes as there are so many different opinions floating around, but after reading your article and some of the links (still have to absorb the rest) things are more or less cristallizing in my head. The idea of the absorbing and excreting is of course a very good example. I also agree that what we excreed with that South Node is in fact very fertile. I just got another idea, similar to this. I see the taking in of whatever it is we are taking in (seen by the house and sign of the NN) will be digested, worked out, thought over (in the bowels of the dragon) and finally compiled into a useful new idea, phylosofie, approach etc. and when it finally "comes out" at the other end, we can then use that the outcome for the benefit of the house the SN is positioned in and in a way the sign shows us (like in an Arian sort of way, a nurturing Cancer way, an filosophical Saggitarian way etc. and SN in the 4th, apply it to family, in the 5th, use it to help your children etc.

I have a South Node at 2°32 Gemini (which seems to be the exaltation degree placement for the Node, actually 3°) and SN in Saggittarius at a 7° orb from my Ascendant. They make a sextile/trine to my Saturn in the 9th at 2°.51 Leo and also trining/sextiling my Neptune in the 11th.(Neptune rules 5th house of selfexpression).

In my experience, everything I have learned through my relationships with others, marital or non-marital, I have collected and digested and formed an opinion about and now, I am able to give out this knowledge to the outside world by talking about it (Saturn rules my 3rd house) as well as using it in counseling in astrology. Maybe a bit simplistic, but I like keeping things uncluttered and simple. It has taken me a long time however, maybe shown by the ruler of the NN, Mercury, square that same Saturn (exact also, 2°.24').

Starlink

Lilly, I looked at my family's Nodes for you.

My ex husband, NN at 4° Virgo, square my NN at 2° Gemini and exactly sextile my Chiron in my 12th, also at 4° but in Scorpio.

New partner NN at 5°Cancer, no aspects there. The semi-sextiles to my NN and Saturn are too wide.

My daughter NN 0°Aquarius, trine (out of sign) my NN at 2°, square my Mercury at 2° and opposed to my Saturn at 2°. We are incredibly close so I think the NN to NN aspects have a stronger inpact when it comes to relationships. Dont really know how to interprete the other aspects.

My son, NN 10° Saggittarius, widely conj. my South Node, trine my Pluto, Asc.ruler and my Venus. We are also very close especially when talking about philosophical topics.

My Daughter in-law has NN at 25° Capricorn and that one does exctly sextile my Asc. Strangely enough I dont have a close relationship with her at all, it is more of a neutral quality.

Not much to go by in my case, not even the positions of their Nodes in my houses?
Ex husbands Node in my 10th
Partner NN in my 8th
Daughter's NN in my 3rd
Son's NN in my 1st.
Daughter i-L NN in my 3rd

It is amazing though how many conjunctions you seem to have with significant others in your life

Star, is it your north node in Gemini in the 1st? you say south but then later mention the ruler as merc

reading your post, i realised my south node is in an exact trine with saturn in my 9th! i have never thought about that before (i am relatively new to this of course but i think i've spent far more time looking at the charts of others than my own! hmmm, wonder where *that* shows up in my chart?! )

my NN is 7d from my descendant, in pisces in the 7th ... i usually use a 5d max but can't help wondering about this

as for charts of sig others, my 2nd daughter's NN is conjunct my natal uranus/moon conj in libra (opposition my natal chiron ... weeee)
my son's MC loosely conjs my NN and his venus is conj my SN
and my oldest daughter's saturn is conj my NN
their father's NN is conj my saturn (and i notice a few things in his chart that relate to the kids' nodes! whoa)

now you guys have got me looking at everyone! my own mom's mars is conj my NN ... hmmm and my dad's pisces sun exactly conj my NN

soooo much to learn! but so exciting!

Nexus, I have "the astrologers Node book" written by Donna van Toen and I do like the way she describes the Nodes as in a dialoge with ourselves.
Example:
Capricorn North Node: You should take steps towards a career (or honors or increased self-esteem)
Cancer South Node: Yeah, but what would my family do without me?

Problem: you have adopted real or imagined resposibilities to others that are keeping you from becoming al that you can become.
Possible Reasons: Fear of public exposure, Lack of planning. A feeling that you are unworthy in some ways. Refusal to let others lead their own lives.
Some typical manifestations of an over-developed Cancer south node are:
1. An overall lack of success in life
2. Hypersensitivity and slopy sentimentality
3. Fear of authority figures
4. Childishness
5. Lack of emotional self-control
6. Snobbishness alternating with blind acceptance of others
7. self-pity
8. excessive complaining
9. A craving for emotional attention.

She writes also that a Cancer South Node gets easily bogged down in dependency on those who need him or her until personal discontent forces development of Capricorn's North Node Potential.

Quite a entertaining little book which does give insight in behavior patterns I must say.
Like this we can create our own inner dialoge of seeing what we could do in our lives and why , if it did not happen, we have resisted or are still resisting it.

it clearly took me forever to write that as i was replying to your 9:42 post and now see something came in at 10:15 which clearly mentions your gemini NN Starlink ... so please ignore me!

Starlink

The dialogues you mention in your Van Toen book sound similar to how Tracy Marks describes the (less well-adapted) way the nodes can operate - what she calls 'yes, but' rationalisations.

The idea that the South Node means things necessary to our survival. (or perceived that way) and hence somewhat clung to, could make sense in this light. That is why it is supposed to be linked to survival fears, much in the way Saturn is.

I would still like to see more stories about how people here actually do experience their nodes.

That is an extraordinary list by Donna van Toen. Such an array of diagnostic symptoms etc, for the Capricorn North Node.

I prefer that people fill in the nodal gaps themselves, that is with the help of how the nodes work and some of the basic structure in Nodal soul - work. To make statements about the Node in such a pointed way leaves other potential areas undiscovered. Oh well, node to worry.

When the south node hit my ascendant I nearly got killed in a car accident.
My natal node is in Scorpio. I am always transforming or making transitions however the South Node slightly in the 12th (Taurus) needs lots of space and time to make change in my life. My transitions Node in Scorpio also means that Mars is in my first house. Sometimes the transitions involve challenging circumstances around relationships. Mars and Mercury are in mutual reception so I have enough mentalization or processing abilities to get over some of the hurdles that would have otherwise turned out different.

My Venus and ruler of the South Node is combust in the sun. That points to how my own sense of importance "can be always" (thats the scripting of the south node) overshadowed by another in my life. If I wish, I may return to the type of thinking where I consider myself less than. Otherwise I utilize Mars in the 1st and make proactive choices towards belonging - integrating etc.

Establishing what ones scripting in life is all about takes some time and perhaps Donna van Toen's list of 9 points may give some ideas. To get a truly good understanding of ones scripting requires going over behavioural and cognitive patterning etc, and arriving at "can always end up like" The outcome of the script and all the variables that tend to keep that script (south node) going.

kingsley

Hi Kingsly and Nexus (giving you a few pointers in the process)

Kingsly you wrote:

That is an extraordinary list by Donna van Toen. Such an array of diagnostic symptoms etc, for the Capricorn North Node.

I prefer that people fill in the nodal gaps themselves

Click to expand...

Yes, I think so too. I compared her list for Sagittarius South node with my own experiences:

1.A tendency to flirt, flatter and charm but reveal nothing
True, (but this is also because of Venus in Aries in 5 and Moon in Scorp.in12)
2.An expectation that others will hinder his or her freedom
I feel sometimes as if I cannot escape from lives duties, yes.
3. A tendency to ridicule others
Wonder where she gets this idea from. Are Saggies like that? I never ridicule.
4. Generally on his or her way somewhere "only has a minute"
Yes, sometimes but really not a general thing
5. First instinct is to take off when pressured
Very much so. Dont like to be pressured ever! Turns me into a very unpleasant person.LOL!!
6. A tendency to promise more than he or she can deliver
Not true at all, I could not even if I wanted to
7. A distrust of security and routine
Great distrust of routine, not at all of security (I am a Taurus after all)
8. Being thought of as unreliable whilst he or she thinks it is others who are unreliable
No way!! People are surprised when I am a minute late!! I hate it to let people wait and you can always rely on me with anything.
9. Enormous faith in the published word
Dont believe everything, but I do admire anyone who can write well.
10. Uncomfortable with peers in general.
Yes, I have trivial communication with my brothers and sisters and indeed dont feel great with them. Uncomfortable is a bit of an overstatement though.

This rings true for me as well: Gemini NN : You need to share your awareness with others.
Sagittarius South Node: Yeah, but I dont want to stick around explaining things. I cant learn anything that way.
I must say that I do feel like that sometimes but most of the time I do like to explain and share. It is a bit of both really. Normal I would say.

I find her observations quite to the point, apart from a few. I think we could recognize quite a few tendencies here.

I know someone who also has a Taurus sun sign, loads of earth besides - but is neverthelss very evasie and hartes being pinned down- but there is that Gemini NNode.

Sometimes he does like talking heavily intense philsophical discussions that would put Rober Pirsig of shame (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance).

I can't believe all that is down to the nodes though, unless he has Gemini rising too.

OK, we could all go through checklists. But how about taking a different route - how do you actually experience and feel this axis? Do you genuinely feel unfufiiled and 'stuck' at the South Node, but untried (or greedy for new things) at the North Node?

Remember, you learnt with a class full of other kids all over the world, who also have this axis. Along with a Jupiter sign in common to that one year, more or less, which is an interesting thought.

Oh, and who has seen the reports of an adolescent boy in the Far East, who is being mooted as the new Gautama? He cannot have accrued the wisdom to do the feats he does from one childhood alone, and to meditate continuously without food.

Here is a spiritual prodigy, where Mozart was a musical one. Alas, all I know is that he could be a Full Moon child, full Moon being in Libra.

I wonder how he will develop wih life experience, or whether or not here is another case of a SNode jackpot of spiriual wisdom and gifts, to run out before there is any chance, or need, to mature?

My nodes are about 6 degrees from the ascendant desc axis. If the NN was taken as being in the sixth, I can understand that my life would benefit from integrating a more practical direction however I have Neptune in the sixth too.

When doing readings for insights into "soul purpose", the higher selfs own motivation to experience and evolve the being, then the nodes should be read in the context of how the person establishes their beliefs. The 9th house and religiosity including the persons capacity to form attitudes to "experience", to have philosophies on various aspects of life. I am not sure that the nodes can be read in such a pragmatic-symptomatic way. It would be good if they could. It would be wonderful if the Nodal descriptions could be tamed into nine tangible categories, guilt edged and absolute in their meanings. I love a good 'planetary combination' description so why not the nodes?

Human nature perhaps is the key for my thoughts here. There are some people more capable than others when it comes to digesting and processing self awareness factors from lists like Van Toen's. The nodes to tend to be more nebulus and contain the vast concept of personality scripting. The very nature of the south node involves unconscious process's. Unfortunately the nodal descriptions through the signs as much as they may help to identify pshychological patterns need to also refer to house positions. As I said above the person needs to tap into their 9th house awareness too. The astrologer can identify how the persons works to involve their experiences into existential thinking. To be able to look outside of self with a specific view point to life. Then there are the ruling planets for the nodes and their positions and aspects to be woven into the scheme of things.

kingsley

I've been told that the Northern Node behaves like Rahu in Vedic astrology and is quite malefic.

....and polo?

k